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Windows Phone 7 developers fear platform flop - Page 2

post #41 of 289
11/29/10 at 2:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iansilv View Post

I disagree with this. I recently went down to the microsoft store in Mission Viejo and checked out these phones. They are decent, and would be awesome if the iphone never existed. But I want them to fly off the shelves simply because it makes Apple sit up and take notice. It forces Apple to adjust their game plan, bring out a better iphone more quickly, etc... Same thing with Android. I want Android to succeed in a huge way- so Apple has something to compete with! The greatest thing for consumers right now would be for Android and WP7 to actually take marketshare away from the iPhone, so at least we can get the iPhone on multiple carriers.

But yeah- the phones are nothing amazing. They do the job... that's about it. The advertising program is lame, the ads do not focus on the phone's features like Apple's iphone ads do... not sure how they screwed that up too...

All in all, I won't buy the iPhone 4 because it is on ATT, so I will hold on to my 3gs until I can get another carrier.

"the ads do not focus on the phone's features like Apple's iphone ads do"

Good thing you did not say "Mac ads" because I have never gleaned a iota of information from them on why a Mac is better or what it can do other than sit on the palm of someones hand.
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post #42 of 289
11/29/10 at 2:31pm
I actually went to an ATT store for a different reason and toyed with a Windows 7 phone. I didn't think it was that bad actually. It was more fluid than I thought it would be for a 1.0 device. At least MS did try to bring something brand new UI-wise to the market, unlike BB.

Unfortunately, MS isn't good enough to compete anymore with the big boys.
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post #43 of 289
11/29/10 at 2:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Don't bother to continue insulting people, either specifically, or in general. You can say what you want without doing that.

But talking to people without insulting is not good Troll etiquette. So don't count on that happening.
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post #44 of 289
11/29/10 at 2:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post


Seriously if it cant break 5000 apps after 6 months then there is a problem, like say WebOS.

If it can't break 5,000 apps in 2 months, there will be a problem. It's too late to take a year before having a serious number of apps out there, which today would mean 50,000, at least.

By that time, the phone would be on a short slide to oblivion.
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post #45 of 289
11/29/10 at 2:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Don't bother to continue insulting people, either specifically, or in general. You can say what you want without doing that.

Right now, it's MS and its partners who are doing the BS. Making statements about selling out of product without stating actual sales numbers is exactly what Palm and Sprint did with the introduction of the Pre. They gleefully stated that they were sold out in several locations, then most locations, then all locations. They promised that more product would be coming as soon as they could catch up in production. But it turned out that they only sold 50,000 units in the first week.

MS is duplicating that method. We have no idea how many phones have been sold, because they refuse to say. When companies hide their data, its because it isn't good. If developers are not getting their data, or payments, you can bet it's for the same reason.

You should be complaining about MS's tactics instead of complaining about the info AI is getting. This isn't the only site writing articles like this, and most of them are not Apple oriented sites.

Do you have any data to report or just rumors? How about iPad sales, do you have them? Apple Desktop sales? How about Air sales, Apple TV sales? All of that is APPLE STUFF that I would think I would see at Apple Insider.

Apple must have something to hide.
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post #46 of 289
11/29/10 at 2:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

I have never gleaned a iota of information from them on why a Mac is better or what it can do other than sit on the palm of someones hand.

It's a matter of brain mass vs neural connections. It's the second that matters.
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post #47 of 289
11/29/10 at 2:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStud View Post

It's a matter of brain mass vs neural connections. It's the second that matters.

I see and that is how you picked your user name..... iStud
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post #48 of 289
11/29/10 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

I never said anything about Windows 7 sales. However AI did, and now you are as well. Both of you need to prove it.

The article did use info from others to show the points they made. You're acting as though (to paraphrase Rick, in Casablanca) this is the only article in the only web site that has written about this. It isn't.

Until MS decides to grace us with numbers of sales, we're stuck with people reporting on what they see and read. They did the same thing with the Zune. No sales numbers, no estimates. Was that because it did so well? Not exactly.
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post #49 of 289
11/29/10 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

I am not sure I see your point.

Android took 6 months to sell its first million units, and I am willing to bet that articles were written, or could have been written, stating that the iPhone was outselling Android 10-20 or 30 to 1 a month after Android was released, and look where things stand now.

This is not to say that WP7 will be a success, but there are no real sales numbers available (one estimate from an anonymous source from an unnamed market research firm does not really count), which is MS's fault, but no one really knows what is happening.

2 developers griping does not spell doom for WP7, any more than a couple of iOS developers leaving because of problems with the iOS approval process.

Did I say anything about doom?

Read the first line of the article:

"Despite a reportedly healthy level of interest from developers, Microsoft's Windows Phone 7 debut appears to have flopped with consumers, leaving developers cautious about investing in the platform."

In other words... Developers are interested, consumers not so much. We're not talking about the future... we're talking about right now. True... it may catch on with consumers but right now it seems to be quite weak in sales.

Do you really believe that MS would sit back and say nothing if there had been a million WP7 phones sold in 28 days?

As I said... find me contrary evidence to the weak sales argument and I'll be glad to concede that MS is doing well with WP7.
We know where you are. We know where youve been. We can more or less know what youre thinking about. - Eric Schmidt
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We know where you are. We know where youve been. We can more or less know what youre thinking about. - Eric Schmidt
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post #50 of 289
11/29/10 at 2:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iansilv View Post

I disagree with this. I recently went down to the microsoft store in Mission Viejo and checked out these phones. They are decent, and would be awesome if the iphone never existed. But I want them to fly off the shelves simply because it makes Apple sit up and take notice. It forces Apple to adjust their game plan, bring out a better iphone more quickly, etc... Same thing with Android. I want Android to succeed in a huge way- so Apple has something to compete with! The greatest thing for consumers right now would be for Android and WP7 to actually take marketshare away from the iPhone, so at least we can get the iPhone on multiple carriers.

But yeah- the phones are nothing amazing. They do the job... that's about it. The advertising program is lame, the ads do not focus on the phone's features like Apple's iphone ads do... not sure how they screwed that up too...

All in all, I won't buy the iPhone 4 because it is on ATT, so I will hold on to my 3gs until I can get another carrier.

That's not really an opposing view to what I was discussing. Yes, the more competition, the better the innovation (in theory), but I that's a separate topic.

PS: You're mistaken if you think Apple cares a whole lot about market share. They will naturally want to expand to more carriers because more carriers mean more sales, which is what they care about. Apple doesn't really care about how many Android phones are being sold, they care about how many iPhones they are selling. In a growing market, market share isn't a big deal. You can lose marketshare and still have significant sales growth, especially if the marketshare you are losing is in the low margin area of the market.
The key to enjoying these forums: User CP -> Edit Ignore List
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The key to enjoying these forums: User CP -> Edit Ignore List
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post #51 of 289
11/29/10 at 2:42pm
I do not want to see Apple lose market share to Android because it wouldn't' be deserved. Android is not innovative. It essentially is an iOS knockoff. Just look to what Android mock ups looked like at the time the iPhone came out, and when Android was finally released. Android's success relies totally on 1) there not being very many good options for hardware maker, and 2) timing. Google is extremely lucky Apple had to sell it's soul to get a carrier to support the iPhone. Google wouldn't have been nowhere near as lucky if Apple hadn't had the success it had with the iPhone and Apple wasn't tied to AT&T

I for one think Microsoft's Windows 7 rebuild is more innovative then Android. The live updated GUI is quite neat. Further, Microsoft is able to do some good things with X-Box live and Windows 7. Problem is Microsoft is late to the game and those innovative features aren't nearly as exciting when it is playing catch up on other features that are standard on Android and iOs like copy and paste. I'd rather see Microsoft take some sales from Android, at least it really did do some thinking putting it's OS together.

Further, it will be interesting to see what HP will do with Palm. Palm also has a more innovative OS then Android.

PS: My iPhones are happily running contract free on T-Mobile (both my 3Gs and my iPhone 4). The 3GS was easy to do. For most people, however, it isn't practical to do it with a iPhone 4 because of the cost of acquiring one contract free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iansilv View Post

I disagree with this. I recently went down to the microsoft store in Mission Viejo and checked out these phones. They are decent, and would be awesome if the iphone never existed. But I want them to fly off the shelves simply because it makes Apple sit up and take notice. It forces Apple to adjust their game plan, bring out a better iphone more quickly, etc... Same thing with Android. I want Android to succeed in a huge way- so Apple has something to compete with! The greatest thing for consumers right now would be for Android and WP7 to actually take marketshare away from the iPhone, so at least we can get the iPhone on multiple carriers.

But yeah- the phones are nothing amazing. They do the job... that's about it. The advertising program is lame, the ads do not focus on the phone's features like Apple's iphone ads do... not sure how they screwed that up too...

All in all, I won't buy the iPhone 4 because it is on ATT, so I will hold on to my 3gs until I can get another carrier.
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post #52 of 289
11/29/10 at 2:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

Hmm most reviews I have read like the OS and the devices. Even Walt, iFan, Mossberg liked it.

Good thing a not a single one of these developers for the iPhone has ever had a problem with Apple, its wide open developers rules and the super quick and easy app approval process

Apple Insider should stick to predicting future vapor Apple Hardware releases and quoting Jon Gruber.

Problem is Microsoft isn't just competing against iPhone, but also against BBerry & Android. Sorry, but in the mobile market they sat on their thumbs for way too long & now they are to far behind to catch up.

Microsoft is still trying to play the finger in every market game, problem is they only make decent products in about half the markets they are in but they pull money from their successful products to try & force success in markets where they suck. So they effectively cripple products that could be great & let them settle at just good. They also try to tie all their products together so that good products end up with bad features just because they wanted to promote one of their bad products. Microsoft is a mess & they badly need a company shake up.
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post #53 of 289
11/29/10 at 2:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

Do you have any data to report or just rumors? How about iPad sales, do you have them? Apple Desktop sales? How about Air sales, Apple TV sales? All of that is APPLE STUFF that I would think I would see at Apple Insider.

Apple must have something to hide.

Ah, perhaps you could use the search tool.

Or maybe google it with the added constrain site:appleinsider.com

But why would you do that? You may actually find it!
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post #54 of 289
11/29/10 at 2:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

Even Microsoft's ads for WP7 are lame. "Our phones have no compelling features. You'll want to use them as little as possible."

If I were a mobile developer, I'd wait a year to see if WP7 phones have enough market share to make a difference. By next winter, if WP7 doesn't have at least 8% to 10% of the smartphone market, I would ignore it and just let it die. Or wait until Microsoft gets it right, which is very unlikely. (For reference, Apple had 24% and Android had 17% of the smartphone market in September 2010.)

Of course, Microsoft has not shown that they can "get it right" in the mobile space. If I had developed for WinCE aka PocketPC aka Windows Mobile, I would be extremely unhappy that Microsoft just suddenly killed off the platform. With no plans for WinMo app support in WP7.

MS chose the easiest path: throw away everything they have done before, then start from scratch. Because the old OS was simply not worth updating with modern features. If MS (and Palm, by the way) had looked far enough ahead, they could have evolved their legacy OSes or planned a migration path from the old OS to the new OS. They could have beaten Apple to market with a multi-touch mobile OS.

But no, MS and Palm simply milked their existing customer bases. They just kept hacking the old OS with new features instead of moving ahead to the next mobile computing paradigm. It's as if they were just waiting for Apple to do something so they could copy Apple's ideas.

So I would extend Microsoft's WP7 ads beyond end users. If I were interested in developing for WP7 I'd take a quick look at WP7's market share every year. Then ignore it until it either dies or starts to make a dent in iPhone's market share. Not interesting until that happens.

If those ads were Microsoft's bid to make inroads in the consumer market, that's exactly the wrong thing to say. The consumer market lives and dies by features. Smartphones have to do stuff. The BlackBerry was great for business in that it had a specific set of functions (email/text messaging) and it did those things extremely well. With that said, the browser on the old BlackBerry phones was terrible, but the enterprise market didn't care about that. But that's not how the consumer market works.

However, that tagline has potential for businesses. I bet that BlackBerry afficionados in the enterprise market have an aversion to the iPhone, and Android to a lesser extent because of all the features that those platforms provide. The iPhone and other consumer-oriented phones are seen as a threat to productivity. Also, people already use Microsoft products for other technology needs such as for document creation.
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post #55 of 289
11/29/10 at 2:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

Sorry but Android is a doomed OS, not a survivor. Oracle's lawsuit has merit, there is clear legal precedent (Microsoft paid Sun $20 million for a similar Java license violation) and Larry Ellison won't settle out of court.

It's not a patent violation, where one party can counter-sue to force an out-of-court settlement. It's a violation of the *license agreement* because Android's implementation of Java is not 100% compliant. And, according to the Java license agreement, if you are not 100% compliant, you are in violation. That quick and dirty Dalvik JVM hack has doomed Android.

This is one of the reasons why Oracle bought Sun. The dispute between Google and Sun was already in full swing, but they were trying to handle it privately. Oracle is a different beast and favors hardline tactics. For Oracle, this is an opportunity to squeeze enormous amounts of cash out of Google.

Sun wasn't big enough or bold enough to take a public run at Google, but Oracle is and they will.
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post #56 of 289
11/29/10 at 2:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluck View Post

However, it will exceed the sales of RIM platform hardware by the end of 2011 as RIM continues its slide of death. MS will continue to pour money into the platform until they get it to where they want.

-kpluck

I'll take a bet on that. Hell, you name the price and I'm in.
RIM is far from dead. They are still entrenched in the corporate business sector. It's possible their tablet will hit a home run. Apple hasn't made any big strides into this sector, Android is viewed as a security risk.
As far as the mobile space goes, RIM are light years ahead of Microsoft.
Business doesn't want fun fun fun devices in the hands of employee's. They want production.
Apple has the consumer market, RIM still has the business market.

WinMo 7 is the little train that couldn't
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post #57 of 289
11/29/10 at 2:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

I am not sure I see your point.

Android took 6 months to sell its first million units, and I am willing to bet that articles were written, or could have been written, stating that the iPhone was outselling Android 10-20 or 30 to 1 a month after Android was released, and look where things stand now.

This is not to say that WP7 will be a success, but there are no real sales numbers available (one estimate from an anonymous source from an unnamed market research firm does not really count), which is MS's fault, but no one really knows what is happening.

2 developers griping does not spell doom for WP7, any more than a couple of iOS developers leaving because of problems with the iOS approval process.

Talking about developers griping is missing the point about what they were saying. The point is that MS is holding back sales data as they are about the phone itself. In addition, for the same reasons, I would imagine, they are holding payments for several months.

We could speculate why this is happening, but I can't find a valid business reason for doing so other than keeping it quiet until enough sales are built up so that it looks decent, even though a long time would have been needed to get there.

Considering how many phones went on sale at once, I think that at least a couple of hundred thousand should have been sold in the first weekend, or at least in the first week, to be thinking that this wasn't bombing. If it's true that sales were in the low tens of thousands, then that would be very bad. With The Pre, it was one manufacturer, with WP7, it's four or five. How many phones does a manufacturer need to sell within a certain period of time to want to continue manufacturing?
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post #58 of 289
11/29/10 at 2:50pm
If I didn't hate google with a vengeance I would be glad to see ms fail. I don't want them to right now. But can they help it? It seems they can't.
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post #59 of 289
11/29/10 at 2:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post

No one was disputing that Apple had some bumps in the road along the way, but there is and always has been good sales analytics and timely payments on Apple's part regarding their devs. Plus, there's also, you know, a viable market for said developers, unlike literally everything Microsoft has thrown out in the mobile space over the past 3 years.

Plus, what "vaporware" has Apple announced and not delivered? And no, simply a different color of an identical product that is out already and is uber-popular does not count.

The payments and sales data sent anything surprising though. Its been on MS's site for months that the first payments will be in feburary, along with details on how you get stats on sales data. This articles basically quoted 2 people who didn't bother to read the process details when they signed up.

As for the reports of slow sales, they also sit next to reports of a lack of devices making them meaningless.
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post #60 of 289
11/29/10 at 2:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

Sorry but Android is a doomed OS, not a survivor. Oracle's lawsuit has merit, there is clear legal precedent (Microsoft paid Sun $20 million for a similar Java license violation) and Larry Ellison won't settle out of court.

It's not a patent violation, where one party can counter-sue to force an out-of-court settlement. It's a violation of the *license agreement* because Android's implementation of Java is not 100% compliant. And, according to the Java license agreement, if you are not 100% compliant, you are in violation. That quick and dirty Dalvik JVM hack has doomed Android.

Oops. This is a pro-Apple forum. No more mention of (doomed) Android, OK guys?

no, its a patent suit. the mobile version of java doesn't cover closed source so you would have to have a license agreement. but if android isn't closed then are they excluded?
it doesn't matter really, by the time it settles there will be meego or something else to take its place.
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post #61 of 289
11/29/10 at 2:55pm
I have no more respect for Daniel Erin Dilger commenting on Microsoft as I do of Paul Thurrott commenting about Apple. Having said that, Daniel has a pretty easy task. Take a look at what Paul said about WP7: http://windowsphonesecrets.com/2010/...windows-phone/

WP7 has a lot to do, just to get in the game. Microsoft's promise of Flash in Q1 2011 has been shortened to January by the fanbois, so Microsoft has their work cut out for them. Just remember what the iPhone had to offer day one. No Flash, no App Store, etc. It could happen (WP7 updates). Personally, I have more confidence in Apple's ability to put out a new release than I do Microsoft's.

The developers have a right to be nervous. Microsoft has claimed a million Kinects in the first month, but nothing on WP7 sales; other than to say there are component shortages, manufacturing problems and the like. That implication that developers are not being kept abreast of sales, and are not being paid is an obvious problem. Can an iPhone developer comment on the timeliness and quality of information they received?
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post #62 of 289
11/29/10 at 2:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNSF View Post

This is one of the reasons why Oracle bought Sun. The dispute between Google and Sun was already in full swing, but they were trying to handle it privately. Oracle is a different beast and favors hardline tactics. For Oracle, this is an opportunity to squeeze enormous amounts of cash out of Google.

Sun wasn't big enough or bold enough to take a public run at Google, but Oracle is and they will.

if oracle wins, they lose. in the long run. they already look like schmucks and people in a place to choose (like me) won't choose them anymore.
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post #63 of 289
11/29/10 at 3:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

Do you have any data to report or just rumors? How about iPad sales, do you have them? Apple Desktop sales? How about Air sales, Apple TV sales? All of that is APPLE STUFF that I would think I would see at Apple Insider.

Apple must have something to hide.

You apparently don't know that Apple released those numbers for the iPad. 3.3 million the first quarter, and 4.19 million the second quarter. They release desktop sales as well, though i Don't remember the numbers, something like 3.9 million the last quarter, I think. They also release laptop numbers, though not always breaking it down. ATv sales haven't been at the level Apple considers significant, so they've been calling it a hobby. Now, with the new one selling well, we'll see if they break it out.

As you know very well, Apple has always released iPod sales numbers, and iPhone sales numbers. MS releases numbers of sales for their other products, except notably for the Zune and so far for WP7, though they used to release license numbers for Win Mobile.

Being snarky doesn't make your argument any better, not does it make you look any smarter.
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post #64 of 289
11/29/10 at 3:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I don't like the snarky tone of your second sentence and the insults in the third, but I basically agree with your take on the OS itself.

I can't stand Microsoft, or any of their products, but I'm a bit mystified as to why it isn't catching on more. It's got brand recognition, and a really original interface that addresses the major shortcomings of the iOS interface (lack of integration and poor notifications).

I thought Windows Phone 7 was such a better proposition than Android, and so much more user friendly, that it would surely be a hit. Of course I also thought WebOS was clearly a better designed OS than Android, but that hasn't caught on either.

I see Android as a sort of "fill-in" OS or a default, or fall-back OS. It's what you use when there isn't anything else around. It's what you put on a junky free phone, etc. I was sure however, that we'd also see some real alternatives (like WebOS and Windows Phone 7), and I think it's bad news for everyone that neither seems to have taken off.

The problem with MS is that it is just not cool or a brand that people 'want' to own.
There is no demand for WP7 because there is no emotion.
Just being 'good' is not good enough nowadays.

People 'Want' iPhone they see them rightly or wrongly as THE device to own for a number of reasons - the success of the iPhone drives more demand, iTunes ecosystem and Apps, the iPad, the Mac and the press that Apple get. Those are all things that MS just don't have.
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post #65 of 289
11/29/10 at 3:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zindako View Post

Who is doomed now?

That would be a great sig line.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #66 of 289
11/29/10 at 3:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

Do you have any data to report or just rumors? How about iPad sales, do you have them? Apple Desktop sales? How about Air sales, Apple TV sales? All of that is APPLE STUFF that I would think I would see at Apple Insider.

Apple must have something to hide.

Do you not read these web sites?
The figures you requested are published by Apple all the time, they hide nothing.
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post #67 of 289
11/29/10 at 3:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

Apple must have something to hide.

Yes, our money. They have it all and don't know what to do with it.
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post #68 of 289
11/29/10 at 3:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

I'll take a bet on that. Hell, you name the price and I'm in.
RIM is far from dead. They are still entrenched in the corporate business sector. It's possible their tablet will hit a home run. Apple hasn't made any big strides into this sector, Android is viewed as a security risk.
As far as the mobile space goes, RIM are light years ahead of Microsoft.
Business doesn't want fun fun fun devices in the hands of employee's. They want production.
Apple has the consumer market, RIM still has the business market.

WinMo 7 is the little train that couldn't

RIM Is far from dead. But, they missed their own estimate for the past two quarters, and growth has slowed down significantly. Business and government have both decided, as determined by sales to those groups, that iOS security is good enough, which is the one area in which the BB stands out. People are also now worried about whether RIM will be giving in to governments on their strict security. Companies are wondering whether they should continue paying for the BB server system, or give it up.

They're moving to a new OS which may, or may not gain enough developers to matter.

They do have problems. The question is whether they can figure out a way around them.
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post #69 of 289
11/29/10 at 3:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fenevad View Post

Reviews of new WP7 devices have also been

dispassionate Not to get picky or anything, but this word you are using, I do not think it means what you think it means

A dispassionate review could be extremely positive or extremely negative (or neither)

I'm not quite sure that's right. See:

dis·pas·sion·ate (dis pas̸h′ə nət)

adjective
free from passion, emotion, or bias; calm; impartial

Related Forms:

* dispassion dis·pas′·sion noun
* dispassionately dis·pas′·sion·ately adverb

dis·pas·sion·ate (dĭs-păshˈə-nĭt)
adjective
Devoid of or unaffected by passion, emotion, or bias. See Synonyms at fair1.

Related Forms:

* dispassionately dis·pasˈsion·ate·ly adverb

* dis·pasˈsion·ate·ness noun
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post #70 of 289
11/29/10 at 3:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Just to be picky ...

you can't "ruffle some panties" you can only "ruffle some feathers" (like on a bird).

These are ruffled panties:
which probably isn't what you meant.

Certainly the most entertaining post so far.
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post #71 of 289
11/29/10 at 3:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

no, its a patent suit. the mobile version of java doesn't cover closed source so you would have to have a license agreement. but if android isn't closed then are they excluded?
it doesn't matter really, by the time it settles there will be meego or something else to take its place.

I doubt very much it will be Meego.

http://m.techeye.net/software/nokias-meego-is-doomed
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post #72 of 289
11/29/10 at 3:21pm
Not not, knot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

Tie them in a not?

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #73 of 289
11/29/10 at 3:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Business and government have both decided, as determined by sales to those groups, that iOS security is good enough, which is the one area in which the BB stands out.

Well, not all businesses, but enough of them for sure.

Another changing tide is what users are pulling out of their IT departments. In the past users were happy to get a blackberry because it was widely acknowledged to be the best power tool. Now, users are demanding more user friendly and relevant devices such as iPhones.

Purchasing power has moved away from the traditional IT procurement decision makers and over to the leaders and users who want innovation, ease of use and coolness.
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post #74 of 289
11/29/10 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You really should look things up before saying what you think the meaning is. It's easy enough.

I know you've been promoted to GM but you should really think before posting! Your description of dispassionate just proved him right!
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post #75 of 289
11/29/10 at 3:23pm
Developers! Developers! Developers!

Mac Pro 5,1: 12 x 2.93GHz / 64 GB / ATI 5870 / 1.5+2+2+2+3TB / ACD 30" + 20"
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Mac Pro 5,1: 12 x 2.93GHz / 64 GB / ATI 5870 / 1.5+2+2+2+3TB / ACD 30" + 20"
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post #76 of 289
11/29/10 at 3:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

My point? Is Apple Insider is just link baiting, and they are not using any real data to back up their BS. They should stick to Apple stuff. Bashing on Microsoft stuff does what exactly at a Apple site? Fire up the fan girls? Ruffle some panties?

And draw trolls like yourself to the flame.
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post #77 of 289
11/29/10 at 3:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garamond View Post

Developers! Developers! Developers!


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post #78 of 289
11/29/10 at 3:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fenevad View Post

Reviews of new WP7 devices have also been

dispassionate Not to get picky or anything, but this word you are using, I do not think it means what you think it means

A dispassionate review could be extremely positive or extremely negative (or neither)

I'm glad someone else said that. I'd expect ANY review to be dispassionate, if it was to have any credibility

Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others.
15" Matte MacBook Pro: 2.66Ghz i7, 8GB RAM, GT330m 512MB, 512GB SSD

iPhone 5 Black 32GB

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Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others.
15" Matte MacBook Pro: 2.66Ghz i7, 8GB RAM, GT330m 512MB, 512GB SSD

iPhone 5 Black 32GB

iPad 3rd Generation, 32GB

Mac Mini Core2Duo 2.26ghz,...

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post #79 of 289
11/29/10 at 3:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNSF View Post

Well, not all businesses, but enough of them for sure.

Another changing tide is what users are pulling out of their IT departments. In the past users were happy to get a blackberry because it was widely acknowledged to be the best power tool. Now, users are demanding more user friendly and relevant devices such as iPhones.

Purchasing power has moved away from the traditional IT procurement decision makers and over to the leaders and users who want innovation, ease of use and coolness.

What's interesting it that in every survey so far, business people give the iPhone much higher ratings than they give to the BB in every area. That doesn't exactly help RIM. Neither does the survey we all read that showed that while 90% of iPhone users will get another iPhone, and that 73% of Android users will get another Android phone, only 44% of BB users said they would get another BB.

So while BB sales are still rising, more are leaving than ever before. That means RIM has to sell ever more phones to make up for the vast percentage of their customer base that is going to other platforms, most to iOS. One major question other than where the new sales are going, is what is happening to the current base numbers? Are more leaving than are coming in? If not yet, when will that begin to happen?

And back to our topic of the article; will WP7 ever gain enough mass to be able to gain new developers and hang on to the ones it has now? And if not, what will MS do? We know they think the Zune and the Marketplace is so important to their future that they continue it even though they're losing money on it. Will they do that here, with this much more important product? We see that now they're bringing back the KIN at a much cheaper price with much cheaper plans.
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post #80 of 289
11/29/10 at 3:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by a-maze View Post

I know you've been promoted to GM but you should really think before posting! Your description of dispassionate just proved him right!

If I understood what you just said, I might agree. But I don't.
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