or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Official Revolution Watch Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Official Revolution Watch Thread - Page 2

post #41 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by talksense101 View Post

Talking about education: Watch this video. http://bit.ly/9FliM8 I loved it.

I love those animations. I think the speaker is a little over the top wrt to effects of ritalin on children. It's not anesthetizing children into drooling idiots but obviously over prescribed.

Makes me glad I send my kid to an open school.
post #42 of 271
Thread Starter 
Parcel bomb blasts at two embassies in Rome.

Quote:
Parcel bomb blasts have reportedly injured two people at the Swiss and Chilean embassies in the Italian capital Rome.

A Swiss member of staff at the Swiss embassy received serious hand injuries, police said.

Hours later, a parcel bomb exploded at the Chilean embassy, where one person is said to have been hurt.

There was no indication of who might have sent the two devices but Italian media suggest an "eco-terrorist" link.

Link
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #43 of 271
Thread Starter 
As I said earlier in this thread, I believe that the coming 'change' will be politically neutral: it will be merely a case of the oppressed taking back control.

A key flashpoint of this I think will be the Islamic World in general and Iran in particular. Consider this:

Quote:
While President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was outlining his targeted subsidies plan to the people on television on Saturday, riot police were deploying in Tehran's streets to deal with any protests the lifting of subsidies might trigger.

The impact of the cuts on people's lives is still unclear, but anxiety is widespread.

According to official statements the price of flour could be 40 times higher, petrol would cost between four and seven times more, gas five times more, and electricity and water about three times more.

This could make life very expensive in big cities like the the capital, where many residents already work two jobs to cover their living costs.

Imo, the conditions in Iran are already at fever point and this is a mistake by Ahmedinejad which could well put the flame to the tinder box.

Quote:
Under the subsidy system, Iranians have enjoyed some of the lowest petrol prices in the world - paying as little as $0.40 (25p) per gallon ($0.10 per litre).

As a result of the cuts the price of petrol will rise at least four-fold
But the country, which has some of the world's biggest oil reserves, has been forced to import refined fuel to meet domestic demand.

Over the past two decades, successive governments promised a major overhaul of costly public spending, but none carried it out.

This has kept the lid on things for 20 years and is a fatal error to remove it imo.

Quote:
"This plan, if it is not implemented prudently, will certainly create a crisis in the country," said one reformist MP who asked not to be named.

"Compared to the post-election events, this time the core of the crisis will be shifted from the middle class to the working class of the country, from which the political system receives a huge amount of its support."

It won't be implemented properly.

I think we will see Ahmedinejad removed fairly quickly if this gets going and possibly - depending on how things go on the streets - a movement arising against the regime.

If this happens all bets are off. Hopefully the US will keep its snout out and Iran can be part of the coming push to freedom.

Link
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #44 of 271
Thread Starter 
Leftists called upon to attack tourism

Quote:
The latest edition of the left-wing radical newspaper Interim contains a proposal for an anti-tourism campaign 2011, daily Der Tagesspiegel reported.

The campaign would include swiping wallets and phones from tables in restaurants, setting fire to cars, attacking hotels, creating rubbish piles, throwing things at tourist buses.

The author of the statement in the paper argues that tourism is fuelling gentrification, which is a growing complaint among the city's left-wing radicals, who argue that rising affluence can push poorer people out of districts in which they have lived for years.

Berlins artistic, creative reputation has been drawing growing numbers of tourists in recent years, especially since the 2006 football World Cup, fuelling a boom in development, with hotels, bars and restaurants springing up in central areas of the capital.

Dozens of cars have been set alight in the past year by suspected left-wing extremists.

Link
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #45 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

As I said earlier in this thread, I believe that the coming 'change' will be politically neutral: it will be merely a case of the oppressed taking back control.

A key flashpoint of this I think will be the Islamic World in general and Iran in particular. Consider this:



Imo, the conditions in Iran are already at fever point and this is a mistake by Ahmedinejad which could well put the flame to the tinder box.



This has kept the lid on things for 20 years and is a fatal error to remove it imo.



It won't be implemented properly.

I think we will see Ahmedinejad removed fairly quickly if this gets going and possibly - depending on how things go on the streets - a movement arising against the regime.

If this happens all bets are off. Hopefully the US will keep its snout out and Iran can be part of the coming push to freedom.

Link

The fatal error was creating price controls in the first place.
post #46 of 271
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

The fatal error was creating price controls in the first place.

As an analysis of the Iranian Cultural Revolution and any errors made this is probably a bit light.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #47 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

As an analysis of the Iranian Cultural Revolution and any errors made this is probably a bit light.

Yet absolutely correct. Political control of the economy leads to political problems not economic ones.
post #48 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by talksense101 View Post

The university fees went up by about 9000 pounds from what I saw on the news. I didn't see it go up three times.

A new revolution that kills the excessive globalization and capitalism would be nice. We need to be more self dependent and encourage fresh perspectives on life. As it stands, the current 'western' way of living is not sustainable for the planet, but it still gets propagated by the media. We also need to hold the governments responsible for the people. They are currently answerable to the corporate lobbyists and nothing more. There are so many things wrong with the status co and the efforts taken by those in power to retain the same modus operandi that a revolution will be nice. In any case, it is a nice dream.

Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Three paragraphs might be pushing it! But as Talksense says...they went to 9000 and were about 3000 depending on the Uni.

Not sure about the GDP but it will certainly mean only kids of the rich will go in future - this must have a knock-on effect as it will remove a large percentage of the future potential work pool.

Here's the kicker: If you think things are bad, disorganised, etc. in the Western world, wait 'till you check out the developing world.

What we still have in the developing world though is potential for growth and new ways of thinking, etc. whereas in the developed world things are kind of "maxxed out" in several ways.
post #49 of 271
Thread Starter 
More news from the front-line.

This months massive bestseller in France is not - as you might imagine - the usual brain-dead fodder for lobotomized gibbons but rather a 30 page call to revolution by a 93 year-old pensioner called Get Angry!

Quote:
Hessel's success has stunned France. After two months on the bestseller lists, the book has spent five weeks at number one, beating Michel Houellebecq's award-winning latest novel La Carte et le Territoire and a host of Christmas fiction. It has sold 600,000 copies and publishers predict it will reach a million. Translations are underway for Italy and other European markets.

Hessel wants us to get angry.

He wants us to reclaim our rights and realize we are perhaps (though he does not say this) one or two 'terror attacks' away from a Police State.

He wants us to fight the tyranny we have become inured to.

And he should know of what he speaks - a veteran of the French Resistance who fought for freedom then was arrested and shipped to Buchenwald where he was tortured and narrowly escaped hanging.

Now he is pointing the way forward for our own struggle today.

Quote:
Hessels experiences during World War II form the ideological basis of Indignez-vous, which asserts that the spirit of French resistance is needed now as much as it was 70 years ago. We call on the younger generations to carry on the legacy of the Resistance and its ideals, Hessel writes, citing the gap between the poorest and the richest as one of many reasons to be indignant today.

He calls for peaceful opposition but admits in the Middle East and with Israel's attitude this may not be possible peacefully. But he is Jewish so he can point certain things out.

Quote:
Hessel, who in 2006 was named Grand Officer of the Legion of Honour, has also been a vocal supporter of a boycott of Israeli products in protest against Israels occupation of Palestinian territories. In his interview with FRANCE 24, Hessel said that criticisms of Israel were muted, because everyone is afraid of being called an anti-Semite. This reticence must be conquered. Israeli treatment of Palestinians is indeed a major theme of his essay, in which he notes: Jews themselves perpetrating war crimes is intolerable. Alas, the past offers few examples of people learning lessons from their own history.

More here.....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #50 of 271
Thread Starter 
Looks like it's kicking off in Tunisia now too.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #51 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Looks like it's kicking off in Tunisia now too.

Now here we have the classic revolution-path: Youth and young adults, educated and qualified but unemployed, stand up against a dictatory system and other parts of society join because of jumped food- and fuel-prices... and also because of the bloody reaction of the police-force and also because of the burning suicide-sacrifice of the unemployed academic that ignited it all, obviously resonating with the feelings of many and underlining the seriousness.

Surprisingly the president of Tunis seems to give in to the protesters, promising to free all imprisoned protesters, calls the forces to stop shooting at them, and promises to do something because of the food-prices and also to create 300,000 jobs for the unemployed (how will he do that?) and also promises to stand-down as president in 2014 and also to form a national unity-government in which parts of the opposition can take part, and promises free press... even sacking the interior minister and saying that he was fooled by advisers around him..

Sounds all too good to be true, but it's surprising to see to what length the president goes to recognize the wishes of the protesters, even if it's just in words right now, so obviously he felt the situation was highly explosive:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12189535
I disagree, and could prove you're wrong; care to offer any proof that you're not wrong?
Reply
I disagree, and could prove you're wrong; care to offer any proof that you're not wrong?
Reply
post #52 of 271
Thread Starter 
Government Falls!!

Quote:
Tunisian President Zine al-Abidine Ben Ali has dismissed the country's government and ordered elections for a new parliament within six months.The move comes after weeks of protests over corruption, unemployment and high food prices.

They culminated earlier in thousands of people protesting outside the interior ministry in the capital Tunis, urging the president to quit.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #53 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Government Falls!!

Not only that, now the president gave up and fled the country.
I disagree, and could prove you're wrong; care to offer any proof that you're not wrong?
Reply
I disagree, and could prove you're wrong; care to offer any proof that you're not wrong?
Reply
post #54 of 271
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightcrawler View Post

Not only that, now the president gave up and fled the country.

I'm really surprised no-one else seems interested in this. It is a major development.

I can really see this spreading to other Arab countries - Syria in particular and Algeria must be concerned. I really hope so actually though Asad Jr is probably doing a good as job as possible in Syria.

What I want personally is the Mullahs out in Iran and and a secular State (along Turkish lines) with Shi'i accommodation installed that is not going to kow-tow to the West but which is still Western leaning.

I'd move there like a shot.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #55 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I'm really surprised no-one else seems interested in this. It is a major development.

I can really see this spreading to other Arab countries - Syria in particular and Algeria must be concerned. I really hope so actually though Asad Jr is probably doing a good as job as possible in Syria.

What I want personally is the Mullahs out in Iran and and a secular State (along Turkish lines) with Shi'i accommodation installed that is not going to kow-tow to the West but which is still Western leaning.

I'd move there like a shot.

Lack of comments does not mean that people haven't been following what's happening in Tunisia. You raise the question that was posted by the BBC@
Could other Arab countries follow Tunisia's example?

Is Turkey slipping more into a fundamentalist state?
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
Reply
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
Reply
post #56 of 271
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Is Turkey slipping more into a fundamentalist state?

..

No.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #57 of 271
How long have we got?

Its plainly obvious that most developed civilizations are teetering on the edge of collapse. There is not the resources to ever stand a hope in hells chance of paying off the debts, or even balancing them.
The bailouts are just delaying the inevitable.
Can we just print money as a last resort on the scale of the Wiemar Republic? to essentially wipe out all debts and assets - an economic reboot?
post #58 of 271
How about we stop catering to the top 1%? Get them to realize that if they want a society to actually live in, they need to stop being such greedy motherfuckers. And then we need to get half of America to stop voting against their own interests because they hate gays and fear atheists.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #59 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

How about we stop catering to the top 1%? Get them to realize that if they want a society to actually live in, they need to stop being such greedy motherfuckers. And then we need to get half of America to stop voting against their own interests because they hate gays and fear atheists.

Dont you think though that it goes further than that? - What you state is true, and I agree, but the scale of the problem is so great, there is no way out for anyone regardless of what we do.

Perhaps, its in all our interests, just to keep putting a plaster over the wound for as long as we can, because eventually we are all utterly utterly fucked anyway.

I look forward to the inevitable crash, and I dont think there is a single thing that anyone can do to hedge against it.
post #60 of 271
I really don't think it has to be that way. But it will require a fundamental shift in how humans treat each other. There are enough resources out there to feed, clothe, and shelter everyone. Greed is what needs to go the way of the dodo. And you're right, that's a rather tall order. Maybe I'm romantically optimistic about our species. Maybe I shouldn't be.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #61 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I really don't think it has to be that way. But it will require a fundamental shift in how humans treat each other. There are enough resources out there to feed, clothe, and shelter everyone. Greed is what needs to go the way of the dodo. And you're right, that's a rather tall order. Maybe I'm romantically optimistic about our species. Maybe I shouldn't be.

The trouble is, and we see it demonstrated here every day, there are many, many people who cant think in any other terms, than their personal profit...themselves. They will say, do, deceive, of anything for their upside. Humanity is going to be forced to change - even if through utter collapse of the norm.

At the moment, the sociopaths do have the power - through technology. The question is whether there is a critical mass of rabble population to overcome the tech?
post #62 of 271
My conscience - There is a revolution coming, whether we like it or not.

My intentions are honest and pure - but I think we need to be aware of the fact, that many innocent people are going to die, and the rest of us have our lives turned 180 degrees because of it. Is this right or wrong - for all our sins?
post #63 of 271
I don't know that Americans in general have to courage to do a revolution anymore. They are too comfortable in their ways and revolution is very messy. Revolution for them is voting differently to see if things get better. If not they complain, and vote again. And nothing much changes. I have been feeling very run down lately due to current event. And I don't believe that I will see anything new happen that will be worth getting excited over. And reading these forums and their spurious arguments that go around and around with no solutions and nothing changing just keeps me shaking my head.

I have changed quite a bit in the past 10 years. If you knew me back then and compared me to now you would see it. Coming back and posting here I saw that others have changed as well. But the general posting atmosphere has not changed for the better. It is very sour here. No matter how one tries to make it better it always seems to go the same route, devolving into a you're a racist, you're and idiot spitting match. I can see why some have left and I am wondering why I keep coming back. hope may spring eternal, but my patience is running thin. I wonder if Americans patience will do the same and something will actually change. Even if it is uncomfortable.

Sorry for the winding path. It is late and I just finished reading to kill a mockingbird for the first time. Goodnight all. May tomorrow be better.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #64 of 271
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I really don't think it has to be that way. But it will require a fundamental shift in how humans treat each other. There are enough resources out there to feed, clothe, and shelter everyone. Greed is what needs to go the way of the dodo. And you're right, that's a rather tall order. Maybe I'm romantically optimistic about our species. Maybe I shouldn't be.

Yes, you're right. Imo, the fundamental change though will have to be 'spiritual' or it won't take root.

I don't mean religious or even anything remotely connected - that won't work. Religions have failed in this regard and in the 60s a wider spirituality was attempted and also failed.

I mean 'spiritual' in the sense of transcendent and unifying - much like art is.

If something like that can occur then we're in with a shout.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #65 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Parcel bomb blasts at two embassies in Rome.



Link

where did you see this news or read about it?
post #66 of 271
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerald apple View Post

where did you see this news or read about it?

Err...at the link that's there in the post and your quote?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #67 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Yes, you're right. Imo, the fundamental change though will have to be 'spiritual' or it won't take root.

I don't mean religious or even anything remotely connected - that won't work. Religions have failed in this regard and in the 60s a wider spirituality was attempted and also failed.

I mean 'spiritual' in the sense of transcendent and unifying - much like art is.

If something like that can occur then we're in with a shout.

I think we desperately need to discover life elsewhere. Something so strange, mysterious, and beautiful that it makes our differences seem rather insignificant.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #68 of 271
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I think we desperately need to discover life elsewhere. Something so strange, mysterious, and beautiful that it makes our differences seem rather insignificant.

Yes, that's what I was thinking of exactly - or more specifically, perhaps resurrecting space exploration.

Something that can capture the imagination of everyone on the planet and unite all nations together to do without profit as a motive.

It's a disgrace that it was the Cold War that motivated the space race in the 60s and 70s and then when the US succeeded they just mothballed it and left all the achievements go to rot.

Seems it was more based on competing with the Russians rather than objective research - and money of course, but they spend trillions more than a Space Program would cost on all sorts of madness.

Anyway, we could do it. All it needs is commitment - and the realization it is human destiny. Our glorious leaders can;t seem to grasp that - they're all essentially stuck in tribal mode.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #69 of 271
You couldn't be more right. People need to rewatch the Cosmos mini-series by Carl Sagan.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #70 of 271
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

You couldn't be more right. People need to rewatch the Cosmos mini-series by Carl Sagan.

Yeah, was a classic. I get a bit angry and feel betrayed remembering how things used to be in this way: growing up it was just a commonplace that we would be expanding our horizons and moving into space.

Instead we had to settle for the sort of boring mundane nothingness we thought our parents had shook off after the war. Sad.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #71 of 271
Imagine if we had put a fraction of the cost of going to war into space exploration. What's even worse is there isn't a good economic reason not to go to space. Think about our greatest leaps in technology--fruits of the NASA tree. It's hard to find a piece of technology that wasn't influenced by the space race.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #72 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Imagine if we had put a fraction of the cost of going to war into space exploration.

Or back into the pockets of the people from which it has been taken.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

What's even worse is there isn't a good economic reason not to go to space.

Really? How do you know? Is it because of the vast private investment that' been put into this field?


Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Think about our greatest leaps in technology--fruits of the NASA tree. It's hard to find a piece of technology that wasn't influenced by the space race.

These are largely myths actually.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #73 of 271
Of course here comes Captain Bringdown and the Ass Police.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #74 of 271
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

These are largely myths actually.

Examples?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #75 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Examples?

Actually a number of the things that have been attributed to the space program for its genesis was actually developed before, in parallel with or outside of. I wish I could find a link to a few of things I've read about this. I used to believe all that too...but learned otherwise. It's one of those popular and comfortable myths that continues to get perpetuated like The New Deal saved the economy (or WW2 saved the economy)...stuff like that. Heck even the whole "internet was invented by the government" thing is only sorta true. Most of the concepts and ideas and even some of the early protocols were developed privately before one or two of the key visionaries went to work for ARPA/DARPA where they expanded on these already emerging ideas.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #76 of 271
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Actually a number of the things that have been attributed to the space program for its genesis was actually developed before, in parallel with or outside of. I wish I could find a link to a few of things I've read about this. I used to believe all that too...but learned otherwise. It's one of those popular and comfortable myths that continues to get perpetuated like The New Deal saved the economy (or WW2 saved the economy)...stuff like that. Heck even the whole "internet was invented by the government" thing is only sorta true. Most of the concepts and ideas and even some of the early protocols were developed privately before one or two of the key visionaries went to work for ARPA/DARPA where they expanded on these already emerging ideas.

So no examples then.

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #77 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

So no examples then.


Velcro. Teflon. Integrated Circuits.

Three that immediately come to mind as having been claimed to be developed by or for the space program and likely to have not come about with this "investment." But were, in fact, not developed for or with NASA.

What's more there is no way to know that anything that might be attributable to the space program would not have been created without the space program. This is simply an assumption.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #78 of 271
doesn't look like there is anything spiritual going on in Tunisia today, unless you count guns and death a spiritual experience. Seems like a revolution can only happen with death and pain, as they always have.

how much do you want this revolution? Will it be woth it?
post #79 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcUK™ View Post

doesn't look like there is anything spiritual going on in Tunisia today, unless you count guns and death a spiritual experience. Seems like a revolution can only happen with death and pain, as they always have.

how much do you want this revolution? Will it be woth it?

It very well may be, to the next generation. This generation will likely pay a high price for the hope of something better. Assuming they are changing to something that is worthwhile.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #80 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcUK™ View Post

doesn't look like there is anything spiritual going on in Tunisia today, unless you count guns and death a spiritual experience. Seems like a revolution can only happen with death and pain, as they always have.

Revolution always comes with violence, in the case of Tunisia it is the old president's guard that is formenting the violence. As has been reported lately, it seems like the fleeing president Ali has prepared his followers with money and weapons and instructed them to provoke a civil war before he escaped and is even directing the violence right now from the outside, in order to prepare his return as the saviour of the nation. Currently the tunisian army tries to capture or kill that president's guard, in a few days/weeks they will probably be defeated.

The much bigger question is: Will Tunisia's new government use the opportunity to install a real democracy with press freedom, freedom to assemble, to candidate... or will they go the tried and known route and fall back to the dictatorship?

As to the developed/free world, I don't see any revolutions coming (at least not violent ones through the street), there is no need, freedom is already there to elect different parties or to even found new ones, revolution can happen at the ballot-box, if that doesn't happen, it just means too many people are too comfortable with the status quo.

Besides those wishing for revolution don't have an alternative society/economy-model that could replace the "Adam Smith"-model (with a bit Keynesiamism thrown in) of generating wealth.

Communism hasn't worked, the islamistic sharia-non-interest-model is feared rather than desired, so what should the new paradigma look like?

What should motivate one to leave the bed early and to do hard/dirty work, to study or ... besides money or the expectation of future money?
I disagree, and could prove you're wrong; care to offer any proof that you're not wrong?
Reply
I disagree, and could prove you're wrong; care to offer any proof that you're not wrong?
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: PoliticalOutsider
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Official Revolution Watch Thread