RIM posts impressive earnings, co-CEO says PlayBook "way ahead" of iPad - Page 2

My blood is percolating! My first investment of 2011.... SHORT RIM!!!!!

What shall we call this product... Why, we'll call it Cairo/Longhorney/Vista... PlayJob!

I always thought that PJ stood for PaJamas... Now, not so sure.

This comment is in reference to the numerous but they give away the phones in BOGO promotions that is often stated on this board

This quarterly report shows that the rebates in BOGOs do not affect the actual makers of the cellphones as much as it first would seem. The cost of the promotion is absorbed by someone but it does not seem to be the phone makers. So the BOGOs are not quite the race to the bottom that many imply.

Yeah, but with the PlayJob it will be BOGTA (Bogota) -- Buy One, Get Them All!

For some reason, I'm reminded of the Palm Foleo hype.

With apologies to Utah Phillips:

"My God, that's a moose turd pie... It's good, though!"

http://new.music.yahoo.com/utah-phil...rd-pie--749694

Speaking of Palm, the assumed release of the PlayBook after February and right around the time of the assume release of the next iPad strikes me as foolish as Palm releasing their Palm Pre days before the iPhone 3GS launched. I cant help but think that a late Summer, early Autumn tablet release with an additional 6 months of making it a great product might be needed if they want this to succeed in the long term.

I bet Apple will have everything lined up so if they want to move their intended release up to usurp RiM well, we all know Jobs isnt above such things, especially after RiMs specious comments, and it would be entertaining for us.

I think this guy is used to operating in a different space to Apple, namely in-house corporate apps, and it is effecting his thinking.

Companies just want something basic that their employees can use to enter data, they don't care if it blows their socks off or not. They would rather it is written in Javascript which their developers already know. They don't care if it critically relies on the network, because they control the network (in their building at least).

But consumer apps have to stand on their own two feet. They have to compete for $. They have to look good, not just get the job done. Developers welcome new custom APIs that let them distinguish themselves from their competitors. It's better if the app is not perpetually accessing the network, because you can't control where the consumer is walking, so best to make it a normal self-contained program.

From his perspective, he probably is in a better position because he has existing relationships with corporate clients he can leverage, and his device runs Javascript faster. But take it out of that controlled corporate environment and the iPad will eat it alive. And not the iPad 2 either, the current iPad.

How can RIM say they are reinventing tablets when the system we have seen so far on their ads is a bastard child of the iOS? The only thing I see different are PC looking crappy designed icons, and that they can use Flash while surfing. Goes to show how much crap CEO's can go on about but the truth of the matter is that its going to be a big seller to people that never used an iPad before. These people will never be able to tell the difference, and how mcuh the Playbook has ripped Apple off in terms of the system and UI.

One good thing though, if PLaybook does pick up it would mean Apple will reduce their introductory prices on the iPad 2.

Yes, but the co-buffoons have been claiming that the PlayJob is "tracking" to be released first quarter.

RIMM's 4th Quarter 2011 ends Feb 27. 2011.

So their first quarter 2012 is Mar-May 2011 -- if they make it!

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I give this zero chance:

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/coll...78-609507.html

But it is more likely a success than the PlayJob.

This reminds me of the Palm Pre. Lots of hype many months in advance, only to find out that Apple is good at keeping their annual release schedule and the Pre was no longer interesting by the time it shipped.

The iPad 2 will put an end to RIMs boasting before Playbook sales even begin. Although I think this would make a good tablet for those owning Blackberry phones, given all the integration it will have.

...do your numerous friends know that you own them?

So having read the previous interview with Lazaridis and now being confronted with the oddly unfocused musings of Balsillie, I have to wonder how RIM ever managed to build a successful business in the first place. They speak like they're brain damaged. I mean it, not evasive or corporate speak or blustery or disingenuous or any of that, but cognitively impaired. Where you stare a sentence and try to imagine the cloudy, cross-wired processes that led to that series of words.

Maybe they have handlers that make the real decisions and they mostly keep these guys sedated in a back room? It's just horrifying.

The Playbook is going to be boosting Adobe with the 'open' Adobe Air SDK, which is interesting because those are apps, which sort of contradicts their app vs web stance.

The reality is that Apple went web-only from day 1 and nobody wanted web-only. Apple has the same webkit Blackberry uses (because Apple offered it as an open product) plus a powerful App SDK that not only does apps like NFS Undercover, which you can't publish on the web but it can control external hardware, which I doubt the Air SDK will allow.

This is just another marketing ploy to defibrillate a dying brand by pointing at successful companies and claiming superiority when they are just another imitator.

The one thing the Playbook has is a dual-core CPU, which makes HTML5 run faster but it's the same attempt made by PC rivals to outspec rather than deliver a better experience. Apple's focus on iPad 1 was build quality, battery life and most of all the screen. We don't know what screen is in the Playbook but I would guess it's not IPS and it didn't look like AMOLED. What we do know is that it's 7", which is half the size of the iPad so that's going to kill the experience somewhat.

Lastly, they are playing catch-up to iPad 1, just before iPad 2 arrives and they are only managing to match the price. If they undercut it, they do so by compromising quality.

Summing up his response, Balsillie reiterated that he thinks RIM is "just well ahead on the PlayBook, well ahead internationally, and extending very very well."

So the Playbook is well ahead of the iPad? Great! Where can I buy one?

Seriously, Apple could do with releasing 4.3 around late January with some performance improvements to mobile Safari. I do find it a little sluggish, especially caching. But a tweaked Safari on iPad 1 would be well ahead of the Playbook.

Flash on tablet advocates should remember the importance enterprise places on battery life.

I have been avidly following appleinsider for several years now on a daily basis and the absurdity of this guy has forced me to write my first post.

For a company such as RIM who's supposed core competency is smartphones to have not brought to market a compelling response to the iPhone, which is now in the middle of its its fourth generation (and now Android) just highlights innovative inaptitude. The very notion that this guy even thinks they can bring out a tablet which does not in anyway form part of RIM's core competency, to rival and exceed the iPad even in it's 1st gen form is borderline insane.

We have heard all this before with the Storm and the Storm 2...this is just posturing nothing more nothing less. It's amazing a company the size of RIM needs two CEO's - all it says to me is each of them is only capable of doing a half ass job.......

PS How many of those 14.2 shipments were actual sales out and registrations v sales into the channel, and how many of those were part of two for one deals, and how many models does RIM sell.

Finally the big boys start to respond. Let's see how Apple holds up against business-grade competitors!

I'm loving the tool fidelity argument. The same one was brought up with the iPhone not supporting Java/J2ME - that there is this great army of developers out there, who could develop applications, if only the devices supported the language they know.

Now obviously there are great developers who know Flash - particularly the guys who have built emulators for old 8 and 16-bit computers, or photo-editing software like Picnik. But I would put good money that all great Flash developers know at least one other programming language (with C++ as a strong candidate).

Those guys will have no problem switching to iPhone or Android development, if they want to.

So the audience he's addressing here are the second-tier - the people who have learnt Flash, rather than programming.

As for the web argument - I'm waiting for a smart journalist to explain why, if it's all about web apps, one would choose a Playbook over a HP WebOS tablet or Android tablet or iPad.

The only thing I can think of is 'because it works with Blackberry's proprietary email system.

"Big boys"? Apple could buy RIM with their cash on hand.

The other thing that came across to me is that he's basically out of his depth, talking about programming and technical issues he doesn't understand (although largely to an audience of journalists who don't understand them either, so that's OK).

RIM has no ecosystem to speak of. WTF is the guy talking about?

BOGO can work wonders for a dying platform.

Increased sales of a dying, outclassed device is dangerous for the company. It gives them even greater reason to sit back and do nothing. RIM is in deeper crap than previously thought.

How can you state that any unshipped product is way ahead of anything especially when it is a glorified vehicle for adobes AIR platform. What a twat.

Normally, I would be inclined to give RIM the benefit of the doubt.... however it does seem a tad convenient that they post 14.2 million sales... compared to iPhones's recent 14.1.

After the recent cat fighting between the two (three!) CEOs, RIM would have every reason to bump a couple of hundred thousand Blackberrys into the channel. Let's see what their next quarters figures are.

On it's own, yes. But it's only a 35% increase YoY.

Rim's previous 3 quarters were all over 40% ... and the smartphone market, as a whole is growing at around 70%.

Rim just lost another chunk of market share.

You don't go and buy a Unix real time OS company like QNX and a user interface design company unless you have decided you don't have the internal talent to compete and you need fresh new folks and already built technology. RIM just did what Apple did when they bought NeXT. They admit they have no good OS and they are buying a company to get one. However, NeXT's claim to fame was their development environment. We are talking the most advanced devkit ever devised in computing history. Literally, decades ahead of it's time when it was originally released with NeXTStep. This is one reason by Apple's App Store is kicking so much butt. The development environment on the Mac is extremely good and it just keeps getting better. The dev environment on BlackBerry has been Java based which is, uh, Bleh...

RIM's hardware is under powered and their OS is slow, only the latest Torch have I noticed it running a little better. Their OS is Java based and it takes forever to reboot a BlackBerry and you end up having to do that quite a bit until there are enough OS updates to fix the bugs. Plus you have to wait for the slow carrier to even release the updates, unlike Apple who put's out an update and everyone can load it regardless of carrier. Many times, I have witnessed people pirating the OS for their BlackBerry because AT&T, Verizon, etc. won't release the update. The carrier wants you to buy a new phone. So you get to hear about it being released overseas but you will never see that version on your device! This is what the CEO meant about being carrier friendly....

The apps available for BlackBerry are terrible and they are expensive too. Everything feels like a hack on the BlackBerry. The Torch made some serious strides but the touch screen is so bad, I have to flip the keyboard out just to type on it. I am on my forth iPhone and iPad and I don't have any trouble typing on them. Why can't RIM make a touch screen sensitive enough to actually be useful? Android based touch is better than RIM but still not quite as good as Apple's.

The PlayBook is running QNX which is a commercial real time Unix suitable for running nuclear power plants, etc. It is fantastic tech! However, iOS is also Unix based. When iPhoneOS shipped on the first iPhone there was no development kit. Developers were told to do things web based. This didn't fly, developers wanted a full blown development environment and API. As soon as Apple released that devkit and the App Store, development exploded! What is RIM's development plan on the PlayBook? Why, Adobe AIR! Gee that sounds familiar! Air is nothing but HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and Flash all thrown together. RIM is likely working on a C/C++ based devkit on QNX but they are years away from a decent API. Sure you've got the Unix development env on QNX already but it's not good enough and they need to add a whole new GUI layer with new widgets, etc. to give developers something like the iPhone dev env. Not like they are going to run X11 as a Window manager on the PlayBook. So they whipped up a quick and dirty interface that can multi-task and run AIR apps. Nothing but a fancy browser with sliding screens instead of browser tabs.

So yeah, no CEO is going to walk out and say, "We're 5 years away from being competitive". Nope, they are going out there and they are going to try to do the best they can....

It's all smoke and mirrors until they pull off the impossible, stay alive long enough to get the QNX dev kit up-to-speed. Get multi-core CPU's into your BlackBerry's. Write a whole new playbook on your user interface. Try to do all this before Apple simply pulls out advanced tech they have been sitting on and keeping secret. I bet Apple's two or three generations ahead of what's actually shipping today. I think there is an iPhone 5 and maybe 6 or seven in development as well as an iPad 2 or 3. I would not be surprised if there was a Dual Core custom A9 MIPS processor with advanced GPU being tested out with iOS. RIM doesn't have a chance in hell... They fell asleep at the switch and didn't wake until the 4th generation iPhone and iPad hit the street.

Are you quite sure about that?

From the reports:

Unit sales 2010 v 2009:

14.1 - 10.1

Net income:

$ 911.1M - $ 796.7M

So, not totally scientific, but a 40% increase in sales has yielded only 14% increase in profit.

What a delusional whack job

I agree, the timing really stupid. But I don't think Apple will need to change plans. That kind of launch timing will kill the product, anyway. If this thing is launched a month before iPad 2, only fools, the GROSSLY uninformed, and those pre-disposed to avoid Apple products will purchase it before waiting to see what the iPad 2 will deliver. RIM really better hope this thing is hugely popular with the business customers who haven't explored other smart phone solutions.

..........don't forget Alan Sugars' assertion in 2005, "this time next year the iPod will be finished/dead/nowhere/kaput"

Maybe they are waiting until the iPad 2 comes out, so they can up-date it, change it, fix it, so it WILL be better then the iPad2, when they release it for sale, which by the way, won't be until the iPad3 hits the streets, so they can see what they'll need to change to make it, faster, smaller or bigger, thinner, lighter, better battery life so on then the iPad 3, but wait it won't be released then either, rumor has it that Apple is coming out with the All New & Improved iPad4!

Release the damn thing, and let folks decided if it is any good. You can do just like Apple and other companies and come out with up-grades and new features in the second generation of your pad/ tablet thingie.

Skip

RIM says it will no longer report subscriber growth in future quarters.

You can tell RIM is in trouble. The numbers on the surface seem impressive. However, new subscriber growth is dramatically slowing. Further, RIM said it wouldn't report that number anymore. You don't report a number when you are nervous about it.

You know, I left the UK 21 years ago and I have never heard of Alan Sugar since, hence I didn't even know this quote. I remember him only as a discount gadget maker then early crappy micros along with Sinclair... I was a a student at Uni when I had an Amstrad amp for my flat's so called 'Hi Fi'. I Googled him after your post and discovered he went on to become a Knight and a bully on a TV show. Amazing what I missed.

I would hope that a prototype of a device to be released next year is faster than a device released 9 months ago. That's just the way processor technology works and has absolutely nothing to do with one platform being ahead of another. And you can be pretty certain that Apple will have a comparable processor in the iPad 2, but will also find a way to have longer battery life than the RIM device.

This is the second time I've heard a company excuse their inability to compete with the app store by trying to claim people don't really want an app store as if not having apps is somehow supposed to be an advantage, never mind that that iPad can also run HTML5 apps.

I also noticed in their demo from last month that on the iPad they type out ".com" instead of hitting the .com button on the keyboard.

Why can't he just be honest and say we think we can be a competitive player in the tablet-space. Anything else just sounds like a lie, and when you lie you loose my interest.

He should have said: "People who want a different approach to Apple's and don't want to be tied into Apple's world can come pick up a Playbook. We believe the iPad is too heavy for most people, the Playbook is a light alternative."

That statement would sell more Playbooks. Just don't lie. And don't name your product after a nude magazine, name it after women's things.

There was a report in a local rag in the UK around the mid 90s that one of Amstrads' PCW machines, in full working order, was left outside the journos' home in an urban area, in full unobstructed view and it was still there 48 hours later.................the article was on PC/Mac theft from the workplace.

I am in no way inferring PlayBook inferiority here!

Great insight with that investment there.

I had the same exact feeling about it! I couldn't get past all his "thinking" to see how a product, that I had never heard about till this forum, was really so much better than a freakin' Barnes and Noble Nook, which I also had never heard about until yesterday! Talk about a big ego!

They need to get it out the door now, not wait another 6 months after February.