Originally Posted by MJ1970
segovius, perhaps you've missed my point. First is the issue of defining the labels and second is the issue of properly applying them in a way that is helpful (if that's even possible.)
Let's take your post:
It appears that you are trying to define what "right-wing" means or is. That's a good start.
You seem to be saying that if someone or some group engages in one or more of these things (and there might be others):
- cult of the individual
- glorification of nation and leaders
- over-emphasis on military
- talk of 'freedom' leading to war
They are to one degree or another
"right wing." Is that correct?
Yes. And contra-wise the Left would traditionally attempt to avoid war, promote Peace, oppose Nationalism, oppose racism etc, emphasise the majority rather than the individual.
Furthermore you begin a definition of what "left-wing" means here:
So a person or group who promotes one or more of these things:
- equality (of what?)
- "real" freedom (what is "real" freedom?)
is to one degree or another
"left wing." Is that correct?
Not sure I'd say that these things constitute ACTUAL left or right but rather they are constituent parts.
If you see a flower waving peace-nik for example you'd probably guess rightly they were a Leftie.
A skinhead racist thug shouting "Immigrants Out" or "Bomb Iran" is more likely (massively) to be Right.
Some additional questions. Can a person "be" both left and right wing if they do some of each of these things? Admittedly they might be muddled or inconsistent in their thinking and actions...but certain actions they engage in or promote might be considered left or right wing so getting a line on how to classify (i.e., label) that person as a whole might be tough.
Yes, I think so.
I have issues in this regard myself. Although I despise Right-wing 'thought' (or what passes for it) and can find no greater abomination than Rightist political views, I must say I am more at home in the company of Conservatives (not extreme ones) than Lefties.
There are several reasons for this: they seem less 'obsessed' and more 'normal' somehow. In my circle they are better educated and more cultured and they are traditionalists...which I am also.
This last point is a biggie for me: I have several what you might call "Right wing traits" - Particularly regarding moral standards and current culture but I should probably stop there hahahah.
In summary I'm trying to get more clarification on what you mean by "right" vs. "left" (by the way these are the two worst labels since they seem the most un-anchored in any kind of objective reality.)
What I mean is that on the Political Spectrum I would argue there is no 'Left end' and 'Right end'. In fact it may not be a spectrum at all.
I would see it as a ladder: at the bottom is the crude, animalistic, nose in the trough neanderthalism with which we are so sorrowfully familiar. At the top are the higher values of liberty, justice and freedom.
My point is that the Right is most often positioned at the bottom of this ladder. It's a sad fact.
But you're right, it is besides your initial point which is a good one and deserves more attention than I gave it...sorry for derailing a bit...