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post #201 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You really should look things up before saying what you think the meaning is. It's easy enough.

Based on your response, you didnt get the meaning of dispassionate. The link in the article was to show that people werent impressed by the OS and the phones. It was equating dispassionate with lack of enthusiasm and negative response. The real meaning of dispassionate makes no sense in the context of the quote, unless the author was trying to say that the original reviews were objective and free from bias (in which case, why bother to say it at all?). Instead he was rather obviously trying to show that the initial reviews were negative or unimpressed, a very different proposition.

If you read and think about what you quoted, youll find that what I said was actually right. I know what the word means. A dispassionate review is one that objectively considers the issue and provides a conclusion based on the facts. A dispassionate review of the iPhone would list both its strong and its weak points and try to find an unbiased conclusion (which could be that it is the best phone on the planet right now). If anything, it is the opposite of fanboy boosterism.

I find it funny that you looked the word up in the dictionary to confirm what I already knew it meant and, if youd actually thought about it for a few minutes, you would have realized that...
post #202 of 289
Never mind on this. It was redundant.
post #203 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post

No one was disputing that Apple had some bumps in the road along the way, but there is and always has been good sales analytics and timely payments on Apple's part regarding their devs. Plus, there's also, you know, a viable market for said developers, unlike literally everything Microsoft has thrown out in the mobile space over the past 3 years.

Plus, what "vaporware" has Apple announced and not delivered? And no, simply a different color of an identical product that is out already and is uber-popular does not count.

Pippin
post #204 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post


MS chose the easiest path: throw away everything they have done before, then start from scratch. Because the old OS was simply not worth updating with modern features. If MS (and Palm, by the way) had looked far enough ahead, they could have evolved their legacy OSes or planned a migration path from the old OS to the new OS. They could have beaten Apple to market with a multi-touch mobile OS.

Sounds like what Apple did back in Spring 2001 when they dumped OS9 and started fresh with OS X.
post #205 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

MS chose the easiest path: throw away everything they have done before, then start from scratch.

That is not even close to being the easiest path.
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post #206 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

How about video? What can you see on various sites?

Good question. Right now when I open videos it will show me what I have on the phone and it will show me the last YouTube videos I watched. Just as if they were loaded on the phone. I have not tried any other sites yet.
post #207 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

Pippin

Kind of the exception that proves the rule, don't you think?
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post #208 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

Sounds like what Apple did back in Spring 2001 when they dumped OS9 and started fresh with OS X.

Except that Apple did provide a migration path, and a very robust one at that.
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post #209 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

MS chose the easiest path: throw away everything they have done before, then start from scratch.

But... they didn't exactly do that, did they? I don't know for certain, but isn't WP7 based on WinCE 6

If it is truly a clean-sheet design - which would have been the right thing to do, though I disagree that's the "easiest path" - why imply it's version 7... of anything?
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post #210 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

Sounds like what Apple did back in Spring 2001 when they dumped OS9 and started fresh with OS X.

Not all... OS X supported running OS 9 apps under compatibility for years.

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post #211 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by john galt View Post

But... they didn't exactly do that, did they? I don't know for certain, but isn't WP7 based on WinCE 6

Id say they did. If we dont call the creation of WP7 a new OS over WM6 that isnt compatible with any WM6 apps, then can we really call IOS a new OS over Mac OS X, since they use Darwin kernel.


Quote:
If it is truly a clean-sheet design - which would have been the right thing to do - why imply it's version 7... of anything?

Apple adopted NeXTSTEP for Mac OS and called it Mac OS Ten.
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post #212 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Apple adopted NeXTSTEP for Mac OS and called it Mac OS “Ten”.

I understand, but OS 9 wasn't OS IX. Besides, I originally thought it was pronounced "oh sex" and who woudn't want that?

The progression from the name "Windows Mobile" - essentially Wince 6, followed by Windows Phone 7 hardly strikes me as an inspirational marketing idea.

It may be symbolic in nature, but Apple's progression from the numbered Classic OS versions to X to what I believe will just become known as iOS demonstrates their willingness to change and adapt. Symbolic or not, MSFT is demonstrating anything but.
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post #213 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by john galt View Post

Sort of... I mean, OS 9 wasn't OS IX. Besides, I originally thought it was pronounced "oh sex" and who woudn't want that?

I get your point, though "Windows Mobile" - essentially Wince 6, followed by Windows Phone 7 hardly strikes me as an inspirational marketing idea.

that’s just a representation of the word ’10’, it’s still listed as number 10. Just look at version and build numbers. The ‘X’ is really just marketing. It does denote a change, but X also makes it sound cool.
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post #214 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by john galt View Post

I understand, but OS 9 wasn't OS IX. Besides, I originally thought it was pronounced "oh sex" and who woudn't want that?

Apologies in advance!

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post #215 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

Pippin

Seriously? A crazy venture from 15 years ago is your example? Further, it wasn't even vaporware - it was actually manufactured but was an abject failure of Kin proportions.
post #216 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

thats just a representation of the word 10, its still listed as number 10. Just look at version and build numbers. The X is really just marketing. It does denote a change, but X also makes it sound cool.

I agree the name is primarily a marketing tool. If you really want to split hairs though, its releases are named OS X v10.x and so forth. For example Cheetah was OS X 10.0. Presumably version ten of OS X would be known as OS X v10.10, except I think they'll have run out of cats. In any event the X moniker would be sufficiently tired by then, while Microsoft will be marketing, what, Windows 12

Was there an equivalent version and build number for OS X Public Beta...? Considering it was preceded by OS X Server 1.0...?
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post #217 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by fenevad View Post

Reviews of new WP7 devices have also been

dispassionate Not to get picky or anything, but this word you are using, I do not think it means what you think it means

A dispassionate review could be extremely positive or extremely negative (or neither)

Dispassionate is the word he meant, I'll bet. It means without passion, therefore not extremely anything.
post #218 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

I have to call BS on that. You're talking about features that took Apple 3 years to implement... and they control the hardware as well as software.

The impression I get is that Microsoft are throwing a lot of man hours at WP7, and from that they have an accelerated development cycle compared to other Microsoft products... but all of those features in just a few months of development... I just don't think it's possible. Certainly not when they need to test across multiple devices.

I think they will do Copy+Paste early next year (Jan/Feb) then stick to their 12 month release cycles.

Yeah, there was a story on Wired about WP7's development. They basically scrapped the entire design team and started fresh. It was the right thing to do. But yes, this is just the beginning for Microsoft. I expect them to keep releasing new features until they catch up with Android.

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post #219 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Their "do more with less clicks" sales pitch is an appealing one.

Yeah, I'll bet it really appeals to the grammar police! "do more with fewer clicks" would be the way to say it. But then no one ever accused MS of being intellectual...
post #220 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

[Nicholas] Yu described this problem to be significant enough to hold up his investment in adding requested features such as push notifications. "Currently I have no idea how many copies of GoVoice are sold nor did I receive a single paycheck," Yu wrote in his development blog. "Implementing Push is a very risky thing for me because I need to justify that the expenses will cover the maintenance cost of a Push server. If Push is implemented, the expenses are coming straight out of my paycheck, and that is very sensitive to me."

Going to Yu's blog linked above shows another link wherein he denies everything Dan attributed to him, and casts aspersions on Dan's reporting.

I just wonder about how one developer's tale of woe compares to the many other unheard voices.

Just like there are always people who will buy Pontiac Azteks, there are always people who will buy MS.

PS to "bettieblue": Please learn how to quote from other posts. Simply pressing the "reply" button to bring up a quote of the entire post to which you're quoting works fine. You don't need to then put a phrase from the quote between a pair of quotation marks, essentially repeating your earlier quote. It's not needed. If you wish to split an earlier post into several discrete quoted passages, there's an easy way of doing that by adding your own HTML. This is a serious suggestion and not meant as flame bait.
post #221 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Yeah, there was a story on Wired about WP7's development. They basically scrapped the entire design team and started fresh. It was the right thing to do. But yes, this is just the beginning for Microsoft. I expect them to keep releasing new features until they catch up with Android.

OTOH Microsoft, by all reports, has a fairly Byzantine internal development structure that may hamper roll-out of features. After all, before you can release the feature you have to agree what it should be, how it should work, what else it needs to work with, etc.

There have been recent changes at the top, with the loss of key Entertainment and Devices personnel. Who's running the Phone program? Do they have a free hand to innovate? Can anyone in the Windows division slow or stop any particular functionality? Are the Xbox, Zune and phone people all on the same page now? Are they the same people?

For instance, phone/tablet synergies are likely to be a strategic advantage for iOS/Android. Can the phone people make a WP7 tablet? More importantly, will they be allowed to, given Microsoft's Windows-centric biases?

These are problems unique to MS-- having to juggle legacy technologies and processes, not just in released products, but in the entire product development process. There's nothing comparable to those kind of roadblocks at Apple, which is why the entire product matrix always proceeds with a reasonable amount of integration and interoperability. I think the jury is out on whether or not MS can do that, and I think when it comes to handheld mobile not being able to do that is a pretty big liability.
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post #222 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Droo View Post

Dispassionate is the word he meant, I'll bet. It means without passion, therefore not extremely anything.

Thanks for playing, but not quite right. Others were kind enough to quote the dictionary without understanding it, so you can go look it up too. Dispassionate is not just lacking passion, but refers to the ability to appraise something without biasing passion. As I've mentioned before, dispassionate can be extremely positive, extremely negative, extremely neither. As long as a review is grounded in fact, rather than enthusiasm (positive or negative), it is dispassionate. If I said that a UI was smooth, responsive, and intuitive for most users, that could be a dispassionate observation, even though it is also rather positive.

The point is that the judgment is not swayed by one's passion. He used dispassionate to say how underwhelmed the reviewers were, not how free from biasing passion they were...
post #223 of 289
Just to throw in my two cents, it's similar to the difference between "disinterested" and "uninterested", meaning "impartial" and "not having any interest", respectively.

Presumably the intended meaning was something like "unpassionate", although that, unfortunately, is not actually a word.
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post #224 of 289
I really enjoyed reading this article. Thanks AppleInsider. You have truly made my evening.
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post #225 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

Apple fans should actually want WP7 to succeed as it caps how quickly Android can grow. It provides a second option for companies like HTC to use, effectively splitting the market currently owned by Android phones.

It's difficult for Apple as a single manufacturer to ship a majority of phone in a market as large as the smartphone market. If Android is the only OS that third party manufacturers use, its market share will get quite large.

Now I don't consider a marketshare to a big deal unless it impacts your developer support, but I grow tired of Android fanboys spouting numbers like they are the most important thing in the world. Somehow they believe that it's a great accomplishment that a free OS that is installed on many manufacturers phones can collectively outsell one phone model manufactured by a single company. Great accomplishment or not, it would be great to see them served some humble pie. Having WP7 weaken manufacturer and as a result, consumer support of Android would do just that.

In terms of "winning" marketshare, the more players the better for Apple as it becomes more difficult for any one platform to become dominant and easier for a single manufacturer like Apple to claim the largest piece of the pie. If there are two players, they need greater than 50%, if there are three players, they need greater than 33% (assuming the other two are equal to each other), if there are four players, they only need 25%, etc. At the end of the day though, OS marketshare means very little and everyone puts too much stock in it. OSX does just fine at sub 10% numbers.

We already know the OS scenario. There is main stream, Apple and open source. It has been and it will be. For a bunch of very important reasons such as compatibility, familiarity, ease of application development for a single(or two) platform and the list goes on and on. Simply there are things that meant to be a monopoly such as OS.

Now with smartphones the main stream is open source with Android. I predict Android to dominate the market with apple dominating its own Apple segment of the market (who else?=) ).

Possibly Nokia with MeGo will be on par with Apple dominating its own segment with Apple like hardware&software in house. It certainly has no chance of holding onto the current Symbian market share. It will eventually have to go with adopting Android or Limiting its smartphone hardware choice significantly to only a few very high class MeGo phones with one for every price point.

Also some sort of ubuntu mobile flavour is possible. Developed by hardcore linux users for hardcore linux lovers.
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post #226 of 289
Quote:
Possibly some ubuntu mobile os in the future developed by hard core linux users for hard core linux users.

That would be awesome! But I take issue with the notion that Ubuntu is for 'hard core' linux users.
post #227 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Just to throw in my two cents, it's similar to the difference between "disinterested" and "uninterested", meaning "impartial" and "not having any interest", respectively.

Presumably the intended meaning was something like "unpassionate", although that, unfortunately, is not actually a word.

I think a couple alternatives would have been more to the point: lukewarm or tepid.
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post #228 of 289
"That would be awesome! But I take issue with the notion that Ubuntu is for 'hard core' linux users."


It may be on smartphone or at least i believe running command line on one is way beyond hardcore.
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post #229 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Just to throw in my two cents, it's similar to the difference between "disinterested" and "uninterested", meaning "impartial" and "not having any interest", respectively.

Presumably the intended meaning was something like "unpassionate", although that, unfortunately, is not actually a word.

The best bet for the meaning intended in the article would be unenthusiastic, which fits the context quite well. But it is certain he didn't mean to say that the reviewers were unbiased, objective, or unswayed by emotion.

Disinterested actually is a pretty good synonym for dispassionate and may help those who just dont understand the meaning of the word to get it. But now I'll get someone who doesnt understand the word telling me to look up disinterested in the dictionary
post #230 of 289
looking at today's Nielsen survey, between 5% and 7% of those surveyed plan or desire to buy a new Windows phone (i guessed 5% below). which pretty much tells what's going to happen to it: MS' new "hobby."
post #231 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

looking at today's Nielsen survey, between 5% and 7% of those surveyed plan or desire to buy a new Windows phone (i guessed 5% below). which pretty much tells what's going to happen to it: MS' new "hobby."

Congrats for drawing conclusions based upon a two month old survey. One which was taken before the phone was even released. Why dont you do the same thing; find a survey which showed the interest for the iPhone 2 months before the first version was released?
post #232 of 289
Since the second developer pretty much retracted his story (or was heavily miss quoted by the Apple FUD machine), please change the title to "Windows Phone 7 developer fear platform flop".

That's one out of 15,000. Thats some pretty impressive stats.
post #233 of 289
Quote:
Windows 7 Phone launched a 500 million U.S. dollar advertising campaign last month to sell carpets are estimated at tens of thousands. In the UK, has opened a launch event for the Orange line only two people. heads of damage control later suggested that Orange had "sold" WP7 statement without suggesting how many units actually involved.

How is the US ad campaign related to sales in the UK? Not sure I understand the context.
post #234 of 289
.

Today, Microsoft announced a new promotion for the holiday season:

BYKGYWP (pronounced BuggyWhip), the Acronym Stands for:

Buy Your Kinect, Get Your Windows Phone7

.
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post #235 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by john galt View Post

If it is truly a clean-sheet design - which would have been the right thing to do, though I disagree that's the "easiest path" - why imply it's version 7... of anything?

Because it sells better than calling it Windows Phone Vista

Because Microsoft Corporate are sleazy marketeers who think that by choosing such a name it will benefit from largely positive reviews of Windows 7 by some sort of Halo effect. Thus Zune was chosen as a name during the period that Microsoft had Windows Vista as its flagship.
post #236 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by twospoons View Post

Congrats for drawing conclusions based upon a two month old survey. One which was taken before the phone was even released. Why dont you do the same thing; find a survey which showed the interest for the iPhone 2 months before the first version was released?

that's a fair point. maybe MS' reported $400 million WP7 marketing program will push that share up. if they sell 10 million like Apple did in iPhone year 1, that would amount to $40 per WP7 phone of advertising. Ifixit always leaves advertising out of its product cost analyses.
post #237 of 289
When MS released WP7, their employees held a funeral themed party with iPhone and Blackberry signs!

First thing I thought was, don't get ahead of yourselves guys because this WP7 will end up in the grave faster than Windows Mobile did.

I was right.
post #238 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by lav1daloca View Post

When MS released WP7, their employees held a funeral themed party with iPhone and Blackberry signs!

First thing I thought was, don't get ahead of yourselves guys because this WP7 will end up in the grave faster than Windows Mobile did.

I was right.

So you think Microsoft will get a decade of reasonable market share before they have to rewrite WP7 and start fresh?

That's actually pretty good.
post #239 of 289
It strikes me as highly unlikely that MS would abandon WP7 anytime in the next couple years. That means it should have time to mature and the time to catch up to Android and iOS feature wise isn't going to be all that long. Probably 6 months or so.

One key device enhancement I see in 2011 is a hardware spec for WP7 gaming phones with DPad to compete with the PSP phone. The PSP phone is probably the only Android phone I would consider buying at this point.

I'm still hoping that Apple provides a common d-pad spec for iOS and native API access but I'm not holding my breath on that one.
post #240 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuristic View Post

I think a couple alternatives would have been more to the point: lukewarm or tepid.

Yes, but they wouldn't have sounded half as clever. This is a case of using a twenty-five cent word when a ten cent word would have provided more clarity and better sense. Probably anyone who writes a great deal understands this trap all too well, if only from being thumped by an editor for using fancy vocabulary that distracts from, or just doesn't fit the intended meaning. Sadly, editing is nearly a thing of the past, especially online.
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