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The L.A./Inglewood police beating story...

post #1 of 131
Thread Starter 
Really surprised it's not been brought up here (I guess with 317 religion threads, something's gonna get ignored...).



ANYWAY, so what do you guys think? Seen the video, right? Definitely a slam on the trunk. Definitely a punch in the face (ouch!).

God knows what happened before the camera caught the cops acting like idiots.

I guess the only thing I have to say about it is this: WHY does stuff like this have to get so #$%!@ complicated and big?

Here's the deal: the cop who punched and slammed: FIRED. Screw him. Should know better.

The victim: medical expenses paid by the city. If he wants, he can pursue a civil lawsuit against THE OFFICER (not the ENTIRE city, where taxpayers have to foot the bill for idiot cops).

In other words, no multi-million dollar "payoff" (think of what that does: to some people, that would be like the lottery! If you were stopped by cops and you were the type of person who normally carries around a "down with the pigs" chip on your shoulder, might you be tempted to "resist arrest" and otherwise show your ass, trying to tempt the cops into administering an ass-whipping, so your buddy - or just a regular citizen - could catch it on video and you could strike the jackpot?).

DO NOT tell me that mentality does not exist in some people, and that there are people walking around out there who would tax an ass beating if it meant a 7-figure payoff.



So anyway, what all do you guys think about this case? Anyone curious - like I am - to know what pissed this idiot cop off enough to do what he did?

Or do you think - like some seem to - that white cops are just naturally predisposed to beat on black perps?

I heard that 2 or 3 cops were treated for "minor injuries", so I wonder what happened.

Also (final question), is it more about "police brutality and abuse of power" OR is it simply about race?

I don't know, I'm asking.

In other words, would this be the big story it is if two or three black LAPD officers punched and roughed-up a white teen? Would anyone care? Would it even be a story? Would the cops be suspended? Would the activists who are coming to the aid and defense of the black teen victim suddenly turn around and come to the defense and aid of the three black cops?

That's what I ask: is it truly about police brutality or is it more about "backing your team" and supporting "one of your own"?

Again, I don't know...I'm asking.

I could see it go either way. I think some black people support other black people, no matter how awful an act they commit or wrong they are in a matter. The O.J. trial kinda confirmed that to me. I've wondered for years if whites would've rallied around Joe Namath as much as many blacks did around The Juice, if Namath was charged with the same exact crime and circumstances.

And yes, there are white people who go to bat for other lowlife whites. See it everyday, don't we? Not making this a "black thing" at all, so don't even start with me... (you know who you are).



There are activists and people of every race, gender, sexual orientation who seem to operate on the premise that, no matter what, you side with "your guy".

I find that really messed up, and I've never understood that. I wasn't wearing a "Free Dahmer" T-shirt. I'm not thinking "why don't they leave Martha Stewart alone".

When a person, who happens to be white, commits a crime or a horrible, immoral or shady act, as a fellow white person, I'm outraged, embarrassed and/or disgusted. NEVER do I, as a "white guy", feel the need to "circle the wagons" and rally around "my guy".

In other words, I'm not down at the L.A. jail with a "Free Baretta" sign. If Robert Blake did what he's accused of, I hope the dumb-ass fries for it.



I'm an open-minded, equal-opportunity basher: idiots and assholes come in all colors, genders and sexual preferences. It's their ACTIONS and WORDS that make them idiots and assholes...NOT their race, gender or sexual preference. That doesn't figure into it.

In MY opinion, that's a lot of what's wrong and messed up today. People putting TOO much stock into race, skin color, gender, sexual preference, religion, political affiliation, etc. to such a degree that it blinds other fellow like-minded types to the wrongness and evil sometimes committed by others.

See what I'm getting at? Just making sure...

[ 07-11-2002: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
post #2 of 131
Thread Starter 
I heard that the guy who shot the video is all scared and in fear for his life and is refusing to cooperate and testity before the grand jury.

He's afraid to come down to the DA's offices because he's convinced the cops are going to pull him into a room and kick his ass.

He was on a phone interview on a local radio show yesterday (KFI AM 640's "John and Ken Show") and he completely terrified.

The L.A. assistant D.A. called in on the other line and DEMANDED this guy show up - WITH the original video tape - a grand jury hearing this morning. He was issued a summons, and now it's a warrant for his pick-up.

:eek:

Getting messy...

I hope this doesn't lead to another Rodney King situation: a big violent, horrible riot, with burning, beatings, lootings, etc.

The city is just NOW seeming to get beyond what happened in 1993. Would be a shame to have another one take place.
post #3 of 131
I don't know, after watching The Shield a few times, I thought it was pretty tame...
post #4 of 131
Thread Starter 


True! Vic Mackey probably would've administered AT LEAST four more punches, and possibly shoved a sock down his throat.

This kid probably got off easy.



I'm just kidding. I am curious though: does anyone know what made this cop go off?

Oh yeah, relating to what I talk about in my first post and people "backing their side": All LAPD (okay, A LOT) are going to rally around this idiot cop, JUST because he's another cop.

The wrong, immoral act he committed doesn't register. Only that he's a "fellow cop".

See, I just don't get that. I could never be so blindly loyal to someone because of outward, physical or occupational traits. That whole things completely escapes me.

That's what I'm TALKING about: every black person in L.A. is going to rally around and support the teen victim. Every white cop is going to support the idiot cop. Everyone's going to choose up sides and it's going to get ugly.

And guess who loses, ultimately?

The friendly, law-abiding senior citizen Korean couple who own a deli/convenience store have the honor of getting their business burned to the ground and looted (and possibly personally assaulted) if this thing somehow grows and reaches Rodney King proportions. Because they came to this country for the opportunity and to make a good life for themselves, they bust their ass to open up their own little store in a once-great (but not lately so) neighborhood (because the rent and property is cheaper there) and are pursuing the "American dream" (whatever the hell that is these days...you tell me).

And because one idiot black person antagonizes one idiot white cop and one idiot white cop responds to idiot black person in an idiotic way, Mr. and Mrs. Kim get to sit on the sidewalk later this summer and watch their entire life go up in flames.



People with NOTHING to do with the situation will be the ones to suffer. Other black, other whites, other cops, other teens, other races, etc.

Anyone see any sort of pattern or sameness emerging here? Just checking...

[ 07-11-2002: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
post #5 of 131
I agree. Why can't it just be a guy losing the plot, for whatever reason, and hitting another guy?

I'm sick of this 400 years crap.

Newsflash, I wasn't born 400 years ago so it's not my fault and I'm not responsible. Truth is, there are "elements" in the black (or whatever is politically correct this week) society that love to play victim. It prevents them from ever having to get a real job and work for a living.

I know that sounds bad but it's true. Sad but true more like. I think everybody needs to be represented and when someone is discriminated against that they should get all the help possible to see justice done. But I'm sick of things being twisted around in to something it's not just because the person that does it is white.

I know it works the other way as well. I know that when a black man robs a store that there are white people shouting how typical it is and that it's always "them black folk".

I'm just sick of putting up with them. And sick of people shouting racist for every tiny little thing where a black person and a white person are involved. Truth is, all this "being kept down by the man" bullcrap is just as racist as the KKK. After all, we're not being seen as individuals who do things, we're being seen as white individuals that do things. Racist.

Fire the cop, by all means. It doesn't matter what the kid said or did. He shouldn't hit him like that. That's why he's the cop and the guy is the purpetrator.

Just let no one start bleeting about Rodney King, Malcolm X, busses, KKK and slavery again because it's total bull and it gets on my nerves.
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You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
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post #6 of 131
soz

[ 07-11-2002: Message edited by: macfenian ]</p>
You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

...
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You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

...
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post #7 of 131
Okay - so this guy was shoved onto a car. So what. I know from experience that a quick jerk on the handcuffs alone can hurt worse than that push the cop gave him.

As for being punched in the face, there had better have been some provocation on the perps part, e.g., he kicked the cop in the shin and we didn't see it because of the camera angle. Otherwise, that's excessive force in my book.

Still, this is peanuts compared to the ass-whipping Rodney King got a few years back.
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post #8 of 131
From what I understand, this isn't the first complaint of excessive force against this cop, but it is the first caught on tape. Besides, I don't believe that anything could justify this cop repeatedly slamming the kid down on the roof of his car, AFTER HE HAD ALREADY BEEN HANDCUFFED AND WAS ONLY SEMI-CONSCIOUS. Media's only been airing the same segment of the tape so we don't know what the kid might have said or did, but that goes both ways--we don't know what the cop did either.

Anyway, NOBODY is saying that all white cops are racists, but that doesn't mean that there aren't racist cops. I don't know if this cop is a racist either--maybe he's just high strung and likes to kick the crap out of people. Whatever. Still doesn't excuse what he did, whether it was racially motivated or not.

And I think that the media is focusing on this because they're waiting to see what the outcome will be. With what was caught on video, you'd think this should be case-closed, no-brainer. History has demonstrated that cases like this--even with what looks like damning evidence--tend not to be ruled in favor of the victim. I think the media's waiting to see the true racist act committed: the acquittal of the cop, and his reinstatement to duty.
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post #9 of 131
From what I have heard the teen was sitting in the passenger seat and wasn't even the reason the cops were there in the first place. However, the teen does have some mental problems. He has a slowed speach and sometimes takes a while to answer a question. He is not completely handicaped but does have some characteristics.

that is where my problem lies. This is not a racial thing it is an idiotic thing. And how you view it should reveal to you whether you are racist or not.

end of line...
post #10 of 131
macfenian, you are so clearly not from Los Angeles.

For years, the police in this town were run with an "Us against them" mentality that was only recently adressed. Police viewed all citizens of Los Angeles as the enemy; someone to be suspect. In some ways they still do.

They also tended to treat people living in "white" neighborhoods a lot better that the ones in "black" ones. You might argue that there is more crime in "black" ones, but the treatment was not the same in similar-class areas of town. A black man driving a Buick in Baldwin Hills simply was not treated the same as a white man driving the same car in Hancock Park. And if that Black man was driving through Hancock Park, he'd better have his driver's license and proof of insurance handy. I'm not talking about 1955 here either.

Our dear (former, thank god) police chief Darryl Gates was almost entirely responsible for the LA riots. When Mayor Bradley tried to fire him, the city council wimped out and let him stay. Gates then shielded the officers resposible for this beating. The trial was moved to all-white Simi Valley, where the officers were found not guilty. The rioting that followed was both stupid (why trash your own neighborhoods to protest something that happened in Simi Valley? Oh, I guess that the police were too busy making sure you never got to Bel Air), and ruinous to the neighborhoods that could least afford it.

Was it any wonder that O.J. got off? The big fear of the city was that if he was found guilty, that there would be more riots. This, and the fact that the jury was filled with predominantly older African-Americans (for whom the idea of "the man" trying to pin a murder on a brother seems less like fiction and more like something that had happened to their cousin) made sure that there would not be a conviction.

In the meantime, we have had Rampart, and now we have Inglewood. Is there any reason that black Angelenos should not be thinking "same old, same old"? I've lived here 20 years, that's what crossed my mind.
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post #11 of 131
Fenian,

I agree / disagree.

Yup, not born 400 years ago. Not responsible for the crimes of my (European) ancestors.

Stick it.

BUT:

Errr "the man" is still keeping black people down. And that's a fact. The disproportionate amount of black people in prison and on death row is not because black people are more inherently criminal or murderous, but it IS a fact ... relating to the economic circumstance of American (and European) black people.

Why is it a fact? Well, you tell me.

But I can tell you that it's not victimhood-for-gain that makes many black people pissed off, but these factual statistics and the day-to-day realities that cause these facts. They see it around them, they want to change the facts, they can't, they get pissed off, they "moan" and it's not so surprising ...

And what do they "moan" at ... well, if it looks like "the man" and acts like "the man" ... then ...
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post #12 of 131
[quote] ANYWAY, so what do you guys think? Seen the video, right? Definitely a slam on the trunk. Definitely a punch in the face (ouch!). <hr></blockquote>

I agree with your results. Fire the Cop. Pay the medical expenses for the plaintiff with a little extra but certainly not millions. And move on.

[quote] Or do you think - like some seem to - that white cops are just naturally predisposed to beat on black perps?<hr></blockquote>

Not really. I think Blacks are more likely to behave in a manner that causes these issues. Most of the people I know kiss Cop azz when they can including me. It saves you from catching a beat down...sad but true.

[quote] In other words, would this be the big story it is if two or three black LAPD officers punched and roughed-up a white teen? Would anyone care? Would it even be a story? Would the cops be suspended? Would the activists who are coming to the aid and defense of the black teen victim suddenly turn around and come to the defense and aid of the three black cops? <hr></blockquote>

No..you wouldn't have "White Activists" marching or anything but those Black Cops would be fired.

[quote] I could see it go either way. I think some black people support other black people, no matter how awful an act they commit or wrong they are in a matter. The O.J. trial kinda confirmed that to me. I've wondered for years if whites would've rallied around Joe Namath as much as many blacks did around The Juice, if Namath was charged with the same exact crime and circumstances. <hr></blockquote>

That's partially because every incident in which a Black is demonized affect Blacks worse than Whites because there are not enough positive portrayals happening whithin the community. So when some see Black being arrested for heinous crimes they tend to think that it represents a larger majority of the Black Culture.

[quote] In MY opinion, that's a lot of what's wrong and messed up today. People putting TOO much stock into race, skin color, gender, sexual preference, religion, political affiliation, etc. to such a degree that it blinds other fellow like-minded types to the wrongness and evil sometimes committed by others. <hr></blockquote>

They will respond by saying "you're a member of the most dominant majority..a Male and a White one at that" Therefore you may not know what a minority group goes through.
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post #13 of 131
[quote]I'm sick of this 400 years crap. <hr></blockquote>

LOL...stop listening to nuts like Sharpton and Jesse.

[quote] I'm just sick of putting up with them. And sick of people shouting racist for every tiny little thing where a black person and a white person are involved. Truth is, all this "being kept down by the man" bullcrap is just as racist as the KKK. After all, we're not being seen as individuals who do things, we're being seen as white individuals that do things. Racist. <hr></blockquote>

Funny thing is MOST people rebuke this crap and stick with what THEY believe to be Morally correct but the boneheads that run the newspapers and News Station just LOVE to whip up this controversy. I distincly remember alternating video shots of groups of Whites and Black shown during the verdict of OJ simpson. Blacks where shown cheering while Whites were shown in distress. This was the most blatant and divisive newcast I had ever seen in my life and it wasn't just one station that did this. Frankly I was supremely disgusted with the media and honestly really haven't watched them with any regularity since.
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post #14 of 131
The news here in CT did the same with the OJ trial. It was so obvious it made you sick.
post #15 of 131
ok, this is complicated on many levels....

1.yes, too many people view bad events as winning the lottery (stupid girl at my work thought she could actually retire because she ate once at applebys and it made her sick..she got very upset when they basically gave her nothing)....but if only the cop is fired and the boy's medical bills are paid, why would the city/county/state make any changes to the way it trains it's police force?? it is cheaper to pay a few medical bills and fire a few cops than to pay for extra training etc for it's whole force...the money payout is to show that it is cheaper for the state to train it's cops and police the police's behavior correctly than to let things slide and then blame a few "rogue" cops....
2. the only good thing about the OJ trail was it showed that this country is starting to treat black people more like white people...basically if you are a rich black man you can get away with what rich white men have done for ages...color doesn't mean as much as money does...i guess that is growth??
3. neither i nor my long dead relatives lived in this country 400 years ago (we've been here about 200 years and came over as indentured servents...kinda like temp slaving)...but this country was built in large part by slave labor and should do "something" to admit/help/repay for that...and saying that it has been so long ago and has no bearing on today is laughable....i went to Malcolm X Elementary School, i was one on only about 4 white kids that went there, i was from a broken home and was poor as poor can be...but i never had a door shut in my face, never had people cross the road so they wouldn't have to walk near me, never had car doors lock quickly because i was walking next to their car....all these things happened to my black friends everyday...i saw it happen time and time again...and their is no way that being treated like this everyday of your life doesn't affect the why you "are"....we have come a long way...we don't offen kill black men that date or marry white women anymore...there are many more people of "color" making great sucesses of themselves and their lives...but to be "white" in america is still the single greatest advantage any person can have...but i ramble....g
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post #16 of 131
Thread Starter 
Can't help what I am, hmurchison. Or how I see things.



Dreaded white male or not, the things I said still hold true and make sense. Some things are indeed pretty clear-cut and simple.

It's rampant, overzealous political correctness, historical revisionists, full-time professional shit-stirrers, apologists, guilt (white and otherwise), etc. that muddy the waters and make some things seem tougher than they really are.



At this point, I don't think I could ever be convinced otherwise. See it, in some way, shape or form, EVERY SINGLE DAY. Either in my own life/surroundings, or out in the world, via the news.

Being a white male doesn't (and shouldn't) automatically mean I don't - and can't - "get it".

Of course, I know some of you uppity, too-smart-for-your-own-good college types here will dispute that until the cows come home...

And, of course, you'd be wrong.



But believe me when I say that it isn't lost on me that the world is a tough, cruel and often unfair place. But guess what? I'm not out there helping to MAKE it that way, although my skin color and gender alone IMMEDIATELY brands me - in the eyes of some - as "part of the problem".

Trust me: I'm just as clueless, baggage-laden and ****ed-up as the next guy, white, black or otherwise.

Believe it or not, I truly do (especially in the last five or so years of my life) live by the Golden Rule, as much and often as I possibly can.

I've never wanted to make ANYONE'S life miserable or tougher than it needs to be. All I've EVER asked is the same in return from the OTHER billions of ya-hoos running around this planet.

Shouldn't be that hard...



[ 07-11-2002: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
post #17 of 131
pscates. I know you're a straight shooter but that's what you may hear from some people.

Personally I feel that we have SERIOUS issues about teaching our children Right from Wrong.

Police beating up on people is wrong.

The more "exemptions" we allow the more muddy our Justice becomes.
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post #18 of 131
Thread Starter 
Oh, I TOTALLY agree. The simple notions or "right and wrong" and "good and bad" seem to be given less face time than perhaps in the past?

I know so many parents who, for whatever reason(s), seem to have simply thrown up their hands. It's as if they seem to pack it in, thinking "ah, can't compete with the Internet, video games, pop culture, tabloid TV, pop stars, MTV, etc." and just try to get by doing the bare minimum.

THESE are the people I know with the brattiest, most disrepectful, always-in-some-sort-of-trouble kids.

The parents/families I know who "do the right thing" and go the entire way (or the "extra mile") have kids who are a pleasure to be around, talk to, see, etc.

People can't tell me there isn't a connection.



But hell, what do I know? Seems the lines are blurred to such a degree. You can't even say the Pledge of Allegience anymore without it becoming - literally - a Federal case. So what are the chances schools are going to be expected to shoulder this burden?

If the parents are falling down (as many of them are) and the schools, for whatever reason (say the ACLU or some parent getting bent out of shape that - gasp - morals and right/wrong are being taught or discussed in a classroom), then who's left?

No wonder so many kids are unbelievably ****ed-up and off course. Sometimes I consider it a small miracle there aren't MORE school shootings and nonsense!



Buy back to the Inglewood thing: yeah, that cop should be fired. He wasn't in a fight for his life, you know? I mean, if he was struggling with an uncuffed perp and fearing for his life and/or the safety of his partner and citizens, then I'd WANT the cop to whip some ass.

But when the kid is cuffed, seems about half out of it and is no threat, punching him in the face only buys you a lot of unneeded trouble.

THAT'S why the cop is an idiot. He should know better. He should have more control. And if he doesn't, then maybe he shouldn't be in that line of work?

This isn't Alabama, circa 1926. You DON'T go around using your badge as a license to "whip up on th' nigras...". That's why this cop is a flaming idiot.



Anyone THAT stupid and shortsighted, I don't WANT as a cop, you know?
post #19 of 131
This isn't "a guy hitting another guy" as one poster above put it. It's a police officer, given power by the city and state beating on a citizen without provocation. No need to hit that kid in the face, no need to slam him down on the trunk and it IS the city's responsibility and it IS the city that should be sued in addition to the cop being fired and charged with assault.

I am going to choke on my own vomit if I keep hearing this White Man's Plight garbage.

No "and move on", what the hell kind of attitude is that?

I'm not Jesse Jackson by any stretch of the imagination, but pull your heads out.
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post #20 of 131
i agree too often with groverat...which further proves that Austin ain't part of Texas ...g
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post #21 of 131
<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/07/11/police.beating/index.html" target="_blank">CNN story</a>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

Now the kid that shot the video is arrested for prior shoplifting and a drunken hit and run!

Gotta love L.A.!

Jeff
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post #22 of 131
The second case involving this cop is interesting to me.

Suspected gang activity in a park. One of the guys there is "uncooperative and beligerent" and ends up getting his ass kicked. Not charged with anything afterwards... hrm... sounds like some small-dicked white cops didn't like a black man getting smart with them.

If it looks like police brutality and walks like police brutality, it must be oppression of poor white cops. Because, after all, *they* aren't the ones with the power.
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post #23 of 131
Groverat you are a hippie liberal bastard. Remove your Free Mumia shirt, throw your hackey sack away, let go of that tree you have been hugging and go join the Marines pronto.
post #24 of 131
No way, man, you'll get my Green party membership card and my electric scooter when you pry my cold, dead fingers off them.
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post #25 of 131
I should have known a left wing wacko like you would have voted for Nader. Curse you, you Tofu munching, whale kissing, Karl Marx worshipping, first amendment believing, ungodly devil spawned VEGETARIAN!!!
post #26 of 131
Thread Starter 
WHO are you talking to, 'rat? Hopefully not me. I've made it very clear that this cop did wrong, needs to be fired ASAP and get his nuts sued off in civil court by the teen he punched.

Who are you responding to with all the "white man" stuff?

<img src="confused.gif" border="0">
post #27 of 131
I didn't address you personally for a reason, you paranoid freak.


Various posters at once. Kind of like I hacked off pieces of each person's view point and built one nice big strawman to battle.

As for my digust with the White Man's Burden being cried about like simpering babies...
"But I'm sick of things being twisted around in to something it's not just because the person that does it is white."

*sniff* *sniff* *puke*
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post #28 of 131
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>No way, man, you'll get my Green party membership card and my electric scooter when you pry my cold, dead fingers off them.</strong><hr></blockquote>

The green party and the libertarian party should merge. They could be the Greenbertarians or the Libergreens. Join forces for the greater good--we need to get rid of the Republicrats and the Demopublicans.

 

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post #29 of 131
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>I didn't address you personally for a reason, you paranoid freak.


Various posters at once. Kind of like I hacked off pieces of each person's view point and built one nice big strawman to battle.

As for my digust with the White Man's Burden being cried about like simpering babies...
"But I'm sick of things being twisted around in to something it's not just because the person that does it is white."

*sniff* *sniff* *puke*</strong><hr></blockquote>

Huh?
post #30 of 131
Well I don't know the whole story here. Maybe the kid did something to provoke the roughing, maybe not.

Sometimes a little police brutality is just good community service.

I'd like to see the whole tape and know the complete background of everyone involved (officers and the two men) before I decided.
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post #31 of 131
None of us know what happened and only saw the tape of the kid being slammed on the car and hit in the face. I wish i had the link to the news site, but the cop did put in his report he punched the kid in the face once, after being grabbed in the crotch.

Now in the tape you can't tell if this happened, but the report was filed before this became public. So in my mind at least the cop was somewhat honest in saying he hit the kid. He didn't say he slammed him on the car, but sometimes people don't realize the force they use at the time. I excuse him for that, since maybe what happened before that had the cop worked up...none of us know what happened prior to the taping.

I did see a cut on the cops head, it's totally visible in the tape. Now if he was struck by the kid, than to me the rest is what was deserved.

To me after having a cop killed here in Seattle after a struggle and shot with his own gun, what is too much force? This particular cop tried pepper spray and it only made the criminal more mad. The guy who shot him with his own gun was a minority. Now if he had shot this criminal instead, is he using too much force? Is it a race thing?

White, Black, Asian, Mexican, does it matter? If I'm a police officer and any one of these type of people try to fight or struggle with me, instead of doing what I ask. I'm hitting them with my club, no questions asked, if i feel I'm in danger. Not one of us wears this cops shoes, and in a society that cries wolf and has little respect for authority. I don't blame him for his actions, until I know the facts....not some wolf crying!!!!
I see being an "AAAAA" Hole is some peoples life long dream...nice to see they can succeed!!!
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I see being an "AAAAA" Hole is some peoples life long dream...nice to see they can succeed!!!
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post #32 of 131
[quote]Originally posted by BR:
<strong>The green party and the libertarian party should merge. They could be the Greenbertarians or the Libergreens. </strong><hr></blockquote> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
Yeah, then they could get .3% of the vote instead of the .1% and .2% that they get now.
post #33 of 131
[quote]Originally posted by ColanderOfDeath:
<strong>I should have known a left wing wacko like you would have voted for Nader. Curse you, you Tofu munching, whale kissing, Karl Marx worshipping, first amendment believing, ungodly devil spawned VEGETARIAN!!!</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hey, I'm not left-wing and am a Nader man. Although i do disagree with just about everything groverat has to say about anything, don't blame it on Nader.
post #34 of 131
[quote]To me after having a cop killed here in Seattle after a struggle and shot with his own gun, what is too much force? This particular cop tried pepper spray and it only made the criminal more mad. The guy who shot him with his own gun was a minority. Now if he had shot this criminal instead, is he using too much force? Is it a race thing?<hr></blockquote>

You cannot compare the two situations. Here we had a single cop taking on a guy who is buck naked, high on crack, and obviously out of his mind running through the streets saying that he is God. Obviously he posed a danger at that point. You can argue about how much force is appropriate, and whether the situation should have been handled differently and the social reasons why it might not have been. But that doesn't have any bearing on the LA case.

In the LA situation you have 5 cops, the guy is a skinny little teenager and he is already handcuffed. Once he is handcuffed the threat is basically over. There was no justification for the force at that point.

[quote]Hey, I'm not left-wing and am a Nader man. Although i do disagree with just about everything groverat has to say about anything, don't blame it on Nader. <hr></blockquote>

It is odd that you two both like(d) Nader though you claim a much different ideology than groverat. I wonder, are there aspects of Nader's politics that you both found you could support?

I don't normally pay much attention to what groverat has to say anyway these days. Ever since he abandoned his white trash upbringing to worship the devil at the University of the Beast his soul has been lost to our Lord as far as I am concerned. Plus he doesn't provide me with gay manlove anymore, now that his bleeding heart is enraptured with Shanny.
post #35 of 131
I can compare...but thanks for saying I can't

Age has little to do with what force can be used. How many officers has little to do with it either. Tell that to the 3 cops shot like 2 days later at that meth house down south. You're from Seattle by your name so you should know what I'm saying. The guy rolls up on his bike and starts shooting at 3 cops making the bust, they killed the guy, was that too much force.

My point is only this....they have a crappy, under-paid job, that has huge risks. Kids these days have little respect for the police, so to some extent they are just as dangerous or more dangerous than an adult.

I don't want their job, and feel that in most cases cops are good people. I'm not saying these cops are, but until the full story comes out, it's just a bunch of race card bs to me....GG GF
I see being an "AAAAA" Hole is some peoples life long dream...nice to see they can succeed!!!
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I see being an "AAAAA" Hole is some peoples life long dream...nice to see they can succeed!!!
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post #36 of 131
[quote]None of us know what happened and only saw the tape of the kid being slammed on the car and hit in the face.<hr></blockquote>

Here's what we saw. We saw the kid get slammed onto the trunk while in handcuffs. And while he was in handcuffs we see the cop punch him in the face.

I don't care if this kid was screaming that he was going to rape and kill the cop's mother, there's no reason for hitting a kid in the face in that position.

If he attacked the officer in some way to make the punch self-defense then why hasn't he been charged for it?

[quote]I wish i had the link to the news site, but the cop did put in his report he punched the kid in the face once, after being grabbed in the crotch.<hr></blockquote>

Well he was on tape, so I don't see how he could leave it out.

[quote]I excuse him for that, since maybe what happened before that had the cop worked up...none of us know what happened prior to the taping.<hr></blockquote>

That is... insane.

This is absolutely ridiculous.

Case in point, man gets beat down for non-cooperation in Oklahoma City.
<a href="http://www.msnbc.com/news/778653.asp" target="_blank"></a>

"While he was not actively aggressive with the officers, he was actively noncomplying."

So he gets his ass beat with batons and peppers sprayed after he's on the ground.

We'll get an investigation, a two-week paid vacation for the cops and business as usual.

Absolutely pathetic. Yes, we certainly should just move on and act like it was a random incident.

When you're an officer of the law YOU are supposed to be in control of the situation. YOU have authority and YOU have power, if you abuse that power you should AT THE VERY LEAST be fired immediately. I don't care what the hell happened, but that kid was handcuffed on the trunk when the cop punched him and just as we don't know from what little video we have that the kid hadn't attacked them we don't know if he hadn't been beaten more before slammed against the trunk and jacked in the face.

You assume he attacked them in some way... ask yourself why.

[quote]Now if he was struck by the kid, than to me the rest is what was deserved.<hr></blockquote>

Last I checked... in our system, the cops weren't the ones who doled out punishment. I don't know where you live, but in my country that's not how it works.

[quote]Now if he had shot this criminal instead, is he using too much force? Is it a race thing?<hr></blockquote>

What was the situation?
If someone goes for your gun then shoot them. If you get them under control and on the ground and/or handcuffed, you don't hit them.

[quote]White, Black, Asian, Mexican, does it matter?<hr></blockquote>

Depends on which party in the incident you're asking.

[quote]Not one of us wears this cops shoes, and in a society that cries wolf and has little respect for authority. I don't blame him for his actions, until I know the facts....not some wolf crying!!!!<hr></blockquote>

There is more than enough precedent for white cops beating the shit out of blacks without provocation to make this look fishy. Rodney King's attackers were acquitted for God's sake.

CoD:

You aren't half the manly love machine that Shanny is.
(Are our reservations confirmed for our trip to do Springer in Chicago?)
proud resident of a failed state
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proud resident of a failed state
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post #37 of 131
[quote] White, Black, Asian, Mexican, does it matter? If I'm a police officer and any one of these type of people try to fight or struggle with me, instead of doing what I ask. I'm hitting them with my club, no questions asked, if i feel I'm in danger. Not one of us wears this cops shoes, and in a society that cries wolf and has little respect for authority. I don't blame him for his actions, until I know the facts....not some wolf crying!!!! <hr></blockquote>

but we have to be careful of what we so easily excuse...police officers have an extremely hard job and put their lives on the line everyday...but what do we do when 4 police officers shoot a man 41 times when he reaches for his wallet to show them his ID?? do we allow "shoot first, ask questions later" or self-defense even when there is just the preception of danger/fear? if the guy shot is a bad guy with a guy then it is ok, but if it is an innocent guy with no gun do we charge the police with murder?? somebody earlier said that if the police start talking to him he is kissing azz immediately...and i fully agree with that...cop stops me and i am the meekest, most lip puckiering guy around, and i believe that police do need some leway because their job is so dangerous....but i can't stop thinking that it could be my kid in a doorway being shot 41 times...that my kid may never get the chance to act meek and pucker those lips when i police officer gets too jumpy...and then saying that they thought they were at risk and acted in self defense....anyway, it's tough...we want the bad guys off the streets but don't want any innocents hurt...guess i just want "anybody" that fires a gun to be damn sure of what he's shooting at and why...and if you already have somebody cuffed and you want to throw them face first into a car and then punch them a time or two, try not to make it a developmentally slow 16 year old and try not to be video taped....g
it's all fun till somebody loses an eye
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it's all fun till somebody loses an eye
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post #38 of 131
Your right...if someone resists they should buy them lunch and cookies until they feel like being arrested.

I think we should just let people totally disrespect authority and just let hell break loose.

As for past cases....we could probably find just as many or more white cops beating white people. Your point is what?

Put a uniform on and then preach to me about what's wrong and right. I respect what they do, and know that at times too much force is used. It's not easy to do their job, but it's sure easy to judge it.
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post #39 of 131
[quote]Age has little to do with what force can be used. <hr></blockquote>

It's not the age directly that is relevant as the accompanying physical characteristics. This was a skinny little 16 year old not a broad shouldered adult. Different circumstances dictate different responses. This particular factor isn't a big part of the equation, but it is part of the equation.

[quote]How many officers has little to do with it either. <hr></blockquote>

It has a ton to do with it. With multiple officers it becomes much easier to simply wrestle a suspect down and overwhelm him and handcuff him. Additionally you can have an officer with his weapon drawn. Obviously this is not possible in the same way with just one officer. This happens all the time. It's one of the reasons why that officer was hoping for quick backup which he did not get.

[quote]Tell that to the 3 cops shot like 2 days later at that meth house down south. You're from Seattle by your name so you should know what I'm saying. The guy rolls up on his bike and starts shooting at 3 cops making the bust, they killed the guy, was that too much force.<hr></blockquote>

Again that is a totally different situation. That guy had a gun. The naked guy who killed the cop and the kid in LA did not have guns. The situations are totally different and officers treat them differently. You act as if police officers should treat all situations the same. That's not possible, they have to use judgement and that is part of what makes it a very difficult job.

Furthermore no one has suggested that the use of force in killing the motorcycle guy was unreasonable force. It was the obvious thing to do. Have you seen anyone protesting that incident? I doubt it. When you are shooting at police officers you are making yourself subject to deadly force and virtually any reasonable person will agree with that.

[quote]My point is only this....they have a crappy, under-paid job, that has huge risks. Kids these days have little respect for the police, so to some extent they are just as dangerous or more dangerous than an adult.<hr></blockquote>

In attitude perhaps. Not in physical stature. But that misses the main point. He was in handcuffs. Once he is handcuffs he no longer poses a danger. Thus, you don't hit him. Have you even seen the video?

[quote]I don't want their job, and feel that in most cases cops are good people. I'm not saying these cops are, but until the full story comes out, it's just a bunch of race card bs to me....GG GF<hr></blockquote>

Most cops are good people. And there are a few bad ones. It happens in every profession. In the particular case of cops, their mistakes are more likely to have physical or life and death consequences. As such their behavior must be subject to scrutiny. Cops certainly get the benefit of the doubt in most cases. And often they deserve it.

What more story do you need? What possible justification could there be for hitting a handcuffed person who is no longer a physical threat? There is no threat to the officers' safety. They have no right to dole out punishment, contrary to what you say. Your choice to pass this off as "race card bs" shows an inability to recognize what is appropriate and what is inappropriate conduct for a police officer or anyone else for that matter.

[quote]You aren't half the manly love machine that Shanny is. (Are our reservations confirmed for our trip to do Springer in Chicago?)<hr></blockquote>

No I'm not half. I'm at least 17% more of a love machine than Shanny. Btw, did you know that you are secretly the love child of Al Franken and Dianne Fienstein?
post #40 of 131
Thread Starter 
I just heard today for the first time that the cop doing the punching said that the kid grabbed and twisted his (the cop's) family jewels.

Now, proper police training and professional ethics aside...

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

To paraphrase Chris Rock: "I'm not saying I AGREE. But I can UNDERSTAND!"



But seriously, looks to be a pretty bad situation all the way around. A nice little distraction from the latest War on Terror developments and the Worldcom/Enron mess.

I did see Maxine Waters on a show tonight saying "shades of Rodney King...". I don't know. Quite a leap from a single trunk slam and a half-ass face punch to the wholesale, balls-out ass whipping Mr. King suffered.

Today on the John and Ken show in L.A., they were doing a live remote somewhere and asked the crowd (seemed to be at least 100 people, judging by the sound of it) what they thought of all this.

They asked "is this being made too big a deal of?" and about half the crowd applauded. Then asked "is this truly the most horrible thing that's happened in a long while?", and again about half the crowd (the OTHER half, I suppose) applauded.

Not scientific, of course, but seems that, give or take, the situation has divided people at about the halfway point?

I don't envy cops. I couldn't hold my temper, especially after someone has just attacked, assaulted or otherwise tried to injure/murder me. I'd make a HORRIBLE cop and would probably last about 3 days on the job before I shot someone or beat them senseless with everything at my disposal.

But see, I RECOGNIZE and accept this, therefore I won't be attending the police academy because I'm aware of my flaws and limitations.

If only EVERYONE could do that and make their career decisions accordingly.

Again, though, I have to say this: it's a horrible, illegal and morally wrong thing to do. The cop should be fired. There shouldn't even be a big build-up or back and forth. Just fire him. ESPECIALLY if he's got a history of this crap.

However, that being said, I DON'T think this is the worst sin or crime ever committed on another human being. And there seems to be a segment of the population who is intent on behaving as if it is.

Fire the cop, pay the kid's doctor bills and maybe a little "we're terribly sorry" money. Then shut the hell up.

Tighten up recruitment and training standards. When this happens AGAIN, IMMEDIATELY fire the cop. Send the signal that this will not be tolerated and you'll lose your job.

And again: if everything was reversed, WE WOULD NOT EVEN BE TALKING ABOUT IT.

The story would've appeared on MSNBC on Saturday night, maybe got a brief mention on the Sunday shows, then that's it.

It has "legs" because it's a white cop beating a black youth. Flip the colors around and this is the biggest yawn, non-story in the history of news.



That isn't "white man's burden", either. That's just how it is. Not saying it's good or bad, right or wrong. It's just how things are reported, played up, payed attention to, etc.

And if you don't see that or agree with that, you're delusional.

If two or three black cops are ever caught on video punching a white teenage skateboarder and the story/interest/drama lasts more than a day and a half, or results in any sort of prolonged, heated debate, "Special Reports", soul-searching, civil unrest, etc. I'll eat my own arm.



I mean, go flip on the news right now. If you didn't know anything about this story, you'd assume from the intense coverage and yelling and all that 42 white cops put on white sheets and rolled into Compton and shot every black person who stuck their head out the door.



EVERYONE, on BOTH sides, needs to take a chill pill or two, and wash it down with their favorite adult beverage before this just gets completely out of control and ugly.

Fire the cop, pay the kid (hell, name a street after him if it'll help ease the pain and anger) and then shut the **** up.

The cop can go work in a video arcade for $6.24/hour and reflect on what a dumb-ass he is and how he blew it...
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