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Nokia expands legal battle with Apple, files new lawsuits in Europe

post #1 of 26
12/16/10 at 6:59am
Thread Starter 
Nokia announced on Thursday that it has filed new patent infringement claims against Apple in courts in the U.K., Germany, and the Netherlands.

The latest filings are just another addition to the numerous legal battles both Apple and Nokia have filed against each other. Each has accused the other of violating patents related to mobile phones and multi-touch devices.

"The Nokia inventions protected by these patents include... a wiping gesture on a touch screen to navigate content, or enabling access to constantly changing services with an on-device app store, both filed more than ten years before the launch of the iPhone," said Paul Melin, vice president of intellectual property with Nokia.

In November it was revealed that Apple is bolstering its legal team in response to a plethora of lawsuits it is involved in with other companies, including Nokia, HTC and Motorola.

In its fight with Nokia, Apple has argued that the Finnish handset maker has infringed on 13 patents related to a variety of technologies, including graphical user interface and booting of a handset. In return, Nokia has accused Apple of 10 patent violations.

Apple also expanded its complaints against Nokia to the United Kingdom in September. The first shot in the legal battle between the two companies fired by Nokia last October, when it accused Apple's iPhone of violating patents related to GSM and wireless LAN technology.

Apple then responded to Nokia with its own lawsuit, accusing the Finnish company of infringing on iPhone-related patents.

The battle of the two smartphone giants is expected to drag out for years, with both companies looking for a court hearing to be held in 2012. The U.S. International Trade Commission -- the group with which the complaints were filed -- has agreed to look into both Nokia's and Apple's complaints against the other.
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post #2 of 26
12/16/10 at 7:19am
OMG! When will they ever stop. The two CEO,s should go to a Pub and have a healthy pint of ale and have it done with!
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post #3 of 26
12/16/10 at 7:33am
Okay I'm taking bets on when Apple will counter and add more to the 13 they filed against Nokia?

I say 30 days..

$100..

Anyone?
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post #4 of 26
12/16/10 at 7:38am
I have no idea who is in the legal right, I always assume corporations will try to get away with as much as they possibly can, but this is looking for bad for Nokia. Not that they might now win, but because they are looking more and more like Apple of the 90s “litigating when they should be innovating”. I think Nokia still has a chance to come back, but they need to reorganize, drop their hubris and do something that benefits their longterm goals.
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post #5 of 26
12/16/10 at 7:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach View Post

OMG! When will they ever stop. The two CEO,s should go to a Pub and have a healthy pint of ale and have it done with!

Or head out to Tombstone, AZ with 45s at noon.
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post #6 of 26
12/16/10 at 8:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I have no idea who is in the legal right, I always assume corporations will try to get away with as much as they possibly can, but this is looking for bad for Nokia. Not that they might now win, but because they are looking more and more like Apple of the 90s litigating when they should be innovating. I think Nokia still has a chance to come back, but they need to reorganize, drop their hubris and do something that benefits their longterm goals.

I think this battle is pointing out the massive flaws with current patent systems. Hopefully a demand for reform will come out of this.

One note, Apple's battles of the 90s resulted in a deal from Microsoft that saved them as a company so Nokia might be banking on a similar result, hoping to win enough to keep afloat & then they can revamp like Apple did. Problem is I'm not sure where they will find a CEO like Jobs who will pull them out of the ditch.
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post #7 of 26
12/16/10 at 8:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hezetation View Post

One note, Apple's battles of the 90s resulted in a deal from Microsoft that saved them as a company so Nokia might be banking on a similar result, hoping to win enough to keep afloat & then they can revamp like Apple did. Problem is I'm not sure where they will find a CEO like Jobs who will pull them out of the ditch.

I dont see how MS saved Apple. Apple saved themselves. All the deal did was ensure that Office for Mac would remain (even though in retrospect it was still highly profitable for MS so it wasnt going to go away), and it got MS out of a huge lawsuit that Apple would have likely won in spades (albeit after a long and drawn out battle), but the $250M in non-voting shares was not some magic loan to keep the lights on in Cupertino, it was a good faith investment that did help to calm some investors fears, but thats pretty much it. Apple saved themselves in very clear and well known ways, all of which had nothing to do with MS paltry investment.
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post #8 of 26
12/16/10 at 8:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hezetation View Post

One note, Apple's battles of the 90s resulted in a deal from Microsoft that saved them as a company ....

Yeah, that is a bit of a myth.
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post #9 of 26
12/16/10 at 8:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

Yeah, that is a bit of a myth.


It is a total myth. Apple would be exactly in the same position as it is now even if M$ had done nothing.
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post #10 of 26
12/16/10 at 8:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I have no idea who is in the legal right, I always assume corporations will try to get away with as much as they possibly can, but this is looking for bad for Nokia. Not that they might now win, but because they are looking more and more like Apple of the 90s litigating when they should be innovating. I think Nokia still has a chance to come back, but they need to reorganize, drop their hubris and do something that benefits their longterm goals.

It's funny this article does not mention what the new patents are, finger gestures, app store in a mobile device, ...,etc.. The patents were filled and awarded 10 years ago way before Apple even thought about iTunes or iPod or even the iPhone. I'd say things are looking really bad for Apple unless they get Nortel 3G/4G patents they'll end up paying big.
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post #11 of 26
12/16/10 at 8:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I don’t see how MS saved Apple. Apple saved themselves. All the deal did was ensure that Office for Mac would remain (even though in retrospect it was still highly profitable for MS so it wasn’t going to go away), and it got MS out of a huge lawsuit that Apple would have likely won in spades (albeit after a long and drawn out battle), but the $250M in non-voting shares was not some magic loan to keep the lights on in Cupertino, it was a good faith investment that did help to calm some investors fears, but that’s pretty much it. Apple saved themselves in very clear and well known ways, all of which had nothing to do with MS’ paltry investment.

Totally agree. This myth keeps coming up every other month on boards like this. Time it really died once and for all. Only, every time I read about it, it's always been a mere token 150M, not even a paltry 250M. And Apple had a billion in the bank at the time and no debts. They clearly needed to do something to stop running downhill, but that something was Jobs and buying Next.

But you know how it goes: somehow, Jobs distorted reality and convinced Apple they needed a marketing genius, that a salesman should run the company; somehow he contrived to insinuate his magic in place of the magnanimity of MS that turned Apple around; somehow he pulled the wool over everyone's eyes when he doesn't have an engineering or technical bone in his body; somehow he convinced Apple there was some potential to the object oriented Next operating system when it was really something he bought for 50K from some geek in his basement and renamed from something with three cryptic letters to something a little more catchy; it's all smoke and mirrors, you know, somehow...

Somehow, some of the crap made up about Apple actually has some very real parallels with real history at MS, go figure...
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post #12 of 26
12/16/10 at 9:02am
Those are stupid patents. Patented a swipe? Wow, that's even worse than pinch to zoom.

And I thought the EU didn't allow software patents, or did that directive passed?
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post #13 of 26
12/16/10 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hezetation View Post

I think this battle is pointing out the massive flaws with current patent systems. Hopefully a demand for reform will come out of this.

One note, Apple's battles of the 90s resulted in a deal from Microsoft that saved them as a company so Nokia might be banking on a similar result, hoping to win enough to keep afloat & then they can revamp like Apple did. Problem is I'm not sure where they will find a CEO like Jobs who will pull them out of the ditch.

Quick note: Nokia is in no danger of closing shop. They're not even worried about keeping "afloat," as you say. Though their market- and mindshare is undeniably down, their numbers are still pretty darn strong.

I'm really interested in what MeeGo might bring. It's complete vaporware right now (v. 1.1 is hardly anything worth talking about -- I don't equate that with what they've been hyping the OS to be), but if they can live up to all the expectations they've set forth, it could be something really spectacular.
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post #14 of 26
12/16/10 at 9:38am
I am interested in why they chose the locations where these suits were filed. Perhaps those locations are the European version of a patent friendly court system based in Texas?
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Crying? No, I am not crying. I am sweating through my eyes.
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post #15 of 26
12/16/10 at 10:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach View Post

OMG! When will they ever stop. The two CEO,s should go to a Pub and have a healthy pint of ale and have it done with!

Actually, I think this was a smart move by Nokia. Since Apple is an American company and Nokia isn't, if European courts hold to their previous MO, Apple will loose on that basis alone.

-kpluck
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post #16 of 26
12/16/10 at 10:11am
Come on, Apple beat the Beatles in England. The Beatles!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluck View Post

Actually, I think this was a smart move by Nokia. Since Apple is an American company and Nokia isn't, if European courts hold to their previous MO, Apple will loose on that basis alone.

-kpluck
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post #17 of 26
12/16/10 at 10:12am
Nokia has smart phones? Who knew?

Nokia's case is going to fall apart once the judge sees that they were trying to extort more money from Apple than other licensees and were also trying to extort Apple to hand over some of their IP.
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post #18 of 26
12/16/10 at 10:13am
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Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Come on, Apple beat the Beatles in England. The Beatles!

Struth. The Beatles are bigger than Jesus!
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post #19 of 26
12/16/10 at 11:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluck View Post

Actually, I think this was a smart move by Nokia. Since Apple is an American company and Nokia isn't, if European courts hold to their previous MO, Apple will loose on that basis alone.

-kpluck

Apple has already countersued Nokia in the UK, they launched it months ago.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #20 of 26
12/16/10 at 12:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnePotato View Post

Nokia has smart phones? Who knew?



Millions of people. All over the world.
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post #21 of 26
12/16/10 at 2:52pm
If they really have a patent on the swipe gesture then that's pritty huge. Could you imagine a smart phone that you couldn't swipe on!

Of course these things tend to be a bit more complex than that so its unlikely. Would be an amazing patent to have though.
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post #22 of 26
12/16/10 at 4:42pm
Guys. Cross-license and get on with life. Don't waste your money on lawyers.
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post #23 of 26
12/17/10 at 1:20am
Nokia needs money and needs it sooner than later, hence more courts to help Apple make its mind. Apple could withstand prolonged legal fight, but Nokia which is currently laying off hundreds of its employees probably can't afford that.
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post #24 of 26
12/17/10 at 2:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViktorCode View Post

Nokia needs money and needs it sooner than later, hence more courts to help Apple make its mind. Apple could withstand prolonged legal fight, but Nokia which is currently laying off hundreds of its employees probably can't afford that.

Just to give some perspective, Nokia has been profitable every quarter for the past 21 years. Even now, with everyone seemingly agreed that they're doomed, only Apple is more profitable in the phone industry.
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post #25 of 26
12/20/10 at 11:50am
All this does is show how f'ed up the patent system is and how counter-productive software patents are to innovation. I wish they would outlaw all software patents everywhere and be done with it.

If you want to protect your code file the whole thing as a copyright like it should be protected. I mean seriously, could anyone imagine what the technology landscape would look like today if these dumb ass laws existed six decades ago? IBM would hold the patent on addition in a solid-state computers. What a load of crap that would be, and this is no different.

Software patents do nothing to push innovation, they only hinder it.

This is about as stupid as someone trying to patent the idea of pulling a cart.
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post #26 of 26
12/22/10 at 1:00am
Even now, with everyone seemingly agreed that they're doomed, only Apple is more profitable in the phone industry
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