or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › The L.A./Inglewood police beating story...
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The L.A./Inglewood police beating story... - Page 2

post #41 of 131
So what size skirt and color did you say you wanted?

No honestly I hear your side loud and clear....we just disagree in the gray areas. In the end, the cop is wrong for hitting the kid after he was handcuffed.. That's the easy part of this story.
I see being an "AAAAA" Hole is some peoples life long dream...nice to see they can succeed!!!
Reply
I see being an "AAAAA" Hole is some peoples life long dream...nice to see they can succeed!!!
Reply
post #42 of 131
[quote] Your right...if someone resists they should buy them lunch and cookies until they feel like being arrested <hr></blockquote>

oh yeah, the guy reaching for his wallet was really resisting arrest...now he is dead....as for respecting police, i teach my children to do just that...respecting the police does not mean we have to agree with everything they do and forgive all their mistakes....g

having a bad day at work can mean very different outcomes for different people....a bad day at work for an air traffic controller can mean two planes collide at 30,000 feet...a bad day at work at McDonalds means that the deep fryer spit grease up your arm...a bad day at work for a cop can mean that you and your buddies shot somebodies son 41 times because he "went for" his wallet....
it's all fun till somebody loses an eye
Reply
it's all fun till somebody loses an eye
Reply
post #43 of 131
[quote]However, that being said, I DON'T think this is the worst sin or crime ever committed on another human being.<hr></blockquote>

No one's saying it's the worst sin or crime ever committed on or against another human being.

It doesn't have to be to be indicative of a very large problem.

[quote]And there seems to be a segment of the population who is intent on behaving as if it is.<hr></blockquote>

Here's the funny thing:
The segment of the population that seems so irritatingly intent on behaving as if police brutality is a big deal is the segment that gets their asses beat down by police... go figure, eh?

Why the hell would white people care? White people don't get beat down by cops like blacks do. It's a legless argument.

[quote]Then shut the hell up.<hr></blockquote>

Maybe if this kind of crap didn't happen all the time I'd agree with you, but this is a real problem.

[quote]When this happens AGAIN, IMMEDIATELY fire the cop. Send the signal that this will not be tolerated and you'll lose your job.<hr></blockquote>

Won't happen.
Cops get paid suspension then they're right back on the job. Do you really think that all the pious white Christian masses out there want those cops fired? They all think it's all self-defense.
Again, Rodney King's attackers were acquitted, if that doesn't speak volumes about the attitude of the average white person concerning these things I don't know what does.

[quote]And again: if everything was reversed, WE WOULD NOT EVEN BE TALKING ABOUT IT.<hr></blockquote>

You can't say that with any kind of authority.

Know why? Because it doesn't happen.

Think about why it doesn't happen for a minute and you'll find the underlying problem.

[quote]It has "legs" because it's a white cop beating a black youth. Flip the colors around and this is the biggest yawn, non-story in the history of news.<hr></blockquote>

Why would a group of black cops beat the hell out of a white kid?
Where could they get away with it?

[quote]And if you don't see that or agree with that, you're delusional.<hr></blockquote>

Nice... <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

[quote]If two or three black cops are ever caught on video punching a white teenage skateboarder and the story/interest/drama lasts more than a day and a half, or results in any sort of prolonged, heated debate, "Special Reports", soul-searching, civil unrest, etc. I'll eat my own arm.<hr></blockquote>

Can you find any incidents of black cops beating the hell out of white kids? And if so, with anywhere near the frequency the reverse happens?
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
post #44 of 131
Thread Starter 
I wonder if it happens? Do we not see it because a) it never happens or b) it does happen, but it's not as shocking or seen as racist and wrong.

That's all. I don't know which of those scenarios it is. Perhaps a bit of both, you know?
post #45 of 131
Thread Starter 
If, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if...

Some things are just "are". I can't imagine all the "what if" scenarios.

Actually, I can. And I think I'd be more right than wrong.

You know what, we don't see eye to eye on much, but in the ten or so years that I've been paying attention to things, being interested/curious in how people and situations work (or don't work, in some cases), etc. I have to say that I've never been THAT wrong, or THAT off base.

People really don't surprise me. I've got a pretty solid track record of assessing and even predicting some things, based on what I've seen, heard, read, discussed, observed, etc.

I don't think I'm just reaching out into mid-air and willing a bunch of silly nonsense to occur.

I find that people, for the most part, won't let you down.



That's why I say some of the things I do and see and believe things the way I do.

In 33 years, I've lived in three very distinct geographical areas (Washington, D.C., the South - Tennessee and Georgia - and, for the past 8 years, Southern California - San Diego, Orange County and L.A.

I've got/had friends AND enemies of every possible racial, sexual, gender, religious, cultural, etc. makeup you could imagine.

Why, some of my best friends are Chinese lesbian sword swal...never mind.



It'll be curious to see how this all plays out.

If people don't get a grip, relax a bit, learn to give and take, etc., then I do predict a VERY nasty episode or two.

This situation is kinda tough because EVERYTHING is riding on that video, and the "famous" part of it consists of a white cop acting like an asshole.

I'd love to see the ENTIRE incident, uncut and as it played out. Without that, it's his word vs. the victim's word.

And that's just going to be forever contradictory, I'm sure.

By the way, can you grab someone's nuts while you're handcuffed? I don't know, I'm asking. Some of you here might have some real firsthand knowledge of that procedure.

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

I mean hell, I've got the Spice Channel and all, but...
post #46 of 131
Thread Starter 
And before you ask: yes, I DO want a cookie. A big chocolate chip one.

post #47 of 131
ok, wtf is the big deal here?

i'm reading all this bull shit about "you should never hit someone" and "but white people are victims of reverse racism" and loads of other crap.

here's a though

WHO GIVES A STEAMING PILE OF POO?

the kid got thrown on the car. he got popped in the face. so what.

i've seen worse in schoolyard fights.

he got punched. one time. in the face. that's it.


now, there was that guy who got raped up the ass with a broomstick. that's overboard and should be prosecuted.

some guy gets punched one time? so what.

for pete's sake grow some balls and take it like a man. it's a little love pat, nothing to get worked up about.
post #48 of 131
[quote]Originally posted by tmp:
<strong>macfenian, you are so clearly not from Los Angeles.

In the meantime, we have had Rampart, and now we have Inglewood. Is there any reason that black Angelenos should not be thinking "same old, same old"? I've lived here 20 years, that's what crossed my mind.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ah...racism only exists in Los Angeles...

Like I said, if someone commits a racist act they should be punished for it. However, I'm sick of people going on and on about things that happened 400 years ago as if we're responsible for them and I'm sick of one racist act always being treated as if it's a crime of the entire white race against the entire black race.
You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

...
Reply
You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

...
Reply
post #49 of 131
It's a big deal because it doesn't only happen every once in a while. The kid allegedly started a tussle with a Sheriff deputy, and then the Inglewood officer came in and did the offensive stuff. In some cases the suspects desevre to get their butts handed to them, though probably not in this case.
I can change my sig again!
Reply
I can change my sig again!
Reply
post #50 of 131
[quote]Originally posted by hmurchison:
<strong>

They will respond by saying "you're a member of the most dominant majority..a Male and a White one at that" Therefore you may not know what a minority group goes through.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Majority? Not in LA. ... definitely not in Inglewood.

Dominant in terms of finance and social status, but not by numbers...
I can change my sig again!
Reply
I can change my sig again!
Reply
post #51 of 131
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>I

As for my digust with the White Man's Burden being cried about like simpering babies...
"But I'm sick of things being twisted around in to something it's not just because the person that does it is white."

*sniff* *sniff* *puke*</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ok...so let's say...Jesse J pops up on telly tomorrow morning and starts preaching about how this is a perfect example of the white people of America's lack of respect yada yada yada and racist behaviour.

You'll jump up and say mea culpa?

Even if it was a racist act, which for now hasn't been proved, it was a racist act by one or several cops. Not by all white people on the planet. Too often that is what is insinuated.

You are right to say that we should not close our eyes for reality. I'm not denying racism exists. I'm not denying that white people have commited, probably, more race related crimes than any other race.

I'm pointing out that I never have, nor do I intend to so I don't appreciate being included with people that do just because I'm white. That is, after all, a racist thing to do.

I understand that black people, hispanic people and so on that say these things are not exactly the majority. Then again, racist white people are not the majority either so why should we accept being treated that way?

I think it's total nonsense to say that just because white people have done horrible racist things, and still do, the ones that didn't can't complain when they're being done to us.
You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

...
Reply
You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

...
Reply
post #52 of 131
[quote] Here's the funny thing:
The segment of the population that seems so irritatingly intent on behaving as if police brutality is a big deal is the segment that gets their asses beat down by police... go figure, eh?

Why the hell would white people care? White people don't get beat down by cops like blacks do. It's a legless argument. <hr></blockquote>

Here's the funny thing: No one ever said that black people don't have a right to complain about police brutality.

I was saying that I don't accept being held responsible for this police brutality just because I'm white just like that cop.

No matter how you twist and turn you can't deny that it is not the fault of every white person on the planet.

If I'd really want to be petty about this whole thing I could say that if all white people are responsible for slavery, the same white people all fought for it to be abolished. But we know that's not true don't we?
You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

...
Reply
You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

...
Reply
post #53 of 131
FYI, as stated before I am Dutch but I have an Irish mother. In the six counties and in England I have also been roughed up by the RUC and English customs because I have an accent from the Republic.

Should I blame all the people of the six counties and England for that?

I thought that's what was standing in the way of peace in the first place?
You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

...
Reply
You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

...
Reply
post #54 of 131
[quote]I was saying that I don't accept being held responsible for this police brutality just because I'm white just like that cop.

No matter how you twist and turn you can't deny that it is not the fault of every white person on the planet. <hr></blockquote>

Who the hell said it was your fault? Do you have quotes or are you fighting some phantoms?

"But they WOULD say that! And look, I'm not racist, I've got black friends..." <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />


It's not a matter of you, the guy at home, being racist, that's not the issue. I don't even know how that comes up, well actually I do know why; because WASPs are whiners.

But you won't see that, of course.

No one's asking YOU to take responsibility for this, no one. No one has said that Jesse Jackson has a lot of good things to say on the subject, no one. Stop tilting at windmills.


And Paul, I'm sure you've really never been all that wrong on anything. You've got black and homosexual friends, after all, so how could you be?

It doesn't happen. Blacks aren't in power, they aren't in the position to beat the shit out of whites and get acquitted almost every goddam time. Average black man gets caught beating a white person's ass he gets prison, without a doubt. He kills a white person he's on death row. He drives around in an expensive car his ass gets pulled over so the cop can make sure the thing isn't stolen.

You can stick your head in the sand and chant "but I have black friends" all day, but that doesn't change the fact that there is systemic racism in police departments and in the criminal justice system in general.

And the very fact that you guys think I'm some kind of wild-eyed liberal college boy illustrates just how too far to the right you are.
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
post #55 of 131
Thread Starter 
Well maybe someday I'll learn how to say something write that you agree with.



Let us pray...
post #56 of 131
Some random quips:

If I was a cop and the kid in handcuffs threatened me or my family members, no I wouldn't punch him...but plenty of otherwise level-headed people would.

----

Didn't a bunch of guys that beat Reginald Denny almost to death get acquitted of attempted murder? When you crack several glass bottles over someone's head while beating him to a pulp, isn't that attempted murder? And Denny wasn't even on Dust...

----

Weird, I just noticed Masserman, Crooks's attorney was involved with one of the above in an unrelated murder investigation a couple of years ago.

[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
I can change my sig again!
Reply
I can change my sig again!
Reply
post #57 of 131
I just saw the video for the first time, and the cop's lawyer is saying that he punched the kid because the kid grabbed the cop's package behind him.
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

It's the "he grabbed my 'nads when his hands were handcuffed behind him but you couldn't see it because the video camera was at the wrong angle so I punched him" defense.
post #58 of 131
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>

Who the hell said it was your fault? Do you have quotes or are you fighting some phantoms?

"But they WOULD say that! And look, I'm not racist, I've got black friends..." <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />


</strong><hr></blockquote>

I wasn't speaking about just this. Fact is that it has happened and it does happen that wrongs done by others have been projected on the entire white race. Just like I pointed out that it's the same as someone saying how typical it is when a black person robs a store. One guy does it and it is projected on the entire race. It's wrong then and it's wrong when it's done to the white race in stead.

I guess you missed that during your bout of selective replying.

As a matter of fact, I don't have any black friends. Now I'll just let you speculate as to why that is.
You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

...
Reply
You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

...
Reply
post #59 of 131
[quote] ome random quips:
If I was a cop and the kid in handcuffs threatened me or my family members, no I wouldn't punch him...but plenty of otherwise level-headed people would.
<hr></blockquote>

Don't know if I'd consider them "level headed" Cops that act like Criminals worry me.

[quote] Didn't a bunch of guys that beat Reginald Denny almost to death get acquitted of attempted murder? When you crack several glass bottles over someone's head while beating him to a pulp, isn't that attempted murder? And Denny wasn't even on Dust... <hr></blockquote>

No. He should have ran their Black Asses over. One nicknamed "Football" was convicted and another one was as well.

We need to hold our Officers up to a higher standard. Ther
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
post #60 of 131
[quote]Originally posted by macfenian:
<strong>I'm sick of one racist act always being treated as if it's a crime of the entire white race against the entire black race.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I guess I haven't been watching enough news here, I was under the impression that it was about a cop belting an developmentally disabled, handcuffed teenager. Even if Al Sharpton decides to drop in and stir things up because Angelenos aren't dropping enough rhetoric for his taste.

And no, I don't feel any responsibility for what happened 400 years ago, even though my family was in New England at that time. But hey, if we were part of the underground railroad, do I get reparations?
"..do you remember where you parked the car?"
Reply
"..do you remember where you parked the car?"
Reply
post #61 of 131
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Eugene:
<strong>Didn't a bunch of guys that beat Reginald Denny almost to death get acquitted of attempted murder? When you crack several glass bottles over someone's head while beating him to a pulp, isn't that attempted murder? And Denny wasn't even on Dust...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Which brings up this cute little question: if Denny, sensing the danger he was in and genuinely fearing for his life/safety, had gunned the engine on his truck in an effort to get out of the area and hit or ran over the SAME GUYS who ended up bouncing bricks off his head at point-blank range, would Denny have been charged with a hate crime?

<img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />

Would an innocent man's attempts at fleeing a frightening and dangerous scenario and causing incidental injury/damage be seen by some as somehow WORSE than a gang of brutal, violent thugs assaulting people for no reason other than they were in the "wrong place at the wrong time"?



Poor Mr. Denny seemed faced with only two options that awful day: try and get himself out of there and possibly running over someone in the process, OR stopping, getting pulled out and having a royal ass-whipping of the highest order thrown on him.

He was ****ed either way, wasn't he?

And that one son of a bitch, DANCING and celebrating after beaning Denny with the big chunk of concrete or brick. To this day, the footage of that scene makes my blood crackle.



Asshole...no ifs, ands or buts about it.

If Denny had stopped his truck, got out with a shotgun and was "lookin' to shoot some niggers...", THEN maybe I'd cut the brick-thrower some slack (self defense and all).

But that wasn't the case, was it?

Idiot.

And you know goddamn well Denny would've been in TONS of trouble had he made a different decision and revved his engine and ran over (or in any way caused injury to) one of the thugs.

In the media (and in history), his name would rank up there among the likes of David Duke, Mark Fuhrman and others as an example of "white cruelty and racism".



"Those young men presented no danger to Mr. Denny. They weren't looking to hurt him. But he, out of hatred and anger, foolish chose to run down these young men. We won't tolerate that kind of behavior and Mr. Denny is going to pay for his cowardly, racist behavior!"

- [an imaginary quote by some idiot high-ranking L.A. politician - white, black or otherwise - HAD the situation gone the other way]

[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
post #62 of 131
Thread Starter 
Reginald Denny is a better man than I'll ever be...I remember that he forgave and harbored no ill will toward the thugs who hurt him.

Admirable, I guess. But perhaps that brick to the head juggled his brain a bit?

There's a very good chance I would've strangled the guy who beaned me with a brick on the courthouse steps on live TV, for all the world to see.



But I'm a little less patient and forgiving about some things...
post #63 of 131
I used to give a shit about 'racism.' I had been raised to view racism as something white people did. Then I moved to Richmond, VA w/a black chick and learned that it is indeed a 2-way street.

Me and the girl split up after a couple years, but I stayed in Richmond and spent my time working in a detail shop and 'hanging' on the street. This is where I learned to see reality...respect makes people co-exist, not love.

I don't care if a black guy likes me or not, thats a personal issue. But, he better goddamn respect me. Never ask for respect, demand it, 'By any means necessary.'

Now I work in an office where people are afraid to even talk about race. I'm surrounded by white people who say 'I have black friends,' and blacks who think every move is part of a master scheme to take them down. (the 1st 2 rounds of lay-offs were all-white. In the 3rd round, a black woman from my dept was cut...she went straight to HR and threatened an EOE law suite. In order to avoid drama, they gave her an extra 2wks pay. Afterwards, I heard her bragging to her friend down the hall. F' the bich, she was totally incompetent, but had job security because of her skin.)

Most of my friends are 'other' races (asian, indian, spanish). They really don't care about the complaints of blacks. Most of them were not born in the US, but have managed to work their way into money. Hmmm, makes you think.
post #64 of 131
I just realized that I didn't comment on the beating...

Fire the cop and pursue battery charges against him. The family can handle their grievances in civil court.

[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: Keda ]</p>
post #65 of 131
[quote]Which brings up this cute little question: if Denny, sensing the danger he was in and genuinely fearing for his life/safety, had gunned the engine on his truck in an effort to get out of the area and hit or ran over the SAME GUYS who ended up bouncing bricks off his head at point-blank range, would Denny have been charged with a hate crime?<hr></blockquote>

I love how you ask ridiculous questions like that and then run with your answer as if there's any basis in reality.

And if you honestly think that Denny would've been charged with a "hate crime" you're insane.

At the end of ranting and railing against the phantom situations you kind of lose focus and go off in a different direction. Silly man.

But I still love you!

[quote]And you know goddamn well Denny would've been in TONS of trouble had he made a different decision and revved his engine and ran over (or in any way caused injury to) one of the thugs.<hr></blockquote>

Do you really believe that?

A rolling pscates gathers no moss.

Put down the mouse, pick up the joint and inhale deeply. Calmness, brother, calmness.

Look at my signature and be comforted.
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
post #66 of 131
Thread Starter 
RIDICULOUS questions!?!? WHAT?!?!?!

If I was in that exact scenario, I'd be terrified. If I gunned my truck and tried to make a break for it (to save my ass), I'd be scared that I might accidentally hit someone (especially if someone ran out in front of me to intimidate me or whatever).

If I knew that if I STAYED there, I may suffer a pretty severe ass-beating (or worse!) at the hands of people who've spent the entire day breaking windows, assaulting motorists, looting stores, destroying property.

What isn't clear about that scenario exactly? What is so "far fetched" and ridiculous?

Do you not think Denny was a TAD bit nervous and maybe a bit scared and worried? Not knowing quite what to do because it was such a freaky and surreal scene in South Central that particular day?

I know I would.

I would become aware VERY QUICKLY that my silly white ass is probably Target Numero Uno, given the neighborhood, the reason for all the unrest, etc.

WHAT is so "far out" and nonsensical about that?

What would you do? Climb out of the truck and quote case history or Constitutional articles to everyone? Offer everyone a beer and hope they've read enough of your posts at AI, so they realize what a swell, harmless guy you are?



ANYONE who has watched the video knows what an awful situation Denny was in.

I think it was a very real fear. AND, being the kind of guy he ultimately was shown to be (forgiving and non-bitter), perhaps he thought "I'll be okay...they're not mad at ME specifically...".

'rat, it probably came as a horrible, horrible shock and surprise to him when the ass-kicking commenced.

As he was laying there, bleeding and trying to not black out, the thought probably crossed his mind that "gee, maybe I shouldn't have stopped and just kept going through the intersection...".

HAD HE DONE THAT, and accidentally ran over someone, do you HONESTLY - knowing what you know and seeing how things tend to play out and being as observant and articulate as you come across - not thing people would lose their shit?!?!

"SEE? SEE?! That mother****er just ran over Markis! Didn't even stop!"

It would probably have inflamed the situation even worse.

When all the smoke cleared and the riots and nonsense died down, Reginald Denny WOULD have gotten into a bit of a jam because he injured someone or ran over them while trying to escape.

And there WOULD be people (I can't even ****ing believe I'm arguing this point with you) who WOULD see it NOT as a man scared shitless and driving for his life, BUT as a "white guy who ran over a black kid".

Man, I love you too (haha), but if you TRULY don't think some stink would've come out of that, then I don't even know how to talk to you.

You're on Saturn or something, man.

Do you pay attention to the news and the world? Do you not see what goes on quite a bit and how silly and backwards some things tend to get when a situation is seen ONLY as "black vs. white"?

I don't need to pick up a joint...you need to lay yours down!



[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
post #67 of 131
Thread Starter 
Tell you what, next time there's a high-profile, nationally-reported story/situation where a white person accidentally and innocently (and regretfully) makes a horrible mistake (car wreck, mistaken identity, etc.) that results in the injury, death, discomfort, lowered self-esteem, etc. of a minority of some sort, we'll meet here at AI and count the minutes it takes for the situation to get totally blown out of control, nasty, combative and made into a "us vs. them" scenario.

We'll sit together and watch how quickly it goes from a "human making a horrible mistake and wishing it never happened" to "lawsuits, protests, civil suits, solemn talk about how "America is still a racist society...", "Crossfire" debates, O'Reilly devoting a show to it, Limbaugh taking calls about it, Sharpton, Cochran, etc. getting face-time from it, etc.".

A situation just like this once occurred in my hometown. Something that was a COMPLETE accident and was done with no malice or intention was SEEN that way by those who chose to see it that way. And it became the a divisive and ugly situation that the city hadn't seen in a pretty good while.

People IMMEDIATELY made it about race, and essentially uprooted someone's life over AN ACCIDENT.

And accident that, if the race of those involved were reversed (black, law-abiding citizen accidentally injures questionable white youth in a neighborhood of shaky reputation), would've been a page 7 story AT BEST.

It would've been, correctly so, a simple, unfortunate ACCIDENT. And everyone would've gotten over it and moved on and life continues...

Instead, it's on the news every ****ing night for weeks, people are choosing up sides, threats and horrible words exchanged, everyone's on eggshells, stirring up trouble, and generally acting like low-rent, flame-fanning assholes (BOTH sides).

Don't tell ME a goddamn thing about "the world". I ****ing live in it.



[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
post #68 of 131
Did you even read what question I responded to?

Don't flake out on me now.

[quote]Reginald Denny WOULD have gotten into a bit of a jam because he injured someone or ran over them while trying to escape.<hr></blockquote>

Bullshit. Pure bullshit.

It is beyond ridiculous that you really think that they would go after Denny. There's no logic behind it besides "They're out to get me!"

[quote]Do you not see what goes on quite a bit and how silly and backwards some things tend to get when a situation is seen ONLY as "black vs. white"?<hr></blockquote>

Yeah, I know.
Crazy shit happens like, white cops getting away with beating/shooting blacks.


There is absolutely no precedent for your argument that if Denny had gunned it an run over his attackers that he would've been subjected to anything in the way of prosecution or media backlash. That is just illogical.

Are you really that paranoid?
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
post #69 of 131
Thread Starter 
No. Just a tad jaded, and a bit of a realist.



Are you really that mellow?

BTW, so you CAN run over someone and not get in trouble for it, and have to answer for it? Cool! That's good to know, just in case.



[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
post #70 of 131
Thread Starter 
BTW (just for clarification and all) I originally did ask about the "hate crime" angle, because that's a legit question.

I mean, isn't that the essence of the legislation? If someone is assaulted or killed and it can be shown (by whatever tactics or means law enforcement and attorneys may want to trot out) that the victim was treated that way due to his skin color, gender, sexual orientation, etc. isn't THAT what a hate crime is? That's my understanding of the basic gist of it at least.

If Denny ran over (or got out and shot) a white rioter or looter, then it's just "two white guys involved in a situation...". Wouldn't the race of one of the brick-throwers make it at least POSSIBLE that SOMEONE might raise their head and go "hey, wait a minute..."?

If, under the circumstanced (the danger and fearing for his life and all) that whole thing was averted (and you're right...probably would be, given the circumstances), do you REALLY think that would be the quiet end of it?

That the Sharptons, Waters, Cochrans, Gregorys, et al of the world would simply go "well, it wasn't a hate crime after all...let's pack up and go home and not talk about it any more...".

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

Do you REALLY see Denny escaping SOME sort of legal and/or financial repurcussions?

At the very least, PR-wise, he'd have his ass handed to him, don't you think?

Take the "hate crime" thing away, and you'd still have professional pot-stirrers and political hay-makers wanting a piece of Denny's ass and probably taking every opportunity they had to make sure he was known as a racist "hit and run driver" or whatever.

There's more ways for a fella to pay for mistakes than jail, you know.

Like I said, he probably would've joined the ranks of this era's popular boogeymen (Fuhrman, Duke, Metzger, etc.) and every time you heard the name "Reginald Denny", you'd probably immediately go "oh, that asshole who ran over that poor black kid during the L.A. riots...what a JERK!".



No matter what, Denny was in a HORRIBLE position that day. One that I pray I'm never in. Talk about having to choose the lesser of two evils: "Let's see: do I run for my life and maybe hurt someone in the process, OR stop my truck, stick around and take my chances with an angry mob...hmmm...this is a tough one...".

If I'm ever in that scenario, the engine gets gunned and I'll deal with the outcome of it later. I'll be damned if I stick around and get my head bashed in and know that my Mom or girlfriend has to see it on TV? Screw that...I'm pegging the gas pedal...clear the road if'n you don't want to get run over!



What's the saying? "I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six...".

True.

[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
post #71 of 131
[quote]Originally posted by macfenian:
<strong>
However, I'm sick of people going on and on about things that happened 400 years ago ...</strong><hr></blockquote>

- The Emancipation Proclamation (1863): 139 years ago
- Civil War (ends) (1865): 137 years ago
- 15th Amendment (1870): 132 years ago
- Voting Rights Law (1965) - 37 years ago
- March on Selma (1965) - 37 years ago
- Rodney King (1991) - 11 years ago
- James Byrd ( 1998 ) - 4 years ago

I hear my relatives take this kind of position all of the time, and I just have to shake my head. Yes, there has been much progress in American race relations over our history. But to declare that race issues are a thing of ancient history is to use the phrase of one poster, "delusional". I have to remind my aunts and uncles that segregation was in effect during their lifetime. There have been multiple race riots during my lifetime. Today we incarcerate a hugely disproportionate amount of minorities. By 2010, New York's planning commission predicts that the hyper-segregated ghettos of the Bronx, Harlem, and Washington Heights will have a population close to that of Houston, Texas, the fourth largest city in America.

Maybe you personally are not racist, but there is convincing evidence that our society is not color blind. As a member of society, that concerns me.

For a humanizing look at poverty and race issues in America, I would strongly recommend Jonathan Kozol's book Amazing Grace.

[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: Simple Ranger ]

[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: Simple Ranger ]

[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: Simple Ranger ]

[ 07-13-2002: Message edited by: Simple Ranger ]</p>
post #72 of 131
[quote]Originally posted by hmurchison:
<strong>

Don't know if I'd consider them "level headed" Cops that act like Criminals worry me. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Not just cops. I'm talking about people in general, and cops happen to be people, with human frailty...and most 'decent' people are heavily protective of family.

[quote]<strong>No. He should have ran their Black Asses over. One nicknamed "Football" was convicted and another one was as well.

We need to hold our Officers up to a higher standard. There</strong><hr></blockquote>

He was convicted of felony mayhem and 4 unrelated misdemeanors instead of attempted murder. He spent a grand total of 3 years in prison. He was later involved investigated for murder though I'm not sure how that story turned out.

---

pscates' question may seem way off-base (I certainly didn't think of posting it,) but if Denny had gunned his big rig and run over his would be assailants, 1) he would not have been beaten 2) we would not have the same sympathy for him. It is actually very likely Denny would have been charged with some crime, though maybe not a hate crime. Denny would definitely be sued for wrongful death by family members...and probably feel guilty for the rest of his life.
I can change my sig again!
Reply
I can change my sig again!
Reply
post #73 of 131
[quote]It is actually very likely Denny would have been charged with some crime, though maybe not a hate crime. Denny would definitely be sued for wrongful death by family members...and probably feel guilty for the rest of his life.<hr></blockquote>

MAYBE: If it hadn't been in the heat of the L.A. riots.
MAYBE: If the attackers hadn't already tried to force their way into the cab of his truck.
MAYBE: If they hadn't tried to block his exit path.

Maybe then, maybe someone besides Maxine Waters would've tried to crucify him.

Sorry, friends and neighbors, but Denny would've been free and clear, literally and figuratively. No one would've felt bad for thugs trying to riot and force their way into the cab of a truck.


The people that saved Denny... black skin.
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
post #74 of 131
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>
MAYBE: If it hadn't been in the heat of the L.A. riots.
MAYBE: If the attackers hadn't already tried to force their way into the cab of his truck.
MAYBE: If they hadn't tried to block his exit path.

Maybe then, maybe someone besides Maxine Waters would've tried to crucify him.

Sorry, friends and neighbors, but Denny would've been free and clear, literally and figuratively. No one would've felt bad for thugs trying to riot and force their way into the cab of a truck.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Uh, let's see...
Riots + chopper capturing video above + non-black truck driver mowing down rioters trying to save his own ass. This does paint a bleak picture for Denny and the over-all setting. Rioters would have been even more furious. they would have never gotten to Denny after-all, and there would have been no proof that they were actually going to do something to him...maybe just his rig.

[quote]The people that saved Denny... black skin.<hr></blockquote>

Why does this matter? Of course his saviors had black skin, but it has nothing do with what you may be implying. It's irrelevant. Every non-Black person that had been in the area was long gone...except for Denny. You just chastized pscates and now you're pulling the same sheeit. Did you see any riot cops (of any color?) come to his rescue? Of course not...they weren't even in the vicinity.

[ 07-13-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
I can change my sig again!
Reply
I can change my sig again!
Reply
post #75 of 131
You would think on this board, that the folks do a little more reading and a little less just pure getting their info from television.

First let me say point blank that I believe the cop did nothing wrong. The tape is obviously cut in a way to portray the cop in the absolute worst light.

Now on to the simple facts of the matter. Television is an interesting thing. As we all now know from our various DVD's with the making of..... you can seriously change the perception of something just by changing the angle at which it is viewed. A punch that is a clear miss can look like serious full blown contact from a different angle.

This kid despite being "slammed" into the car hood and also punched has no noticable swelling. You can bet that if there was an ounce of it they would have taken about a thousand pictures of it. The did take photos of where the chain from the necklace scratched his skin. I don't know about you but when I seriously smack my head against something, I get a sizable bump. Perhaps the things that makes the "slam" seem so hard is the fact that the guy shooting the video is going "oooowwwwwww" into the mic responding to what he sees. That noise is not from the kid, but from the camera man. The angle is from high above the car and people so the angle is not the same as just eye level.

Second the kid's actions, regardless of size or being ignored completely. They are being described as "non-compliance with police requests" which basically makes it sound like he was listening to the police and just standing there. However the videotape quite plainly shows the officer bleeding from a gash above his ear. That bleeding isn't from non-compliance of a verbal command. It is obviously from resisting arrest. The hospital treatment also included lacerations on his elbow and knee. Additionally the officer claimed in his report to have been grabbed in the testicles.

They mention that the kid was handcuffed but if he was complying, why was he still surrounded by all those cops? I see no fewer than three cops around him at any one time during the video. Various written news stories mention that it took four officers to get the boy handcuffed.

Simply put I feel the officer showed more control than I or anyone else would. He hit the kid one time with his fist to get his privates freed. He was not whipping out a baton and trying to hit one out of the park.

How exacting a manner can you expect someone to apply force? The kid needed 5 officers on scene. The officer people are making claims against had already suffered injuries to his head, elbow, knee and privates. He hit the kid exactly one time.

I personally see absolutely nothing wrong with what the police or police officer did.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #76 of 131
Apparently two sheriff deputies were making the initial stop and trying to cite the father for driving with a suspended license. The kid began to interfere so they decided to put him in the backseat of the cruiser...when they moved him to the car, he lunged at the deputy and that started a scuffle, then the Inglewood Police came in to assist and then videotaped portion begins.

It's interesting the prosecution in the suits against the more than half dozen officers is using every trick in the book though. It looks like they're going after every single uniformed person who was at the scene. They're claiming the kid has a condition that results in severe "auditory processing delays." They're saying the deputies drove by and gave them mean looks.. They're saying the Black Inglewood officer used racial slurs.

The lamest part is that we're not hearing any witness accounts other than the two sides directly involved, so it's one extreme vs the opposite extreme.
I can change my sig again!
Reply
I can change my sig again!
Reply
post #77 of 131
The riots make for an interesting case study in hate crimes legislation (which due to American politics I believe nearly unworkable): Lot's of pissed-off blacks decided to burn and loot a bunch of Asian businesses. Why? 'Cause they'd had it with whites. hahaha...

Grover, you may have the perfect blend of passive agressive bombast masquerading as rationality -- it will likely make for a successful journalistic niche.

Anyway, onto white paranoia...

We had a case here of a teen (16 or 17) who'd gotten into stealing cars. His MOTHER found out and went to the police to help snare her son. The police set up a sting. The kid tried to flee in a stolen vehicle and nearly ran over one of the cops (knocked him over with a jeep). An officer fired at the vehicle, the kid died. White officer. Off-White kid. Guess what? A media circus followed. Racism, police brutality, etc etc... Nothing (legally) came of it, but once the activistic opportunists got ahold of it, I can't imagine it was pleasant for anybody. So the white paranoia is often justified. This is not to say, that in moments of excitment any white person will restrain themselves from paranoia. The cops here had the co-operation of the mother in aprehending her son. Had he gotten away, they liekly would have been able to get him again when you consider his age (naivete) and the fact that his family was primarily interested in getting him arrested -- this wasn't a kid who would get very far. But if someone tries to run me over, I'd probably open fire too. It's a little different from a perp grabbing your nads, I think.

I was in HS when this all went down, and I remember it and the circus that followed it around that year. I knew then, that few people on either side of the race-relations debate were to be trusted. Later political examples and extremely irresponsible media have only confirmed that essential mistrust.

I think that people can, with a little mental effort, tell the difference between brutality and racism and between an honestly begotten fear and it's agressive progeny -- hatred. But a lot of people around the issues don't care to draw the neccessary (objective, if fine) distinctions. They'd much rather mould them to suit a personal end, and they do this to the detriment of the people they propose to speak for.

Uhhh... OK, that was stupid, but I'm too tired to edit it or more clearly draw the associations. I'm going to bed, finally. Hope to make more sense when I wake up.

[ 07-13-2002: Message edited by: Matsu ]</p>
IBL!
Reply
IBL!
Reply
post #78 of 131
[quote]non-black truck driver mowing down rioters trying to save his own ass. This does paint a bleak picture for Denny and the over-all setting.<hr></blockquote>

If you remember the setting that particular area wasn't swarming with rioters. He slowed down and came to a stop which gave them an opportunity to attack the truck. If I remember correctly the group that attacked him first was made up of 3 or 4 Mexican kids, not blacks. Then as they got him out of the car and started the ass-whooping more people showed up.

Denny wasn't driving through a throng of people, it was 15-20 scattered over a few blocks. Correct me if I'm wrong.

By mentioning the the people who saved them and their race is merely to illustrate that the actions of the rioters was not condoned by anyone but themselves (and that race-baiting hellhound Maxine Waters).
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
post #79 of 131
Thread Starter 
[EDIT: paring this down because it's a lot of repitition...thank futuremac]

I've spent this morning (Sunday) watching various news shows, and many of them have had this Inglewood situation as a topic, with various guests on, debating all sides of it.

Also, numerous other video clips of other "police brutality" incidents have been shown, as well as several stories or cases cited.

You know what dawned on me? In all the videos I saw (and in the stories being told): the perp/victim (take your pick) was resisting or not complying with the officer's request or demands.

Seems to me (and my simple way of thinking), that this whole issue would go away and cease to be a problem if perhaps more people (black, white, whatever) would simply quit trying to be a bad-ass, or front or engage the officers in a debate and/or actively resist and push back.

If I get pulled over, right or wrong, and a POLICE OFFICER tells me to "get up against the wall and spread 'em" or to "grab some pavement and put my hands and legs out spread eagle", guess what?

I'm going to DO IT. Not going to argue or question it.

I find it really, really hard to believe that cops simply ride around and take every opportunity they have to beat up on citizens, black or otherwise. The cop isn't going to pull out his baton or pepper spray if you're being cooperative and rational. He has no reason to. Would you? Think about it.

Put yourself in HIS position. He doesn't want to deal with a violent, dangerous nutbar and would rather you relax, act normal and deal with the situation like an adult.

That video capture of the Oklahoma guy getting whacked, they just showed the entire footage of it on CNN earlier, and this guy (in addition to being about 10" taller and a good 75 pounds heavier than the cop) simply WOULD NOT comply. The officer got one cuff on the guy and tried REPEATEDLY to get the guy's other hand. The guy spun around, walked away, kept hiding his other hand, flailing his free hand.

When the officer finally had the guy on the ground, the perp kept tucking his hand up under his body. The officer had to keep fishing for it.

Why? Why didn't he just cooperate? None of this would've happened.

How many people, upon finding out they're going to be arrested, have actually TAKEN ON the police (one lone officer or several at once) and actually got anywhere with it? No, the situation only ALWAYS gets worse and violent.

Shut up, cooperate, do what the cop says WHEN he says it and the absolute WORST that will happen is that you get handcuffs on you and have to ride down to the police station in the back of a squad car, and get booked, fingerprinted.

Has there ever been a case of someone just randomly getting an ass-beating by the cops for cooperating? Seriously? Being totally cooperative and quiet and doing what they ask?

I don't know, I'm asking. But it seems REALLY, REALLY far-fetched. Do you not think cops are aware of the outcome and downside if they go around cracking heads at random and for the sport of it? Do you think most cops willingly want to risk a career just for kicks?

Yes, sometimes the police are wrong. They get a bad description, cases of mistaken identity, make a bad judgement call, etc. Even THEN, I truly don't think they secretly get off on beating people up and are looking to do it. Even if they're wrong about you, for the time being just cooperate and NONE of this stuff has to happen.

You'll probably get an apology when it's learned that you're indeed NOT the perp they were looking for or whatever.

And if the embarrassment and shame was so horrible for you, then you can pursue some sort of protest or civil action to regain your dignity or whatever, you know? There are procedures and remedies for this type of thing.

If the cops are TOTALLY wrong about you, I'd MUCH prefer spending some time in cuffs and in a squad car or booking room than having the holy hell beat out of me with batons, sprayed with pepper spray and possibly winding up in the hospital with injuries.

If I know I've done nothing wrong, then I trust and have faith that I'll be okay, and I can take several hours of custody, questioning, booking, etc. if I know it's all for nothing.

NOTHING good is going to come out of acting like an asshole and resisting/fighting the police. Not these days.

In all the cases where police have gone too far, do you honestly think the perp kept his mouth shut, didn't say or do anything stupid or threatening, or otherwise battle or fight the police and make the situation worse?

In any case, it would be an interesting study to conduct: go back through all the cases of police brutality or beatings and see if you can find one case where the perp actually did everything right and cooperated and didn't mouth off, make threats, try and get away or attack the cops and STILL got an ass-whipping. I don't think you'll find it.

I really don't.



[ 07-14-2002: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
post #80 of 131
Thread Starter 
[edit: removed because it's just not worth it...I know who I am, and can't spend all day defending it...]

[ 07-14-2002: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › The L.A./Inglewood police beating story...