Piper: Android will be 'tested' once Apple brings iPhone to Verizon - Page 2

If the iPhone does indeed go to Verizon wireless or any other carrier, expect to see some really long lines. The demand will be so huge that you might be on the waiting list for quite some time. The average consumer might get inpatient and go buy another phone instead since Apple can't keep with the demand.

nail on the head there prof.

I was reading a review on the new Samsung phone earlier. I think they said it best as 'android catching up to android'.

The issue with this is that many manufacturers still remember the difficulties they had dealing with Microsoft when using Windows Mobile 6.x. Microsoft is trying to control the user experience with Windows Phone 7 even more tightly, removing one of the key differentiations that manufacturers use to make their devices more attractive than their competitors'. Also, remember that Microsoft has shafted its mobile partners several times recently. That, plus royalty payments, make WP7 a much less interesting platform.

These people are unreal. AT&T exclusivity got us the iPhone in the first place! Without the AT&T exclusive deal and the basic restructuring of the way phones are bought and sold in the US market that the exclusivity provided for, the iPhone could have never existed!

And neither could Android, the Pre or Windows Phone 7. AT&T took a huge risk on a then totally unknown phone manufacturer. Sure, now it looks like a no-brainer decision, but hindsight is always 20/20. I have no problem with AT&T benefiting from their huge initial risk - suck it Verizon, the rewards should go to those who are willing to take risks and break molds.

Second, Apple hasn't had any problem selling each generation iPhone worldwide as fast as they can make them, so it sure hasn't hampered them too much. I would much rather see them have a larger total global market share than dominate just US market share.

Finally, if they had totally dominated market share in the US right out the gate, the idiots crying about "monopoly!" would have been even more vocal and emboldened than they already were, and some jackass would no doubt be pressuring the government to poke their nose into Apple's business more than they were in the past.

Android, if nothing else, is a great insulator for Apple to get the iPhone and now iOS ecosystem established and operating without having to deal with the interference of federal regulators.

So yes, Apple could have owned the US market if they had figured out a way to get Verizon to play ball - but in the end would it have been that beneficial? I doubt it. Between the compromises that Verizion no doubt demanded and the potential headaches of dealing with threats of regulations, I have no doubt Apple is more than happy with the way things have and are playing out. Even today, if you look at the survey's, the iOS is still greatly valued over Android - so when the iPhone inevitably is offered on all carriers, that domination that Munster is waxing poetic about will more than likely still happen. I sincerely doubt Apple is all that worried.

Unlike many "analysts" and posters in forums like this, Apple has shown time and time again they plan strategically for the long term - not the short term. I know the concept is almost unheard of in American business thought, but it's something more companies and "analysts" might want to look into

No kidding. I find the differences between carriers to be more perception and hype than reality.

Indeed, Root Metrics has a free app - Coverage Map. That's the iPhone version, but they offer it on other devices. In the area around my home, Sprint coverage is noticeably better on their map that either AT&T and Verzion - and when I had my Sprint phone I would say that it did perform a little bit better.

What surprised me was when I was in DC near the national mall, I remembered to open the map and Verizon's coverage was show and a sea of yellow/orange, indicating marginal coverage and AT&T was mostly yellow and green. I forgot to check Sprint. What I find interesting about their maps is they are generated from users of the networks with devices on their networks, so it's as close to real world as you area going to get. And so far the areas I am familiar with and have checked with their maps match my experiences with the various carriers and devices I have had. If nothing else it's interesting to see how coverage in you area is.

If you are on Android right now simply because you think you have to be on Verizon to have good coverage, you might want to grab the android version of their app and check out the AT&T map for your area vs. the Verizon map. You might be surprised by what you find.

Right now Verizon's marketing about it's "network" is it's only real differentiator. They probably hate the concept of apps like this that prove in many areas there really isn't that much difference after all. Sure, your house may be in a radio shadow for one carrier vs. another so that makes the choice for you harder, but all in all, especially in major metropolitan areas, there really isn't that much difference between the carriers overall. Don't take my word for it - check out the Coverage Map app and see for yourself.

Yes because things like usability are for wimps

This always comes up and I'm seriously interested - what exactly are you dragging and dropping?

It doesn't matter if Android "outsells" the iPhone - with all the BOGOF and other discounts I would be shocked if "Android" didn't outsell the iPhone. What is more interesting to me is Google getting the same return on investment as Apple, and are Android developers profiting the same as iPhone developers?

That the developers of Angry Birds felt the best way to monetize Android was by releasing a free ad-supported version answers the second question for me satisfactorily.

Talk is cheap and so are meaningless stats like "sales" numbers.

I don't mean to be rude answering for him.

But the general answer usually is "any and everything". While iTunes will handle the media portion very well, some people just prefer not to use it. It's a personal preference thing.

One of those hoops wouldn't be Jailbreaking, would it?

Gee, I can do that on the iPhone too. Remind me what exactly is new that Android brings to the table other than the return of tired and failing business models from the carriers trying to "add value"?

I haven't used iTunes to transfer non-media files since I finally got around to opening a DropBox account - so I do have drag and drop. Even better, it's wireless drag and drop (still peeved Apple isn't supporting wifi sync with iTunes).

As for iTunes and media files, I still haven't seen a rational reason for not using iTunes other that "I just don't like it" - and if you really don't like it there are iTunes alternatives that will let you sync your media files. You just need a copy of iTunes around for OS updates and the occasional backup.

And nine times out of ten, when I really start digesting people who don't like iTunes, it's more from them not understanding metadata (contained in MP3 tags) and the way iTunes organizes media based on it. For the life of me I don't understand why some people absolutely cling to folder/file names for organization of music. If someone was trying to convince us to organize a relational database with records as text files and grouped by folder/file name they would rightly be laughed at, but you get some people with media files and all the sudden it makes perfect sense?

I didn't get it in 1999 when I bought the very first hard drive based MP3 player the day it was released, and I get it even less with the advent of programs like iTunes that, especially with SmartPlaylists, let you slice and dice your music collections in a practically limitless manner. Yes, if you pirate your MP3 files from torrent sites or off the web, your metadata is probably crap and it will take a little effort to clean it up, but there are a plethora of utilities (mac or windows) that will take file/folder structure and write it to your tags, or examine your files and help you clean up your tags. Heck, the better ones will help you embed lyrics which display rather nicely on the iPod Touch and iPhone (and I think the current iPod classic, but I haven't verified that myself).

Asymco (Horace Dediu) has put it succinctly: there currently is no true product/feature competition between iPhone and Android. Given the growth rate of the market, this is a supply constrained market. In a nice analogy, he writes:

Another way to see it is this: If there is a shortage of bananas, you cant make a case for Costa Rican bananas being preferred over Honduran bananas. People will buy whatever bananas they can get (even if one may be preferred over the other). If Honduras can produce twice as many as Costa Rica then they will sell them all and it says nothing about their quality or end user preference or whether that volume advantage will be sustainable once the shortage abates.

In other words: As long as Honduras bananas are not completely rotten, they will be sold. If Android is halfway decent and Android outproduces Apple they will be sold more because the demand for smartphones far outstrips supply. Only when the market becomes less supply constrained will we see the true competition between Android and iOS phones.

So, there are chances for many competitors still (Microsoft, RIM, Nokia) if they put out a decent offer. And that is not just the hard- and software of the phone. It also includes the app market, the user experience of using that app market, etc., etc.

It seems to me that Microsoft, RIM and Nokia still have a decent chance of creating an ecosystem in this explosively growing market. They have enough clout to possibly attract enough developers to get/keep a market and thus an ecosystem started/going. The situation for HP seems dark to me. What chance do they have to actually build an ecosystem?

Android's ecosystem total dominance is still far from certain too. For larger apps you need a memory architecture comparable to the iPhone. That is why the just announced Nexus S has such an architecture (enough flash RAM, no SD card). But it is the only one where such apps will run. That is a pretty small market.

Interesting times indeed.

Even a blind man can see that both the iPhone and android phones (as a set) will continue to grow for the foreseeable future. It hardly matters at the moment who will best whom by some percentage points. What matters more is scalability of the ecosystem and fragmentation of the product line (avoidance thereof). In this respect, it is my opinion that apple is far ahead of the game and will continue their profit-making enterprise unabated.

All very good points. I have no issues going in and cleaning up metadata when it's needed (actually, I'm a bit OCD to it being formatted a certain way). I personally use MediaMonkey as my music player/organizer. It does a great job for being a light-weight program.

But I do keep a copy of iTunes lying around since my dad owns an iPhone. I prefer to do any troubleshooting using my laptop than having to rummage through his aging laptop full of random files all over the desktop. You know how parents get...

iPhone on Versizon is going to be a test. but Android's true test is windows phone 7.

Both iPhone and Android has their fan base, but what Android (and windows) phone makers are catering to are people who don't give a crap about which phone they get as long as it's dirt cheap and somewhat cool.

I picked up SongGenie and CoverScout in a bundle deal. They are awesome and my iTunes library has never looked better. I still have quite a bit of cleanup to do, and SongGenie has even helped me get some consistency in tunes I have purchased from Apple and Amazon so it's not all puppies/kittens/unicorns when you buy digital music legitimately

I've used other solutions, but the workflow in SongGenie is top notch - and it's far more reliable than any other mass tag editing/fixing program I have tried (and I own a few other commercial one too).

I didn't care about album art until I got my Apple TV and now iPhone Darn Apple and their exposing cool and sexy features that look good.


Oh, I know. That's why my dad is now on an iPad instead of my Mom's iMac I don't ever see him owning an iPhone, but the iPad is perfect for him and iTunes works perfectly for what he needs (very minimal indeed).

Or they'll come back the next day like everyone does when a new iPhone is released on AT&T...

I'm confused. We have people still waiting (and whining) for the white iPhone 4, and there's zero point in doing so.

We won't have people going away from the iPhone if the "lines are too long". They'll wait, because they perceive that it's worth it.

That's something Android will never have.

As a programmer I consider myself "rational." just like I no longer tinker with my vehicles, I no longer care to spend time tinkering with my phone. I want it to do specific tasks, and to do it quickly. Android phones are perfect for some, but I'm happy with my iPhone.

Sorry dupe post

You're starting to sound like a broken record, constantly posting over and over the lawsuit has "merit". If it did where's the immediate cease order to Google? A judge will not order a recall of several million phones especially since Google isn't really putting android on the devices. Its gonna be a mess to sort out.

1. You're wrong. (There were long lines for the Droid 1), and 2. Who cares? Only losers wait in line.

Youll have to supply some proof to make your point. Everything I recall had Verizon saying how much they dont want flashy lines and pics of very very tiny to no lines at very stores before opening.

http://www.businessinsider.com/live-...google-droid-1

Is this Gene Munster?

I'm not so sure. They could have waited. But remember what's happening at Verizon. Sales are slowing significantly. Those sales, smartphone sales, are mostly comprised of Android phones. You saw the last Verizon numbers. They're bad. If that's repeated across the board at other carriers, here, and possibly abroad, then I can see it.

Not only isn't that true, but "most buyers" haven't even heard of the term. They look at what's available, and whether it does what they would like, and whether they would like the company. This "open" nonsense is just a techie thing. In actuality, there is a case to be made that iOS is MORE open than Android. we have not only more apps, but a greater selection of kinds of apps. we don't have cell companies putting apps and interfaces on our phone that we can't remove. We have numerous hardware devices that Android will never have, including many that work with special programs. Often, standardization results in MORE diversity to the user in apps and accessories, because developers of both software and hardware see that they can sell, and thus develop more product.

It's often said by reviewers that the apps for iOS are better across the board than those for Android, and they're easier to find and install very often. This is because Apple thought out the App Store better than Google thought out their Marketplace, and because iOS users are willing to pay for apps, where Android users are not.

All of this has to be considered when wondering what "open", as well as "useful" means.

Which apps are you using to play AVI files on your devices?

I like the free CineXPlayer on the iPad, but can't find a good equivalent for the iPhone / iPod Touch.

For the iPhone I use VLC Player, but for the iPad I have both VLC Player (since it’s a Universal app) and CineXPlayer (which I prefer to use on the iPad).

VLC works well enough on my iPhone 4 and I use it infrequently enough that I see no need to buy the $2 CineXPlayer app for iPhone/Touch, but it is available.

• CineXPlayer for iPhone —

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/cinex...391790896?mt=8

• VLC Player — http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/vlc-m...390885556?mt=8

I've been looking for info on this for 30 minutes, and there's little that's useful, and none completely current. but here's what looks useful;

http://www.electronista.com/articles....nokia.slides/

http://www.reghardware.com/2010/07/27/uk_android_sales/

Of course, as is pointed out, this is at a time when people slack off buying iPhones because of the new phone coming out, and so it skews the stats. The iPhone 4 was only available for one week at the end of the reporting period. Still, the iPhone held 64% of the market compared to Android's either 13.2 or 19%. We don't know from the article which measure was being used for the iPhone numbers, so it could either be higher or lower.

I can agree with that. but that doesn't mean that MS and others have all the time they need to do this. Right now, iOS and Android are getting all the publicity, and the mindshare. Most people would respond with iPhone and Android when asked what they're considering.

WP7, Nokia, RIM, and even WebOS still have chances to make good. but Nokia is quickly losing marketshare. They've even been supplanted in Finland by the iPhone in marketshare. RIM is still doing well, but that 44% that said they would do it again is dreadful. Can they change that number? It won't be easy, as it's been declining over some time. WebOs has had its chance. Can Hp turn it around? They don't seem to be too eager. They seem to be more interested in embedded uses for the OS along with tablets. Whether they'll succeed in tablets is to me, a long shot.

And then there's WP7. It's new, sorta. But it doesn't seem to be engendering too much enthusiasm. Sales don't seem to be great so far, so who knows? Will it continue as an also ran, or can it become one of the big three? They need a lot more apps, and they need them soon.

Only losers make comments about other people's interests and intentions in that way. I waited on line during a nice bright sunny day the first day the 3G iPad came out, and had a good time talking to people from around the world who were doing the same thing. I don't think any of us are losers, do you, really?

How was it bad? Since the iphone 4 was launched at the end of Q2, AT&T had 1000 more postpaid net adds than Verizon in Q2+Q3.

Just look at the numbers. AT&T is adding subscribers way faster than Verizon, Shortly, they will surpass them. Most of those adds are iPhone adds, and those are stable, high paying customers. That's what matters. And Verizon knows it.

AT&T's ARPU went down, profit margins went down --- they are buying market shares.

Verizon has 1.249 million postpaid net adds since the iphone 4 was launched in June 2010. AT&T has 1.250 million postpaid net adds since the iphone 4 was launched in June 2010. That's the difference --- a 1000 postpaid net adds.

The vast majority of AT&T's net adds come from MVNO's and connected devices.

Unless the US market is somehow unique and completely different to Europe then I find this story hard to believe.

The iPhone is on every carrier in all countries in Europe and android is now overtaking iOS on phones. Having a choice of carriers in the UK has not made iPhone dominate android at all.

Then again, mobile operators don't seem quite as retarded in the UK from what I have heard about the US.

source on this?

I have used iPhone, iPhone 3G, & iPhone 3Gs. Now I am using the Droid X. I always thought I would jump on the iPhone as soon as it hits Verizon. Not so sure I will be doing that. The onlly thing I miss from the iPhone is gapless playback. It is real nice not being tied to iTunes.

Here's proof.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-30686_3-10392128-266.html

But no, there normally aren't lines for Android devices or any other for that matter except gaming consoles.

Like it or not, this is what really matters.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...ne-demand.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/23/te...23verizon.html

Yeah, they're pretty bad in the UK. Every time I've been there I read about that.

Read the links I posted about Apple vs Android in Europe.