Originally Posted by segovius
Do you really see the crotch-grabbing as Left-wing? Curious.
I see it as inherently Right-wing.
Blair would have done it. Bush would have done it.
Michael Foot and Tony Benn would not have done it.
Authoritarian states are inherently left-wing. Surveillance states are inherently left wing. Bush is not much of a rightist. I said that for years. Bush had to run to the middle to get elected and caved a bit more toward the left when his election was so contentious. He caved more to the left after 9/11 and caved completely to the left after 2006. Neocon is a claimed new conservative position because it is an old liberal position.
You once claimed that war is a rightist position. I would declare that a bit too strident. Right thought requires minimal government and that goes for between governments as well. Trade should be free. Interference by government, between governments, and when dealing with commerce should be minimal. War by definition negates all of that.
The default right position is governments strong enough to stop war but unless attacked, there is no desire for war.
The default left position isn't for war, but for revolution. They don't necessarily desire to fight someone else because they desire to cause a fight and thus revolution within. They use that revolution to create an authoritarian state and then begin supplying other rebels within other countries with the means to do the same thing. They don't fight from the state mechanism to advance their ideology. The fight is always from within.
This leaves the authoritarian but not revolutionary socialist as the middle ground which is the case for most European countries. They don't want revolution but need to buy votes so there are taxes, tariffs and regulation. The great masses end up eating too much, drinking too much, being educated too little and likewise working too little. They can't purge them so the measures get more authoritarian. You don't get your promised goody bags unless you jump through a few more hoops and all of us "enlightened" folks have declared this to be fair. It isn't working out so on your side you see revolution coming on my side I see something different that I've been working up for the prediction thread.
Either way even when folks identify as conservative in the U.S. they aren't very conservative in action. They still want to not be held accountable for the house note they signed. They really do want government to pick up the mess of their lives when their health leaves them 20 years too early due to poor health decisions. They still want their Social Security, Medicare and more. The only reason they are "conservative" which is what 40% of the U.S. electorate identifies itself as is because they are disproportionately white male and the Democrats are so racist and sexist as to drive them away. These are the Reagan Democrats as they were called. They are blue collar, Catholic/religious, etc.
They've been thrown out of the Democratic party because within that party narrative, they are the problem and thus cannot be part of the solution. If you got started early enough as a white male within the party then for whatever reason, you were okay due to I guess tradition and were going to be tolerated due to your desire to help transition. Thus if you were a Bill Clinton, a John Edwards, John Kerry, Harry Reid, Al Gore, etc. you were given a sort of excuse note because the party knew they needed some faces to attract and fool those racist white voters per their own reasoning.
However this is why going forward the party has no leadership that is white male at all and why everytime the Republicans show any sign of leadership that is not white male, they Democrats go absolutely ape-shit for lack of a better term. They know people will make fun of McCain saying he is so old but don't seem to realize Harry Reid is 71 years old, only three years younger. We've seen what has happened to Clinton, Kerry, Gore, Edwards over time. The old guard is too old. Go back and look at the 2008 U.S. primaries again. It came down to Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama but who else would it have been? Joe Biden is 68 years old. Mike Gravel is 80 years old. Chris Dodd is 66 years old. That is why John Edwards with no real backing was still considered viable. He was that Democratic Great White Lie Hope at a whole 57 years old.
Barack Obama is 49 years old.
Mike Huckabee is 55 years old.
Gary E. Johnson is 53 years old.
Bob McDonnell is 56 years old.
Tim Pawlenty is 50 years old.
Marco Rubio is 39 years old.
Chris Christie is 48 years old.
John Thune is 49 years old.
Paul Ryan is 40 years old.
Older school you get:
Rick Perry is 60 years old.
Mitt Romney is 63 years old.
Newt Gingrich is 67 years old.
You look outside of white males and you get...
Sarah Palin is 46 years old.
Bobby Jindal is 39 years old.
Other quick comparisons:
Nancy Pelosi is 70 years old.
Daniel Inouye is 86 years old.
The Democrats are running out of faces to pedal their racism and sexism. If they adopted a true agenda of help for all, they could probably grab all those Blue Collar/White Male/Irish Catholic type Democrats back. However they can't do that because they are stuck with the belief that utopia isn't here due to white men and patriarchy.
In the meantime due to that racism and sexism, conservatives end up in a fight against their own party between factions that are not very conservative, but really the only place white males, Catholics and others are allowed to go whether they are conservative or not. The actual conservative elements probably better known as the Tea Party for now are more like a minority or perhaps a plurality within the actual supposedly conservative party. There are many more conservative elements outside of the Republican party but their interests are not being acted on because they are afraid to press them due to buying the racism the Democrats sell. This causes a strange duality within the Democratic party as well. They need to appear conservative to Black and Hispanic members on social issues to keep them and their beliefs from bolting to the Republican party. This is why you get oddness like California passing Prop 8 but also electing Jerry Brown and Barack Obama. It is also again, why any Republican who could move them over is attacked so viciously and irrationally by the liberal media complex.