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Enterprise buyers frustrated by Apple axing Xserve, but sticking with Mac - Page 2

post #41 of 52
12/7/10 at 4:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

How close are we to ARM-based servers? From what I read it is quite possible that low-power ARM servers based on A8 or A9 ARM CPUs are eminent.

Don't bank on it. Wrong direction. Intel isn't the problem. Duplicating what can be had in the commodity market for servers is the problem.

Expect a deal with Oracle for Sun hardware, or a deal with the likes of VMWare for a bundled solution to run OSX server in VMware.

I highly doubt we will see any further Apple server hardware. It just doesn't make sense, especially in the days of virtualization.

And no, I don't think this is any prelude to licensing Mac OSX on desktop or laptops. Totally different target market, totally different set of parameters from the server side of things. Mac OSX will never be offered on non-Apple hardware. If you want to choose your hardware, there are other OS's for that.
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post #42 of 52
12/7/10 at 4:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

On Tuesday, CNNMoney.com profiled the reactions of Xserve customers, ............. CNNMoney.com noted that in a survey of 1,200 Xserve customers, 70 percent said the cancelation of the Xserve will not change their preference toward Apple computers.
.

Please note - that's not what CNN's survey sample consisted of.

The sample consisted of 1200 people who worked for companies who had purchased xServes. There was absolutely no requirement that the responders had used an xServe or even knew what it looked like.

In fact, if there were 1200 regular xServe customers, Apple would probably have sold enough to have kept the product line (especially considering that enterprise customers tend to buy computers by the dozen).
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post #43 of 52
12/7/10 at 5:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJones View Post

If it hasn't been any clearer that Apple is completely leaving the pro market to focus strictly on the consumer market.

1: Apple Computer Inc. changes name to Apple Inc.

2: Bootcamp (Windows only? What about Linux?)

3: No more X-Raid.

4: No more X-Server (Linux is much more customizable and can use any hardware)

5: The iPad, the iPhone, the iPod Touch and other "closed OS" devices.

6: All but the MacPro are closed hardware.


Didn't Phil S. mention that the "consumer" market is like over 50% of the total computing market?


Why sit still and be consistent when you can have over 50% of the market going where the consumer wind blows and mass produce a simple set of hardware?

Why bother with the many needs of the enterprise market for specialized hardware who are only going to try to chew you down on price?

Why cater to a market trying to make money when you got a larger market willing to blow money?


The next Apple machines to go are the MacPro and the MacBook Pro.

1: The MacPro is too much power for most consumers, high end 3D games have gone over to consoles, far easier and cheaper. We will soon hear the same that occurred to the X-Server "we are not selling them". The cause? Power and performance isn't important anymore, portability and functionality is.

2: The MacBook Pro will undergo changes, already rumored the Superdrive and hard drives will be axed in the next versions, to be external optional devices.


The next to go are Apple's "Pro' software or morph into some sort of iOS cloud based solution, this way Apple can focus on selling consumer hardware strictly and if you need more horsepower for "Pro" work, you can use the new NC servers.


A final insult, iOS will rule on all Apple hardware and the mouse and the independent trackpad will disappear.

I wouldn't be surprised if Apple implements some sort of touchscreen/keyboard on the MacBook Pro's instead of the real keyboard, of course they have to solve the heat issue, as keyboards are presently used for venting (thus no liquids on keyboards) but if they start using less powerful A4 dual cores (coming soon) that should take care of that problem nicely.

Independent graphics? Gone. somebody better call Nvida with the bad news.


Welcome to the new Apple.

You don't know what you are talking about.
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post #44 of 52
12/7/10 at 5:06pm
Did Apple make an honest effort to promote Xserve and listen to enterprise customers? Or was the Xserve purposely set up for failure to give Steve an excuse to abandon the server market?
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post #45 of 52
12/7/10 at 5:30pm
Quote:
One Apple Enterprise shop we spoke to said that Apples System Engineers have been on a campaign to assure that Apple has another solution in the pipeline beyond what theyve announced. There wasnt an exact timeline of release but there was an indication that when the Xserve inventory runs out, the new product will be released. That means a new Enterprise product could be ready in February.

Please no more of this "We're dropping support for X. It's going away forever and will be depreciated immediately. Don't use it. Sorry." *a month passes* "Well actually we're just replacing it with Y."

See also: Java on OS X.
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post #46 of 52
12/8/10 at 1:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

From what I read it is quite possible that low-power ARM servers based on A8 or A9 ARM CPUs are eminent.

imminent
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post #47 of 52
12/8/10 at 5:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by djames4242 View Post

I personally can't think of any compelling reason to be able to dual-boot directly into Linux on Mac hardware. The only reason I boot directly into Windows is for games. There aren't a lot of Linux-based games that are graphically intensive and that do not have MacOS (or Windows) alternatives. I played around with OpenArena (which was, actually, quite cool), and of course there are a few simulators and the Doom derivatives... I do have a Fedora VM on my Mini at the office that I use occasionally for testing purposes, but I don't care to boot directly into it.

Besides, I believe BootCamp was intended for switchers. Most people running Linux are a bit more technically savvy and understand that OSX gives them the Unix they're looking for...


Linux users are more tech savvy, use everything from OS X to Windows to various flavors of Linux. We already have a solution for triple booting all three operating systems with rEFIt.

The reason why you can't think of a compelling reason to dual-boot or even triple boot, is because Apple is keeping Linux off Bootcamp for the 90% of those who are NOT technically savvy (but are willing to check it out if they had a easy to use installation method) thus making it rather hard for developers to consider the platform due to low market share.

So who is holding back potential computer savvy users on Macs? Apple is.

The real purpose of Bootcamp is to prepare college level OS X users to use Windows to get a job.

However Linux is used rather broadly in the server market due to it's high level of customization and open source nature. Even Pixar under Jobs used Linux render servers. Apple is leaving the server market, Microsoft is failing in that market, so there is no reason for Apple to restrict Linux from Bootcamp anymore.

And OS X doesn't give Linux users what they are looking for, except more polished commercial software, as it's tied to Apple hardware, like that really doesn't stop us really.

But it would be nice to have a easy triple booting system platform, so a college student can take their triple booting Mac anywhere and into any field they choose.

VM's can be better for some newbies, in case something gets hosed to revert to a previous snapshot, but there is a performance hit in the 3D/graphics area which the OS uses too, not just games.

Windows 7 has a total system restore feature to hd or dvd's and Linux users simply know how to clone their whole partition via Terminal, so triple booting is really the way to go, just need a simple Bootcamp method for those just transitioning.

If your looking for a OS X clone in Linux, look at Xubuntu and Docky, makes a nice inexpensive OS X like netbook for around $300 or so. You'll need Windows and PenDriveLinux to install Xubuntu on a 2GB thumb drive and fiddle with the BIOS.

One can download the Xubuntu iso and load it into their favorite VM as well, search for Docky in the Ubuntu Software Center.
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post #48 of 52
12/8/10 at 6:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

Did Apple make an honest effort to promote Xserve and listen to enterprise customers? Or was the Xserve purposely set up for failure to give Steve an excuse to abandon the server market?

What killed the X-Server was the processor switch from G5 to common Intel processors, basically rendering the only advantage of the X-Server had (the processor) to OS X Server which really isn't a advantage if you can't take the server OS to another hardware vendor and have to rely upon Apple's rather inattentiveness to the enterprise market in favor of the consumer market.

Servers have gone over to Linux anyway, it's secure, it's open, it's free, it's highly customizable, it's rapidly updated and it's not subjected to one company's or person's whims or laziness. It's driven by those who need it and insure it's survival.

Linux makes a nice desktop OS too, unfortunately 90% of the computer using people out there are appliance users, not mechanics. Thus the popularity of the iPad and other closed devices.
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post #49 of 52
12/8/10 at 9:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJones View Post

What killed the X-Server was the processor switch from G5 to common Intel processors, basically rendering the only advantage of the X-Server had (the processor) to OS X Server which really isn't a advantage if you can't take the server OS to another hardware vendor and have to rely upon Apple's rather inattentiveness to the enterprise market in favor of the consumer market.

Servers have gone over to Linux anyway, it's secure, it's open, it's free, it's highly customizable, it's rapidly updated and it's not subjected to one company's or person's whims or laziness. It's driven by those who need it and insure it's survival.

Linux makes a nice desktop OS too, unfortunately 90% of the computer using people out there are appliance users, not mechanics. Thus the popularity of the iPad and other closed devices.

The switch from PowerPC to Intel had nothing to do with the demise of Apple's enterprise sales. Not sure where you come up with this nonsense.

You also make it sound like that a company can only focus on one thing at a time, which is clearly not the case. Apple simply realized that there was an insufficient financial/strategic value proposition to provide an expensive service and support infrastructure and hardware development when (at the time) a majority of its server products were used in work group size environment.

That said, you also appear to have a distorted view on Linux servers. Free?
The majority of enterprise Linux installations are anything but free. They are using licensed and supported Linux distros (which are not inexpensive btw.) like Redhat Enterprise Linux. I know we do.

Free Linux installations are typically found with individuals, not corporations...

When it comes to the desktop versions of Linux, you make it sound like people are too stupid to use them (or brain washed?). How about the OS simply not being compelling enough to be competitive for widespread distribution. I certainly find the bag of desktop Linux distros inferior to Mac OS X and couldn't imagine a reason to switch (and I am a mechanic, to use your terminology)..
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post #50 of 52
12/8/10 at 10:22am
Insight from the higher ed community: http://maclearning.org/kwolf/blog/63/
I got nothin'.
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post #51 of 52
12/8/10 at 8:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter02l View Post

It seems, then, customers like you are the reason Apple decided to stop production. Why complain then? I bet you can get a decent price for your obsolete equipment. You should be happy.

I agree with the person you quote completely and you respond blindly. I really wish people would reevaluate what is going on here. People who do not use the Xserve HAVE NO RIGHT TO COMMENT. LOM is crucial along with the redundant power supplies. The 1U form factor is nice too. Please respect those who have more experience than you ever could in the server field.
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post #52 of 52
12/31/10 at 1:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorwho View Post

Apple towers have not been horizontally rackable since the death of the G4, and lord knows i've tried. There are also substantial cooling issues with placing a unit as shallow as a Mac Pro in a 30" deep rack. You also make the omission of a redundant power supply sound trivial, and fail to mention the lack of a server grade NIC with LOM. Who would hang a business off an infrastructure that is so ill-equipped for its purpose?

Virtualization is already an option for OS X Server, but only on top of a Mac host. Which Mac are you going to use to run a bunch of VM's? THe only candidate is the Xserve, or a hackintosh server.

My clients will be scrapping OD, switching to AD with extended schema, phasing out XSan, looking at alternatives to Final Cut Server/D.A.M. and migrating anything in the server room we can to RHEL. Between this and the crappy graphics card support, it's one less reason to be able to argue keeping the Mac platform. When asked why to buy the Mac for a business, I could spew for five minutes reason after reason, separated with "AND's". Now I'm out of arguments in under a minute, and they are all separated with "BUT's". This, coming from a die-hard Apple fan for more than 20 years.


I think Apple has lost touch with anyone with "Pro" in their title. I was burned badly when they abruptly discontinued their Xserve RAIDS as I'm sure were a lot of other media professionals who spent a lot of money on their systems. So for Apple to say that they don't sell well is a ridiculous argument. They don't sell well because Apple keeps people in the dark. Who wants (or can even afford) to spend $100,000 on a stack of Xserves only for Apple to discontinue the product at Steve J's whim. I guess Steve doesn't realize the what affects his decisions have on small to medium sized businesses. Hey Stevie! Ya listening? Everyone is NOT a billionaire! Every production house doesn't have the huge budget of a Digital Domain or ILM. When we spend $10,000 on an Xserve, it hurts deep in our pockets.
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