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Demand for all-in-one PCs surges as Apple's iMac leads the way - Page 2

post #41 of 62
12/15/10 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by xSamplex View Post

Hopefully there'll be some good all-in-ones that don't include the Apple tax!

What you call an "Apple Tax", I call a "PC Firesale". How else can they sell junk systems?

Troll elsewhere.
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post #42 of 62
12/15/10 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mytdave View Post

Exactly. My company's IT keeps the monitor until it dies (or until the employees get sooo tired of looking at a 17" screen that it meets up with a timely 'accident'), and they replace the box every 3 years, although the box is now black instead of beige.

Same here. I inherited my current Mitsubishi 21" CRT monitor NINE YEARS AGO. I have no idea how long it was in use before then.

I've had 4 different laptops over the years. My IT department won't replace the monitor until it dies. And then I think they will replace it with a 17" LCD.
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post #43 of 62
12/15/10 at 10:59am
Damn, enough with the AIOs already!

Look. I KNOW most people don't upgrade their computer's internals. I KNOW people want an "It Just Works" experience. I want an "It Just Works" experience...

But, I'm a practical guy... maybe too practical. If it weren't for the GPU and CPU, a computer could last, maybe 8 years. Why do I say 8? Because the last Mac I bought was my circa 2002 G4 iMac desklamp. For E-mail and browsing, it's still perfect. For anything else? Not a chance. The GPU was outdated by '04 (and that's even being generous), and the 800MHz G4, well, it's not the greatest, but it certainly does simple tasks.

The short of it is that if people would be able to upgrade those components once during a computer's life, its life-cycle would be doubled. And performing the replacement (the GPU, at least) is really rather trivial.

I take a look at my PC tower. I've been running on the same hardware for roughly four years already. For $50 I doubled my RAM, and for another $260, I'll more than quadruple the GPU power. And installing those things couldn't be easier. Literally. I'd be surprised if my grandmother couldn't replace a graphics card, and she has dementia. For a little over $300, I'll have nearly a brand new PC... and I'll have exactly what I need, no more, and no less.

"So you want an upgradeable Mac? Get a MacPro." I don't NEED fully-buffered RAM, I don't NEED freaking DUAL Xeon processors, I don't NEED a kajillion flippity flops -- Who on earth NEEDS that, unless you're in Final Cut all day?

Like I said, I'm too practical to for a MacPro. I'm too practical for a non-upgradeable iMac.

I just need a tower that can grow with me as my needs grow. And I need it to "Just Work."

So, Apple... build us an xMac. I neeeeeeeeeeeeeed it! My iMac is begging for death, so let me put it to soft, sweet sleep already! May it pass the torch to a new Mac -- one that will actually suit my needs and not the hundred things I don't need.

-Clive
My Mod: G4 Cube + Atom 330 CPU + Wiimote = Ultimate HTPC!
(Might I recommend the Libertarian Party as a good compromise between the equally terrible "DnR"?)
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My Mod: G4 Cube + Atom 330 CPU + Wiimote = Ultimate HTPC!
(Might I recommend the Libertarian Party as a good compromise between the equally terrible "DnR"?)
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post #44 of 62
12/15/10 at 11:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

Damn, enough with the AIOs already!

Look. I KNOW most people don't upgrade their computer's internals. I KNOW people want an "It Just Works" experience. I want an "It Just Works" experience...

But, I'm a practical guy... maybe too practical. If it weren't for the GPU and CPU, a computer could last, maybe 8 years. Why do I say 8? Because the last Mac I bought was my circa 2002 G4 iMac desklamp. For E-mail and browsing, it's still perfect. For anything else? Not a chance. The GPU was outdated by '04 (and that's even being generous), and the 800MHz G4, well, it's not the greatest, but it certainly does simple tasks.

The short of it is that if people would be able to upgrade those components once during a computer's life, its life-cycle would be doubled. And performing the replacement (the GPU, at least) is really rather trivial.

I take a look at my PC tower. I've been running on the same hardware for roughly four years already. For $50 I doubled my RAM, and for another $260, I'll more than quadruple the GPU power. And installing those things couldn't be easier. Literally. I'd be surprised if my grandmother couldn't replace a graphics card, and she has dementia. For a little over $300, I'll have nearly a brand new PC... and I'll have exactly what I need, no more, and no less.

"So you want an upgradeable Mac? Get a MacPro." I don't NEED fully-buffered RAM, I don't NEED freaking DUAL Xeon processors, I don't NEED a kajillion flippity flops -- Who on earth NEEDS that, unless you're in Final Cut all day?

Like I said, I'm too practical to for a MacPro. I'm too practical for a non-upgradeable iMac.

I just need a tower that can grow with me as my needs grow. And I need it to "Just Work."

So, Apple... build us an xMac. I neeeeeeeeeeeeeed it! My iMac is begging for death, so let me put it to soft, sweet sleep already! May it pass the torch to a new Mac -- one that will actually suit my needs and not the hundred things I don't need.

-Clive

Before becoming an Apple customer a three years ago, I built my own PC rigs for about 18 of those years, and built many for other friends. Coolermaster cases, high-end NVidia, etc..

Always built PC's that were top of the line for their day. Problem was that when the next jump came, I could not upgrade the Video card without upgrading the motherboard. I could not upgrade the motherboard without upgrading the CPU, RAM, and so on. While it was a lot of fun for me, in the end I was tired of continuously "upgrading" my rigs. In the end, they were essentially new machines again price-wise. As I got older, the advantages I saw began to diminish. If I build a new rig every four years, may as well buy a new machine.

Occasionally I get the urge to build another rig, simply because it was fun. That lasts for about 30 seconds, then I turn on my modern i7 iMac, or my new MBA, and then I smile.
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post #45 of 62
12/15/10 at 11:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

Before becoming an Apple customer a three years ago, I built my own PC rigs for about 18 of those years, and built many for other friends. Coolermaster cases, high-end NVidia, etc..

Always built PC's that were top of the line for their day. Problem was that when the next jump came, I could not upgrade the Video card without upgrading the motherboard. I could not upgrade the motherboard without upgrading the CPU, RAM, and so on. While it was a lot of fun for me, in the end I was tired of continuously "upgrading" my rigs. In the end, they were essentially new machines again price-wise. As I got older, the advantages I saw began to diminish. If I build a new rig every four years, may as well buy a new machine.

Occasionally I get the urge to build another rig, simply because it was fun. That lasts for about 30 seconds, then I turn on my modern i7 iMac, or my new MBA, and then I smile.

I've been a satisfied Apple customer for decades... until my needs grew into those of a "prosumer." Since then, I've been forced to use PCs... sure I tried building Hackintoshes, etc, but I want something that "JUST WORKS!" So I continue to build my own PCs... (the trick, by the way) is to buy early and late in the same generation, then skip the next generation entirely. )

I would kill to be satisfied with an iMac... but I can't. It kills me to replace an entire computer (in the case of an AIO) when just one component is out of date... especially something that is easy to replace, like a GPU. And to buy something with a monitor (embedded or otherwise!) when I have a perfectly good one already? I'm not cheap... just prudent.

-Clive
My Mod: G4 Cube + Atom 330 CPU + Wiimote = Ultimate HTPC!
(Might I recommend the Libertarian Party as a good compromise between the equally terrible "DnR"?)
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My Mod: G4 Cube + Atom 330 CPU + Wiimote = Ultimate HTPC!
(Might I recommend the Libertarian Party as a good compromise between the equally terrible "DnR"?)
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post #46 of 62
12/15/10 at 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Who even makes an all-in-one PC besides Apple and a couple of HP models?

I don't see how it makes sense to say that Apple is missing out on 60% of the "All-in-one" market. Who are the other vendors?

It's kind of a stupid designation anyway ("all-in-one").

Except for towers, all computers are "all-in-ones." All rack mount computers, all laptops, all mobiles, all tablets, etc. etc. It's kind of a meaningless metric to measure when you think about it.

Huh?

It's not meaningless, All-in-one usually refers to desktop computers that have a built-in monitor. This is carried over from days before laptop, tablets, mobiles were around.

Except for towers!? Umm, the Mac mini isn't an AIO or a tower, neither is the Dell Inspiron.

Just about every manufacturer sells a desktop system that's not a tower. And just about every manufacturer makes an All-In-One as well.


Good lord dude, do you even bother to look things up before you post or is your ignorance complete bliss?
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #47 of 62
12/15/10 at 12:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

I've been a satisfied Apple customer for decades... until my needs grew into those of a "prosumer." Since then, I've been forced to use PCs... sure I tried building Hackintoshes, etc, but I want something that "JUST WORKS!" So I continue to build my own PCs... (the trick, by the way) is to buy early and late in the same generation, then skip the next generation entirely. )

-Clive

I don't understand why you can't just buy a used Mac Pro? Go buy the original MacIntel Pro, they're about 4 years old now and should be fairly cheap. Then you can upgrade as much as you wanted.

My brother used to upgrade his PC's all the time until he discovered that a component here and a component there amounted to about the same price as just buying a completely new computer over that period of upgrades.
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #48 of 62
12/15/10 at 12:56pm
The only time I yell at my clients is when they attempt to touch my display. Then they get a very dirty look and a lecture.
Having a touch/display desktop is probably the worst idea I've ever heard. Unless it came with 'display wipers' like a car...

How many of you have refused to use someones iPad because you don't don't want to run your finger over the cesspool of grease, boogers, food... especially if it's a young single guy's... lets not go there.

I for one, look forward to the end of the 'touch' revolution, and will welcome the 'motion' interfaces. Kinda like in the movie 'Minority Report', and what we are seeing with the Wii and kinect.
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post #49 of 62
12/15/10 at 1:01pm
I have an HP TouchSmart PC in my kitchen and it works great. Steve is as wrong about this as he is about leaving Bluray out of Macs so he can push his iTunes agenda.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbsteph View Post

Apple already sells a trackpad that works very well with an iMac ($69). Regarding a touchscreen, I would tend to agree with the Steve Jobs quote cited in the article.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

The only time I yell at my clients is when they attempt to touch my display. Then they get a very dirty look and a lecture.
Having a touch/display desktop is probably the worst idea I've ever heard. Unless it came with 'display wipers' like a car...

How many of you have refused to use someones iPad because you don't don't want to run your finger over the cesspool of grease, boogers, food... especially if it's a young single guy's... lets not go there.

I for one, look forward to the end of the 'touch' revolution, and will welcome the 'motion' interfaces. Kinda like in the movie 'Minority Report', and what we are seeing with the Wii and kinect.
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post #50 of 62
12/15/10 at 1:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xSamplex View Post

Hopefully there'll be some good all-in-ones that don't include the Apple tax!

The PC world does the separate box and monitor very well, but until recently many all-in-one PCs have either been more expensive than a comparable iMac or equally priced but poorly equipped.
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post #51 of 62
12/15/10 at 2:47pm

deleted


Edited by MacRulez - 5/4/12 at 12:53pm
"Surely it is possible to love Apple products and still respect what others have achieved?" - Stelligent
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"Surely it is possible to love Apple products and still respect what others have achieved?" - Stelligent
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post #52 of 62
12/15/10 at 3:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post

How about not? Desktop computers with touchscreens have been around for 30 years or more. If you monitor does not have enough smudges and if your arms are not fatigued enough, then the touchscreen monitor is for you. Otherwise, you should stick with a mouse or track pad.

Amen. I have enough problem keeping the screen clean. Bad enough when people want to point to something on the screen and smudge it.

A small handheld device is different. Can be more easily cleaned, for one thing. The day desktop computers go to touchscreens is the day i start stockpiling antique computers.
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post #53 of 62
12/15/10 at 3:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xSamplex View Post

Hopefully there'll be some good all-in-ones that don't include the Apple tax!

You are truly clueless. You should really do some research and / or get yourself an education before you make such inane comments. It has been shown time and time again that there is no such thing as an "apple tax". When you factor in things like quality, included software, superior OS requiring less of a learning curve and more up time due to ease of use, intuitiveness and reliability, resale value, superior customer support, etc. etc. etc., these machines provide the best value in the market. They just don't build cheap inferior computers at low price points.
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post #54 of 62
12/15/10 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

I've been a satisfied Apple customer for decades... until my needs grew into those of a "prosumer." Since then, I've been forced to use PCs... sure I tried building Hackintoshes, etc, but I want something that "JUST WORKS!" So I continue to build my own PCs... (the trick, by the way) is to buy early and late in the same generation, then skip the next generation entirely. )

I would kill to be satisfied with an iMac... but I can't. It kills me to replace an entire computer (in the case of an AIO) when just one component is out of date... especially something that is easy to replace, like a GPU. And to buy something with a monitor (embedded or otherwise!) when I have a perfectly good one already? I'm not cheap... just prudent.

-Clive

This argument is such bullshit for one simple reason, the incredible resale value of a mac. If you need the latest and greatest, you just sell your existing Mac. It is in fact that simple. So please, get a life.
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post #55 of 62
12/15/10 at 3:38pm
I can agree with the title. I built pc after pc for years.
I would upgrade video cards, memory, etc time after time.
I recently went to the new iMac 27" i5 with 8GB DDR 3 and 1GB video card and couldn't be more happy.

If you price a tower, monitor (a GOOD one, like comes with the iMac), and ALL the individual parts, add in price of FULL RETAIL windows 7 and Full retail of ms office, make sure the tower you choose isn't a $29 piece of crap ( go with $150-$200 case ) to match the quality of the aluminum iMac case. You will find that pc is just as much as the iMac.
There is no apple tax. The one I just "made" on newegg wishlist that matches the iMac came to $2200 w/windows 7 and office and that was using the $500 monitor not the nicer ips iMac display.
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post #56 of 62
12/15/10 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

I have an HP TouchSmart PC in my kitchen and it works great. Steve is as wrong about this as he is about leaving Bluray out of Macs so he can push his iTunes agenda.

Yeh, like you do a lot of heavy computing in your kitchen! What a ridiculous example. The reason touchscreens are a non-starter on your main monitor is quite simple. It is neither efficient, nor comfortable, to be fully extending your arm all the time. It is ergonomically the worst possible configuration for manipulation of data for normal applications.
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post #57 of 62
12/15/10 at 4:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

I don't understand why you can't just buy a used Mac Pro? Go buy the original MacIntel Pro, they're about 4 years old now and should be fairly cheap. Then you can upgrade as much as you wanted.

My brother used to upgrade his PC's all the time until he discovered that a component here and a component there amounted to about the same price as just buying a completely new computer over that period of upgrades.

Sadly 4 year old used Mac Pros still fetch unreasonably high prices close to double that of iMacs with similar performance specs and are even less likely than a hackintosh to be capable of booting 10.7.

Whether buying periodic upgrades or a whole new machine is better depends on the user's requirements and desires. Someone who has need or want of a new feeling machine on a regular basis would feel suffocated by anything except a tower.

From 1992-2000 every Mac I bought received some form of CPU acceleration, additional RAM and a new hard drive or drives. Some got new video cards and some received upgraded optical drives to add speed and additional features like CD burning. The cost of upgrades sure added up, but at the same time they delayed my purchase of replacement computers so cost wise it was probably a wash and I got to satisfy my upgrade lust a lot more frequently.

Starting in 2001 with my first G4 tower I stopped buying any upgrades other than RAM and hard drives. My computer was usually fast enough for daily use so there wasn't the same urgency to upgrade constantly. In between computer purchases I sometimes indulged in a new display. I have purchased 14 Macs for myself and my family over the years and on only 2 occasions in the early 1990's did I get a display at the same time.

Which finally brings me back to the topic of all-in-one computers. Clearly I don't like being stuck getting a display when I buy a computer, especially one that someone else thinks I should have.

Apple has me over a barrel. The mini is barely adequate and not good value for money, my wife won't stand for a hackintosh and the Mac Pro costs way too much. All that's left is all-in-one (iMac or notebook).
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post #58 of 62
12/15/10 at 5:20pm
PC makers are now seeing the light in the tidy market, this tells me towers could die down to low hard core users, but this will depend upon the lower price for all in ones and the quality grade of parts in them! two important factors for PC AIO to skyrocket...

This is very good news for mac users, in terms of price of the future, like with all things in demand (the parts that make the products) production ramps up > price goes down, if Apple can make iMac for less the price maybe get lower and lower over time....

But we all know windows is shit, its been shit for many years now, copy cats are never solid from the ground up. PC will be the crapper offering in the AIO market, yet again another Apple product changing the industry!
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post #59 of 62
12/15/10 at 8:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"Surging demand" has led to increased component orders from manufacturers of all-in-one desktop PCs, a market where Apple's iMac is the top seller.

.



No surprises here!
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post #60 of 62
12/15/10 at 8:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wurm5150 View Post

How about having both touchscreen and a trackpad for the next Macs..

Pretend for a couple of hours that your Mac has a touch screen. Report back how your neck and shoulders feel after a session.
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post #61 of 62
12/16/10 at 7:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Which OS do you run on them?

My PC is running Windows 7, which actually isn't that bad. Huge improvement over Vista... Even an improvement over XP, and that's saying a lot.

My latest Hackintosh was running Leopard 10.5.3, I think. Since I was not using a vanilla install, I can't update to 10.5.8 or whatever... I've been considering upgrading to Snow... there's even a vanilla Retail DVD guide for my board... I just need a spare hard drive and several hours to kill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

This argument is such bullshit for one simple reason, the incredible resale value of a mac. If you need the latest and greatest, you just sell your existing Mac. It is in fact that simple. So please, get a life.

HA. Said like one with true fanboy-colored glasses. I will give you the fact that the resale value is better than that of a generic PC, yes, but so great that it's cost-competitive with upgrading my tower once every few years? Not a chance.

"Get a life." HAH. Oh, man, what an insult...
My Mod: G4 Cube + Atom 330 CPU + Wiimote = Ultimate HTPC!
(Might I recommend the Libertarian Party as a good compromise between the equally terrible "DnR"?)
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My Mod: G4 Cube + Atom 330 CPU + Wiimote = Ultimate HTPC!
(Might I recommend the Libertarian Party as a good compromise between the equally terrible "DnR"?)
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post #62 of 62
12/16/10 at 1:32pm

deleted


Edited by MacRulez - 5/4/12 at 12:53pm
"Surely it is possible to love Apple products and still respect what others have achieved?" - Stelligent
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"Surely it is possible to love Apple products and still respect what others have achieved?" - Stelligent
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