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Apple positions iAd Producer as Adobe Flash alternative - Page 3

post #81 of 103
12/22/10 at 7:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Sure but the on load event issue and css class conflicts remain. There are undoubtably more knowledgeable developers than me who could shed light on this situation.

Namespacing and building sites using JavaScript classes (as opposed to just a bunch of global functions) can definitely help with this. There are various ways around the issue of onload conflicts: it's possible to register multiple event handlers for a single event, like onload or onbeforeunload; global code can sometimes be used to achieve a similar effect (or to register event handlers); and the order of script and css loading (the order they are specified in the source) can be used to some extent to affect how things execute.

But, of course, one needs to design one's pages and site around what's going to be on them. This is no less true when using Flash than when using JavaScript. Just randomly plunking content into a page is always a recipe for disaster. So, even if many of today's sites are built around the fact that they are serving ads with Flash, companies redesign sites all the time, and competent developers will be able to deal with the issues involved, whether they be Flash or JavaScript related.

So, this is not a "JavaScript issue", it's a general issue of all web development.
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post #82 of 103
12/22/10 at 7:58am
apparently you missed the 'encapsulated' part of the conversation in regards to flash. So no, it isn't the same at all.
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post #83 of 103
12/22/10 at 8:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

apparently you missed the 'encapsulated' part of the conversation in regards to flash. So no, it isn't the same at all.

Right, because you can just put Flash on a page with no regard for anything and have a great site. Unfortunately, it seems that too many Flash "developers" have the same mindset as you.
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post #84 of 103
12/22/10 at 11:30am
I guess you didn't understand what was referred to, so you immediately lapse into "you flash developer you!!"

Go learn the concepts before mouthing off.
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post #85 of 103
12/22/10 at 11:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

I guess you didn't understand what was referred to, so you immediately lapse into "you flash developer you!!"

Go learn the concepts before mouthing off.

I understand exactly what was referred to. Note, you are the one engaging in personally directed attacks since you have no valid point to make. The issues are, as I said previously, broadly the same whether using Flash or JavaScript -- you have to know what you are doing.
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post #86 of 103
12/22/10 at 1:06pm
Has anyone been able to download iAd Producer yet? I can't believe Apple announces this without showing a download link??? OR at least explain what is needed to be allowed to download it.

It says log in to download - but then all traces of the app disappears ?!?
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post #87 of 103
12/22/10 at 1:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Namespacing and building sites using JavaScript classes (as opposed to just a bunch of global functions) can definitely help with this. There are various ways around the issue of onload conflicts: it's possible to register multiple event handlers for a single event, like onload or onbeforeunload; global code can sometimes be used to achieve a similar effect (or to register event handlers); and the order of script and css loading (the order they are specified in the source) can be used to some extent to affect how things execute.

But, of course, one needs to design one's pages and site around what's going to be on them. This is no less true when using Flash than when using JavaScript. Just randomly plunking content into a page is always a recipe for disaster. So, even if many of today's sites are built around the fact that they are serving ads with Flash, companies redesign sites all the time, and competent developers will be able to deal with the issues involved, whether they be Flash or JavaScript related.

So, this is not a "JavaScript issue", it's a general issue of all web development.

All good points for general best practices in web development, however, that was precisely what I was getting at, although perhaps not as well articulated. When the code coming from remote ad servers is plunked into the div, there is little opportunity for the expert developer to add them to the onload event list without some kind of automated management system.

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post #88 of 103
12/22/10 at 4:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zab The Fab View Post

Has anyone been able to download iAd Producer yet? I can't believe Apple announces this without showing a download link??? OR at least explain what is needed to be allowed to download it.

It says log in to download - but then all traces of the app disappears ?!?

You have to have an iPhone developer account. You can't get it with a Mac account or a free online account. There's zero reason for you to have it without an iPhone account, so they don't offer it for people to "fiddle" with.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #89 of 103
12/22/10 at 4:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

You have to have an iPhone developer account. You can't get it with a Mac account or a free online account. There's zero reason for you to have it without an iPhone account, so they don't offer it for people to "fiddle" with.

Well I was hoping to use the HTML and CSS3 features on a website. It does develop web-apps. But perhaps there is no way to extract the code and use it on a website.
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post #90 of 103
12/22/10 at 6:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by captbilly View Post

There was a time when I went to Apple insider to see what was new in Apple hardware and software, but now it just seems to be nothing more than the PR arm of Apple. Every new product release is presented and accepted as both entirely true, entirely objective and as a gift from god. Apple is losing market share to Android at a rate that is unprecedented in even the insanely fast world of high tech, yet this site is acting as though Apple is in control of the future of smartphones. Not only is Apple not going to dictate a switch from Flash to... whatever it is they are trying to do, but everyday I speak to people who say one of the fatal flaws of IOS is the inability to play Flash. I realize that things change and something is surely going to replace the present version of Flash, but the likely hood that it will be something that Apple is doing is becoming smaller and smaller with each passing day and each additional competing device sold. Only a year ago Apple was the undisputed leader in the mobile OS market, today they Android sell more devices every day than Apple does (and that is even if you include ipads, which aren't really comparable), and Android isn't even yet available in a Google recommended tablet version. When Android tablets finally become available early next year there is every reason to believe that there will sell more Android tablets sold than Apple tablets. Surely it makes sense for Apple to continue developing new things but if they do not change their model (closed system) they will be in no position to drive the market away from Flash and into something else.

Pure fantasy
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post #91 of 103
12/23/10 at 5:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

All good points for general best practices in web development, however, that was precisely what I was getting at, although perhaps not as well articulated. When the code coming from remote ad servers is plunked into the div, there is little opportunity for the expert developer to add them to the onload event list without some kind of automated management system.

Well, if they are being retrieved at the point before onload fires, they can register themselves as handlers for the event.
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post #92 of 103
12/23/10 at 12:42pm
You just can not use Javascript to do what Flash can do. Design and esthetics are a different matter. A Flash file wrapped in div tags can be placed anywhere on a page without affecting any other scripting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Right, because you can just put Flash on a page with no regard for anything and have a great site. Unfortunately, it seems that too many Flash "developers" have the same mindset as you.
Yeshua Hamashia Mashiach
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post #93 of 103
12/23/10 at 1:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronHeadSlim View Post

You just can not use Javascript to do what Flash can do. Design and esthetics are a different matter. A Flash file wrapped in div tags can be placed anywhere on a page without affecting any other scripting.

Yes, we've all seen the sites designed by people who believe this. You know, the ones where the page really doesn't work because various elements overlap, stuff gets pushed off screen, etc, etc.

People are already including third party JavaScripts on pages all over the place. Google Analytics, menuing scripts, and so on and so on. It's really not as big a deal as you think it is.
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post #94 of 103
12/23/10 at 2:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

Originally Posted by AppleInsider
Apple's efforts to push mobile content back to using web standards--leveraged by its powerful position in smartphones, tablets and media players, has prompted Adobe to refocus efforts on delivering HTML5 tools and has forced Microsoft to dramatically scale back its plans for Silverlight and instead focus on delivering HTML5 compliance in future versions of its Internet Explorer browser.



Please get yourself an education on this topic since you don't have anything intelligent to add. Dan is right on the money - one merely needs to look at what is happening with these two companies to understand this.

Except for the fact that Microsoft hasn't scaled back any plans for Silverlight, its still due to have its 5th release in 4 years and is still the framework they plan to use on many different platforms. What Dan has really done is show a complete misunderstanding of anything outside of Apple. The goal of Silverlight in browsers has always been to provide cross browser functionality where browsers natively miss the functionality. As browsers get better the recomendation has always been to do things natively.
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post #95 of 103
12/23/10 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

Except for the fact that Microsoft hasn't scaled back any plans for Silverlight, its still due to have its 5th release in 4 years and is still the framework they plan to use on many different platforms. What Dan has really done is show a complete misunderstanding of anything outside of Apple. The goal of Silverlight in browsers has always been to provide cross browser functionality where browsers natively miss the functionality. As browsers get better the recomendation has always been to do things natively.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...for_html5.html

Quote:
... Bob Muglia, president of Microsoft's Servers and Tools Division, told ZDNet's Mary-Jo Foley that, while Silverlight has some sweet spots in media and line-of-business applications, it's now seen primarily as the application platform for Windows Phone.

That positions Silverlight as being the "Cocoa Touch" of WP7, rather than a cross platform killer of Flash on the web.

Noting that "our [Silverlight] strategy has shifted," Muglia explained, "HTML is the only true cross platform solution for everything, including [Apples] iOS platform." ...
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post #96 of 103
12/24/10 at 6:02am
And yet Flash can be and is used exactly like I said without problems if it is done right. I don't care that there are people that don't know how to build a website. Flash is apparently not your problem but poor use of it is. Please try to be able to see the difference. There are plenty of poorly designed and implemented Javascript pages.


Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Yes, we've all seen the sites designed by people who believe this. You know, the ones where the page really doesn't work because various elements overlap, stuff gets pushed off screen, etc, etc.

People are already including third party JavaScripts on pages all over the place. Google Analytics, menuing scripts, and so on and so on. It's really not as big a deal as you think it is.
Yeshua Hamashia Mashiach
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post #97 of 103
12/24/10 at 6:08am
I remember back in May when you joined the forum and defended mobile Flash but virtually everyone jumped all over you because they didn't think it would ever work, well it works. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

well it's nice to be thought of anyway.
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post #98 of 103
12/24/10 at 6:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronHeadSlim View Post

And yet Flash can be and is used exactly like I said without problems if it is done right. ...

So, you've finally come around to my point of view.
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post #99 of 103
12/24/10 at 8:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronHeadSlim View Post

I remember back in May when you joined the forum and defended mobile Flash but virtually everyone jumped all over you because they didn't think it would ever work, well it works. Thanks.

If you call jerky video, that sometimes plays, sometimes doesn't, games, etc. that don't work because there's no mouseover support, rapid battery drain, and so on, and so on, "working".
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post #100 of 103
12/24/10 at 9:51am
Not really meaning to be argumentative. I like using a little bit of Flash for some movement here and there and it is easy to implement. I have an iPhone but I saw some of the Flash I did on a friend's EVO and it seems to work well. When there is a good replacement for the Flash Pro tool I will be glad to look at it.

Have a great Christmas.


Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

If you call jerky video, that sometimes plays, sometimes doesn't, games, etc. that don't work because there's no mouseover support, rapid battery drain, and so on, and so on, "working".
Yeshua Hamashia Mashiach
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post #101 of 103
12/24/10 at 6:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

I understand exactly what was referred to. Note, you are the one engaging in personally directed attacks since you have no valid point to make. The issues are, as I said previously, broadly the same whether using Flash or JavaScript -- you have to know what you are doing.

no, clearly you don't, as they were mentioned and it sailed right over you, and you spieled endlessly about js code that had ver little to do with a distinct difference we mentioned, and then you exclaimed I think all flash is ok, when of course I didn't. You seem to have a thing for running in circles, and asserting someone said something when they didn't. Perhaps you can't point out where, I said all flash was just fine.

No, my comments were no more 'personally directed attacks' than yours. You need to slow down, and read what is being said. Some of us here understand the pros and cons of these technologies, and don't see the need to get incredibly upset and rude because we really really hate one of them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by IronHeadSlim View Post

Not really meaning to be argumentative. I like using a little bit of Flash for some movement here and there and it is easy to implement. I have an iPhone but I saw some of the Flash I did on a friend's EVO and it seems to work well. When there is a good replacement for the Flash Pro tool I will be glad to look at it.

Have a great Christmas.

As would I, though I haven't found the video to be jerky, the battery doesn't drain any faster than other intensive apps, and find the gesture multi touch api actually works. But then I don't read a blog and shriek it's true then.
I have issues with other things but I don't see the need to exaggerate constantly simply because I dislike one of them. Useless.
What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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post #102 of 103
12/24/10 at 7:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

People are already including third party JavaScripts on pages all over the place. Google Analytics, menuing scripts, and so on and so on. It's really not as big a deal as you think it is.

Oh please. don't bring Analytics into the discussion to support your assertions of JS superiority, that application is almost entirely built on Flash as is google finance.

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post #103 of 103
12/25/10 at 1:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

How about the best of both worlds for developers and users:

1) Have apps with iAds available free -- to allow a user to see if the app serves his needs.

2) Allow the user an in-app purchase to turn iAds off, if desired.

Lovely, now how about giving me the option of using flash or not on my iOS devices?
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