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Canadian iBookstore approved, Rogers to unlock iPhones

post #1 of 56
Thread Starter 
The Canadian government has formally approved the Canadian version of the iBookstore, while wireless carrier Rogers has begun unlocking iPhones for customers that have finished their contract or purchased the handset unsubsidized.

iBookstore

The Ministry of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages announced Tuesday that it was granting formal approval of Apple's iBookstore, MacNN reports.

"Our Government is committed to strengthening Canada's economy through all its sectors, especially arts and culture," said Minister James Moore. "Apple has demonstrated how iBookstore Canada represents new opportunities for Canadian authors and publishers, and I have determined that this investment will be of net benefit to Canada."

According to the press release, Apple has committed to the promotion of Canadian-authored French- and English-language titles in the iBookstore in Canada and internationally; increased opportunities for Canadian publishers and authors; increased access to titles from Aboriginal authors and publishers; assistance to Canadian publishers in streamlining processes of e-book creation and enhancement.

Though a limited version of the iBookstore has been available in Canada until now, offering some US-based paid titles and public domain works, government approval of a Canadian iBookstore should help draw Canadian publishers to Apple's eBook platform.

iPhone unlocked

Canadian carrier Rogers has reportedly begun unlocking iPhones for customers who have finished their contracts or bought an unsubsidized handset. The new policy for Rogers sub-brand Fido allows qualifying customers to unlock their iPhones for a $50 fee plus applicable taxes, iPhone in Canada reports.

To qualify, customers must have an account in good standing; have finished their contract or paid the unsubsidized cost for the device 30 days prior and unlock a device that is listed in their equipment history.

According to the report, Fido user Argun Tekant was able to successfully unlock an iPhone 3GS. Tekant claims he tested AT&T, O2 UK, and Wind SIMs to verify the unlock.

Canada, along with the UK and France, was one of the first countries to sell the iPhone 4 unlocked and SIM-free.
post #2 of 56
Why the hell does our government need to approve a BOOK STORE?

And yes, it's about freakin' time Rogers started unlocking iPhones that aren't being subsidized anymore. Hell, last year when I went to the Apple store about buying an iPhone 3GS outright, the Apple store manager insisted that all smartphones were locked in North America.

At least this year, I could buy an iPhone 4 unlocked straight from Apple.
post #3 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatisgoingon View Post

At least this year, I could buy an iPhone 4 unlocked straight from Apple.

Do you have to use the computer after changing SIM cards to re-register the phone? Way back, the jailbreak was more effective than a carrier unlock...
post #4 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatisgoingon View Post

Why the hell does our government need to approve a BOOK STORE?

Ask the French-Canadian lobby.

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post #5 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatisgoingon View Post

Why the hell does our government need to approve a BOOK STORE?

Yeah, First Amendment. Few people realize that speech is not as free as they might think outside the USA.
post #6 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amdahl View Post

Yeah, First Amendment. Few people realize that speech is not as free as they might think outside the USA.

We also Learnt recently that it is not as free as we might think inside the USA too.
post #7 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amdahl View Post

Yeah, First Amendment. Few people realize that speech is not as free as they might think outside the USA.

...And few Americans realize how ridiculously USA-centric their view of the world is.

If anything, the rules are about preserving free speech. It's not exactly difficult to find American-produced content up here in Canada. In fact, we're inundated by it. While I don't necessarily agree with all of their decisions, they make them for a reason. It's not about limiting what people say. It's about making sure that, in Canada, Canadians have a voice loud enough to be heard over the racket from down south.

Am I glad we have the iBookstore in Canada now? Yup. Do I think it should have been allowed sooner? Possibly. Do I think the government got positive concessions out of Apple, that will improve Canadian free speech, by holding out? Absolutely!
post #8 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amdahl View Post

Yeah, First Amendment. Few people realize that speech is not as free as they might think outside the USA.

Is it also customary down south to act before you think (read)?

"According to the press release, Apple has committed to the promotion of Canadian-authored French- and English-language titles in the iBookstore in Canada and internationally; increased opportunities for Canadian publishers and authors; increased access to titles from Aboriginal authors and publishers; assistance to Canadian publishers in streamlining processes of e-book creation and enhancement."
post #9 of 56
Why the hell would I hand over $50 to Rogers to unlock MY phone? I'm on contract with Rogers for the exact same price as people with subsidized phones, but I brought my own!! My phone! And I pay them over $100 a month for my service. A month! Good thing I'm happy with the service.

Sorry, but $50 is ridiculous. I'd pay $10 tops. What does the cost cover?
post #10 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Is it also customary down south to act before you think (read)?

"According to the press release, Apple has committed to the promotion of Canadian-authored French- and English-language titles in the iBookstore in Canada and internationally; increased opportunities for Canadian publishers and authors; increased access to titles from Aboriginal authors and publishers; assistance to Canadian publishers in streamlining processes of e-book creation and enhancement."

Still - why do you need an approval of the government to expand a BOOK STORE?
I think the article is not precise enough on what exactly the government did and why it was necessary. Bad article?
post #11 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by luinil View Post

We also Learnt recently that it is not as free as we might think inside the USA too.

Amen to that.
post #12 of 56
This will be a very unpopular viewpoint but, as a Canadian, I believe that we do have unique cultures to protect. Without Canadian rules governing bookstore content the store would be filled with 99% American authours. Yes, I spell authour with a 'u' and I intend to continue doing so!
post #13 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolfactor View Post

Why the hell would I hand over $50 to Rogers to unlock MY phone? I'm on contract with Rogers for the exact same price as people with subsidized phones, but I brought my own!! My phone! And I pay them over $100 a month for my service. A month! Good thing I'm happy with the service.

Agree! One last mugging before you're allowed to go get mugged from another Carrier. I have an unlocked original iPhone with Fido and fit really feels like I've overpayed. I thought with more carrier competition the rates would have come down.

But I guess I thought the same about basic internet access. \
post #14 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatisgoingon View Post

Why the hell does our government need to approve a BOOK STORE?

Same reason Canada governs it's banking systems? You do know none of your banks went tits up with the recession and needed no public monies to be bailed out.

If I were you, I would stop complaining and just enjoy the book store eh... It seems the government knows what is best to protect the writers and literature market in Canada.
post #15 of 56
Nice of the Government to approve.

I wonder when the publishers/distributors will.

The Canadian iBookstore choice is pathetic, the Kindles not much better.
post #16 of 56
Here in Canada we can just buy iPhones unlocked, so why buy one on contract? If you own an iPhone 3 and want an unlocked iPhone, then the iPhone 4 is a much better choice than kludges that free your old phone from contract.

Even more importantly, what sort of morons are still signing contracts with Rogers? (leaving aside service shortcomings, Rogers don't exactly have a great customer relations record where contracts are involved)
post #17 of 56
I got my iPhone unlocked by Rogers yesterday for the $50. I felt the same way as others, that why the hell should I pay for them to unlock my own property? My contract means that the subsidy will be repaid, either through the 3 year contract or through the early termination fee. I actually think locking of phones should be illegal in most countries as it would fall under restraint of trade. Could also be considered a racket, since they lock/cripple the phones and then charge you to uncripple/unlock the phones. "I won't break your legs if you pay me $50." And I suppose it could also be considered illegal tying/bundling. How the hell does the wireless industry (around the world) get away with locking when it seems it would violate a number of laws?

Anyway, my phone is now unlocked. In my personal situation, I can't complain about the $50 too much, since they gave me the iPhone 4 for free after some negotiating in the summer. So, I end up with an Apple unlocked iP4 for $50, though I will be paying much more over the remainder of the contract. But, if I had paid the regular subsidized price and was locked into a contract for 3 years (potentially 4.5 years with Rogers subsidiary Fido, because they stack contracts if you renew before the end of the term).

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #18 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatisgoingon View Post

Why the hell does our government need to approve a BOOK STORE?

Canada has pretty stringent laws regarding the sale and broadcasting (I think iBookstore counts as both) of non-Canadian works. It's supposed to be an act to preserve our culture in the face of large amounts of Americanism our neighbour is spitting out, but in reality, it's frustrating for the average consumer. It's why many book releases get delayed in Canada. It's why Canadian TV and movies suck (those made by Canadian companies, even though a large amount of TV shows and movies now are filmed in Canada). Amazon.ca is atrocious. Know those multi-million-dollar Superbowl commercials? Yeah, Canadians don't see those - broadcasters are required, by law, to replace all advertising on American feeds with Canadian ads. It's why Canadian carriers can gouge us in prices - local startups don't have the capital to compete and it's incredibly difficult for an international company to come in and compete.
post #19 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by aestival View Post

Here in Canada we can just buy iPhones unlocked, so why buy one on contract? If you own an iPhone 3 and want an unlocked iPhone, then the iPhone 4 is a much better choice than kludges that free your old phone from contract.

Because of the subsidy. If you buy an unlocked phone, that's great if you travel. But while in Canada, you are still going to pay the same extortionist fees to whatever carrier you choose, whether you are on a contract or not. I've been with my carrier for over a decade, so why would I continue to pay them the same monthly fee and not get some advantage from it, like a $500 subsidy? If you and I were with the same carrier and wanted the same plan, we would pay the same monthly fee. The difference would be you would pay $650 upfront for your phone and I would pay $159, but you could walk away whenever you wanted to. If we both stay for 3 years, you just paid $490 more than me. Additionally, by being on a contract, I can negotiate the same plan for less through their Loss and Retentions dept, so I would end up paying 30-50% less than you. I hate contract, but smart people know how to use them to their advantage.

And if you own an iPhone 3G or 3GS and are at the end of you contract, then you can now pay $50 (too much) and have it factory unlocked. This will substantially boost the resale value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aestival View Post

Even more importantly, what sort of morons are still signing contracts with Rogers? (leaving aside service shortcomings, Rogers don't exactly have a great customer relations record where contracts are involved)

Rogers has far superior plans for retention of long term customers than Bell or Telus. For new customers, they are all the same. They all expect you to bend over and bring your own lube. But, once you have been with them a few months, none of the big carriers can touch the retentions plans from Rogers/Fido. Not even close. Unless you go with one of the new carriers, in which case you won't be using your iPhone (they are AWS) but you will get fantastic plans there. Anyone that stays with Bell or Telus is a sucker that is asking to hand over money.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #20 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by aestival View Post

Here in Canada we can just buy iPhones unlocked, so why buy one on contract? If you own an iPhone 3 and want an unlocked iPhone, then the iPhone 4 is a much better choice than kludges that free your old phone from contract.

Even more importantly, what sort of morons are still signing contracts with Rogers?
(leaving aside service shortcomings, Rogers don't exactly have a great customer relations record where contracts are involved)

Same reason why most of the world gets their cell phones, i.e., the subsidy. In addition, the services are cheaper on a contract.

And as for your last comment, I totally disagree. I bought my first cell Phone virtually the first day the arrived in Canada. Every year I call to see if there is a promotion I can take advantage of. True, in some cases I needed to extend my contract, however, by doing so and grandfathering like I have, for example, I still have free voice evening/weekends starting at 6 PM, and now, my iPhone Basic Data Plan of 6GB @ <$30/month forever. And, a lot cheaper than what it costs in the U.S.A.
post #21 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbarriault View Post

Canada has pretty stringent laws regarding the sale and broadcasting (I think iBookstore counts as both) of non-Canadian works. It's supposed to be an act to preserve our culture in the face of large amounts of Americanism our neighbour is spitting out, but in reality, it's frustrating for the average consumer. It's why many book releases get delayed in Canada. It's why Canadian TV and movies suck (those made by Canadian companies, even though a large amount of TV shows and movies now are filmed in Canada). Amazon.ca is atrocious. Know those multi-million-dollar Superbowl commercials? Yeah, Canadians don't see those - broadcasters are required, by law, to replace all advertising on American feeds with Canadian ads. It's why Canadian carriers can gouge us in prices - local startups don't have the capital to compete and it's incredibly difficult for an international company to come in and compete.

I don't know if the broadcasters are required to replace the US ads, but they are certainly allowed to. The net effect is that even if we are watching a US channel, the ads are replaced. I am not sure if they are replaced by the Canadian cable/satellite company or by the Canadian network that is also broadcasting the same event.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #22 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onhka View Post

(...) In addition, the services are cheaper on a contract.(...)

Rogers offers the exact same advertised plans for month-to-month postpaid customers, as they do for fixed-term contract customers.

They sometimes offer limited-time introductory specials to people who renew for a fixed term, such as unlimited calling during the first month, etc. But those introductory offers never last for the full life of the contract extension, and after the introductory period is over, the fixed-term contract customers and the month-to-month postpaid customers are paying the exact same on all advertised plans.

Now, it's possible that Rogers might offer better retentions offers to fixed-term contract customers than it offers to month-to-month postpaid customers. I don't know. (But that would seem counter-intuitive to me... if you're still covered by a fixed-term contract, than they already have you by the short and curlies with their ETF, so you'd think they could get away with offering less incentive to retain customers who are still under a fixed-term contract, than they would to retain customers who have reached the end of their contract and are on month-to-month postpaid.)

Anyway, for somebody like me, whose monthly usage is extremely low, it turns out that prepaid service is a much better deal than any form of postpaid, either fixed-term or month-to-month. Under postpaid, the cheapest plan I could access was costing me almost $50 per month -- and I never came close to using everything that came with the plan.

Since switching to prepaid, I have not modified my usage habits at all, and yet I've never needed to top up more than $20 per month. Definite win for prepaid for me. (Caveat: I am not a smartphone user.)
post #23 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbarriault View Post

Canada has pretty stringent laws regarding the sale and broadcasting (I think iBookstore counts as both) of non-Canadian works. It's supposed to be an act to preserve our culture in the face of large amounts of Americanism our neighbour is spitting out, but in reality, it's frustrating for the average consumer. It's why many book releases get delayed in Canada. It's why Canadian TV and movies suck (those made by Canadian companies, even though a large amount of TV shows and movies now are filmed in Canada). Amazon.ca is atrocious. Know those multi-million-dollar Superbowl commercials? Yeah, Canadians don't see those - broadcasters are required, by law, to replace all advertising on American feeds with Canadian ads. It's why Canadian carriers can gouge us in prices - local startups don't have the capital to compete and it's incredibly difficult for an international company to come in and compete.

I am a dual citizen living in Quebec. I totally agree with you. It is so frustrating. People should be able to listen, watch and buy what they want and not be restricted by some imaginary idea border floating up into the sky. Same issue with not being able to get DirectTV. Ridiculous!

Telling me I can't have ice cream is not going to make me want broccoli any more. Put them both out there and let me choose.

Now lets hope that the Canadian iBook Store does not have limited content like Amazon.ca but instead is enriched with Canadian authors.

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post #24 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by lfmorrison View Post


Now, it's possible that Rogers might offer better retentions offers to fixed-term contract customers than it offers to month-to-month postpaid customers. I don't know. (But that would seem counter-intuitive to me... if you're still covered by a fixed-term contract, than they already have you by the short and curlies with their ETF, so you'd think they could get away with offering less incentive to retain customers who are still under a fixed-term contract, than they would to retain customers who have reached the end of their contract and are on month-to-month postpaid.)

Rogers' philosophy is that it is better to keep a customer by offering extra discounts and better plans, than to take the ECF. Much more of a long term strategy. Bell and Telus are usually more aggressive with take away offers to new customers (Telus was paying $150 to customer that switched for the iPhone this summer, Bell was giving better than advertised plans to new customers) but they do almost nothing to retain existing customers other than canned retentions plans that are not very compelling. Rogers will only give new customers the advertised retail plans. But they will go pretty far to retain you, even if you are in the middle of a contract. The retentions plans by themselves beat the retail plans by about 30%, but if you negotiate well, they will give you additional discounts on top.
If you are with Rogers and want tips on saving on your plan, see here. I have read of one person there that has about $110 in services and pays $12/month for them (almost impossible, but I have seen his bill-he started the thread). Beat that Bell.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #25 of 56
I've been patiently waiting for the ability to purchase foreign language books, but I'm not sure if this development means access to Québécois writers in the US bookstore.
post #26 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbarriault View Post

Canada has pretty stringent laws regarding the sale and broadcasting (I think iBookstore counts as both) of non-Canadian works. It's supposed to be an act to preserve our culture in the face of large amounts of Americanism our neighbour is spitting out, but in reality, it's frustrating for the average consumer. It's why many book releases get delayed in Canada. It's why Canadian TV and movies suck (those made by Canadian companies, even though a large amount of TV shows and movies now are filmed in Canada). Amazon.ca is atrocious. Know those multi-million-dollar Superbowl commercials? Yeah, Canadians don't see those - broadcasters are required, by law, to replace all advertising on American feeds with Canadian ads. It's why Canadian carriers can gouge us in prices - local startups don't have the capital to compete and it's incredibly difficult for an international company to come in and compete.

It is no different in any other country in the world, including the U.S.A.

There are many great productions in Canada, and for that matter from the UK, France, Germany, Australia and every other country in the world; and they are not unilaterally allowed into the U.S.A. without some government and more important legally contracted agreements with the rightful owners of the creative services/materials. And it doesn't come free.

BTW, those Superbowl commercials are paid for by the advertiser and only appear on the network so contracted.
Quote:
Super Bowl TV commercials why are the ads different?
Television advertisements during the Super Bowl football game get a lot of hype, but we often dont see the same Super Bowl ads in Canada as in the US.

Every year, Canadian stations buy the rights to air the Super Bowl in Canada, but they sell the commercial advertising slots to Canadian advertisers. They replace the ads that Americans see at home.

Even if you get US TV stations that broadcast the Super Bowl, these stations havent bought the rights to broadcast the game or the commercial ads to Canadians. So the American signal carrying the game is usually substituted with a Canadian signal which contains the Canadian ads.

Signal substitution
Signal substitution is when a signal is temporarily replaced by another one. Usually, an American signal is replaced with a Canadian signal. Sometimes, a Canadian signal from outside your area is replaced with a local signal.

Why do it?
When broadcasters buy programs from American or Canadian producers or networks, they pay substantial sums of money to have exclusive rights in their home markets. The simultaneous substitution requirements are designed to protect those rights.

Why substitute the signal?
Canadian television stations usually sell the advertising slots to Canadian advertisers. Sometimes, American advertisers do buy time on Canadian stations. However, there are many reasons why they might choose not to. For example, the American products advertised may not be available in Canada.

http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/info_sht/tv12.htm


post #27 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by lfmorrison View Post

Rogers offers the exact same advertised plans for month-to-month postpaid customers, as they do for fixed-term contract customers.

They sometimes offer limited-time introductory specials to people who renew for a fixed term, such as unlimited calling during the first month, etc. But those introductory offers never last for the full life of the contract extension, and after the introductory period is over, the fixed-term contract customers and the month-to-month postpaid customers are paying the exact same on all advertised plans.

Now, it's possible that Rogers might offer better retentions offers to fixed-term contract customers than it offers to month-to-month postpaid customers. I don't know. (But that would seem counter-intuitive to me... if you're still covered by a fixed-term contract, than they already have you by the short and curlies with their ETF, so you'd think they could get away with offering less incentive to retain customers who are still under a fixed-term contract, than they would to retain customers who have reached the end of their contract and are on month-to-month postpaid.)

Anyway, for somebody like me, whose monthly usage is extremely low, it turns out that prepaid service is a much better deal than any form of postpaid, either fixed-term or month-to-month. Under postpaid, the cheapest plan I could access was costing me almost $50 per month -- and I never came close to using everything that came with the plan.

Since switching to prepaid, I have not modified my usage habits at all, and yet I've never needed to top up more than $20 per month. Definite win for prepaid for me. (Caveat: I am not a smartphone user.)

We are on a family plan and like you, my wife doesn't need a data plan. For her passed down iPhone (after I upgraded), she enjoys all the benefits of the plan, e.g., sharing minutes, at $22 inclusive and we all benefit from her participation which adds additional free voice minutes to the overall plan.
post #28 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Market_Player View Post

Same reason Canada governs it's banking systems...
If I were you, I would stop complaining and just enjoy the book store eh...

'It's'? Education system living up to its reputation I see.
post #29 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

'It's'? Education system living up to its reputation I see.

Like (y)our grammar?
post #30 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doorman. View Post

Still - why do you need an approval of the government to expand a BOOK STORE?
I think the article is not precise enough on what exactly the government did and why it was necessary. Bad article?

It needs approval I believe because the distribution is electronic. I think ebooks probably falls under the CRTC because its electronic media.
post #31 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorD View Post

...And few Americans realize how ridiculously USA-centric their view of the world is.

If anything, the rules are about preserving free speech. It's not exactly difficult to find American-produced content up here in Canada. In fact, we're inundated by it. While I don't necessarily agree with all of their decisions, they make them for a reason. It's not about limiting what people say. It's about making sure that, in Canada, Canadians have a voice loud enough to be heard over the racket from down south.

Am I glad we have the iBookstore in Canada now? Yup. Do I think it should have been allowed sooner? Possibly. Do I think the government got positive concessions out of Apple, that will improve Canadian free speech, by holding out? Absolutely!

Wow...just wow.. rare to see such BS leak from mind to board..well not really.. but this is still one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever seen.

The rules are not about preserving free speech in Canada. It's make work, and handicapping Canadian content providers.

Inundated by American content? I wish! Ever browsed through the Canadian itunes for Movies?..how about the Canadian Netflix?.. or Amazon.ca? The content is disgraceful thanks to these "champions of free speech" you so love and respect.

And about your "having our Canadian voice heard over the racket from the south" comment...just baffles me. In a free market the best product, service, content etc will be embraced because it is the best. It goes against the free market to bar someones content, and force someones else's content down our throuts..truly despicable.

To simplify, for your rudimentary knowledge of this issue I will explain this in basic terms!

Most Canadian content sucks, a lot of American content is great. I don't want our government dictating the content available to me.

Thats the issue
post #32 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhende7 View Post

Wow...just wow.. rare to see such BS leak from mind to board..well not really.. but this is still one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever seen.

The rules are not about preserving free speech in Canada. It's make work, and handicapping Canadian content providers.

Inundated by American content? I wish! Ever browsed through the Canadian itunes for Movies?..how about the Canadian Netflix?.. or Amazon.ca? The content is disgraceful thanks to these "champions of free speech" you so love and respect.

And about your "having our Canadian voice heard over the racket from the south" comment...just baffles me. In a free market the best product, service, content etc will be embraced because it is the best. It goes against the free market to bar someones content, and force someones else's content down our throuts..truly despicable.

To simplify, for your rudimentary knowledge of this issue I will explain this in basic terms!

Most Canadian content sucks, a lot of American content is great. I don't want our government dictating the content available to me.

Thats the issue

No to get too political, but the OP shows the results of the post-Trudeau liberal educational system. We were all raised being taught that the US will dominate us and our culture and that we must be protected from this catastrophe through CanCon regulations. The OP simply still buys into that BS.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #33 of 56
I am really skeptical of some of the claims about unlocking here. Wind uses the 1700 MHz band (same as T-Mobile USA). The only way a Wind SIM would work in his iPhone is if he was roaming (Wind AWAY) the entire time. He certainly could not get Wind Home since Wind does not have a 2G network that's compatible with the iPhone like T-Mobile does in the US.

In any event, unlocking an iPhone after 3 years on contract is pretty useless anyway. I suppose if you want to sport an out-of-date overweight iPod Touch, it might not be a bad idea.

And more broadly, given the entrance of new carriers like Wind Mobile into the Canadian market, the premium for an iPhone (or any smartphone from the Big 3...but all iPhone sales are by the Big 3) is just spectacular. Too rich for my blood, when the new guys are offering plans like this:

http://www2.windmobile.ca/en/Pages/u...ktextdata.aspx

And that comes with an offer of $150 off on a phone, which itself can be combined with a BOGO free offer for Blackberrys.

Compare that to Fido (a Rogers flanker brand):

http://www.fido.ca/web/content/monthly/iphoneplans

Even if you get a retentions plans on Rogers or Fido, you're still paying around $70 for any reasonable voice/text/data plan on an iPhone. And that's already $5 higher than what Mobilicity charges for their most expensive plan which includes global texting and unlimited US calling in addition to unlimited data:

http://mobilicity.ca/plans/

Total cost of ownership for an iphone is easily at least $500-$1000 more over the 3 years that somebody is with the Big 3 vs. getting an Android or Blackberry with Wind or Mobilicity. I really hope the user experience for the iPhone is worth that premium. And I also hope that Apple (and other smartphone makers) will someday help the newbies (and T-Mo USA) out by deploying quadband 3G chips that include the 1700 MHz band (like Nokia's N8).
post #34 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

I am really skeptical of some of the claims about unlocking here. Wind uses the 1700 MHz band (same as T-Mobile USA). The only way a Wind SIM would work in his iPhone is if he was roaming (Wind AWAY) the entire time. He certainly could not get Wind Home since Wind does not have a 2G network that's compatible with the iPhone like T-Mobile does in the US.

In any event, unlocking an iPhone after 3 years on contract is pretty useless anyway. I suppose if you want to sport an out-of-date overweight iPod Touch, it might not be a bad idea.

And more broadly, given the entrance of new carriers like Wind Mobile into the Canadian market, the premium for an iPhone (or any smartphone from the Big 3...but all iPhone sales are by the Big 3) is just spectacular. Too rich for my blood, when the new guys are offering plans like this:

http://www2.windmobile.ca/en/Pages/u...ktextdata.aspx

Compare that to Fido (a Rogers flanker brand):

http://www.fido.ca/web/content/monthly/iphoneplans

Total cost of ownership for an iphone is easily at least $500-$1000 more over the 3 years that somebody is with the Big 3 vs. getting an Android or Blackberry with Wind or Mobilicity. I really hope the user experience for the iPhone is worth that premium. And I also hope that Apple (and other smartphone makers) will someday help the newbies (and T-Mo USA) out by deploying quadband 3G chips that include the 1700 MHz band (like Nokia's N8).

Agree with all your points, except that, until recently, it was actually possible to get a retentions plan through Rogers/Fido that was very, very competitive with the new players. There was still a premium for being on the established network, but you could still get reasonably close.

My plan is $50 and for that I unlimited calling and texting from anywhere in Canada on the Rogers network to anywhere in Canada or the US, I have 6GB of data with tethering included, Visual voice mail, 2500 call forwarding minutes to Canada or the US, caller ID. For all intents and purposes it is essentially unlimited for me. I have never gone much over 3 GB of usage in a month. Yes, I could get the same for $40 with Wind right now (except it is truly unlimited data), but then I would lose being able to use it in every Canadian city (instead of the 5 that Wind covers), coverage in rural Canada, visual voice mail, and faster data speeds. I also would not be able to use my iPhone 4, so that by itself is pretty much worth the extra $10 for me. Unfortunately, it seems Rogers is cracking down a bit on the retentions plans recently so plans like mine might not be reproducible anymore.

And yes, unlocking after your subsidy ends might be useless except that the resale value of an Apple unlocked (which is what this is) will be much higher than a locked or exploit unlocked phone. But, that is why I got my subsidized iPhone 4 unlocked yesterday

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #35 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhende7 View Post

Wow...just wow.. rare to see such BS leak from mind to board..well not really.. but this is still one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever seen.

The rules are not about preserving free speech in Canada. It's make work, and handicapping Canadian content providers.

Inundated by American content? I wish! Ever browsed through the Canadian itunes for Movies?..how about the Canadian Netflix?.. or Amazon.ca? The content is disgraceful thanks to these "champions of free speech" you so love and respect.

And about your "having our Canadian voice heard over the racket from the south" comment...just baffles me. In a free market the best product, service, content etc will be embraced because it is the best. It goes against the free market to bar someones content, and force someones else's content down our throuts..truly despicable.

To simplify, for your rudimentary knowledge of this issue I will explain this in basic terms!

Most Canadian content sucks, a lot of American content is great. I don't want our government dictating the content available to me.

Thats the issue

You must be from Alberta.

I'm sorry but most Canadians will disagree with you. Protection of our culture is an important issue. When you have a country of 35 million people living beside a behemoth that's 10 times the size and a global economic and cultural superpower, you do need laws that preserve your identity. It's bad enough that we are more economically dependant on the US than at any other point in our history. There's no need for our culture to be completely Americanized too.

And I don't buy that these laws are restrictive at all. The laws do not restrict foreign content. They merely require content distributors to offer up and promote Canadian content as well. And when it comes to things like books, Heritage Canada is actually far more accomodating than it is with music, tv shows, movies, etc. It's just that most companies don't even want to make the token effort to actually promote Canadian content. They prefer to apply a global template for their stores to every country including Canada. Sorry, but that's just not acceptable to most Canadians. Bravo to Apple for stepping up. Jeers to you for selling out your homeland so easily.
post #36 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

You must be from Alberta.

I'm sorry but most Canadians will disagree with you. Protection of our culture is an important issue. When you have a country of 35 million people living beside a behemoth that's 10 times the size and a global economic and cultural superpower, you do need laws that preserve your identity. It's bad enough that we are more economically dependant on the US than at any other point in our history. There's no need for our culture to be completely Americanized too.

And I don't buy that these laws are restrictive at all. The laws do not restrict foreign content. They merely require content distributors to offer up and promote Canadian content as well. And when it comes to things like books, Heritage Canada is actually far more accomodating than it is with music, tv shows, movies, etc. It's just that most companies don't even want to make the token effort to actually promote Canadian content. They prefer to apply a global template for their stores to every country including Canada. Sorry, but that's just not acceptable to most Canadians. Bravo to Apple for stepping up. Jeers to you for selling out your homeland so easily.

Sorry, those are the same arguments used to defend Quebec's draconian language laws. France has similar insecurities about their culture.

Canada has always been unable to really define their culture anyway. CanCon laws never were really protecting Canadian culture. They were about protecting Canadian businesses. The identical material is acceptable as Canadian, as long as it is produced in Canada or by Canadians. Culture has nothing to do with this. I thought people woke up to that fact. Guess not.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #37 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Agree with all your points, except that, until recently, it was actually possible to get a retentions plan through Rogers/Fido that was very, very competitive with the new players. There was still a premium for being on the established network, but you could still get reasonably close.

My plan is $50 and for that I unlimited calling and texting from anywhere in Canada on the Rogers network to anywhere in Canada or the US, I have 6GB of data with tethering included, Visual voice mail, 2500 call forwarding minutes to Canada or the US, caller ID. For all intents and purposes it is essentially unlimited for me. I have never gone much over 3 GB of usage in a month. Yes, I could get the same for $40 with Wind right now (except it is truly unlimited data), but then I would lose being able to use it in every Canadian city (instead of the 5 that Wind covers), coverage in rural Canada, visual voice mail, and faster data speeds. I also would not be able to use my iPhone 4, so that by itself is pretty much worth the extra $10 for me. Unfortunately, it seems Rogers is cracking down a bit on the retentions plans recently so plans like mine might not be reproducible anymore.

That's an amazing retentions plan. I doubt most iPhone owners are anywhere close to as lucky as you are. Indeed, I don't know a single iPhone owner that has a base bill less than $60 a month (most are in the $70-$90 range) and none have anywhere near what you have (a couple got lucky getting the 6GB for $30 per month special).

It is sad though that Rogers is cracking down on its existing customers. They seem to be making up for their 24% drop in profits last year by squeezing existing customers on contract even more. At this point I am almost inclined to say that anybody who has a smartphone on the Big 3 either has more money than sense (present company excepted) or lives in the sticks and Wind hasn't gotten to them yet (5 cities and growing....Winnipeg and Saskatoon are seeing towers being tested). Heck, Wind's Toronto home zone now runs from Oshawa to Niagara falls and Hamilton and up to the northern edges of York region. And it's quickly reaching the point where most major Canadian cities (save those in Quebec) will be covered, so unless there's a lot of rural travel involved, it's conceivable that in a year you'll be able to travel a fair bit in Canada and stay on Wind HOME the whole time.

I do like unlimited not because I use the phone a ton but because my usage varies. I used 10 GB during the World Cup watching games using Flash off the CBC website on my phone. I used to only have 200 daytime minutes with Rogers....not much when evenings start at 7pm. That averages to less than 10 mins a day. A few daytime calls dealing with some important issue with the bank or car company or something and you get a massive overage bill. It's moments like that when unlimited with no time-of-day restrictions helps a lot.

Last point...on the faster data speeds part. I actually don't find much real world difference between Wind and Rogers. Mobilicity's data is terribly slow though.

For me personally, the plan is more important than the phone. I will never consider leaving Wind, especially with this plan. The equivalent on Rogers would cost $100-$150 per month. An iPhone on Wind would be phenomenal and a game changer for the Canadian wireless sector. Sadly, that'll never happen without T-Mo USA getting the iPhone, a scenario which looks really remote. For that reason, the iPhone isn't even on the table for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

And yes, unlocking after your subsidy ends might be useless except that the resale value of an Apple unlocked (which is what this is) will be much higher than a locked or exploit unlocked phone. But, that is why I got my subsidized iPhone 4 unlocked yesterday

Is the increase in value enough to overcome the depreciation of a 3 year old iPhone? And this is not a dig at the iPhone....it's more a dig at the Big 3 and their ridiculous 3 year contracts.
post #38 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

That's an amazing retentions plan. I doubt most iPhone owners are anywhere close to as lucky as you are. Indeed, I don't know a single iPhone owner that has a base bill less than $60 a month (most are in the $70-$90 range) and none have anywhere near what you have (a couple got lucky getting the 6GB for $30 per month special).

It is sad though that Rogers is cracking down on its existing customers. They seem to be making up for their 24% drop in profits last year by squeezing existing customers on contract even more. At this point I am almost inclined to say that anybody who has a smartphone on the Big 3 either has more money than sense (present company excepted) or lives in the sticks and Wind hasn't gotten to them yet (5 cities and growing....Winnipeg and Saskatoon are seeing towers being tested). Heck, Wind's Toronto home zone now runs from Oshawa to Niagara falls and Hamilton and up to the northern edges of York region. And it's quickly reaching the point where most major Canadian cities (save those in Quebec) will be covered, so unless there's a lot of rural travel involved, it's conceivable that in a year you'll be able to travel a fair bit in Canada and stay on Wind HOME the whole time.

It is a great plan and would have been hard to get even when retentions was more lenient. But, you are 100% correct that they are cracking down in order to make up for the drop in profits. Unfortunately for Rogers customers, Rogers is addicted to and believes it is their god given right to have ridiculously high margins. They are losing many customers to Wind and they have no intentions of massively reducing prices to win new customers themselves. They have become spoiled in an environment of collusion where Canadian carriers have an unspoken agreement not to poach customers. This is why the big three are the most profitable carriers in the world and why their churn rate is so far below other countries. But, in the face of new competition that is reducing their revenues, instead of competing and tying to win new customers aggressively, they appear to be confused. So, they decide to try to take more from customers that stay (new Rogers rule for smartphones: you must have $60 minimum plan). It will bite them in the ass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

I do like unlimited not because I use the phone a ton but because my usage varies. I used 10 GB during the World Cup watching games using Flash off the CBC website on my phone. I used to only have 200 daytime minutes with Rogers....not much when evenings start at 7pm. That averages to less than 10 mins a day. A few daytime calls dealing with some important issue with the bank or car company or something and you get a massive overage bill. It's moments like that when unlimited with no time-of-day restrictions helps a lot.

Then it works great for you. I push hard but have never broken 4 GB and rarely go much over 3GB. Maybe if I tethered more often

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Last point...on the faster data speeds part. I actually don't find much real world difference between Wind and Rogers. Mobilicity's data is terribly slow though.

Good to know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

For me personally, the plan is more important than the phone. I will never consider leaving Wind, especially with this plan. The equivalent on Rogers would cost $100-$150 per month. An iPhone on Wind would be phenomenal and a game changer for the Canadian wireless sector. Sadly, that'll never happen without T-Mo USA getting the iPhone, a scenario which looks really remote. For that reason, the iPhone isn't even on the table for me.

The plan should always be more important. But, at the same time, I want what I want. Two things would make switch to Wind. 1) they need to cover my area, which they do not (sort of important) and 2) they need to be iPhone compatible. Number 2 is probably vanity, but I like the iPhone and will stay with a carrier for it, unless the competition completely kills them and beats my existing plan by alot. The other advantages of staying with Rogers are nice, but not deal breaks, especially as Wind grows.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Is the increase in value enough to overcome the depreciation of a 3 year old iPhone? And this is not a dig at the iPhone....it's more a dig at the Big 3 and their ridiculous 3 year contracts.

No, but it enough to perhaps double the deprecated value.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #39 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

It needs approval I believe because the distribution is electronic. I think ebooks probably falls under the CRTC because its electronic media.

From the Canadian Heritage website:

"The Government of Canada ordered a review to determine if the investment by Apple Canada would be of net benefit to Canada. Under the Investment Canada Act, all reviews and approvals of investments in the cultural sector are the responsibility of the Minister of Canadian Heritage."
post #40 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

You must be from Alberta.

I'm sorry but most Canadians will disagree with you. Protection of our culture is an important issue. When you have a country of 35 million people living beside a behemoth that's 10 times the size and a global economic and cultural superpower, you do need laws that preserve your identity. It's bad enough that we are more economically dependant on the US than at any other point in our history. There's no need for our culture to be completely Americanized too.

And I don't buy that these laws are restrictive at all. The laws do not restrict foreign content. They merely require content distributors to offer up and promote Canadian content as well. And when it comes to things like books, Heritage Canada is actually far more accomodating than it is with music, tv shows, movies, etc. It's just that most companies don't even want to make the token effort to actually promote Canadian content. They prefer to apply a global template for their stores to every country including Canada. Sorry, but that's just not acceptable to most Canadians. Bravo to Apple for stepping up. Jeers to you for selling out your homeland so easily.

Complete rubbish, and spoken like a true leftist Canadian. Your essentially saying that we should put up artificial barriers to block external content so that our local content stands a chance...riiiiiight.

Ok, so along those lines, we should probably not allow the U.S to participate in the next Summer Olympics, because they are 10 times bigger, have depth of talent and it won't give our Canadian athletes a chance to shine.

We should also probably physically close our borders to prevent foreign made goods from entering Canada that compete with home made products, or to prevent Canadians from vacationing out of county..because you know, that wouldn't support Canadian vacation destinations.

Also, we should probably turn a blind eye to any medical breakthroughs that occur outside our borders. After all, we want to give OUR doctors a chance to find cures for all the horrible diseases that plague humanity.

This has nothing to do with "cultural identity", it has everything to do with censorship, taking away choice, and artificially promoting local content that's crap.

Let Canadian content, products, or services stand on their own because of their superiority in the global marketplace, not because this/these content, products, or services are the only options for Canadians.

I'm a proud resident of Ontario..a proud resident of Canada, and I value freedom in all ways, shapes and forms. These archaic local content practices are a stark contrast to these freedoms.

Let Canadian companies make the team because they have the skills, not because they were the only ones allowed to tryout!
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