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Apple positions iAd Producer as Adobe Flash alternative - Page 2

post #41 of 103
I wouldn't be so sure. Microsoft essentially copied Apple's playbook with Windows 7. More and more users are on mobile devices using Apple's webkit. Safari and Chrome are just two. When IE was the only game in town, Developers had to bend over for Microsoft. Developers are now in a position to insist on compliance.

You already hear some developers grumbling that they have to support HTML 5 as there are so many iOS devices rejecting Flash. Microsoft would do itself a huge favor if it switched over to Webkit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Noliving View Post

Oh don't flatter yourself, the reason why IE is going with compliance is because of the web developer community response after they announced they were still not going to be "compliant" with IE 9. The only thing that could be true is Microsoft silverlight and Adobe. But IE compliance has nothing to do with apple.
post #42 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by captbilly View Post

Who runs Apple Insider?

There was a time when I went to Apple insider to see what was new in Apple hardware and software, but now it just seems to be nothing more than the PR arm of Apple. Every new product release is presented and accepted as both entirely true, entirely objective and as a gift from god. Apple is losing market share to Android at a rate that is unprecedented in even the insanely fast world of high tech, yet this site is acting as though Apple is in control of the future of smartphones. Not only is Apple not going to dictate a switch from Flash to... whatever it is they are trying to do, but everyday I speak to people who say one of the fatal flaws of IOS is the inability to play Flash. I realize that things change and something is surely going to replace the present version of Flash, but the likely hood that it will be something that Apple is doing is becoming smaller and smaller with each passing day and each additional competing device sold. Only a year ago Apple was the undisputed leader in the mobile OS market, today they Android sell more devices every day than Apple does (and that is even if you include ipads, which aren't really comparable), and Android isn't even yet available in a Google recommended tablet version. When Android tablets finally become available early next year there is every reason to believe that there will sell more Android tablets sold than Apple tablets. Surely it makes sense for Apple to continue developing new things but if they do not change their model (closed system) they will be in no position to drive the market away from Flash and into something else.

Who runs captbilly?
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post #43 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by captbilly View Post

There was a time when I went to Apple insider to see what was new in Apple hardware and software, but now it just seems to be nothing more than the PR arm of Apple. (snip)

AppleInsider has always posted what's newsworthy in terms of Apple. Of course they're not objective i terms of what they cover, they're biased in terms of covering APPLE.

"Only a year ago Apple was the undisputed leader in the mobile OS market"

Apple was never a leader in the mobile OS market...far from it.

"Android sell more devices every day than Apple does"

Android isn't a company. Apple sells more smartphones than any Android vendor. Really, this shouldn't be surprising, had Android never existed, Samsung, Motorola, etc, would all have chosen another OS, such as Windows (which is why Google developed Android). Saying more Android devices are sold each day than iPhones is a bit like saying everybody else combined outsells Apple.

"everyday I speak to people who say one of the fatal flaws of IOS is the inability to play Flash. "

And how happy are they playing Flash on the phone they chose instead?

Flash sucks in many ways. It really sucks on mobile devices. Apple is a very powerful company today and has over 100 million active iOS users (iPad, iPhone, iPod touch) capable of receiving an HTML5 ad and not a Flash ad. Furthermore, the users of iPhones are eating up way more internet traffic per device than any other platform and most other platform devices don't run Flash either. The fact is that if you want a rich media ad for mobile devices, the best tech to reach the largest number today is HTML5, not Flash. This trend is expected to continue unless Adobe can radically change things...although they seem to be shifting towards HTML5 tool development as well.
post #44 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by macslut View Post

AppleInsider has always posted what's newsworthy in terms of Apple. Of course they're not objective i terms of what they cover, they're biased in terms of covering APPLE.

"Only a year ago Apple was the undisputed leader in the mobile OS market"

Apple was never a leader in the mobile OS market...far from it.

"Android sell more devices every day than Apple does"

Android isn't a company.

Neither is iOS.

MacSlut, you and I may have the most honest screen names on this board.
post #45 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by bedouin View Post

Mixed emotions here. On one hand I want Flash to go away, but on the other -- it just means my ad blocker will need a lot of clever updates to 'compete.' .

Indeed. Insidiously clever: while Flash blockers are all over the place and it's dirt simple for even the lamest rube to have complete control over it, with JavaScript-based ads the only way you can turn them off is to disable your web apps.
post #46 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by captbilly View Post

There was a time when I went to Apple insider to see what was new in Apple hardware and software, but now it just seems to be nothing more than the PR arm of Apple.

People looking for Mac news have all moved on to MacRumors.com

This is AI, having earned its reputation as the Fox News of the Mac World, willing to mix commentary and news interchangeably as long as it resonates with its core audience; anything for another pair of eyeballs to sell to an advertiser.

See ya' on MacRumors...
post #47 of 103
Quite a significant app for such a low-key release. But then they rarely publicise the dev tools I guess.
post #48 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by captbilly View Post

There was a time when I went to Apple insider to see what was new in Apple hardware and software, but now it just seems to be nothing more than the PR arm of Apple. Every new product release is presented and accepted as both entirely true, entirely objective and as a gift from god. Apple is losing market share to Android at a rate that is unprecedented in even the insanely fast world of high tech, yet this site is acting as though Apple is in control of the future of smartphones. Not only is Apple not going to dictate a switch from Flash to... whatever it is they are trying to do, but everyday I speak to people who say one of the fatal flaws of IOS is the inability to play Flash. I realize that things change and something is surely going to replace the present version of Flash, but the likely hood that it will be something that Apple is doing is becoming smaller and smaller with each passing day and each additional competing device sold. Only a year ago Apple was the undisputed leader in the mobile OS market, today they Android sell more devices every day than Apple does (and that is even if you include ipads, which aren't really comparable), and Android isn't even yet available in a Google recommended tablet version. When Android tablets finally become available early next year there is every reason to believe that there will sell more Android tablets sold than Apple tablets. Surely it makes sense for Apple to continue developing new things but if they do not change their model (closed system) they will be in no position to drive the market away from Flash and into something else.

You better lay off the eggnog, Captain...
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post #49 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

See ya' on MacRumors...

I have to admit, biased news is more fun to read than dry, objective reporting. Therefore if it's a field I'm expert enough in to tell fact from fantasy I will willingly go to a biased source.

As for Macrumors, it's no panacea either. I find it to be over-moderated.
post #50 of 103
Okey, I'm having a bad cold so I might have misunderstood something, but how can iAd Producer be a blow to Flash when the ads produced with it only run on a platform where Flash is not available anyway? I thought that competition requires to have a choice in the first place but Flash and IAds run in mutually exclusive spaces.
post #51 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by captbilly View Post

There was a time when I went to Apple insider to see what was new in Apple hardware and software, but now it just seems to be nothing more than the PR arm of Apple.

AppleInsider was not always like this?
post #52 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post


As for Macrumors, it's no panacea either. I find it to be over-moderated.

Damn right, the moderators are a bunch of rude arrogant autocratic little hitlers.
post #53 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

Neither is iOS.

MacSlut, you and I may have the most honest screen names on this board.


Thanks.

I didn't say iOS was a company, but the OP was comparing Android to Apple. That didn't make sense. It makes sense to compare Android to iOS or any Android (or smartphone vendor) to Apple. The point being that Apple outsells any of the Android based smartphone vendors by a pretty significant margin, making Apple a pretty significant player in the smartphone market.
post #54 of 103
If you guys think that HTML5 has any chance to be a serious competition to Adobe you are on for a trip beside being delusional.

Apple has never shown any serious ability to produce software, all they do is to buy third parties. Meanwhile Adobe has ruled the creative market for decade and has some of the best software rocket scientists on the planet.

HTML5 is an embryo that Steve Jobs shove in your throat to protect the AppStore. Who would buy all those ridiculous apps if Flash was on iPhone and users could just browse to it. Only iPhone users spend that much money for nothing.

Also, HTML5 is an absolute mess! Video is a mess, audio is a mess, the implementation is left to the browser and anyone who bet on HTML5 will soon be crying while the giants manipulate the standard to accomodate their own agenda. Did I say as a Flash developer I never, ever have to check my app on other browsers and OS?

Also, HTML5 is a standard what that means is that it takes years to implement anything considering that Apple, Adobe, Google and many others, all competitors of each other have all to agree before HTML5 makes one step. Meanwhile, Adobe has proven itself capable to deploy breakthrough in a matter of weeks or months, as it did for every single Apple's criticism.

Full Flash Player for mobile, done. Hardware acceleration even on Mac, done. New video API with 10x better performance on all OS, done.

Here some resources for you:

New Flash 10.2 to see 10x improvement in performance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geK7geL3I40

Top CEOs Advocate for Adobe Flash
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CwI227m-hs
post #55 of 103
What a ridiculous diatribe!

Quote:
Originally Posted by captbilly View Post

There was a time when I went to Apple insider to see what was new in Apple hardware and software, but now it just seems to be nothing more than the PR arm of Apple. DRIVEL DRIVEL DRIVEL ....drive the market away from Flash and into something else.
post #56 of 103
A post full of dreams from an Adobe Flash engineer....

Quote:
Originally Posted by flexengineer View Post

If you guys think that HTML5 has any chance to be a serious competition to Adobe you are on for a trip beside being delusional.
Full Flash Player for mobile, done. Hardware acceleration even on Mac, done. New video API with 10x better performance on all OS, done.
post #57 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by flexengineer View Post

If you guys think that HTML5 has any chance to be a serious competition to Adobe you are on for a trip beside being delusional.

Apple has never shown any serious ability to produce software, all they do is to buy third parties. Meanwhile Adobe has ruled the creative market for decade and has some of the best software rocket scientists on the planet....


Wonderful comedy.

You are joking right?
post #58 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

By the way it is not applicable to the web as a whole only iOS app ads not desktop browser ads. It is entirely specific to a single ad instance not ads all over a page as is commonly found in a typical web page.

Do you think that the apps from the new MacApp Store could benefit from this new capability? That way, with more ad-supported software for sale, Apple could give more revenue to its developers, while making more revenue for itself. A win-win for everyone.
post #59 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by macslut View Post

Saying more Android devices are sold each day than iPhones is a bit like saying everybody else combined outsells Apple.



Yes, that is certainly true. Apple might consider licensing iOS to other vendors if it wants to keep a critical mass. Otherwise, it will eventually be an also-ran ecosystem.
post #60 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by flexengineer View Post

If you guys think that HTML5 has any chance to be a serious competition to Adobe you are on for a trip beside being delusional.

If you think that we cannot detect that you are paid by Adobe, you too are on a trip.

Go away, troll.
post #61 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhoneLuvr1 View Post

Yes, that is certainly true. Apple might consider licensing iOS to other vendors if it wants to keep a critical mass. Otherwise, it will eventually be an also-ran ecosystem.

Not gonna happen.
post #62 of 103
All I can say to this is I'd rather pay a fair price for my apps then get apps with ads. I refuse to use any apps that have ads period.

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post #63 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by flexengineer View Post

Adobe has ruled the creative market for decade and has some of the best software rocket scientists on the planet.

Let's see... what might be some the attributes of software written by rocket scientists:

-- takes forever to launch
-- often crashes
-- inflexible to operate
-- costs a lot of money
-- some questions as to ROI
-- over engineered
-- unintelligible to the average user

Yeah, that sums it up!

BTW, someone named @flexengineer, who joins AI to make his first post to a Flash thread... raises a few eyebrows!
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post #64 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post

All I can say to this is I'd rather pay a fair price for my apps then get apps with ads. I refuse to use any apps that have ads period.

How about the best of both worlds for developers and users:

1) Have apps with iAds available free -- to allow a user to see if the app serves his needs.

2) Allow the user an in-app purchase to turn iAds off, if desired.

BTW, I suspect that we will see iAd options available for:
-- desktop apps
-- desktop browsers
-- mobile apps
-- mobile browser apps
-- AppleTV and other TV enhancers

BTW 2: AppleTV 2 will hit 1 million unit sales sometime this week (less than 3 months) -- the number of iOS devices, unadulterated by Flash, just continues to grow.

https://pennies.interactivebrokers.c...1221.nWNAB0491
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post #65 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post

All I can say to this is I'd rather pay a fair price for my apps then get apps with ads. I refuse to use any apps that have ads period.

How did you delete Safari?

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post #66 of 103
Here's another interesting HTML5/CSS3 tool: Sencha Animator

Apple should pick them up, if not Panic. I would love to see Panic develop Coda into a proper cocoa native web development IDE, perhaps Sencha Animator could be an additional tool along with CSS Edit and Sequel Pro.

Apple also needs to focus on server side development and take on .Net

A mixed attack with open source tools and languages along with server side object c would go a long way.

Server side object c:

SOPE
Bombaxtic
Bombax Source Code
Frothkit
Cappuccino

Or perhaps Apple should focus on server side JavaScript or an Adobe AIR alternative like Titanium Appcelerator
post #67 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archos View Post

Remember just a year or two ago when Flash proponents were saying HTML5 was "ten years out" and that no browsers supported enough of the spec to be useful?

Yep and then the porn industry realized folks can't see their Flashy sites on their big iPads, and started the switch to HTML5. and that will be the end of that

Make no mistakes folks, it won't be Apple that kills Flash, it will be the porn folks


Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhoneLuvr1 View Post

Yes, that is certainly true. Apple might consider licensing iOS to other vendors if it wants to keep a critical mass. Otherwise, it will eventually be an also-ran ecosystem.

The day that Apple licenses os or MacOS is the day that the Gov't tells them they must. And they will likely burn down the house to avoid it. Seriously, everyone will lay down their magic mice and walk out. Right before th place imploded. Retail stores will clap themselves out right before laying waste to their stock of computers etc. They will drink their koolaid while dancing around bonfires of those dumb matching t-shirts.

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post #68 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

Indeed. Insidiously clever: while Flash blockers are all over the place and it's dirt simple for even the lamest rube to have complete control over it, with JavaScript-based ads the only way you can turn them off is to disable your web apps.

Over simplification? Really not that difficult to figure out. Just like anti-virus software works. You develop a signature of how the ads work and you insert some CSS display:none or innerHTML on the div. Same click to view is also really easy.

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post #69 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erunno View Post

Okey, I'm having a bad cold so I might have misunderstood something, but how can iAd Producer be a blow to Flash when the ads produced with it only run on a platform where Flash is not available anyway? I thought that competition requires to have a choice in the first place but Flash and IAds run in mutually exclusive spaces.

That is simply AI spin doctoring and the anti-Adobe zealots are happy to run with it.

Flash has a lot going for it as does Javascript. I think the big difference in what Apple is trying to do is bring a bit of class to web advertising. Nobody likes a page full of annoying Flash ads for products you probably have no interest in. The ad industry is lazy and they just want to shove an ad in a div and let the client pick up the tab. It is a numbers game. More volume = more money.

Conversely Apple wants to develop high quality ads with cinematic like qualities for products and brands that everyone admires, recognizes and respects to begin with. Their approach is to start with a nonintrusive static banner and upon clicking it expands into a full screen experience. Not to say that others will not try to exploit JS ads by animating them in place and sling the same old crap but I think Apple will deliver a high quality advertisement that people will want to watch whether they are in the market for that product or not.

For now the iAds only work in the iOS app environment but it is not much of a leap to see them run on the web as well. As noted earlier that will necessitate Apple controlling the entire page but some high profile sites may be cooperative in that endeavor.

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post #70 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

How did you delete Safari?

I really don't use mobile Safari that much (only when I have to). I use firefox with adblock plus on my desktop computers.

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post #71 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Over simplification? Really not that difficult to figure out. Just like anti-virus software works. You develop a signature of how the ads work and you insert some CSS display:none or innerHTML on the div. Same click to view is also really easy.

Brilliant and foolproof, because of course once you share your solution it's not like the multi-billion-dollar ad industry would have any motivation to change the patterns in their code.

Gee, 'llI bet it's really easy to write anti-virus software too...
post #72 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by flexengineer View Post

If you guys think that HTML5 has any chance to be a serious competition to Adobe you are on for a trip beside being delusional.

Apple has never shown any serious ability to produce software, all they do is to buy third parties. Meanwhile Adobe has ruled the creative market for decade and has some of the best software rocket scientists on the planet.

Delusions about the present failure of Flash aside, you are familiar with the fact the Adobe didn't have anything to do with Flash's development, right? It competed against Flash with open web-based tools including SVG until it ACQUIRED MACROMEDIA in 2005!

Are you really that ignorant?
post #73 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

Brilliant and foolproof, because of course once you share your solution it's not like the multi-billion-dollar ad industry would have any motivation to change the patterns in their code..

That would make sense if we didn't have the evidence that the ad industry is so lazy they don't even bother to check if you are running a Flash blocker and offer up a different format. Or for that matter to even create a different format for devices that can't read Flash. There are only certain standard sizes and positions for web ads plus the urls have a very distinct format as do the names of the divs. So yes they are very predictable. There are already a few ad blockers available that do exactly what I described.

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post #74 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archos View Post

Delusions about the present failure of Flash aside, you are familiar with the fact the Adobe didn't have anything to do with Flash's development, right? It competed against Flash with open web-based tools including SVG until it ACQUIRED MACROMEDIA in 2005!

Are you really that ignorant?

If Flash is a failure, then what is SVG?
post #75 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by icebox_br View Post

The article doesn't say that Apple is the only responsible for MS making IE9 compliant.

It says that Apple's push has created awareness in the market. Developers liked the idea and pressured MS. And it took some time for that to happen... Apple partnered with Opera and other players and started WHAT-WG some years ago!

So, Apple is not the only responsible for MS making IE9 compliant, but they sure helped shape the movement that ended up forcing MS to "behave".


Cheers,
_iCeb0x_

It doesn't spell it out but it definitely tries to imply that it is the biggest/main factor behind it and it just isn't true.

Apple didn't push it ice box, developers were already complaining and as soon as Firefox began to take off the developer complaints started to increase greatly. Apple isn't a reason at all for why IE is becoming standards complaint.

The only thing Apple has possibly really done is try end things like Adobe flash and prevent Microsoft Silverlight from becoming dominant in terms of video.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

I wouldn't be so sure. Microsoft essentially copied Apple's playbook with Windows 7. More and more users are on mobile devices using Apple's webkit. Safari and Chrome are just two. When IE was the only game in town, Developers had to bend over for Microsoft. Developers are now in a position to insist on compliance.

You already hear some developers grumbling that they have to support HTML 5 as there are so many iOS devices rejecting Flash. Microsoft would do itself a huge favor if it switched over to Webkit.

I would be considering that up until Google Chrome, webkit only had about <5% of market share and firefox had around 20-25%.

Mobile web browsing has definitely increased but the vast majority of the web is still done using desktop versions of browser primarily IE and Firefox. Developers are now in a position to insist on compliance because of firefox. Not apple. Apple has only recently become important.

Why would they do themselves a huge favor using webkit? IE 9's Trident 5.0 engine in a lot of ways just as good as webkit. Webkit is probably one of the most buggiest engines out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

Nonsense, of course it does. The market is moving dynamically in unison because of Apple digging in its heals. Why else would it be happening? Apple is creating the critical mass to finally bury proprietary crapware like silverlight and flash.

No it is primarily because of Firefox, as I said before, the only thing it can take credit for is flash and silverlight. Thats it. Firefox is the real reason why standard compliance became an issue, because developers finally had a choice because of them, it was the first and still is the number #1 competitor to Microsofts market share.
post #76 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

Wonderful comedy.

You are joking right?

truthfully, the minute I see "html5 vs flash" I begin zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

As long as it garners hits, it'll still be flogged. It's for fools.

ATM though, I'm trying to figure out how html5 alt iAds to flash, on a platform which only runs on iOS, and disallows flash, is an "alternative. Alternative to something that isn't on... iOS? Wha??

People actually buy this trumped up crap? Really?
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post #77 of 103
Thank you. I've been waiting for a response from you. Apples and Oranges. They are mutually exclusive products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

truthfully, the minute I see "html5 vs flash" I begin zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

As long as it garners hits, it'll still be flogged. It's for fools.

ATM though, I'm trying to figure out how html5 alt iAds to flash, on a platform which only runs on iOS, and disallows flash, is an "alternative. Alternative to something that isn't on... iOS? Wha??

People actually buy this trumped up crap? Really?
post #78 of 103
well it's nice to be thought of anyway.
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post #79 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbarriault View Post

This doesn't seem to be publicly available. I wasn't able to download it using my free developer account.

I thought I was going crazy - you log in and then the next page has no links for the iAd Producer. Then you make a search and the only result takes you back where you started ...so you log in
(and then the whole thing repeats itself).

What am I missing?
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post #80 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

So yes they are very predictable. There are already a few ad blockers available that do exactly what I described.

Advanced ad blockers like Adblock Plus can also filter out requests before they are send. Only using CSS hiding is very fragile, still downloads the ads, still uploads statistics to the ad server and can't deal with every type of ad (e.g. in-video ads) so it's only employed if blocking is not possible or to clear up a page. For instance, the Adblock Plus filter subscription EasyList uses a mix of general filters as well as site-specific filters to deal with advertisement. Fortunately the majority of advertisement on the web is served by only several dozens of advertisement domains so it's easy to deal with 80+ percent of advertisement with a comparatively little amount of filters.
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