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Mobiles, iPod touch killing off Nintendo DS, Sony PSP

post #1 of 93
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In contrast to all the "iPod-killers" imagined by Apple's competitors, new research quantifies just how much Apple's iOS platform has done to actually displace standalone gaming devices like the Nintendo DS and Sony PSP.

According to a new report by Interpret, mobile phones now make up 43.8 percent of the mobile gaming market, which includes Nintendo's DS and Sony's PSP lines of handheld devices.

While the proportion of games played on phones has increased by 53.2 percent over the last year, the number played on the DS and PSP have actually fallen by 13 percent.

The firm noted that "a full 27.2% of consumers who indicate that they play games on their phones only (and not on the DS/PSP) actually own a DS or PSP, but do not actively use the device(s)."

Courtney Johnson, a research and analysis manager at Interpret, added that "the proliferation of highly multifunctional smartphones and messaging phones is a very real threat to the dominance by the DS and PSP of the handheld gaming market. Devices which satisfy a variety of entertainment and utility are fast outstripping single-function devices as consumer favorites."

Adapting to a changing market

Prior to the appearance of the iPhone, Apple faced similar threats to its iPod lineup at the hands of smartphones, which analysts predicted would eat into iPod sales by offering MP3 features that made standalone players obsolete. However, the iPhone and iPod touch helped Apple to maintain its position with the iPod while leveraging its existing economies of scale to successfully enter the smartphone market.

Additionally, Apple's release of an open Software Development Kit for iPhone in 2008 helped create an entirely new market for paid downloadable apps, one that hadn't ever really taken off for previous mobile platforms before.

By that time, the hardware of the late 2004 Nintendo DS and Sony PSP were already being challenged by the new iPhone. By the end of 2008, gaming legend Jon Carmack of id Software went on record as saying the iPhone was "more powerful than a Nintendo DS and PSP combined," and praised Apple's App Store revenue sharing model in the App Store.

Since then, smartphones have advanced significantly in processor and graphics capabilities while Nintendo has largely only offered a bigger DS screen and Sony has done little to advance the PSP. Both Nintendo and Sony have also made only the barest of attempts to push downloadable games, likely out of fear of disrupting the highly lucrative market for licensing third party titles.

Bleak future for PSP2, 3DS

Sony is rumored to be readying a PSP2 as a successor to the existing PSP toward the end of 2011, and Sony Ericsson is also working to create an Android phone cable of playing PSP games, expected in February 2011.

Nintendo has released subtle improvements to the DS line, but will be launching its first major upgrade in the spring of 2011 under then name 3DS, featuring games with 3D screen effects that don't require glasses, 3G mobile connectivity, an accelerometer and GPS features.

Apple's iPhone 4 and iPod touch already deliver a host of gaming related hardware features, including a gyroscope and a high resolution Retina Display. Unlike the DS and PSP line, Apple's iOS also features strong web browsing and productivity apps, a high quality mobile camera with video capture and editing and FaceTime video chat, and other software titles that move well beyond gaming (in addition to the iPhone working as a phone).

iOS cracks open mobile gaming

Michael Pachter, an analyst at Wedbush Morgan Securities, recently stated that mobile games were "approaching saturation on the handheld market. Were starting to see DS hardware sales crack," he said.

"I think the big woody of the iPod Touch is cutting into the handheld market, I think the PSP is dead on arrival and I think the PSP2 is going to be dead on arrival. It looks to me like young kids are just as happy playing with an iPod Touch or a Nano.

Pachter asked, whats the difference if you play Tetris on an iPod Touch or on a DS? Well, you pay a buck on the iPod Touch, you pay $20 on the DS. Parents prefer $1 or free software. I think the iPod Touch is going to sell really, really well. I really think as the iPod Touch gets more and more powerful, youre going to see a lot of free games over there."

Pachter predicted that Nintendo's forthcoming 3DS "will prolong the handheld market for the game manufacturers, but ultimately, I think handhelds are in trouble. After the 3DS has had its little rush I think the handhelds will continue to decline.

The top titles for Nintendo's DS are primarily first party games created by Nintendo. If the market for standalone handheld game hardware collapses at the foot of smartphones and the iPod touch, Nintendo may find itself in the position of Sega after the failure of the Dreamcast console.

Sega gave up on building hardware and began creating games for existing platforms, including some of the first games for Apple's iOS.
post #2 of 93
Sega gets it!
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #3 of 93
If the article is correct and people prefer to use their mobile phones for games over any other device, does that mean that the iPhone will eventually kill off the iPod Touch?
post #4 of 93
Requisite snarling about real gamers vs. casual gamers, just to get it out of the way.
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post #5 of 93
Don't let my son read this article; he's getting a DSi for Christmas All of his little buddies have them too, so don't let them read this article either!

I think there's still a market for the DS, if not for the PSP. Frankly I can't imagine buying a PSP, not at the price Sony charges, and certainly not for a younger child. The DS is cheap and durable enough for my six year-old. The PSP is not. And for the older people (like myself) for whom the PSP makes sense, the Touch simply makes more sense...
post #6 of 93
This article is trash.
But I will say that Sony has been dragging its a** so they could prolong their minor tweek per 5 year business model.lol.
The psp should already be able to do the web like the touch, have at least a half a gig of effing ram. Duall sticks? I could do without that.
As for Nintendo. Whatever.
post #7 of 93
So when's Zelda, Mario, Samus or anything else worth playing coming to the ipod touch?

Closed markets Daniel, cuts both ways.

How's that Kinect doing by the way Daniel?
post #8 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by djames4242 View Post

Don't let my son read this article; he's getting a DSi for Christmas

Why? The 3DS will be out rather soon. Glasses-free 3D is fricking awesome.
post #9 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

If the article is correct and people prefer to use their mobile phones for games over any other device, does that mean that the iPhone will eventually kill off the iPod Touch?

They are techincally the same thing other than one has a phone and one doesn't...so I don't believe they will. I think they meant to say mobile device.
post #10 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

If the article is correct and people prefer to use their mobile phones for games over any other device, does that mean that the iPhone will eventually kill off the iPod Touch?

I would imagine that as the iPhone gets on more carriers here, and in the rest of the world, it will eat into the Touch sales more. A lot of people buy the Touch because they can't get an iPhone on their carrier. Once that's no longer the case....
post #11 of 93
Nintendo needs to face the music and port all their propietary games to IOS devices. That would be amazing and I am sure they would make a killing.
post #12 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

This article is trash.
But I will say that Sony has been dragging its a** so they could prolong their minor tweek per 5 year business model.lol.
The psp should already be able to do the web like the touch, have at least a half a gig of effing ram. Duall sticks? I could do without that.
As for Nintendo. Whatever.

Why is it trash? Facts are facts.
post #13 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

So when's Zelda, Mario, Samus or anything else worth playing coming to the ipod touch?

Closed markets Daniel, cuts both ways.

How's that Kinect doing by the way Daniel?

I like that you remain true to yourself, always overlooking the reality. I assume you're a big gamer?
post #14 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

This article is trash.
But I will say that Sony has been dragging its a** so they could prolong their minor tweek per 5 year business model.lol.
The psp should already be able to do the web like the touch, have at least a half a gig of effing ram. Duall sticks? I could do without that.
As for Nintendo. Whatever.

Why? If the statistics are accurate, they're accurate, and that's that.

I'm certainly represented in them. I used to love playing my Nintendo DS and I also played my Sony PSP from time to time. Once the App Store came along the time I spent with those devices ramped down quite rapidly. When the 'R' button on my DS broke I didn't replace it. Today both are in boxes, somewhere, and I haven't been tempted to dig them out aside from occasionally wondering if there's a new Castlevania out there. I used to keep a close eye on this stuff.

The best part? I actually enjoy the more professional games on these platforms. I often wish that those nice games on my iPhone or iPad (e.g. Galaxy on Fire 2) would have gone just that little extra distance to bridge that gap. But this difference hasn't been enough to motivate me to dig out those old systems. Instead I'm just mining astroids and cutting ropes.
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post #15 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Why? The 3DS will be out rather soon. Glasses-free 3D is fricking awesome.

It's inconsistent. That's why they have a slider on the unit to allow you to adjust the effect down to zero. Of course, this is the first generation of the product. If it sells well enough, there should be a better second. But it's pretty expensive, so that will limit sales after the fanboys, and girls buy it.

Added price: $298 in Japan. That the cost of the 32GB iPod Touch.
post #16 of 93
That's the thing. A DS is still the best for young kids. iPod Touches are too fragile and expensive compared to a nice simple DS.

My kids have iPod Touches - but they are near teens.
post #17 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Why is it trash? Facts are facts.

Facts, when it comes to sales, are rarely just that. They can very easily be distorted and mis-represented.

In this case, attributing the sales decline of the PSP and DS strictly because of the iPhone/Touch is beyond ridiculous. Both systems are reaching their saturation points, and this sales decline is not only completely natural at this point in their life-cycles, but also completely predictable, as previous console/handheld generations have shown time and time again.
post #18 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It's inconsistent. That's why they have a slider on the unit to allow you to adjust the effect down to zero. Of course, this is the first generation of the product. If it sells well enough, there should be a better second. But it's pretty expensive, so that will limit sales after the fanboys, and girls buy it.

Inconsistent? In what way?

The slider exists solely for those who have trouble perceiving a 3D image--future technology, short of holograms, will not fix this.
post #19 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Why is it trash? Facts are facts.

Figures don't lie, liars figure. I'm sure you heard that one before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I like that you remain true to yourself, always overlooking the reality. I assume you're a big gamer?


Right, just as that point of closed platforms just went over your head as well.

I don't own a DS or an ipod, but just as Apple uses software to sell hardware, Nintendo uses their own first person titles to sell their hardware.
post #20 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarchetta View Post

Facts, when it comes to sales, are rarely just that. They can very easily be distorted and mis-represented.

In this case, attributing the sales decline of the PSP and DS strictly because of the iPhone/Touch is beyond ridiculous. Both systems are reaching their saturation points, and this sales decline is not only completely natural at this point in their life-cycles, but also completely predictable, as previous console/handheld generations have shown time and time again.

Sure seem to be a lot of devices that just coincidentally are reaching some natural point of decline just as iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad sales ramp up.
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post #21 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

So when's Zelda, Mario, Samus or anything else worth playing coming to the ipod touch?

Closed markets Daniel, cuts both ways.

How's that Kinect doing by the way Daniel?

What does the Kinect have to do with anything? Is MS going to port it to WP7 somehow?
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post #22 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Sure seem to be a lot of devices that just coincidentally are reaching some natural point of decline just as iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad sales ramp up.

This is so full of hyperbole. The iPhone's sales have been 'ramping up' steadily since its release. Claiming they are just starting to "ramp up" is an out-right fabrication, and can only be based on some arbitrary number that can only seem meaningful in hindsight.

The DS and PSP, on the other hand, are essentially 6 year old platforms. Sales are declining just as they did for other systems long before the iPhone and Touch era. The handheld systems also don't have the benefit of being on a near-automatic 2-year upgrade cycle, such as the iPhone, which also mis-represents sales data comparatively. Many people who bought the original versions of the DS and Lite are still using theirs--I very much doubt that's the case for iPhone v.1 and very soon the 3G.
post #23 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

If the article is correct and people prefer to use their mobile phones for games over any other device, does that mean that the iPhone will eventually kill off the iPod Touch?

Nope, the iPhone and iPod touch have different demographics.

iPod touch users are heavily skewed toward a younger audience, the 13-24 age group. iPhone users are the 25-49 age group. As Steve Jobs mentioned once, "the iPod touch is training wheels for the iPhone."

As long as there are youngsters who can't afford to shell out $80 a month for cellular services, there will be a market for an iPod touch-like device. As we know, the world population is growing, so that market is in expansion.
post #24 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

What does the Kinect have to do with anything? Is MS going to port it to WP7 somehow?

Not a roughly drafted reader? Not used to Daniel trash talking everything non-apple and being wrong about it, several times I might add? Contrary to what he thinks?
post #25 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwoot27 View Post

Nintendo needs to face the music and port all their propietary games to IOS devices. That would be amazing and I am sure they would make a killing.

Very astute!

Just as MS should release Office for the iPad!

... make money, learn the ropes -- live to fight another day.
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post #26 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Very astute!

Just as MS should release Office for the iPad!

... make money, learn the ropes -- live to fight another day.

Yeah, and OSX and iOS should be allowed to be on other OEM computers as well.

Oh wait...
post #27 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I would imagine that as the iPhone gets on more carriers here, and in the rest of the world, it will eat into the Touch sales more. A lot of people buy the Touch because they can't get an iPhone on their carrier. Once that's no longer the case....

The Day Apple release a 64GB iPhone is the day I relinquish my 64GB Touch.

I guess I'll be holding onto my Touch for quite some time...

Having said that I'm down to just 1.5GB of free space on my Touch!

Capacity is my main reason for not getting an iPhone.
post #28 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

Yeah, and OSX and iOS should be allowed to be on other OEM computers as well.

Oh wait...

Why, OS X and iOS sells Apple hardware an an increasing rate -- Apple is in Fat City!.

The dedicated portable game players are in decline -- they need to do something.

As to MS Office: Sooner or later MS will need to implement a version of office to run with a non-stylus multitouch interface on a Tablet computer running a Tablet OS.

MS could get ahead of the curve if it did an iPad version... or just cede that market to Pages, Numbers, Keynote and others.

Some predict that there will be 50-100 million Tablet devices sold next year -- pretty good market potential.
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post #29 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Why, OS X and iOS sells Apple hardware an an increasing rate -- Apple is in Fat City!.

The dedicated portable game players are in decline -- they need to do something.

Exactly, and giving away your only reason for buying Nintendo hardware isn't going to help.

But as already said, just about everyone bought a DS. It isn't as if they didn't sell millions of them already. And this is a device that looks dated compared to the CPU in the original iphone. We know the 3DS is coming out, so people are going to wait, just as they wait for another iphone.

Daniel says this about everything, as if Apple will take over the whole world or something. Oh wait, they did with the ipod.
post #30 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by downdinoiling View Post

The Day Apple release a 64GB iPhone is the day I relinquish my 64GB Touch.

I guess I'll be holding onto my Touch for quite some time...

Having said that I'm down to just 1.5GB of free space on my Touch!

Capacity is my main reason for not getting an iPhone.

What do you use that much storage for?

My iPad Mem Map is a s folows"

05.2 GB Audio -- 1009 songs
28.2 GB Video -- 63 Movies (including Home Movies)
00.9 GB Photos -- 216 Photos
09.7 GB Apps -- 345 Apps
00.2 GB Books -- 78 Books
00.5 GB Other
14.6 GB Free

Periodically, I change the mixture of Photos, Audio and video (Library of 10,000 songs, 900 videos, and 12,000 photos).

.

.
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post #31 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

What do you use that much storage for?

My iPad Mem Map is a s folows"

05.2 GB Audio -- 1009 songs
28.2 GB Video -- 63 Movies (including Home Movies)
00.9 GB Photos -- 216 Photos
09.7 GB Apps -- 345 Apps
00.2 GB Books -- 78 Books
00.5 GB Other
14.6 GB Free

Periodically, I change the mixture of Photos, Audio and video (Library of 10,000 songs, 900 videos, and 12,000 photos).

.

.

My older brother is waiting for a 64GB iPhone. I asked him why does he need all that memory for? He responded "I want to carry all of my music on the go." Personally I think 32GB is enough for me.
post #32 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

Exactly, and giving away your only reason for buying Nintendo hardware isn't going to help.

But as already said, just about everyone bought a DS. It isn't as if they didn't sell millions of them already. And this is a device that looks dated compared to the CPU in the original iphone. We know the 3DS is coming out, so people are going to wait, just as they wait for another iphone.

Daniel says this about everything, as if Apple will take over the whole world or something. Oh wait, they did with the ipod.


They wouldn't be giving it away -- they'd be selling the games (likely lower price, higher volume, and greater net profit).

Here's the deal:

-- You can buy an iPod Touch or a hand-me-down iPhone for the same price as a dedicated mobile game player
-- There are thousands of games to choose from
-- You can buy 10-30 good games for the same price as a single mobile player game
-- You can put these on 5 devices concurrently

Each year, as I replaced an iPhone, I offered a grandkid either a (then popular) mobile game player and 3 games ($100); or the old iPhone and 30 games (<$60).

Each of my 3 grandkids opted for the iPhone -- they have hundreds of games and thousands of choices.
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post #33 of 93
RAGE HD is good example on how gaming on the iPhone will be in the future. Personally, I enjoy gaming with physical buttons. It's just better playing with physical buttons in my opinion. That's where Sony PSP and the Nintendo DS beats the iPod Touch in that area of gaming.
post #34 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Here's the deal:

--You can buy an iPod Touch or a hand-me-down iPhone for the same price as a dedicated mobile game player
-- There are thousands of games to choose from
-- You can buy 10-30 good games for the same price as a single mobile player game
-- You can put these on 5 devices concurrently

Each year, as I replaced an iPhone, I offered a grandkid either a (then popular) mobile game and 3 games ($100) player or the old iPhone and 30 games (<$60).

Each of my 3 grandkids opted for the iPhone -- they have hundreds of games and thousands of choices.

But those thousands of games are all shit. This is from someone who was disappointed by the selection when playing around with my Dad's 32GB ipod touch (which I did recommend he get btw).

Granted, I like it for bejewled, but that's just me. It is quite lame that my other favorite Alchemy wasn't available for it.

IF and only if Apple decides to allow VLC for the ipod touch, THEN I might consider. I have too much media in other formats. Not ready for an ipad until I consider the competition and what I actually need/want in a mobile device
post #35 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

But those thousands of games are all shit. This is from someone who was disappointed by the selection when playing around with my Dad's 32GB ipod touch (which I did recommend he get btw).

Granted, I like it for bejewled, but that's just me. It is quite lame that my other favorite Alchemy wasn't available for it.

IF and only if Apple decides to allow VLC for the ipod touch, THEN I might consider. I have too much media in other formats. Not ready for an ipad until I consider the competition and what I actually need/want in a mobile device

There's already a VLC media player app in the app store. Search VLC in the APP Store and it should be by Applidium. But it's only for video files only.
post #36 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgl323 View Post

There's already a VLC media player app in the app store. Search VLC in the APP Store and it should be by Applidium. But it's only for video files only.

ipod touch or for ipad? last I heard it was for the ipad only.
post #37 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

The dedicated portable game players are in decline -- they need to do something.

Uh, they are. Have you not heard of the 3DS and PSP 2?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

They wouldn't be giving it away -- they'd be selling the games (likely lower price, higher volume, and greater net profit).

Greater net profit? Unless you know something Nintendo doesn't, this is extremely unlikely.

Nintendo sells their current games at a much higher price than virtually anything on the app store, and doesn't have to share their profits with anyone but themselves. They also don't worry about competing with $1-$5 apps with can steal both mind share and virtual real estate.

Nintendo also makes a profit off every hardware unit sold, just as Apple does. The DS and Wii are currently the best selling and second best sellings systems of their respective market ever.

Yes, Nintendo is in dire need of relegating itself to Apple's buttonless ecosystem.
post #38 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

What does the Kinect have to do with anything? Is MS going to port it to WP7 somehow?

The point he was making is that all of these reports are highly flexible, and often wrong. So, Daniel predicted that the Kinect was going to be a complete and utter flop, based on his research. Turns out it sold exceptionally well.

A second example, a report over at MacRumors, indicated that Apple's share of the mobile advertising market down from 20 some percent (tied with Google) to under 10% because they "miscalculated" the size of the market.

As a third example, there was a large thread about the differences between Gartner's and IDC's estimates of the mobile market, and Apple's and Android's relative shares of those markets.

So all of these surveys, etc. need to be taken with a large grain of salt.
post #39 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

ipod touch or for ipad? last I heard it was for the ipad only.

Both.
post #40 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

Not a roughly drafted reader? Not used to Daniel trash talking everything non-apple and being wrong about it, several times I might add? ...blah blah...

He's usually right. Re-read his articles, and maybe you'll get it.

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