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Windows Phone 7 developers fear platform flop - Page 3

post #81 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Not not, knot.

Who isn't there?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #82 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post

No one was disputing that Apple had some bumps in the road along the way, but there is and always has been good sales analytics and timely payments on Apple's part regarding their devs. Plus, there's also, you know, a viable market for said developers, unlike literally everything Microsoft has thrown out in the mobile space over the past 3 years.

Plus, what "vaporware" has Apple announced and not delivered? And no, simply a different color of an identical product that is out already and is uber-popular does not count.

Actually in the very beginning the sales information was pretty sparse on the Apple Store, too. It's true that Apple didn't withhold payment like Microsoft is apparently doing, but the daily/weekly stats weren't available on day 1. Of course, we're not on day 1 now and Microsoft has to compete with the big boys if they want to play.
post #83 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

sorry but android is a 'real' os not a a filler. and i left att for the nexus one and android. am very happy with it and eagerly awaiting 2.3
it can do anything the iphone does except for 'facetime' and i could care less about that.
its funny to 'hear' the Balmer monkey boy style shrieking around here when it comes to Android and the iphone.

Then why are you hanging out here and comparing your android phone to the iphone. and why are you waiting for 2.3 so it can do anything the iphone can, sounds like iphone envy if you ask me. Go troll on your androidinsider forum where you can be happy.!
post #84 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


Partial quote:

90% of iPhone users will get another iPhone, and that 73% of Android users will get another Android phone, only 44% of BB users said they would get another BB.

I'd like to see an extrapolation of these numbers graphed over time.
From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
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From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
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post #85 of 289
WP7 will get its break when a big Android data scam comes along - an app that really does some damage.
post #86 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

Do you have any data to report or just rumors? How about iPad sales, do you have them? Apple Desktop sales? How about Air sales, Apple TV sales? All of that is APPLE STUFF that I would think I would see at Apple Insider.

Apple must have something to hide.


Better not or the SEC, not to mention the IRS, will want to speak with them. The only thing I can't figure out, is why would someone report to the government entities MORE of an item sold and thus MORE income actually made?

Now, I get it... It's all a hoax just to drive the stock price up. Better cash your Apple stock before it is worth as much as Enron's. Of course Steve and Company look forward to prison time. But only if they are imprisoned at Camp Gitmo in Cuba. Closing it was one of Obama's first achievements several years back, right? But it's still open for business I hear! They sure know how to cater to prisoner requests down there!

Or maybe those quantities and profit are correct because Apple did sell all those iPhones, iPads, apps from the app store and yes, Macs, that it said it did when it filed their quarterly report.

Facts and figures and numbers, oh my! Well let us take the time to look... Google.com... "Apple, Inc. SEC filing"... Hmmm, hmmm, hmm ah there is the link I'm looking for. Time: 10 seconds, or about the time it takes you to do half a post!

Here is a link to the SEC filings. Enjoy all that easy reading! Is that enough proof?

My only other question to you, would be, 'Will you be the next driver of the hearst the next time Redmond "buries" a phone?'
/
/
/

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #87 of 289
Does it surprise anyone, really, that WP7 will probably fold in less time than did Kin..!!

Microshaft does NOT understand the competition model in the smartphone world and how there is LESS TOLERANCE with vendor screw ups and mis-steps than in any market they have ever been in... Because they have 'dominate' the desktop and laptop market for so many years they have grown complacent or worse yet, just don't understand what they have to do DIFFERENTLY in this mobile market than in the desktop/laptop Business IT world... They WILL fail... Having Balmer still around is the guarantee that will happen.

Ray Ozzie leaving sealed it...By June, 2011 - NO M/S in the smartphone business - limited success and fading in the tablet market... Gonna take a lot of good folks down with him...
post #88 of 289
I'm pretty surprised it is doing as well as it is. I was ready to bury wp7 before it even came out based on Pre release screens and videos of the device in action. Tiles never made sense too me and social integration I just never cared about. Not that that is bad. But I would rather Facebook and twitter live inside their apps, not on my home screen.

The tech reviewers kept giving it pretty decent reviews, not sure why. I hope ms moves on, and fo focuses on the xbox as a media center instead. Windows phone is dead.
--SHEFFmachine out
Da Bears!
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--SHEFFmachine out
Da Bears!
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post #89 of 289
It's true that dispassionate is potentially value neutral(i.e. degree of passion is orthogonal to degree of positivity), and my neurotic malapropism-detection pinged a bit on that word use. That said, reviewers don't bother to feign disinterest these days: displaying interest and excitement communicates authenticity while also making for a more interesting article. So, while it's certainly possible for a dispassionate article to be extreme in praise or censure, the colloquial reality (in the phone-review context) seems to be that dispassionate=meh.

So, I fall firmly on both sides of the most important controversy in the thread.
post #90 of 289
They probably are laughing, how true. MS should have integrated WP7 with Xbox Kinect, it would have been the perfect answer to the iTunes/Android Marketplace model. So short sighted, but who didn't see this coming? I mean, look at the UI of WP7...completely cool looking but totally impossible to navigate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

i bet the x-box kinect guys are laughing at the WP7 people now
post #91 of 289
Kinda like saying some guy is wrong for your daughter because he masticates.
post #92 of 289
I would hope both WP7 and Android grow and become successful as this will keep the pressure on Apple to refine and grow the iOS platform.
post #93 of 289
MS won't allow this to be another Kin or Zune. They'll spend billions propping this platform up if they have to. They weren't willing to lose that kind of money on Zune or Kin because they didn't see either as strategically important. But they were willing to lose money on the Xbox for an extended period of time, and gaming consoles aren't nearly as strategically important as mobile operating systems.

It would be a massive defeat for MS to give up on WP7. It's hard to imagine that they even have a plan B.
post #94 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

MS won't allow this to be another Kin or Zune. They'll spend billions propping this platform up if they have to. They weren't willing to lose that kind of money on Zune or Kin because they didn't see either as strategically important. But they were willing to lose money on the Xbox for an extended period of time, and gaming consoles aren't nearly as strategically important as mobile operating systems.

It would be a massive defeat for MS to give up on WP7. It's hard to imagine that they even have a plan B.

Clearly they weren't willing to lose a lot of money on their first phone venture nor the Zune, which is a bust.
post #95 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

MS won't allow this to be another Kin or Zune. They'll spend billions propping this platform up if they have to. They weren't willing to lose that kind of money on Zune or Kin because they didn't see either as strategically important. But they were willing to lose money on the Xbox for an extended period of time, and gaming consoles aren't nearly as strategically important as mobile operating systems.

It would be a massive defeat for MS to give up on WP7. It's hard to imagine that they even have a plan B.

It's hard to know what they could do, however, if the platform doesn't prove popular with consumers. Lobby Congress to pass a law? Arm the sales people? Drop them by the metric ton from MS helicopters?

I agree that Microsoft has a lot riding on getting an at least competitive smartphone platform established, but all the money in the world can't make a product that people don't like successful, especially if there are appealing alternatives.

I'm not saying that Windows 7 is doomed, necessarily-- I'm actually kind of surprised at the sales numbers, since I would have thought that we're in the midst of an historic uptake phase for smart phones and that you've got new customers walking in the door every day with no legacy baggage-- just that MS can't simply will it into people's hands.

The Xbox had exclusive killer games to help drive adoption. Can MS get a Windows Phone only killer app?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #96 of 289
Apple Customers are harassed for drinking the "Kool Aid". So far, none of us have gagged on it.

I don't know what Android users drink.
post #97 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Microsoft's Windows Phone 7 debut appears to have flopped with consumers,

I predicted that....
post #98 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

Hmm most reviews I have read like the OS and the devices. Even Walt, iFan, Mossberg liked it.

Good thing a not a single one of these developers for the iPhone has ever had a problem with Apple, its wide open developers rules and the super quick and easy app approval process

Apple Insider should stick to predicting future vapor Apple Hardware releases and quoting Jon Gruber.

Welcome back DaHarder or should i say TeckStud?
post #99 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Core2 View Post

Then why are you hanging out here and comparing your android phone to the iphone. and why are you waiting for 2.3 so it can do anything the iphone can, sounds like iphone envy if you ask me. Go troll on your androidinsider forum where you can be happy.!

yes! thats the sound that balmer makes! shriek on!
post #100 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

If it can't break 5,000 apps in 2 months, there will be a problem. It's too late to take a year before having a serious number of apps out there, which today would mean 50,000, at least.

By that time, the phone would be on a short slide to oblivion.

I disagree. How many apps does one person need or even want? It doesn't matter how many apps there are as long as they're the RIGHT apps. As a matter of fact, fewer apps would be better. In the Apple app store, it's too hard to find the decent and relevant apps. One doesn't need 50 apps the likes of iFart to be successful.
post #101 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

It's hard to know what they could do, however, if the platform doesn't prove popular with consumers. Lobby Congress to pass a law? Arm the sales people? Drop them by the metric ton from MS helicopters?

Buy a mobile carrier.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #102 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomMcIn View Post

Apple Customers are harassed for drinking the "Kool Aid". So far, none of us have gagged on it.

I don't know what Android users drink.

free beer....
post #103 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluck View Post

So 2 developers are enough to generalize for the entire platform? LOL

I am not surprised WP7 is off to a slow start. I would think it is going to take MS sometime and a few OS updates to build any sort of critical mass. I also doubt it will ever displace Android or iPhone in market share.

However, it will exceed the sales of RIM platform hardware by the end of 2011 as RIM continues its slide of death. MS will continue to pour money into the platform until they get it to where they want.

So, are you saying conceding MS will never top Apple iOS or Android in the mobile marketplace yet they will (in time over several OS updates [years]) will surpass RIM? In that you are saying Microsoft is spending endless millions and resources just to move from #4 or 5 up to #3. If that is correct then that is beyond idiotic. Shouldn't the goal be to get to #1 or #2? Yeah #3 is cool - silver - but I don't anyone goes into a race hoping to walkout with silver. That makes MS look even more foolish if that is the goal and end result.
post #104 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by fenevad View Post

Reviews of new WP7 devices have also been

dispassionate Not to get picky or anything, but this word you are using, I do not think it means what you think it means

A dispassionate review could be extremely positive or extremely negative (or neither)

When it comes to making sales, "dispassionate" is the kiss of death. If the users' response to Windows Phone is "meh" then they're not going to sell very many. And that's negative, wouldn't you agree?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #105 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomMcIn View Post

Apple Customers are harassed for drinking the "Kool Aid". So far, none of us have gagged on it.

I don't know what Android users drink.

Horse piss. Also known as Amstel Light Beer.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #106 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I don't like the snarky tone of your second sentence and the insults in the third, but I basically agree with your take on the OS itself.

I can't stand Microsoft, or any of their products, but I'm a bit mystified as to why it isn't catching on more. It's got brand recognition, and a really original interface that addresses the major shortcomings of the iOS interface (lack of integration and poor notifications).

I thought Windows Phone 7 was such a better proposition than Android, and so much more user friendly, that it would surely be a hit. Of course I also thought WebOS was clearly a better designed OS than Android, but that hasn't caught on either.

I see Android as a sort of "fill-in" OS or a default, or fall-back OS. It's what you use when there isn't anything else around. It's what you put on a junky free phone, etc. I was sure however, that we'd also see some real alternatives (like WebOS and Windows Phone 7), and I think it's bad news for everyone that neither seems to have taken off.

Well, there are some stories on the net regarding supply shortages, however that might be just an excuse. But I don't think it is too relevant - what were initial Android sales, anyway? Because that is the closest match to what MS is doing - single OS, hardware guidelines, multiple manufacturers.

I'm not expecting WP7 to be a blast right out of the start, but would be surprised if it doesn't end up successful. As an IT company, we already have some interest from our customers, Exchange and SharePoint integration (with decent mobile Office included) seem to be major motivations. No one so far even mentioned Xbox/games, but then again we are catering only for local businesses.
post #107 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

I've "ruffled" some panties! Or did they ruffle me? Oh well!

Seriously, I don't understand this "rush to market" that MS and Boogle exhibit time and time again...remember back when Netbooks were the only bright spot for PC's and the debate was Market share vs. profitability?

Everyone with any nouse new profitability was preferable.


HP seems to have it somewhat correct in buying Palm for their WebOS and RIM also designing a completely new OS. But I agree with Jobs, they are really starting from way behind.

The Galaxy table using Boogle's Frodo which they themselves have said is not "Tablet ready" and everyone knows MS never releases anything that's ever been even close to "ready!"

Sheez!

You have pretty much described every new generation of Apple hardware, and some software (like latest iLife).

Not to mention that early generations of Android - like 1.5 - and Android phones from that time were any better.

As long as platform has decent core, initial "completeness" is not imperative. It will grow in features and bugs will be ironed. As the sales grow (or IF the sales grow) manufacturers will come out with better hardware.
post #108 of 289
Wait, Microsoft Has a mobile platform?
post #109 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60

Not not, knot.

Who isn't there?

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #110 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Microsoft is reportedly also withholding any payments to its app developers through February 2011.

Microsoft is really slipping. The MS of old would be sending out checks that represent large sales - warranted or not - just to generate buz and get the market flowing.

Ouch. Looks like Win Phone 7 will be stillborn if they keep pulling boneheaded stuff like this
post #111 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

"In the UK, an Orange launch event opened to a line of just two people."

Wow! I bet one was DaHarder....

Thank goodness I wasn't drinking anything when I read that. Thanks!
post #112 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

I am not sure I see your point.

Android took 6 months to sell its first million units, and I am willing to bet that articles were written, or could have been written, stating that the iPhone was outselling Android 10-20 or 30 to 1 a month after Android was released, and look where things stand now.

This is not to say that WP7 will be a success, but there are no real sales numbers available (one estimate from an anonymous source from an unnamed market research firm does not really count), which is MS's fault, but no one really knows what is happening.

2 developers griping does not spell doom for WP7, any more than a couple of iOS developers leaving because of problems with the iOS approval process.

I guarantee if the sales numbers were good, everybody would know them. MS wouldn't keep it quite. The fact that they gagging the media and developers can only mean the numbers are bad!
post #113 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Wouldn't you be angry if you camped out three days prior to the release of a product only to realize had you not, you'd still be the first in line?

Second out loud post of the night! Thank you!
post #114 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You apparently don't know that Apple released those numbers for the iPad. 3.3 million the first quarter, and 4.19 million the second quarter. They release desktop sales as well, though i Don't remember the numbers, something like 3.9 million the last quarter, I think. They also release laptop numbers, though not always breaking it down. ATv sales haven't been at the level Apple considers significant, so they've been calling it a hobby. Now, with the new one selling well, we'll see if they break it out.

As you know very well, Apple has always released iPod sales numbers, and iPhone sales numbers. MS releases numbers of sales for their other products, except notably for the Zune and so far for WP7, though they used to release license numbers for Win Mobile.

Being snarky doesn't make your argument any better, not does it make you look any smarter.

Apple has not released a break down of computer sales (laptop/desktop) since 2005. They held back iPad sales for more than a quarter, there were plenty of articles that speculated slowing sales etc until Apple did. They, like Microsoft wanted to release a decent number. Why did Apple wait?

You always here good numbers from Apple, as in lots of info about iPhones, or total computer sales, but nothing negative.
post #115 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

sorry but android is a 'real' os not a a filler

Except for the parts of Sun's IP they stole. That's neither filler nor real.
post #116 of 289
Here's what MS does when what it deems to be an important technology does well:

Quote:
Microsoft announced today that Kinect, its new 3D-camera-based Xbox 360 controller, has sold 2.5 million units worldwide in its first 25 days of retail availability.

It's simply not true that MS is some kind of shrinking violet when it comes to trumpeting sales numbers. If Windows Phone 7 were selling well we'd be hearing about it.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #117 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

Apple fans should actually want WP7 to succeed as it caps how quickly Android can grow.

I don't care, and I sincerely doubt, Apple cares about capping anyones growth.

Steve has repeatedly said this, and all their actions clearly demonstrate that Apple believes this: If you build the best products in the world, people will seek them out and things like profit and market share will take care of themselves.

I think this is refreshing and directly applicable to Apple's success. They aren't worried about their competitors, they are worried about their customers.

Many companies and posters in forums like this could do well to understand the difference.

Sure they take pot shots at competitors from time to time. Who says work has to always be boring But to infer from the occasional pot shot that Jobs obsesses about Android "eating their lunch" is just insane. If it helps you sleep at night, run with it - but there are far more interesting things to fantasize about
post #118 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvswarup View Post

I bet that BlackBerry afficionados in the enterprise market have an aversion to the iPhone, and Android to a lesser extent because of all the features that those platforms provide.

Not in my organization. I was pretty intimately involved with our recent mail migration and at least 60% of the current BB users were pretty PO'd they couldn't get support for the iPhone yet. It's coming the first quarter of this year - I expect a mass exodus (including me!) as soon as that happens. Sure, there will be some holdouts, but they will be the vast minority.

And the iPad - oy! Thanks to the iPad we are going to have an Enterprise Apple hardware contract for the first time. I never thought I would live to see that!

The halo effect - it's what's for breakfast.
post #119 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

Apple has not released a break down of computer sales (laptop/desktop) since 2005. They held back iPad sales for more than a quarter, there were plenty of articles that speculated slowing sales etc until Apple did. They, like Microsoft wanted to release a decent number. Why did Apple wait?

You always here good numbers from Apple, as in lots of info about iPhones, or total computer sales, but nothing negative.

Pssstt...... you sound desperate. You're barely making sense.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #120 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

Apple hasn't made any big strides into this sector

1) Companies move slow
2) OS 4.2 adds significant features
3) User demand will force IT shops to offer it eventually

RIM is on borrowed time. They won't go away wholly or immediately, but once a few high profile roll-outs happen that's it - the proverbial flood gates will open.

And for those who claim the iPhone isn't as manageable as the Blackberry, for the cost of a BB Server, TSupport and the per user CALs I can get a third party management system that not only matches BB management functionality, but exceeds it - while integrating the iPhone into other management technologies like SCOM I might own. In this aspect, RIM is on the outside looking in.
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