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The latest spelling, grammar etc. debate

post #1 of 66
12/11/10 at 8:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habañero View Post

Another indicator that the "Flash is Dead" crowd is blowing hot air.

Varying degrees of browser support and mobile browser fragmentation make HTML 5 the same big bag of hurt for developers that every version before it has been.

Sorry Habanero, I try not to comment on grammar and punctuation mistakes, but this one has been annoying us lately. It's your name. "Habanero," the chili, doesn't have a tilde over the "n." The name comes from the city, Habana, Cuba, where the chili was first traded in quantity. It's common among English speakers to assume the tilde has been left off in error and so try to "put it back on."

We happen to like this chili a lot, by the way. It has a kind of heat and flavour different from all others we're familiar with. That's why I care where it comes from and what happens to the name. Thanks for considering.
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post #2 of 66
12/11/10 at 10:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Sorry Habanero, I try not to comment on grammar and punctuation mistakes, but this one has been annoying us lately. It's your name. "Habanero," the chili, doesn't have a tilda over the "n." The name comes from the city, Habana, Cuba, where the chili was first traded in quantity. It's common among English speakers to assume the tilda has been left off in error and so try to "put it back on."

THANK YOU Flaneur!
I was ready to comment on that exact thing.
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post #3 of 66
12/11/10 at 11:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by some internet dude View Post

Yea, the Galaxy tab sucks that's why it sold 1 million in a month and still going. Poor Apple fanboys there world is coming to an end. Hey Jobs "Android" LOL, I know that word scares him.

I just wasted my time looking at some internet dude's posting history, and noticed that he always uses "there" instead of "their." Of course, everyone can type the wrong word from time to time and it's no worse than a minor distraction, but when you do it every time it gets really irritating.

Also, the Tab sold a million in two months, though I don't suppose there's much value in pointing that out to such a poster. Really, I just can't take the misuse of the possessive adjective. I know, I know, it's rife on message boards, especially amongst trolls, but I'm afraid that someday it will become such a widespread mistake that no one remembers how to do it right. See also "could care less" instead of "couldn't care less" as well as using "begs the question" as to mean "suggests the question" rather than to refer specifically to the logical fallacy of assuming the truth of a proposition when arguing for it.

In conclusion, some internet dude, please stop destroying English. It's a wonderfully flexible, rich, and deep language, which I invite you to learn.
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post #4 of 66
12/11/10 at 11:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by artificialintel View Post

I just wasted my time looking at some internet dude's posting history, and noticed that he always uses "there" instead of "their." Of course, everyone can type the wrong word from time to time and it's no worse than a minor distraction, but when you do it every time it gets really irritating.

Also, the Tab sold a million in two months, though I don't suppose there's much value in pointing that out to such a poster. Really, I just can't take the misuse of the possessive adjective. I know, I know, it's rife on message boards, especially amongst trolls, but I'm afraid that someday it will become such a widespread mistake that no one remembers how to do it right. See also "could care less" instead of "couldn't care less" as well as using "begs the question" as to mean "suggests the question" rather than to refer specifically to the logical fallacy of assuming the truth of a proposition when arguing for it.

In conclusion, some internet dude, please stop destroying English. It's a wonderfully flexible, rich, and deep language, which I invite you to learn.

You know what? You understood exactly what he was saying and language is about communicating a point, so spare us the English lessons. It's irritating to see words misused, but why the hang ups?

Shakespeare would have really gotten up your nose had you been his contemporary.
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post #5 of 66
12/12/10 at 12:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsherly View Post

You know what? You understood exactly what he was saying and language is about communicating a point, so spare us the English lessons. It's irritating to see words misused, but why the hang ups?

Shakespeare would have really gotten up your nose had you been his contemporary.

I understand your position, but I acquit myself of simple liguistic pedantry in this case. The difference is that Shakespeare *expanded* the language. I'm not a person who has a problem with slang or alternate constructions. My problem is that persistent misuse of words and phrases can elide differences that used to allow different expression or signal useful information. If some internet guy had mixed and matched 'their' and 'there' I would have just thought, "Oh, well, he's sloppy," but that wasn't the case. He used 'there' every time. English would get measurably more confusing if the possessive adjective and the ordinary adjective were both spelled 'there.'. Likewise, I can't tell someone that 'I could care less' and have them understand that I could be less emotionally invested - instead they would take me to be saying the opposite. Even more distressing, I can't reliably use 'question-begging' to refer to its traditional referent in the minds of my interlocutors, and there really is no good substitute for it.

Add or even modify the language all you want, but please don't wash it away with false synonyms and unnecessary ambiguities.
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post #6 of 66
12/12/10 at 12:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by artificialintel View Post

I just wasted my time looking at some internet dude's posting history, and noticed that he always uses "there" instead of "their." Of course, everyone can type the wrong word from time to time and it's no worse than a minor distraction, but when you do it every time it gets really irritating.

Also, the Tab sold a million in two months, though I don't suppose there's much value in pointing that out to such a poster. Really, I just can't take the misuse of the possessive adjective. I know, I know, it's rife on message boards, especially amongst trolls, but I'm afraid that someday it will become such a widespread mistake that no one remembers how to do it right. See also "could care less" instead of "couldn't care less" as well as using "begs the question" as to mean "suggests the question" rather than to refer specifically to the logical fallacy of assuming the truth of a proposition when arguing for it.

In conclusion, some internet dude, please stop destroying English. It's a wonderfully flexible, rich, and deep language, which I invite you to learn.

If that sort of thing bothers you, turn off the computer and the television: there's this weird retardation virus that's taking over humanity and preventing anyone from remember how to spell or even pronounce "fewer", randomly substituting "less" instead.

It's everywhere.

Be careful out there.
"Surely it is possible to love Apple products and still respect what others have achieved?" - Stelligent
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"Surely it is possible to love Apple products and still respect what others have achieved?" - Stelligent
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post #7 of 66
12/12/10 at 12:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsherly View Post

You know what? You understood exactly what he was saying and language is about communicating a point, so spare us the English lessons. It's irritating to see words misused, but why the hang ups?

Shakespeare would have really gotten up your nose had you been his contemporary.

Yes language is about communicating, not deciphering.
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post #8 of 66
12/12/10 at 12:34am
Not to feed artificialintel's neuroses too much, but since you ranted about it:

"Their" is a possessive pronoun not a "possessive adjective." Adjectives describe nouns... And, yes, MacRulez, that "less" and "fewer" thing drives me nuts too. Sorry, couldn't help myself...
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post #9 of 66
12/12/10 at 4:16am
...because this public exercise of ego-masturbation is irritating, even if factual.

Yes, I also wish more people could spell or learn proper English. However, I certainly wouldn't rant about it on an international forum, and make myself out to be an ass of the equine nature by doing so.

Not so sure about my own sentence structure, but I think I've communicated my repulsion to your "superior" attitude and "Webster-as-porn-for-English-teacher-types". Or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by artificialintel View Post

I understand your position, but I acquit myself of simple liguistic pedantry in this case. The difference is that Shakespeare *expanded* the language. I'm not a person who has a problem with slang or alternate constructions. My problem is that persistent misuse of words and phrases can elide differences that used to allow different expression or signal useful information. If some internet guy had mixed and matched 'their' and 'there' I would have just thought, "Oh, well, he's sloppy," but that wasn't the case. He used 'there' every time. English would get measurably more confusing if the possessive adjective and the ordinary adjective were both spelled 'there.'. Likewise, I can't tell someone that 'I could care less' and have them understand that I could be less emotionally invested - instead they would take me to be saying the opposite. Even more distressing, I can't reliably use 'question-begging' to refer to its traditional referent in the minds of my interlocutors, and there really is no good substitute for it.

Add or even modify the language all you want, but please don't wash it away with false synonyms and unnecessary ambiguities.
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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post #10 of 66
12/12/10 at 4:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Sorry Habanero, I try not to comment on grammar and punctuation mistakes, but this one has been annoying us lately. It's your name. "Habanero," the chili, doesn't have a tilda over the "n." The name comes from the city, Habana, Cuba, where the chili was first traded in quantity. It's common among English speakers to assume the tilda has been left off in error and so try to "put it back on."

We happen to like this chili a lot, by the way. It has a kind of heat and flavour different from all others we're familiar with. That's why I care where it comes from and what happens to the name. Thanks for considering.

Guess what: it's my name, so I get to spell and punctuate it however I want.
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post #11 of 66
12/12/10 at 8:36am
@djsherly

<so spare us the English lessons.>

another idle comment that suggests we lower the already abysmal usa education levels to another new low.
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post #12 of 66
12/12/10 at 8:39am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habañero View Post

Guess what: it's my name, so I get to spell and punctuate it however I want.

(oh, and you're missing the "a" , the hyphen, and the "hole" at the end of YOUR name)

Change your name. Not that big of a deal.
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post #13 of 66
12/12/10 at 8:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Change your asinine name. Not that big of a deal.

Dictionary definition:
"The habanero chili (Capsicum chinense) (pronounced /ˌhɑːbəˈnɛəroʊ/; Spanish: [aβaˈneɾo]) is one of the more intensely spicy species of chili peppers of the Capsicum genus. It is sometimes spelled (and pronounced) habañerothe diacritical mark being added as a hyperforeignism."
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post #14 of 66
12/12/10 at 9:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by artificialintel View Post

I just wasted my time looking at some internet dude's posting history, and noticed that he always uses "there" instead of "their." Of course, everyone can type the wrong word from time to time and it's no worse than a minor distraction, but when you do it every time it gets really irritating.

Also, the Tab sold a million in two months, though I don't suppose there's much value in pointing that out to such a poster. Really, I just can't take the misuse of the possessive adjective. I know, I know, it's rife on message boards, especially amongst trolls, but I'm afraid that someday it will become such a widespread mistake that no one remembers how to do it right. See also "could care less" instead of "couldn't care less" as well as using "begs the question" as to mean "suggests the question" rather than to refer specifically to the logical fallacy of assuming the truth of a proposition when arguing for it.

In conclusion, some internet dude, please stop destroying English. It's a wonderfully flexible, rich, and deep language, which I invite you to learn.

His floundering grammar causes his message to founder!
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #15 of 66
12/12/10 at 9:58am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac.World View Post

Dictionary definition:
"The habanero chili (Capsicum chinense) (pronounced /ˌhɑːbəˈnɛəroʊ/; Spanish: [aβaˈneɾo]) is one of the more intensely spicy species of chili peppers of the Capsicum genus. It is sometimes spelled (and pronounced) habañerothe diacritical mark being added as a hyperforeignism."

Interesting term, "hyperforeignism." I didn't know this one, so thanks. What it means is that the foreigner, ignorant of the history of the word, assumes his fellow foreigners (mostly gringos in this case) are mispronouncing it, and so try to fix it and thus make himself sound less ignorant.

I just looked it up. Wikipedia has it under "hypercorrection," and actualy cites "habanero" with a tilde as a prime example of a hyperforeignism. (I notice that I misspelled tilde in my original post. I'm surprised no one caught it, but not surprised by my own forgetfulness. I'm going to change it, because I don't believe in perpetuating ignorance if I can help it.)

What dictionary did you get that from, by the way? It should have said "misspelled" and "mispronounced" in my opinion, but lexicographers try to report and not to prescribe these days.
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post #16 of 66
12/12/10 at 10:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by artificialintel View Post

I just wasted my time looking at some internet dude's posting history, and noticed that he always uses "there" instead of "their." Of course, everyone can type the wrong word from time to time and it's no worse than a minor distraction, but when you do it every time it gets really irritating.

Also, the Tab sold a million in two months, though I don't suppose there's much value in pointing that out to such a poster. Really, I just can't take the misuse of the possessive adjective. I know, I know, it's rife on message boards, especially amongst trolls, but I'm afraid that someday it will become such a widespread mistake that no one remembers how to do it right. See also "could care less" instead of "couldn't care less" as well as using "begs the question" as to mean "suggests the question" rather than to refer specifically to the logical fallacy of assuming the truth of a proposition when arguing for it.

In conclusion, some internet dude, please stop destroying English. It's a wonderfully flexible, rich, and deep language, which I invite you to learn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

His floundering grammar causes his message to founder!

The teaching and practice of the serious use of language skills seems to be one of the collateral casualties of the new age of instant communication. Speed over substance.
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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post #17 of 66
12/12/10 at 10:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TedK View Post

Not to feed artificialintel's neuroses too much, but since you ranted about it:

"Their" is a possessive pronoun not a "possessive adjective." Adjectives describe nouns... And, yes, MacRulez, that "less" and "fewer" thing drives me nuts too. Sorry, couldn't help myself...

MacRulez just threw in 'that "less" and "fewer" thing" for free!
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #18 of 66
12/12/10 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

The teaching and practice of the serious use of language skills seems to be one of the collateral casualties of the new age of instant communication. Speed over substance.

U R so hecka rite
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #19 of 66
12/12/10 at 12:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Interesting term, "hyperforeignism." I didn't know this one, so thanks. What it means is that the foreigner, ignorant of the history of the word, assumes his fellow foreigners (mostly gringos in this case) are mispronouncing it, and so try to fix it and thus make himself sound less ignorant.

I just looked it up. Wikipedia has it under "hypercorrection," and actualy cites "habanero" with a tilde as a prime example of a hyperforeignism. (I notice that I misspelled tilde in my original post. I'm surprised no one caught it, but not surprised by my own forgetfulness. I'm going to change it, because I don't believe in perpetuating ignorance if I can help it.)

What dictionary did you get that from, by the way? It should have said "misspelled" and "mispronounced" in my opinion, but lexicographers try to report and not to prescribe these days.

I recently read an interesting article about hyperforeignism as an explanation for the seemingly random pronunciations of certain borrowed French words in both British and American English.

Apparently, the more recently borrowed the word, the more likely it will be pronounced with exaggeratedly "foreign" stresses and vowel sounds, since early adopters are likely to be taking pains to not sound provincial. Sometimes this approximates the actual pronunciation of origin, sometimes the later, more relaxed version is actually closer to the mark.

I would provide examples but of course that bit has slipped my mind. I originally came across the idea while investigating "fillet", but that's such a tar ball of origins, meanings, uses, stresses and pronunciations as to be an example only of the mutability of language.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #20 of 66
12/12/10 at 1:34pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I recently read an interesting article about hyperforeignism as an explanation for the seemingly random pronunciations of certain borrowed French words in both British and American English.

Apparently, the more recently borrowed word, the more likely it will pronounced with exaggeratedly "foreign" stresses and vowel sounds, since the early adopters are likely to be taking pains to not sound provincial. Sometimes this approximates the actual pronunciation of origin, sometimes the later, more relaxed version is actually closer to the mark.

I would provide examples but of course that bit has slipped my mind. I originally came across the idea while investigating "fillet", but that's such a tar ball of origins, meanings, uses, stresses and pronunciations as to be an example only of the mutability of language.

Interesting, that time-of-borrowing angle. I wonder if it would apply to what must be my favorite candidate of a hyperforeignism, 'forte.' I remember reading an English-usage book in my youth wherein it pointed out that the word is a French borrowing and so should be pronounced 'fort,' as in fortification, not 'for-tay,' as if it were Italian. That would have been about 50 years ago, and do you think you can get away with saying it 'correctly' yet?

But there's hope, I think, because a more trans-lingual outlook is now possible, what with all information now available all the time instantly. The diffusion of a concept like hyperforeignism into this forum is an example of such noetic pressure in action.
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post #21 of 66
12/12/10 at 2:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post


I would provide examples but of course that bit has slipped my mind. I originally came across the idea while investigating "fillet", but that's such a tar ball of origins, meanings, uses, stresses and pronunciations as to be an example only of the mutability of language.

Well, there you go...

Your effort should have been directed at investigating "fille".

Bob's your uncle!
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #22 of 66
12/12/10 at 3:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Interesting, that time-of-borrowing angle. I wonder if it would apply to what must be my favorite candidate of a hyperforeignism, 'forte.' I remember reading an English-usage book in my youth wherein it pointed out that the word is a French borrowing and so should be pronounced 'fort,' as in fortification, not 'for-tay,' as if it were Italian. That would have been about 50 years ago, and do you think you can get away with saying it 'correctly' yet?

But there's hope, I think, because a more trans-lingual outlook is now possible, what with all information now available all the time instantly. The diffusion of a concept like hyperforeignism into this forum is an example of such noetic pressure in action.

Hah!

In Tucson there are the ruins of an old Fort, Fort Lowell that was built on the outskirts of town.

Quote:
The buildings at Fort Lowell reflected a Mexican Sonoran style of architecture. Buildings were built with think adobe walls, pine logs, and saguaro ribs supporting hard packed dirt roofs and wide hallways for ventilation.

http://oflna.org/fort_lowell_museum/ftlowell.htm

A small mexican community grew up around the fort, with small stores (tiendas) churches, bars, etc.

Ont of the streets leading to the fort, kinda' bastardizes the Anglo-Hispanic cultures...

It is named "Vista Del Forte Dr."


Tucson has a relaxed culture... so they'll probably get around to fixing it... mañana!

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #23 of 66
12/12/10 at 3:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

It is named "Vista Del Forte Dr."

That's got nothing on "the La Brea Tar Pits."

But I'm still working on "think adobe walls." I've been thinking about them all day, but still nothing.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #24 of 66
12/12/10 at 4:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

That's got nothing on "the La Brea Tar Pits."

But I'm still working on "think adobe walls." I've been thinking about them all day, but still nothing.

Then, there is the main road through Silicon Valley (and much of California): El Camino Real.

Locals refer to it as "The El Camino"... and they're too think-headed to change!

... And that's a tough road to hoe!
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #25 of 66
12/12/10 at 4:46pm
I hope Apple shows Google what html5 performance should look like, then Google copies Apple and brings decent html5 support to Android.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tawilson View Post

You do realise for the longest time Apple has had DIFFICULTY MEETING DEMAND for the iPad/iPhone 4?

I think they're just about getting on top of it now. But implying that iPhone sales NEED to pick up only goes to make you look stupid.

You do realize it's spelled "realize" don't you? Misspelling that word then calling someone stupid only goes to make you look stupid.

I'm kidding of course, but so was he
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post #26 of 66
12/12/10 at 4:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TedK View Post

Not to feed artificialintel's neuroses too much, but since you ranted about it:

"Their" is a possessive pronoun not a "possessive adjective." Adjectives describe nouns... And, yes, MacRulez, that "less" and "fewer" thing drives me nuts too. Sorry, couldn't help myself...

Actually 'theirs' is a possessive pronoun, like 'hers,' 'his,' 'mine,' and so on. The sentence "Please take mine," means exactly the same thing as "Please take my thing" because the possessive pronoun 'mine' serves in the role of the noun phrase 'my thing'. Possessive adjectives (aka possessive determiners), meanwhile, serve more like a definite article in that they describe something about nouns. "Get 'the' dice" is analogous to "Get 'my' dice" or "Get 'their' dice."

Thus, "their" is never a possessive pronoun and always possessive adjective/possessive determiner.
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post #27 of 66
12/12/10 at 5:12pm
incidentally I did make a sloppy mistake: I called 'there' an "ordinary adjective", which is a poor way of describing it. It can fill a number of roles including adjective, but the most common are adverbial.
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post #28 of 66
12/12/10 at 8:05pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Then, there is the main road through Silicon Valley (and much of California): El Camino Real.

Locals refer to it as "The El Camino"... and they're too think-headed to change!

... And that's a tough road to hoe!

I'm sure you mean 'ho.

Quote:
Originally Posted by artificialintel View Post

incidentally I did make a sloppy mistake: I called 'there' an "ordinary adjective", which is a poor way of describing it. It can fill a number of roles including adjective, but the most common are adverbial.

Here in the pedants' corner, fenced off from the normals, their is no regret for error. It gives your fellow pedants grist for there mills.
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post #29 of 66
12/12/10 at 9:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

You do realize it's spelled "realize" don't you? Misspelling that word then calling someone stupid only goes to make you look stupid.

Are you being serious or trying to make a joke? As the word is spelt realise in correct English.
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post #30 of 66
12/12/10 at 9:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

I'm sure you mean 'ho.



Here in the pedants' corner, fenced off from the normals, their is no regret for error. It gives your fellow pedants grist for there mills.

Thar be noo cause fer that sort a' merriment, yoo!
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post #31 of 66
12/12/10 at 9:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Are you being serious or trying to make a joke? As the word is spelt realise in correct English.

I think you meant to say that the word is correctly spelled "realise" in British English.

I seriously doubt you're claiming that British English is any more "correct" than American English. That would make you a pompous jackass. So I seriously doubt that.
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post #32 of 66
12/12/10 at 10:21pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I think you meant to say that the word is correctly spelled "realise" in British English.

I seriously doubt you're claiming that British English is any more "correct" than American English. That would make you a pompous jackass. So I seriously doubt that.

As an American, colour me perverse, but I've always thought the 's' was more civilised.
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post #33 of 66
12/12/10 at 11:08pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by artificialintel View Post

Thar be noo cause fer that sort a' merriment, yoo!

[Dourly] All the same, cheers, here's to interlocution!
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post #34 of 66
12/13/10 at 12:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Interesting, that time-of-borrowing angle. I wonder if it would apply to what must be my favorite candidate of a hyperforeignism, 'forte.' I remember reading an English-usage book in my youth wherein it pointed out that the word is a French borrowing and so should be pronounced 'fort,' as in fortification, not 'for-tay,' as if it were Italian. That would have been about 50 years ago, and do you think you can get away with saying it 'correctly' yet?

But there's hope, I think, because a more trans-lingual outlook is now possible, what with all information now available all the time instantly. The diffusion of a concept like hyperforeignism into this forum is an example of such noetic pressure in action.

I've come across that as well, although I concluded that grimly pronouncing it "fort" and then explaining the facts to inevitably bemused listeners was never going to get me anywhere. I briefly considered making a focused study of "coupes" so I could inform people that my forte was coupes, pronouncing each correctly and cementing my reputation as a ghastly weirdo, but I figured I had enough eccentricities to keep me busy.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #35 of 66
12/13/10 at 12:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I've come across that as well, although I concluded that grimly pronouncing it "fort" and then explaining the facts to inevitably bemused listeners was never going to get me anywhere. I briefly considered making a focused study of "coupes" so I could inform people that my forte was coupes, pronouncing each correctly and cementing my reputation as a ghastly weirdo, but I figured I had enough eccentricities to keep me busy.

Well, I'm somewhat sympathetic to the idea of continuing the 'mistaken' pronunciation because the extra syllable distinguishes it as meaning only 'forte' rather than leaving it ambiguous in some cases. As a reverse example, many military officers pronounce 'cache' like 'cachet,' creating a possible collision. Of course, it could also collide with 'cash' under the common correct pronunciation, so it's probably no worse. The best case would be to pronounce it like 'caysh,' a unique sound and a 'correct' (though secondary) pronunciation.
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post #36 of 66
12/13/10 at 1:09am
Speaking of which, can someone explain to me what happened where good old American English "niche", pronounced to rhyme with "witch", was suddenly switched up to the British/French "neesh"?

I swear I never heard neesh from American speakers until a few years ago, but apparently a memo went out that I wasn't aware of.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #37 of 66
12/13/10 at 1:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I think you meant to say that the word is correctly spelled "realise" in British English.

I seriously doubt you're claiming that British English is any more "correct" than American English. That would make you a pompous jackass. So I seriously doubt that.

Glad to see you don't hold back, just throwing the insults around...

Yes, British English is correct English, not pompous, just the truth.
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post #38 of 66
12/13/10 at 2:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Speaking of which, can someone explain to me what happened where good old American English "niche", pronounced to rhyme with "witch", was suddenly switched up to the British/French "neesh"?

I swear I never heard neesh from American speakers until a few years ago, but apparently a memo went out that I wasn't aware of.

Yes, I've been meaning to mention that to you. Also, you put the old cover page on your most recent TPS report. I hope you'll make a note of it.
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post #39 of 66
12/13/10 at 3:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Yes, British English is correct English, not pompous, just the truth.

Sorry mate the British Empire went down a long time ago, and the UK itself is pretty much f**ed for the next 10 years. And hardly anyone speaks anything close to resembling "proper" English of any shade in the UK.
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post #40 of 66
12/13/10 at 6:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Speaking of which, can someone explain to me what happened where good old American English "niche", pronounced to rhyme with "witch", was suddenly switched up to the British/French "neesh"?

I swear I never heard neesh from American speakers until a few years ago, but apparently a memo went out that I wasn't aware of.

Ahh... If you go to the southwest US or northern Mexico, a feature of the adobe archictecture used in missions and homes is a recess built into the wall. The recess is called a niche and is typically used to display a statue of a saint or an objet d'art.

The word niche is pronounced knee-chay.

Even Nietzsche would have found its pronounciation ironic.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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