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Apple disabled jailbreak detection API in iOS 4.2

post #1 of 80
Thread Starter 
Less than six months after introducing it, Apple has quietly disabled its jailbreak detection API through the iOS 4.2 software update, according to a new report.

Network World reports that the API, which was released in June as part of a mobile device management (MDM) bundle for iOS 4.0, has been disabled in iOS 4.2, leaving perplexed vendors to question why. The API had previously allowed third-party MDM applications, such as AirWatch or Sybase's Afaria, to check for unauthorized modifications to the system files, author John Cox wrote.

Third-party MDM vendors had created their own utilities to check for jailbreaks, but Apple's jailbreak detection API granted MDM applications direct access to iOS system information.

"We used it when it was available, but as an adjunct," said Sybase vice president of engineering Joe Owen. "I'm not sure what motivated their removing that....I've not had anyone [at enterprise customer sites] talk to me about this API being present or being removed."

Though jailbreaking an Apple device voids its warranty, the U.S. government recently legalized the process through a handful of exemptions to preexisting laws forbidding it.

Apple has been an unwilling participant in a 'cat and mouse' game with hackers. As vulnerabilities are discovered and exploited by the hacking community, Apple rushes to patch the issues, while hackers secretly move on to the next flaw.

In August, hackers released a high publicity browser-based jailbreak for the iPhone 4 that drew attention to a glaring security flaw that could have exposed users to malicious software just by visiting website.

As hackers became aware of the jailbreak detection API, they may have begun circumventing it, adding another layer to the tug-of-war between jailbreakers and Apple.

"Whatever [Apple] adds [in the OS] to detect the jailbreak, if it is to be queried from the iOS kernel, it must be accessible and have the ability to be changed," security consultant Jeremy Allen told Cox. "Meaning, if it is going to be a useful detection method it can also be circumvented. It is a fairly intractable problem to solve 100%."

The use of jailbreaking to pirate App Store software has been a major concern for Apple and developers. Also at stake is Apple's relationship with carriers, who often sell iPhones locked to their networks. In the U.S., for instance, the iPhone is only available through AT&T, though Verizon is expected to begin selling the iPhone early next year. Users looking to use their locked iPhones on other carriers often jailbreak and unlock their handsets.
post #2 of 80
Quote:
Also at stake is Apple's relationship with carriers, who often sell iPhones locked to their networks.

Will there ever be an article where the writer understands that jailbreaking is not the same as unlocking?
post #3 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by dak splunder View Post

Will there ever be an article where the writer understands that jailbreaking is not the same as unlocking?

I understand it. If it's not clear enough, I'll make some changes though.
post #4 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by dak splunder View Post

Will there ever be an article where the writer understands that jailbreaking is not the same as unlocking?

When you figure out how to unlock a phone without a jailbreak, I'm sure some folks would like to know.
post #5 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshong View Post

I understand it. If it's not clear enough, I'll make some changes though.

Cool... because in that last paragraph you imply that jailbreaking allows users to switch to other carriers
post #6 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Yohe View Post

When you figure out how to unlock a phone without a jailbreak, I'm sure some folks would like to know.

Hmmm, I don't know. I do know that when I jailbroke my phone it was still locked to AT&T.
post #7 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Yohe View Post

When you figure out how to unlock a phone without a jailbreak, I'm sure some folks would like to know.

Buy it in Australia, like my unlocked, unjailbroken iphone.

Shouldn't the proper term be rooted?

Gaining access to root in order to install a customised ROM, like Android and other handsets as it involves similar processes.
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post #8 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The use of jailbreaking to pirate App Store software has been a major concern for Apple and developers.


Jailbreaking is a bigger threat to iOS developers than anything else, even Android.
post #9 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by enohpI View Post

Jailbreaking is a bigger threat to iOS developers than anything else, even Android.

Yes, but most of us that Jailbreak do not hack app store apps. I pay for what I use. Plain and simple. I do not want another PSP where no one wants to create apps for it. Right now my biggest reason for Jailbreaking has become my AppleTV. Only streaming my iPod videos is not what I bought my aTV 2.0 for.
post #10 of 80
Greetings from atop my volcano in central america. There is no one else here so I claim it for myself. Apple should not be concerned with jail breaking as they have now achieved critical mass. Like God Mode on Windows, nobody cares outside of a few geeks so... be and let be, no harm no foul, onwards and upwards, they have bigger fish to fry, frankly my dear I don't give a damn. Wow you should see the view from here - that is as soon as the sun comes up.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #11 of 80
Evidence please? Jailbreaking is Apple's and it's developers friend. When Apple goofed and offered it's first phone for over $500, it was jailbreaking that helped the phone fly off the shelves. Millions were bought specifically to jailbreak. That assisted in creating a huge market for ios applications.

Now jailbreaking is making Apple money through its App store. For instance, this week alone I have spent twenty dollars on various applications. I am on T-Moble through a jailbroken unlocked phone. I wouldn't be making those purchases if AT&T was my only option. Go on EBay and Craiglst. There is a huge market for unlocked phones.

Stealing applications through Apple's store isn't as easy as some sites make it seem. I am pretty tech savvy and I have no clue how to do it. Further, even if I did and I wanted to steal should applications I would be fearful that my actions would be traceable. Not risking the trouble I would be if caught for a dollar application.

Quote:
Originally Posted by enohpI View Post

Jailbreaking is a bigger threat to iOS developers than anything else, even Android.
post #12 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by enohpI View Post

Jailbreaking is a bigger threat to iOS developers than anything else, even Android.

That is what they want you to believe but it's horse pucky. Very few jailbreakers install pirated software.
1) It's difficult to hack the app signing.
2) It's not worth it; most apps are just $1.
3) We actually buy MORE software like tethering apps and other hacks thru Cydia.

So please stop with this "Jailbreaking will kill the iOS app market" junk. Please?
post #13 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Evidence please? Jailbreaking is Apple's and it's developers friend. When Apple goofed and offered it's first phone for over $500, it was jailbreaking that helped the phone fly off the shelves. Millions were bought specifically to jailbreak. That assisted in creating a huge market for ios applications.

Now jailbreaking is making Apple money through its App store. For instance, this week alone I have spent twenty dollars on various applications. I am on T-Moble through a jailbroken unlocked phone. I wouldn't be making those purchases if AT&T was my only option. Go on EBay and Craiglst. There is a huge market for unlocked phones.

Stealing applications through Apple's store isn't as easy as some sites make it seem. I am pretty tech savvy and I have no clue how to do it. Further, even if I did and I wanted to steal should applications I would be fearful that my actions would be traceable. Not risking the trouble I would be if caught for a dollar application.

1) He is an old troll with a new handle so I wouldnt assume his post is sincere.

2) Ive spent about $50 in the last couple months on apps from Cydia in the last couple months, and have only spent 99¢ on an iPad app, Atomic Browser, in that time frame.

3) All apps on my jailbroken iPhone are paid for, if the developer requests it. I cant say its as stable or without issue from time-to-time and the method to update an app isnt as clean as for App Store apps, but, for me, the pros certainly outstrip the cons.

4) I cant wait for the untethered version of 4.2.1 to drop. Apparently it was figured out without wasting an iOS exploit. I wonder how many the dev teams are sitting on for a rain day.
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post #14 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

That is what they want you to believe but it's horse pucky. Very few jailbreakers install pirated software.
1) It's difficult to hack the app signing.
2) It's not worth it; most apps are just $1.
3) We actually buy MORE software like tethering apps and other hacks thru Cydia.

So please stop with this "Jailbreaking will kill the iOS app market" junk. Please?

Re: point 1
It's very easy. Just install a patch from Cydia and you can bypass all DRM limitations I.e. To install all unsigned or cracked IPAs. App piracy is a major problem in developing markets although not in the US.
post #15 of 80
Apple does not care about jailbreaking, it still gets the money for the hardware, and release them of any warranty obligations. What's not to like?
On the other hand, most people who jailbreak their iPhones are either morons or geeks (same thing).
post #16 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) He is an old troll with a new handle so I wouldnt assume his post is sincere.

It is hard to deny that many jailbreakers do steal apps. It can be a real problem for a developer selling low volume apps at reasonable prices.
Quote:

2) Ive spent about $50 in the last couple months on apps from Cydia in the last couple months, and have only spent 99¢ on an iPad app, Atomic Browser, in that time frame.

I've not jailbroken my iPhone yet so all apps come from app store. I'm not dead set against Jailbreaking though, but at the moment iPhone is the only iOS device I have so no jailbreak for me. Even then I'd need a compelling reason to do so.
Quote:
3) All apps on my jailbroken iPhone are paid for, if the developer requests it. I cant say its as stable or without issue from time-to-time and the method to update an app isnt as clean as for App Store apps, but, for me, the pros certainly outstrip the cons.

Let me tell you about my 3G running iOS 4.0. Talk about unstable! Anyone, Apple included, can pull a boner when developing software so I would not focus to heavily on the Jailbreak or the apps. One reason I resist jailbreaking is the issue of support for my iPhone if I should need to get it serviced fast. Frankly iPhone is the only phone I have of any type so I don't want a hassle if I need to upgrade, repair or whatever real quick.
Quote:
4) I cant wait for the untethered version of 4.2.1 to drop. Apparently it was figured out without wasting an iOS exploit. I wonder how many the dev teams are sitting on for a rain day.

Actually I'm waiting on a clean AppleTV jailbreak. For $99 you get a really low power but high performance little network node. The potential is extreme for AppleTV. More importantly if it goes down for a dAy or two no big deal. I wouldn't be surprised if the Jailbreak community becomes as big as all of the rest of the iOS devices.
post #17 of 80
Dammnit I want an *untethered* jailbreak for 4.2.1
post #18 of 80
I would say it is neither hard to deny or admit. There simply is no evidence either way other then a few stories on the Internet suggesting such theft is possible. It seems to be implied that because it is possible to steal the applications that it is a wide spread problem. It isn't like finding software for a Mac or PC online. That is pretty easy, and moreover, the software for computers is expensive. For the iPhone, most software both from Cydia and the application store is reasonably priced. I mean come on Rage HD was a buck.

I have jail broken my phone, and I also get all my applications from the Apple Store. Yet, it i nice knowing a have an alternative through Cydia if Apple's PG rated mind tells me I can't have an application I really want.

As far as service goes, if you know what you are doing you can fully restore your jailbroken phone to factory state if needed. Though you have to be real careful that you know what you are doing or you could have problems restoring the phone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

It is hard to deny that many jailbreakers do steal apps. It can be a real problem for a developer selling low volume apps at reasonable prices.

I've not jailbroken my iPhone yet so all apps come from app store. I'm not dead set against Jailbreaking though, but at the moment iPhone is the only iOS device I have so no jailbreak for me. Even then I'd need a compelling reason to do so.

Let me tell you about my 3G running iOS 4.0. Talk about unstable! Anyone, Apple included, can pull a boner when developing software so I would not focus to heavily on the Jailbreak or the apps. One reason I resist jailbreaking is the issue of support for my iPhone if I should need to get it serviced fast. Frankly iPhone is the only phone I have of any type so I don't want a hassle if I need to upgrade, repair or whatever real quick.


Actually I'm waiting on a clean AppleTV jailbreak. For $99 you get a really low power but high performance little network node. The potential is extreme for AppleTV. More importantly if it goes down for a dAy or two no big deal. I wouldn't be surprised if the Jailbreak community becomes as big as all of the rest of the iOS devices.
post #19 of 80
I save $50 a month on my unlocked iPhone by using T-Mobile which 1) has better rate plans, and 2) doesn't require me to have an expensive data plan. That is over a five hundred dollar a year savings. I am neither a geek or moron, I am just cheap and like T-Mobile better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iax View Post

Apple does not care about jailbreaking, it still gets the money for the hardware, and release them of any warranty obligations. What's not to like?
On the other hand, most people who jailbreak their iPhones are either morons or geeks (same thing).
post #20 of 80
I am still on 4.0. I figured if everything was working great I wasn't going to mess with anything until I could upgrade to 4.2 safely. Apparently, I can upgrade to 4.2 right now and have an untethered jailbreak because I have the old boot rom on my 3GS. My understanding though is I need to hold off on upgrading because I unlocked the phone with ultrasnow and my unlock would be at risk. I am waiting semi-patiently for one of the dev team geniuses out there to give me a thumbs up.



Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

4) I cant wait for the untethered version of 4.2.1 to drop. Apparently it was figured out without wasting an iOS exploit. I wonder how many the dev teams are sitting on for a rain day.
post #21 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Evidence please? ....Millions were bought specifically to jailbreak....

Evidence please?

I find it very hard to believe that "millions" of the original iPhone were sold specifically to jailbreak. I even find it hard to believe that "millions" of all iPhones ever sold have been jailbroken. Most people don't choose to do things that void their warranty.
post #22 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Though jailbreaking an Apple device voids its warranty, the U.S. government recently legalized the process through a handful of exemptions to preexisting laws forbidding it.

This is not entirely correct.

"To clarify, Apple does not deny all warranty service to an iPhone just because it has been jailbroken. For example, if a particular users iPhone were to have a hardware defect in materials or workmanship within the warranty period that was not caused by jailbreaking, Apple would provide warranty service to that phone, notwithstanding the fact that it had been jailbroken."

From Apple's response to the Copyright Office, page 13. Document (PDF) can be found here:

https://www.eff.org/files/filenode/d...of-6-23-09.pdf
post #23 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by iax View Post

Apple does not care about jailbreaking, it still gets the money for the hardware, and release them of any warranty obligations. What's not to like?
On the other hand, most people who jailbreak their iPhones are either morons or geeks (same thing).

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Apple cares about jailbreaking because Steve Jobs wants to control the user experience. Jailbreaking allows the user to control the experience.

From a practical standpoint, Apple is not released from warranty obligations since the user can simply restore the iPhone to the original condition and return it for warranty work.

There are quite a few apps that have not been allowed into the App Store due to Apple restrictions. These Apps are on Cydia and available to users of jailbroken iPhones. The Cydia apps are similar to the App store since some are free and others are paid. The only difference is that Cydia allows apps that may be rejected by Apple. These apps are tested and safe. None will "brick" an iPhone.

People who do not jailbreak are like sheep who follow the doctrine set forth by Steve Jobs. People who jailbreak like to control their own destiny and experience.

Jailbeaking is legal. The government, for once, made a logical and appropriate ruling. As for stealing software, this is an act that a few people will do no matter what device they own. Microsoft had to institute their Genuine Microsoft Product Validation in an attempt to prevent people from stealing Windows software. iSerialBox published serial numbers for turning trial versions into full versions. And people will hack iPhone apps and steal them too. Fortunately, the percentage of people who steal software is low. There are 2 billion app store downloads. There is no lack of money for app developers and jailbreaking is not, in and of itself, a threat to developer revenue.

Personally, I like FaceTime. But I'm not always on WiFi. Apple does not allow me to use FaceTime unless I'm on a WiFi network. Why? Because AT&T doesn't have the capability to carry the data traffic if everyone were to use it. Well, I pay AT&T for data. Since I pay for what I use, why can't I use this data as I see fit? Jailbreak and 3G Unrestrictor allows me to use FaceTime whenever I want. I also seem to have gotten on a couple of telemarketer calling lists. I can't get them to take me off their list and the National Do Not Call Registry is useless. iBlacklist is a Cydia app that lets me block callers. Now instead of having to pay for a telemarketer's phone call with me minutes, I can block their number and not be bothered again. Why Apple would not allow this in the app store, I don't know. Unless AT&T wants me to receive these calls so they can charge me more and put pressure on Apple to prevent this app.

I'm not stealing apps, I'm not stealing from AT&T and I'm not letting Apple dictate my user experience.

So call me a moron if you wish, but for me, I'm having a much better iPhone user experience.
post #24 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by iax View Post

Apple does not care about jailbreaking, it still gets the money for the hardware, and release them of any warranty obligations. What's not to like?
On the other hand, most people who jailbreak their iPhones are either morons or geeks (same thing).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

Evidence please?

I find it very hard to believe that "millions" of the original iPhone were sold specifically to jailbreak. I even find it hard to believe that "millions" of all iPhones ever sold have been jailbroken. Most people don't choose to do things that void their warranty.

You can check with Saurik (Cydia developer). SHSH hashes are saved on his servers for most all jailbroken iPhones. SHSH are unique to specific devices. If SHSH hashes are on file with Cydia, then the device has most likely been jailbroken. Numbers are indeed available. According to Saurik, 10% of iPhones are jailbroken.
post #25 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

I save $50 a month on my unlocked iPhone by using T-Mobile which 1) has better rate plans, and 2) doesn't require me to have an expensive data plan. That is over a five hundred dollar a year savings. I am neither a geek or moron, I am just cheap and like T-Mobile better.

Good for you! I'm still with AT&T, but according to a very recent survey, AT&T rates at the very bottom of the list for customer satisfaction. I applaud you for jailbreaking, unlocking and going with T-Mobile. You've got a great phone with a better carrier.
post #26 of 80
edit: Pipped by Cinemagic with a better solution.
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post #27 of 80
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Originally Posted by Cinemagic View Post

Good for you! I'm still with AT&T, but according to a very recent survey, AT&T rates at the very bottom of the list for customer satisfaction. I applaud you for jailbreaking, unlocking and going with T-Mobile. You've got a great phone with a better carrier.

I cant agree with T-Mobile with an iPhone being the better choice (speaking only of my situation, of course). Since EDGE data is the best I could get on T-Mobile its a non-starter for me at this point. I get several Mbps on average, both up and down, with AT&T, and there is only a couple hundred feet on one highway that I drive that I ever experience an issue with their service.

On top of that, Apples iPhone call center in the US for iPhone related issues/questions when you dial 611 has been great. It makes the few times I needed to call 611 very nice. I can even say AT&Ts call center training has improved greatly and havent had a bad experience from them in years.
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post #28 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

I save $50 a month on my unlocked iPhone by using T-Mobile which 1) has better rate plans, and 2) doesn't require me to have an expensive data plan. That is over a five hundred dollar a year savings. I am neither a geek or moron, I am just cheap and like T-Mobile better.

I do the same and the savings is huge.

ATT
$90-1500 minute Plan
$30-Family Texting Plan
$20-Add two phones for children
$40-Adding one minimal and one 2 gig data plan
$180 month total

Tmobile
$80- 1500 minute talk and unlimited text plan
$10- Add two phones for children
$20- Two unlimited data plans for two off-contract iPhones
$110 month total

I'm saving $70 a month or $1680 over two years. Tmobile really is a good company. If Apple unlocked all prior iPhones Tmobile offers 200 megs of data for $10 a month and most people would never use more than that over EDGE. The concern shouldn't just be a mass exodus of users from AT&T to Verizon. There should also be a large concern over how many AT&T users who are off contract might take their already perfectly functioning iPhones and run them over to Tmobile if it ever became so easy to use them as to not require jailbreaking, unlocking and installation of certain hacks to enable picture messaging, push notifications, etc.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #29 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinemagic View Post

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Apple cares about jailbreaking because Steve Jobs wants to control the user experience. Jailbreaking allows the user to control the experience. ...

... People who do not jailbreak are like sheep who follow the doctrine set forth by Steve Jobs. People who jailbreak like to control their own destiny and experience.

... Apple does not allow me to use FaceTime unless I'm on a WiFi network. Why? Because AT&T doesn't have the capability to carry the data traffic if everyone were to use it. Well, I pay AT&T for data. Since I pay for what I use, why can't I use this data as I see fit? ...

It's clear from your comments that you are having some issues with your own emotions on this topic. It's always interesting to hear the reasoning of people who seem obsessed with "Steve Jobs controlling their experience." But the reason why you don't have full control of your phone without jailbreaking/rooting it (an issue with every phone out there, including purportedly "open" Android phones is twofold.

First, all carriers, not just AT&T, want to control bandwidth and service usage on their networks. One of the ways to do this is to control what applications are allowed to run on the device and what they are allowed to do. Apple has certain contractual obligations with AT&T to control that by controlling how apps get installed and what apps get installed. So, it's not "Steve Jobs" controlling your FaceTime usage", it's AT&T.

Second, it's necessary, to be able to implement required levels of enterprise security to "lock down" the "system" to a certain degree. If it's wide open, it's much more difficult to control what happens on the device. There are always going to be security issues on any system -- to anticipate invalid criticisms of this point -- but that doesn't mean you ought to intentionally create more. So, again, if Apple wants to be in that market, they need to offer a device with a certain level of control over what happens on it. Just think of how corporate IT departments lock down traditional computers, and the features that OS vendors must add to allow them to do so. Again, it's not "Steve Jobs" controlling your user experience," it's the realities of the marketplace.

A third benefit, and one that you are unwilling to acknowledge, seemingly for strong emotional reasons of your own, is that jailbreaking/rooting does in fact open the doors to wide-scale piracy. Whether any given individual pirates software or not, or what their intentions are, is irrelevant. The simple fact is that piracy is common among jailbreakers, and, in fact, is so common on Android that the developers can't realize revenue from their apps by selling them, but only by turning them into ad platforms -- a situation that surely warms hearts at Google, and is intended by them. Personally, I think it's well worth putting up with some restrictions on my phone so that I don't have to look at ads in every app I use. And, once again, it's not, "Steve Jobs" controlling your user experience," it's the realities of making a platform attractive for developers, and not completely overrun by ads for users.

I suggest you try to think about this topic with a little more reason and a little less emotion, and not worry so much about "the man".
post #30 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinemagic View Post

Personally, I like FaceTime. But I'm not always on WiFi. Apple does not allow me to use FaceTime unless I'm on a WiFi network. Why? Because AT&T doesn't have the capability to carry the data traffic if everyone were to use it. Well, I pay AT&T for data. Since I pay for what I use, why can't I use this data as I see fit? Jailbreak and 3G Unrestrictor allows me to use FaceTime whenever I want. I also seem to have gotten on a couple of telemarketer calling lists. I can't get them to take me off their list and the National Do Not Call Registry is useless. iBlacklist is a Cydia app that lets me block callers. Now instead of having to pay for a telemarketer's phone call with me minutes, I can block their number and not be bothered again. Why Apple would not allow this in the app store, I don't know. Unless AT&T wants me to receive these calls so they can charge me more and put pressure on Apple to prevent this app.

Youre destroying your own argument as you make it. You want to you your device as it suits your best interest. Well Apple is doing the exact same thing.

FaceTime worked fine for me over AT&Ts network when i tried it, but that isnt the same as saying that FaceTime will work fine for 10 million iPhone users on AT&T if they opened it up last June with the iOS 4.0 release. We can use the over saturation of users testing MobileMe as an example of what network congestion can do to a user experience and how that stigma can carry for years even though the issue only last for a few days for pretty much every user.

Doesnt Apple have a right to protect their business? Just because something it technically possible doesnt mean it should be done. Given the issues I still hear of people in congested cities I think Apple was right not to give a blanket release of FaceTime over cellular networks.

As you noted, you can use the data as you see fit, you just have to take an extra step because is conducting business the way they see fit. Why is that such an issue for people?
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post #31 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinemagic View Post

Fortunately, the percentage of people who steal software is low. There are 2 billion app store downloads. There is no lack of money for app developers and jailbreaking is not, in and of itself, a threat to developer revenue.

I don't know where you get your data to back up this assertion. For example, an article early this year at 24/7 Wall Street says:

While it is difficult to get a firm grasp on exact piracy rates, some developers have put features in their software that prompt it to phone home when the phone has been cracked. Developer testimonials put the figure much higher than many analysts would expect. Developers Neptune Interactive Inc and Smells Like Donkey Inc have reported piracy rates has high as 90% for their game $1.99 Tap-Fu, and claim that it was available in a pirated version within 40 minutes of its release on the App Store. Web Scout Inc. reports a 75% piracy rate for its $0.99 iCombat game. The developer of the $4.99 art program, Layers, reports a piracy rate of 75%, and Fish Labs reports 95% for its $7 Rally Master Pro 3D. Piracy rates almost certainly increase with the cost of an application. TomToms US & Canada GPS product for the iPhone, which retails for $79.99, ranks second in handheld application downloads on piratebay.com, a file-sharing torrent. The top 100 downloads listed at piratebay.com is littered with expensive TomTom and Garmin GPS products. A conservative estimate of the average piracy rate is that for every paid application developed and sold at the App Store 3 more are pirated.
post #32 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by NormM View Post

I don't know where you get your data to back up this assertion. For example, an article early this year at 24/7 Wall Street says:

While it is difficult to get a firm grasp on exact piracy rates, some developers have put features in their software that prompt it to phone home when the phone has been cracked. Developer testimonials put the figure much higher than many analysts would expect. Developers Neptune Interactive Inc and Smells Like Donkey Inc have reported piracy rates has high as 90% for their game $1.99 Tap-Fu, and claim that it was available in a pirated version within 40 minutes of its release on the App Store. Web Scout Inc. reports a 75% piracy rate for its $0.99 iCombat game. The developer of the $4.99 art program, Layers, reports a piracy rate of 75%, and Fish Labs reports 95% for its $7 Rally Master Pro 3D. Piracy rates almost certainly increase with the cost of an application. TomToms US & Canada GPS product for the iPhone, which retails for $79.99, ranks second in handheld application downloads on piratebay.com, a file-sharing torrent. The top 100 downloads listed at piratebay.com is littered with expensive TomTom and Garmin GPS products. A conservative estimate of the average piracy rate is that for every paid application developed and sold at the App Store 3 more are pirated.

I think devs should be pressuring Apple to allow native App Store trial periods. The App Store is a convenient, but having to shell out $50 to try TomTom for iOS is far outside the typical impulse buy range. When TomTom first came out I installed a crack version of it to test it. I didnt care for it since there was no backgrounding for it at the time so I deleted it. Now I have it (purchased from the App Store) and its great. If they allowed the trial I can see users just using the convenient App Store and then not bothering with finding a cracked copy if they like the app, or if they tested it as I did they may simply not delete the cracked version and buy it from the App Store as that, too, is inconvenient.

BiteSMS from the Cydia store has a nifty setup. The trial is fully functional and then switches to an ad supported version. That model wont work for every developer, but I think its a model that could work for enough users and allow a more streamlined process for app purchases and clean up the App Stores multiple full and Lite versions.
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post #33 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

The concern shouldn't just be a mass exodus of users from AT&T to Verizon. There should also be a large concern over how many AT&T users who are off contract might take their already perfectly functioning iPhones and run them over to Tmobile if it ever became so easy to use them as to not require jailbreaking, unlocking and installation of certain hacks to enable picture messaging, push notifications, etc.


...except in the US, AT&T isn't required to unlock out-of-contract iPhones. It's ridiculous: after you've spend one / two years on the carrier fulfilling the terms of your contract and paying back the handset subsidy, you are not allowed to use your device on any other network besides AT&T.

Contrast this to the situation in Europe, where most countries require telcos to unlock out-of-contract handsets on request of the customer. e.g. once you've finished up your two year contract on Orange, you can take your handset and slap in whatever SIM you want


Gotta love US corporate law
post #34 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwj View Post

...except in the US, AT&T isn't required to unlock out-of-contract iPhones. It's ridiculous: after you've spend one / two years on the carrier fulfilling the terms of your contract and paying back the handset subsidy, you are not allowed to use your device on any other network besides AT&T.

Contrast this to the situation in Europe, where most countries require telcos to unlock out-of-contract handsets on request of the customer. e.g. once you've finished up your two year contract on Orange, you can take your handset and slap in whatever SIM you want


Gotta love US corporate law

And they say that customers are "loyal" to their carriers. Duh! They have no other choice if they want to keep their phone.
post #35 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwj View Post

...except in the US, AT&T isn't required to unlock out-of-contract iPhones. It's ridiculous: after you've spend one / two years on the carrier fulfilling the terms of your contract and paying back the handset subsidy, you are not allowed to use your device on any other network besides AT&T.

While I think there should be legislation that requires a a phone to be unlockable upon request after the contract is fulfilled, I dont think its not allowed only that its not required as you initially state.
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post #36 of 80
...and other repositories of hacked (i.e. stolen) Apps.

I wish the "holier than thou" jailbreakers would cut the BULLSHIT!
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post #37 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

A repository of stolen Apps.

I wish the "holier than thou" jailbreakers would cut the BULLSHIT!

People often do steal apps. People often due a lot of illegal or immoral things, but that doesnt mean that it should be illegal or that stealing should be attributed to all jailbreakers and unlockers.

Having a web browser on any desktop OS means you can download cracked desktop apps, but I havent heard anyone cry foul on web browsers or the internet as a whole on these forums.
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post #38 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post

And they say that customers are "loyal" to their carriers. Duh! They have no other choice if they want to keep their phone.

How many Droids (eg Verizon phones) are being used on AT&T or T-Mo?
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post #39 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

How many Droids (eg Verizon phones) are being used on AT&T or T-Mo?

Zero.
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post #40 of 80
Good comparisons. I use the $69 a month family plan. That includes two lines with 700 shared minutes. Nights and weekends are free and it is a fav five plan so minutes are deducted from the five numbers I use the most. I do not need a data plan because I usually have access to wi-fi in public or at home.

The only time I really would like a data plan is for map functions. If I wanted to add that, as you point out that comes to ten or twenty dollars a month additional depending on whether I want it on both lines or not. Edge is fine for mapping and occasional Internet usage.

By me in Ann Arbor Michigan the only time I have ever experienced drop calls is with my friends using AT&T.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I do the same and the savings is huge.

ATT
$90-1500 minute Plan
$30-Family Texting Plan
$20-Add two phones for children
$40-Adding one minimal and one 2 gig data plan
$180 month total

Tmobile
$80- 1500 minute talk and unlimited text plan
$10- Add two phones for children
$20- Two unlimited data plans for two off-contract iPhones
$110 month total

I'm saving $70 a month or $1680 over two years. Tmobile really is a good company. If Apple unlocked all prior iPhones Tmobile offers 200 megs of data for $10 a month and most people would never use more than that over EDGE. The concern shouldn't just be a mass exodus of users from AT&T to Verizon. There should also be a large concern over how many AT&T users who are off contract might take their already perfectly functioning iPhones and run them over to Tmobile if it ever became so easy to use them as to not require jailbreaking, unlocking and installation of certain hacks to enable picture messaging, push notifications, etc.
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