or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › will humans colonize other planets?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

will humans colonize other planets?

post #1 of 53
Thread Starter 
this is kind of related to the would you leave earth thread, but different enough i think.

it has always sort of been fabled that in the future humans will colonize other planets when we outgrow our own. does anyone actually see this happening? have any strides been made towards this certainly exhausting effort? overall, i think humans are just too dumb to do this...if we had a world full of einsteins & mathy-type intellectuals maybe...otherwise i think we're just stuck here until someone nukes the whole world.
post #2 of 53
I agree. We produce more entrophy than order. The rising curve of humantites destructional urges will hit "earth unliveable" before the opposite curve of humanities creative forces will hit "humanity moveable".

The last few hundred of years (or very few years or months if we deside to do ourself in faster) would be a sad but interesting requiem of desperate attempts to spread ourselfs if it wasn´t for the fact that you had to live on earth to experience it.

I think humanity grows and our potential to create a better life for everyone will rise. But unfortunetly the ultimate promise (something like a Star Trek vision) will not be met because of our other tendencies. Think of the American and French (and Russian) revolutions as the time where humanity had the most promising future and now as somewhere from the middle to the end of the golden age.

How is that for a post in my "positive story thread"

[ 07-10-2002: Message edited by: Anders ]</p>
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
post #3 of 53
In a few hundred years humanity will have no choice. It's either that or forced birth control. Perhaps we will be already born without any reproductive methods. Over population will be a real problem in the coming centuries.

Would you rather branch out into the universe or live as a eunuch?
post #4 of 53
The perfect plot for a porn movie
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
post #5 of 53
I have no doubt that humans will one day colonize other planets, if only Mars. Reaching Mars is quite doable and NASA is actively working on plans to do so. Just last week the Russian Space Agency proposed a multinational effort to do so. See <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_2101000/2101861.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_2101000/2101861.stm</a>

Finally, expanding throughout the universe is part of human destiny, IMHO. Humans are always on the move, e.g., from Africa to Europe to the New World and beyond. Mars will be next. After that we need some pretty spiffy scientific breakthroughs to get beyond the solar system in a reasonable amount of time. But they will happen.

[ 07-10-2002: Message edited by: gobble gobble ]</p>
20" iMac G5, 2 GB Ram, OS X 10.4.11, .Mac
Reply
20" iMac G5, 2 GB Ram, OS X 10.4.11, .Mac
Reply
post #6 of 53
Yes.

We can start in the very near future if we wanted to. The "want to" part is the hard part, and I'm afraid that it might get to the point of "have to" is the only way to get there.
post #7 of 53
Thread Starter 
what about colonizing our moon? that is one place we know we can go...
post #8 of 53
<strong>Originally posted by progmac:
what about colonizing our moon? that is one place we know we can go...</strong>

Yes. That's the first place we should go. 3 day transit time and high possibility of water ice in the polar regions makes it a bit easier. The logistics would be much the same as it is for the Mir or the ISS.

Mars is a great dream, but I think it's a pipe dream without going to the moon first.
post #9 of 53
I can imagine research outposts being set up on Mars and the moon--maybe mining or industrial operations, if technology makes transporting the ore/product to earth economical--but not a full scale colony, which I would think would be too expensive to maintain on either of those planets.

Colonization of other solar systems depends on our developing some kind of "faster than light" drive technologies. A "generation colony ship" using sublight engines would be a huge, global undertaking, requring massive ammounts of resources (human and material), and I would think would be something launched only as a last resort in the event of some catastrophic disaster on Earth.

'Course, anything's possible given a long enough period of time, but right now, I just don't see it.
I was promised flying cars. Where are the flying cars?
Reply
I was promised flying cars. Where are the flying cars?
Reply
post #10 of 53
Thread Starter 
say we could colonize the moon...it seems so dark and depressing there, all of the people living on the moon colony might just get depressed and kill themselves. i know this is a problem in alaska during the winter.
post #11 of 53
i think that eventually humans will spread out and live on other planets. We built boats when we needed to leave land, and bigger boats to cross oceans, and planes to span the globe, and space ships can already touch the moon -- it's inevitable that we'll build some kind of ship to transport mass amounts of people to planets/moons. we're not going to overpopulate that quickly. some people underestimate human intelligence. but, we've done a lot. i mean think about this: we eat lobsters. need i say more?
post #12 of 53
If you're talking within our Solar System, yes it's possible we may set up a colony on the moon or Mars (or maybe even one of the moons of Jupiter for example, should one of them be found to be relatively hospitable). I think within a decade or two we'll have the technology to get us to these places relatively quickly, and perhaps the will to carry out the mission as well.

If you're talking other galaxies / solar systems - no way in hell will our race get there. Maybe our evolutionary descendants, but not us. We don't have enough time, nor the cooperative ability to do this.

Based on my admittedly limited understanding of deep space travel, we have nothing more than a few flimsy theories as to how we could get a spacecraft (of any size) to travel anywhere near light speed, let alone surpass it. We simply do not understand the relevant astrophysical and cosmological problems well enough to solve them mathematically, let alone solve them in practical terms (build something large enough and strong enough to carry humans, supplies, etc. at those speeds for long periods of time).

[But let's assume] there will never be any sort of nuclear war, world plague, monster meteor or other race-snuffing event (and there will be a meteor sooner or later - we can bank on that), we'd still have a tremendous challenge and the odds would be heavily against us.

In this case, we might begin to truly solve the mysteries of black holes, worm holes, light speed travel (and others) in 50 to 100 years from now. That's from a purely abstract, mathetmatical standpoint. From there, it would probably take hundreds of years to find a way to harness the materials and resources here on earth (and perhaps on the Moon and Mars) to actually design, test and build a spacecraft that could [get] from here to the nearest galaxy in [an amount of time that wouldn't expend the useful lifetimes of the crew]. Such a mission would require tremendous leadership and drive from within; it would be critical that some of the original crew members be there to see it through. To me the idea that having kids in space and raising them to continue the flight mission, is a little out there. It totally ignores human nature. How would you feel if you were born into that and had no way out? We need to build a craft that will get us where we're going in the span of say, 5-10 years. Otherwise the human element of the mission will likely undermine it somehow.

I also think it's pretty likely such a beast would have to be built in orbit as well, because it would have to be fairly huge to support enough humans and their supplies and other needs over the course of several years. The idea of launching such a vehicle from earth is pretty much out of the question. Either from earth orbit, or orbiting one of the afore-mentioned colonies we might build. So that's another technical hurdle to overcome - building the orbiting hangar, if you will (it too would have to be massive).

Think also about our first space program and the relative simplicity of the problems that faced us then, and how many dark days there before we succeeded. Now think of the complexity of the problem of a large vehicle travelling at light speed (let alone beyond)...how many years of trials, errors and failures will that require? I doubt anyone here actually believes the first prototype will succeed or that we'll send people out the edge of the galaxy on such a prototype. If it took us 10+ years (if memory serves correctly) to get a reliable launch / orbit vehicle back in the 60's, it will likely take us 100+ to get a reliable light-travel vehicle of small stature (say the Sputnik of its day), let alone large stature (100 more at least).

Given enough time I think we could do it, but we don't have that kind of time at the rate societies are decaying IMO. Not to be fatalist but I think it's likely a partial or mass human extinction is more likely over the next 200 years than inter-gallactic travel is. Much more likely.

<img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

[ 07-10-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ]</p>
Aldo is watching....
Reply
Aldo is watching....
Reply
post #13 of 53
will humans colonize other planets?

the optimist in me says yes.

devil's advocate says...

&lt;sarcasm&gt;
just look at what a great job we've done while colonizing this one
&lt;/sarcasm&gt;

as long as we pack out our trash on the next one, promise not to give the neighbours smallpox... or start religious crusades, or seek lebensraum, or obliterate their ozone with SUVs.

our colonial record isn't stellar... ask the buffalo or 100's of other extinct species...

ask the aztecs and mayans about spanish tourism, or ask most of west africa how nice those friendly belgian slavers were when they first arrived, and how much better their lives have become vs. belgians since they met.
[[not to pick a fight with belgians, per se... just illustrating the somewhat ugly historical record...
we could substitute other examples and you could try to ask the north american equivalents, but i don't know if there are any Iroquois or Mohicans left]]

maybe we ought to specify some minimum conditions
[you must be at least this high to go on this ride]

as for sending out a colony ship of 'telephone sanitizers, used car salesmen, hairdressers, etc' maybe douglas adams had an idea there... hmmm

can we agree on at least two destinations? say one for exploitation and excess population, one for environmental and ethical stewardship...
i'm not keen to live on planet exxon or enron,
and everyone on board would have to participate... no wimping out like US on Kyoto.

explorers are by nature adventurous, but we'd want some set of "prime directives" about acceptable behaviour when survival affects more than our species. and if colonists misbehave... plank to vaccuum? you can get out here? flying leg kick?

must. resist. further. irony. find. strength. to. reply.

[ 07-10-2002: Message edited for sp and layout by: curiousuburb ]

[ 07-10-2002: Message edited by: curiousuburb ]</p>
"I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them" -Isaac Asimov
Reply
"I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them" -Isaac Asimov
Reply
post #14 of 53
Technology occurs in spurts and sputters. When a new development happens we find new ways to exploit it. Think, for example, if someone develops a way to make anti-matter easily from, oh lets say regular matter. This opens up a whole universe of possibilities, such as power plants, long lasting portable power devices, high powered ion engines, etc. 50 years ago computers were primitive adding machines. I have more processing power on my desk calculator than all the computers in 1950.
post #15 of 53
ok... above post prior to sufficient caffeine intake

for those who are truly impatient to go

watch the ride leaving this planet from the onboard rocketcam of mars odyssey and more.

9 min to escape velocity of 18500 mph
now that's acceleration.

<a href="http://space.com/missionlaunches/rockets_red_glare_020704.html" target="_blank">Rocketcam rides and launch videos</a>

(great detail of vernier motors and stage sep... not just a single flame out the back... and a few with more flames than intended)

speeding officer? how fast in a 55 zone?

oh... and for the anti-matter curious (from 2000)
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_873000/873836.stm" target="_blank">Antimatter factory starts production</a>

<a href="http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/mars/technology/propulsion/aspl/plasma.html" target="_blank">details on Vasimr plasma engine</a>

and a quick chart from nasa on propulsion. yellow boxes are active projects, not sci fi.


<a href="http://nmp.nasa.gov/ds1/tech/sep.html" target="_blank">ion propulsion from DS1 (incl video of engine test)</a>
or
<a href="http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/jpl_brophy_010808-1.html" target="_blank">soup can sized ion engines to come</a>

[ 07-10-2002: Message edited - links added - by: curiousuburb ]

[ 07-10-2002: Message edited by: curiousuburb ]</p>
"I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them" -Isaac Asimov
Reply
"I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them" -Isaac Asimov
Reply
post #16 of 53
Outsider,

What you observe about technological advancement is true in a general sense. But we're not talking about the difference between a 1950's adding machine that could've filled up my garage and a Power Mac...we're talking about the difference between counting on your fingers and toes and a Power Mac...

...or the difference between looking into the night sky with a pair of old binoculars and the Hubble Space Telescope...

We're a couple orders of magnitude away from the type of math and science we need to accomplish these kinds of goals. We have to fully understand what anti-matter is and how it works before we can actually harness it in other words (to follow your example). [So far we] have a very limited understanding of the composition of the universe, space-time travel, advanced materials, etc.

To use a common anology, its almost like "you have to be born before you can crawl...before you can walk...and then run." We're just new-borns in that sense.

Asking our existing scientists to design and build a light-speed or beyond light-speed transport [in the next 50 years say], would be like asking the Wright Brothers to build an F-18. Ain't gonna happen without the passage of A LOT of time and trial and error first. And I just don't think we have that time / cooperative ability (all of human science would have to work together on this one - that much is a foregone conclusion).

[ 07-10-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ]

[ 07-10-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ]</p>
Aldo is watching....
Reply
Aldo is watching....
Reply
post #17 of 53
For the planets' sake, let's hope not.
post #18 of 53
[quote]Originally posted by Anders:
<strong>The perfect plot for a porn movie</strong><hr></blockquote>

I AM THE Royal Pain in the Ass.
Reply
I AM THE Royal Pain in the Ass.
Reply
post #19 of 53
Also, the development of scientific theories into applicable technologies has in the past been motivated by war and/or profit. Without either impetus driving the exploration and colonization of space, I don't think any country or private enterprise will allocate the resources necessary for such an undertaking.
I was promised flying cars. Where are the flying cars?
Reply
I was promised flying cars. Where are the flying cars?
Reply
post #20 of 53
[quote]Originally posted by curiousuburb:
<strong>blah</strong><hr></blockquote>

Thanks for the links. They are an interesting read.
post #21 of 53
Will we colonize other planets ( even outside our solar system ) ?

Of course.

It's only a general lack of understanding (or willingness to understand ) how important space will be in the future. There will come a time when we will wonder how we got along without it.

About other solar systems, the thing that makes most people sceptical about extra solar exploration is the distance between the stars ( most people out there don't even grasp this ). The distance between even the near by stars is vast compared to anything experienced in human exploration. Also there is the limiting factor of the speed of light. However our understanding of this limiting factor is changing every day.

Most people that don't believe we will find a way around the speed of light still fall back on Einstein's equations that were written early in the last century. It isn't that he was wrong : any mass that accelerates to the speed of light will aquire infinite mass therefore requring infinite energy to maintain that speed or to go any faster. A mathimatical impossibility.

However our ideas about the nature of space-time have changed radically since Einstein's time. He just didn't have all the pieces to the puzzel. We still don't. Earlier this year a pair of sceintists observed a a beam of light going from point A to point B without going the physical distance between. Not only that but it reached point B before it left point A. This goes against our common sense ideas about the nature of things. Yet it happened.

I have NO doubt that we will find a way around the speed of light. It may not happen in our lifetime ( travel between the stars will depend on a lot more advances besides just getting around the limiting factor of C ) but it will happen. Who knows what we might discover in a few hundred years. The bottom line : When I was a youth most scientists said finding a way around the speed of light was impossible. Today some scientists are exploring the possiblity.

Also many great advances in science happen by accident. We stumble on something. That's what makes knowing how soon we might make these advances difficult. Someone might discover something next Wednesday that radically changes our understanding of this problem by researching something else entirely.

To put it in perspective in the early part of the last century men thought if you were able to travel more than 30 miles an hour the blood would be pushed out of your brain and you would die. A little bit later that century men thought that the speed of sound was a physical barrier that couldn't be broken. Well, ideas change. It only takes the willingness to explore.

PS. I don't think we are rushing toward destruction. If you look at history people have ALWAYS thought that. All my life I've heard this and well........IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN FOLKS! We'll be here for a lot longer so get used to it. Say that human exsistance on the earth is going to end someday all the more reason to explore these avenues so humanity can survive. The only danger is being limited to one place.



[ 07-10-2002: Message edited by: jimmac ]</p>
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #22 of 53
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by jimmac:
[QB]
However our ideas about the nature of space-time have changed radically since Einstein's time. He just didn't have all the pieces to the puzzel. We still don't. Earlier this year a pair of sceintists observed a a beam of light going from point A to point B without going the physical distance between. Not only that but it reached point B before it left point A. This goes against our common sense ideas about the nature of things. Yet it happened.

[QB]<hr></blockquote>

this sounds interesting. any linkage?
post #23 of 53
post #24 of 53
" this sounds interesting. any linkage " ?

This happened a while ago. Give me some time and I'll look around for it.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #25 of 53
[quote]Originally posted by progmac:
<strong>

this sounds interesting. any linkage?</strong><hr></blockquote>

the sciam link goes more into the entanglement concept, but prior to the quantum teleportation studies, the putative "einsteinian constant" of an always fixed light speed (relative to you but absolute to science) was called into question by the Nobel-quality work of dr. lene hau and the Rowland/Harvard team using a Bose Einstein Condensate to slow the speed of light such that you can now bike faster than light under the right conditions.

click image for link
<a href="http://www.rowland.org/atomcool/light.html" target="_blank"></a>

too cool (sorry... pun intended) not to post

[ 07-10-2002: Message edited to add link by: curiousuburb ]

[ 07-10-2002: Message edited by: curiousuburb ]</p>
"I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them" -Isaac Asimov
Reply
"I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them" -Isaac Asimov
Reply
post #26 of 53
I don't necessarily that we're rushing towards destruction so much as it is rushing towards us. Even without wars, catastrophic events that could wipe out a large part of our species (unknown disease, asteroids, etc.) are not that far-fetched. According to many Astronomers and Geologists we're actually overdue for some kind of massive asteroid impact, given how long ago the last one occured and how crowded our stellar neighborhood is with these things. "Not if but when."

And of course there are other things that could impede the progress of endeavors such as the one we are discussing here. Disease, global dought, etc. Things that just happen through the natural course of history...

...so really my point is not that we're incapable, it's that I don't think we'll the amount of uninterupted time required to achieve something like this. Who knows, maybe if we start a colony on Mars or elsewhere in this solar system, it will be their descendants -- not ours -- who produce the technologies necessary for inter-galactic travel to happen.

[ 07-10-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ]</p>
Aldo is watching....
Reply
Aldo is watching....
Reply
post #27 of 53
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Moogs:
<strong> According to many Astronomers and Geologists we're actually overdue for some kind of massive asteroid impact, given how long ago the last one occured and how crowded our stellar neighborhood is with these things. </strong><hr></blockquote>

isn't this like saying "i've flipped heads five times in a row, so a tail is due"

seems like falicious reasoning, but maybe there are factors i don't understand going into this
post #28 of 53
[quote]Originally posted by progmac:
<strong>this is kind of related to the would you leave earth thread, but different enough i think.

it has always sort of been fabled that in the future humans will colonize other planets when we outgrow our own. does anyone actually see this happening? have any strides been made towards this certainly exhausting effort? overall, i think humans are just too dumb to do this...if we had a world full of einsteins & mathy-type intellectuals maybe...otherwise i think we're just stuck here until someone nukes the whole world.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes, I think that eventually we do if we don't kill ourselves first. However, I don't want to see us moving into space before we grow up and leave our petty religious, racial, and ethnic differences behind us.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #29 of 53
[quote]Originally posted by Moogs:
<strong>I don't necessarily that we're rushing towards destruction so much as it is rushing towards us. Even without wars, catastrophic events that could wipe out a large part of our species (unknown disease, asteroids, etc.) are not that far-fetched. According to many Astronomers and Geologists we're actually overdue for some kind of massive asteroid impact, given how long ago the last one occured and how crowded our stellar neighborhood is with these things. "Not if but when."

And of course there are other things that could impede the progress of endeavors such as the one we are discussing here. Disease, global dought, etc. Things that just happen through the natural course of history...

...so really my point is not that we're incapable, it's that I don't think we'll the amount of uninterupted time required to achieve something like this. Who knows, maybe if we start a colony on Mars or elsewhere in this solar system, it will be their descendants -- not ours -- who produce the technologies necessary for inter-galactic travel to happen.

[ 07-10-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Read the book <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0812524802/qid=1026332789/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/104-8154079-0482344" target="_blank">Moving Mars</a> by Greg Bear.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #30 of 53
[quote]Originally posted by progmac:
<strong>
isn't this like saying "i've flipped heads five times in a row, so a tail is due" seems like falicious reasoning, but maybe there are factors i don't understand going into this</strong><hr></blockquote>


No, I don't believe so. I don't fully understand their statistical methods as such but I have read and heard a number of times (on shows like Nova or some Discovery Channel special) that we're long overdue for a major impact. Either way though these were well-known scientists making these statements, not Fox Mulder.



BR:
I'll look into it - meantime, any chance for an "executive summary"?

[ 07-10-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ]</p>
Aldo is watching....
Reply
Aldo is watching....
Reply
post #31 of 53
Traveling to other star systems? I'll leave the FTL travel to others, but I'm enamored with the idea of living and moving in the empty space between the stars themselves a la the Ousters in Dan Simmon's Hyperion books. Some genetic engineering, comet and asteroid clusters, artificial and self sustaining ecosystems, an entire civilization in motion... sounds cool.
post #32 of 53
[quote]BR: I'll look into it - meantime, any chance for an "executive summary"? [ 07-10-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ][/QB]<hr></blockquote>

It's the third book in this particular timeline he created, however you don't really need to read the first two before this one. They all stand alone and actually I enjoyed reading it backwards.

There is no way I can do it justice so I'll just provide this link. <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/books/0812524802/reader/1/ref=lib_dp_TFCV/104-8154079-0482344#reader-link" target="_blank">Read the first 20 some odd pages</a>. It won the nebula award in 1995.



[ 07-10-2002: Message edited by: BR ]</p>

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #33 of 53
Let's not forget the Red Mars, Green Mars, Blue Mars series by Kim Stanley Robinson. This too covers the colonization of Mars. A long three books, but it touches on all sorts of interesting topics regarding the human settlement of another planet - although I really don't agree with Robinson's answers.
20" iMac G5, 2 GB Ram, OS X 10.4.11, .Mac
Reply
20" iMac G5, 2 GB Ram, OS X 10.4.11, .Mac
Reply
post #34 of 53
So given that these book series are obviously fiction, I take it your stance is they are worth the read because they are technically / scientifically thorough in the way they describe "how we got there"?
Aldo is watching....
Reply
Aldo is watching....
Reply
post #35 of 53
Travel to other... *gulp* galaxies?
Are we sure we have our <a href="http://starfinders.cvnet.net/articles/scale.htm" target="_blank">proportions</a> down?

Speaking of the speed of light (and time travel) here's an interesting article in Nature:
<a href="http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/nature/journal/v406/n6793/abs/406277a0_fs.html" target="_blank">Superluminal Light Propagation</a>.

If I get the jist of the article, they got the beam of light to emit just *before* they pressed the buton to activate the beam.

Weeeeeeird. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
"If evolution is outlawed, only the outlaws will evolve."
-Jello Biafra
Reply
"If evolution is outlawed, only the outlaws will evolve."
-Jello Biafra
Reply
post #36 of 53
Outsider,

Here's the address to the article. It happened a little bit longer ago than I remembered <a href="http://maxmet.com/bbs/messages/46.html." target="_blank">http://maxmet.com/bbs/messages/46.html.</a>

There are many references to faster than light travel on the web. Just try doing a search from Yahoo.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #37 of 53
I just tried the link for myself and it didn't work for some reason so go to Yahoo and type in : Eureka scientists break speed of light. That worked for me. Or you can read the link from Mozillaman it sounds like the same experiment.

[ 07-10-2002: Message edited by: jimmac ]</p>
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #38 of 53
BR,

I agree Moving Mars is a great book.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #39 of 53
Moogs,

" So given that these book series are obviously fiction, I take it your stance is they are worth the read because they are technically / scientifically thorough in the way they describe "how we got there"?

Greg Bear is recognized as one of the more technically educated on the subject hard science fiction writers of our time. Please don't get me started on where most new science ideas have come from in the last 50 years.

[ 07-11-2002: Message edited by: jimmac ]</p>
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #40 of 53
[quote]Originally posted by Moogs:
<strong>So given that these book series are obviously fiction, I take it your stance is they are worth the read because they are technically / scientifically thorough in the way they describe "how we got there"?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Moogs,

I was refering primarily to the philosophical debates about colonizing another planet. For example, is it ethical to settle another planet? To alter the environment, perhaps dramatically? If all we find are bacteria, are we free to wipe them out? What form of government will a colony have? What relationship will it have to Earth? Etc.

For an interesting read about how to get to Mars, see Bob Zubrin's "The Case for Mars." It outlines in great detail how to go about this, and the heart of the plan has since been adopted by NASA as their official plan on how to get to Mars. It's not easy (nothing is in space), but it's certainly doable.
20" iMac G5, 2 GB Ram, OS X 10.4.11, .Mac
Reply
20" iMac G5, 2 GB Ram, OS X 10.4.11, .Mac
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › will humans colonize other planets?