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1 million Apple TV sales seen as 'positive, but fairly immaterial' - Page 2

post #41 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjthomps View Post

I'll take the profits out of the $99,000,000 in sales.

Apples hobby appears to have more revenue and profit than many of their competitors with their <Apple_product>-killers.
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post #42 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcahill009 View Post

Why would you reply to someones comment without reading what they replied to??


My bad! Should have read carefully!

post #43 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

BTW, Bu-ray isnt a huge hit with DVD outselling Blu-rays and with streaming media far exceeding Blu-ray around the world, in both number of videos and total streaming of videos.


That is rubbish and you know it. Blu-ray is making more money than downloads. The stats you are referencing include VOD.
post #44 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by wally626 View Post

There is no particular reason to add an optical disk to the player, it just raises the cost of the device to way over $99 plus making it bigger.

I don't know about the 'way over' but you are correct that putting in an optical drive would raise the cost. Many folks forget that there are hardware costs AND legal costs. Apple would have to license the rights to include the tech, particularly for blu-ray. This is why they didn't get into the biz in the first place. In the early days to license blu-ray you were talking to an easy dozen different folks. If any one said no, you were hosed. Apple didn't find that a worthwhile mess to get into and started the whole download thing.

Licensing hits them all over. That's why a 3G iPad is more than $100 over the same size wifi. They have to pay for the part and permission to use it
post #45 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by gcom006 View Post

... And again, what's great about these players is that they cover yesterday with DVD, today with Blu-Ray and all that streaming your talking about. It's a great product that will aptly help to usher in the streaming-only age. ...

And just exactly why would any Blu-Ray player have streaming as well as optical disc playback? Because the manufacturers know that Blu-Ray is just an interim step toward that "streaming-only age." They're hedging their bets. Future-proofing a product that consumers resisted by adding forward-looking technology to it. Think of Apple TV as not being burdened with the backward compatibility problem of supporting DVDs and Blu-Ray discs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gcom006 View Post

... The market most likely to latch on to such a product today isn't interested in it as it's too limited in terms of handling files and outputting HD audio and video. ...

"The market" consists of average TV viewers. And a large portion of them never learned to set the time on their VCRs. The very mention of "outputting files" makes them cringe. Simple is better in the home entertainment market. Apple has moved Apple TV past the bleeding-edge early-adopter fringe to the mainstream. (And as we'll see very soon, Google TV will suffer in part because Google didn't move beyond that techno-fringe market, but that's a whole different "bag of hurt" than Blu-Ray.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gcom006 View Post

... There are some really cool ideas behind Apple TV, but it's just not set to be a mainstream hit anytime soon. Apps and gaming could very well change that though. ...

What you're saying is that Apple TV isn't conventional enough to appeal to the mass market. I disagree. I think simpler is better, and Apple TV certainly is simple. When Apple brings the simplicity of iOS apps, especially games, to Apple TV, it will really take off.

After all, that's one reason why Apple went to the trouble of replacing the old Apple TV's Mac-based hardware and software complexity with iOS device simplicity, no? So it can run iOS apps. That's Apple TV's true killer feature, and it's sold well despite not having it yet.

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post #46 of 83
I can't justify the ATV yet (already stream Netflix from my new TV), but streaming anything from my DVR to my iPad/iPhone/Macbook is boss!
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post #47 of 83
About BluRay: while it will gradually supplant SD DVD hardware over time, the problem is that only about 10% of consumers really care about getting the best PQ, and maybe 10% want to collect lots of movies to play repeatedly, but 80% care about paying high prices for stuff. and the mediacos are still demanding premium prices for BD discs. HD streaming rentals are just a better deal - not the best PQ, but better than DVD. and easily "portable." a decent compromise at about 1/3 the price of the BD version. so that's where the market is going ... including AppleTV.

About DVR: problem is the channel tuner/cable setup that has to come with it. Poor TiVo has a good product but small sales because of this. lacking scale, its subscription fee is much too high. the cablecos have strangled this market with their local monopolies and crippled DVR cable boxes. yeah, hobbyists can work around all this with good hardware you can buy and hook up, but they are less than 10% of the market too. not enough for AppleTV.

About apps: Apple would be crazy not to add apps to ATV2 one way or another - there are different possible ways. so i gotta think they will announce this next month right after CES, and launch with the release of iPad2. linking iPod touch/iPad somehow with ATV makes the most sense because they are the best possible remote controls with touch UI, accelerometer, cameras, etc.

About HEC convergence: ultimately Apple needs to sell its own brand of HDTV with ATV built in (and decent speakers). one beautiful piece of hardware that is all you need. that's what 80% of consumers really want. No STB's, no receivers, no game consoles, no wires and cables to hook up. nuttin'. plug and play - everything. Apple already sells 27" HD monitors. so i gotta think this is coming - as soon as next fall. the ultimate extension of the Apple iTunes/iOS ecosystem. at which point, Apple controls the living room.
post #48 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Apple would have to license the rights to include the tech, particularly for blu-ray. This is why they didn't get into the biz in the first place. In the early days to license blu-ray you were talking to an easy dozen different folks. If any one said no, you were hosed. Apple didn't find that a worthwhile mess to get into and started the whole download thing.

Do you still actually believe the licensing "bag of hurt" nonsense that Jobs spewed? Yes, licensing is so difficult that every major home electronics company has somehow managed to accomplish it. Jobs real interest is in pushing the whole iTunes ecology where they control the entire chain from content distribution to playback. They're trying to lock users into that system so that even if a better alternative comes along, users have no choice but to stick with Apple.

It should also be noted that Apple is a member of the Blu-Ray Disc Alliance. If licensing is such a complicated mess, maybe Apple should push for it being simplified.
post #49 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

Do you still actually believe the licensing "bag of hurt" nonsense that Jobs spewed? Yes, licensing is so difficult that every major home electronics company has somehow managed to accomplish it. Jobs real interest is in pushing the whole iTunes ecology where they control the entire chain from content distribution to playback. They're trying to lock users into that system so that even if a better alternative comes along, users have no choice but to stick with Apple.

You are saying that license wasnt in any way, shape or form part of the issue Apple had with Blu-ray back when Jobs made that statement? If so, what proof do you have to that effect? BTW, showing that others licensed Blu-ray is not proof. In fact, the licensing being changed after Jobs statement does point to Jobs statement as being truthful.

Note that being truthful does not mean its the complete truth. Jobs statement was clearly directed to put the blame squarely on Blu-ray when they largest issue for Apple may not have been the silly Blu-ray licensing rules but the fact that Apple had an ultimate goal of getting away from the slow, large, power hungry components with moving parts prone to failure while also pushing their long term goal of media-independent digital content.

These last two put the blame on Apple, while the first one while being absolutely truthful puts the fault on Blu-ray. Which one do you think makes sense marketing sense?
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post #50 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You are saying that license wasn’t in any way, shape or form part of the issue Apple had with Blu-ray back when Jobs made that statement? If so, what proof do you have to that effect? BTW, showing that others licensed Blu-ray is not proof. In fact, the licensing being changed after Jobs statement does point to Jobs statement as being truthful.

Note that being truthful does not mean it’s the complete truth. Jobs’ statement was clearly directed to put the blame squarely on Blu-ray when they largest issue for Apple may not have been the silly Blu-ray licensing rules but the fact that Apple had an ultimate goal of getting away from the slow, large, power hungry components with moving parts prone to failure while also pushing their long term goal of media-independent digital content.

These last two put the blame on Apple, while the first one —while being absolutely truthful — puts the fault on Blu-ray. Which one do you think makes sense marketing sense?

the problem very possibly was not licensing at all. it was probably the required HDCP-protected DRM "pathway" that had to be built into the OS itself, of which HDMI ports are the visible part. Apple TV is HDCP compliant, independent of any connected computer. but we didn't see an HDMI port on a Mac until the most recent Mini model that came after Snow Leopard and all its "under the hood" OS X modifications. So Snow Leopard is presumably HDCP complaint. Leopard must not have been. that was the "bag of hurt."
post #51 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

Well I'm an Apple user, I use one hell of a lot of Apple products and I've got a Blu Ray player.

Just because you use Apple products does not mean you won't own Blu Ray players etc!

On to the rest of the article, the App store..... Damn right captain obvious, this thing needs an app store badly, perhaps not so much for the US customers but for us Brits and the rest of the world.

The App store would allow the BBC to role out iPlayer within the UK for instance which would be a major selling point over here.

I love my new Apple TV but it's not nearly as awesome as it could so easily be.

That inane mantra you hear all the time on here.
Just because Steve thinks Blu-ray is a bag of hurt and doesn't like it, his cultist followers fall right into line. Meanwhile Blu-ray is the biggest seller and has penetrated the living room more than ATV or Google TV ever will unless they can master 1080P and 7.1 lossless sound.
Steve Jobs lost the living room to Blu-ray players now featuring with Amazon, Netflix, Pandora etc.

In other news the Amazon WiFi Kindle has sold out until after Christmas. I wonder how many millions of Jeff Bezos' "hobby" sold?
post #52 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLiver View Post

That inane mantra you hear all the time on here.
Just because Steve thinks Blu-ray is a bag of hurt and doesn't like it, his cultist followers fall right into line. Meanwhile Blu-ray is the biggest seller and has penetrated the living room more than ATV or Google TV ever will unless they can master 1080P and 7.1 lossless sound.
Steve Jobs lost the living room to Blu-ray players now featuring with Amazon, Netflix, Pandora etc.

it’s funny how you put a single product against all Blu-ray players. How about you put all HEC devices that stream media against all Blu-ray players. Can you guess which one wins when you do compare methods for obtaining content?¡

I’ll quote SockRolid, "And just exactly why would any Blu-Ray player have streaming as well as optical disc playback? Because the manufacturers know that Blu-Ray is just an interim step toward that "streaming-only age." They're hedging their bets. Future-proofing a product that consumers resisted by adding forward-looking technology to it. Think of Apple TV as not being burdened with the backward compatibility problem of supporting DVDs and Blu-Ray discs."
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post #53 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Why do people always assume their personal experience is the norm? Apple doesn't need to improve service. You need to fix your problem.

I have to agree with you. I had the original ATV since day one and upgraded the software everytime it came out. I eventually added a larger hard drive. Tried and dumped Boxee. Over time it got slower and PAINFULLY SLOWER at downloading a video. I kept thinking the servers must be getting busier as more user came on board. Just recently I ran a restore (wipe clean/reinstall factory settings) and all the updates and guess what, it was back to the speeds of offering up my videos to watch within a couple minutes! My software must have been corrupted.

I just bought a ATV2 and am thinking about hacking the ATV into a mini Mac to see what it can do.
post #54 of 83
If you are an Apple person...ie, iphones, Apple laptops, iMacs, etc., you should have an AppleTV!

It is worth the price of admission just to have your photos streamed to your flat screen TV, with internet music playing in the background.

We just take tons of photos and put them in iPhoto and then stream them over....we view our photos this way a lot more than we ever looked at them on a computer, in a photo album, or shoe box!

We have them on anytime family and friends come over and all the time during the holidays when people just drop by!

It really is cool!

Best
post #55 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

If you're having problems with insanely long download times, check to see if you're using OpenDNS or GoogleDNS. If you are, revert to your ISP's local DNS servers and you're likely to be shocked at the improvement. The problem is in way Akamai uses location intelligence based on your DNS server name to point you to the closest/fastest entry point to their 'wormhole'.
I did this and download times dropped from 30 hours to 'ready to play in 2 minutes'.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...oogle_dns.html

I am still not convinced of the accuracy of the analysis in that article. Does not make sense to me.

I have not rented anything from iTunes with my aTV but have watched several Netflix titles and they stream immediately. Bears mentioning that I use my office's DNS servers on my home network, not my cable provider's DNS. Either way I don't see how Google or OpenDNS should affect Akami's proxy or load balancing configuration. It appears that Akami uses only their own DNS not remotely cached zone transfers.

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post #56 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

About HEC convergence: ultimately Apple needs to sell its own brand of HDTV with ATV built in (and decent speakers). one beautiful piece of hardware that is all you need. that's what 80% of consumers really want. No STB's, no receivers, no game consoles, no wires and cables to hook up. nuttin'. plug and play - everything. Apple already sells 27" HD monitors. so i gotta think this is coming - as soon as next fall. the ultimate extension of the Apple iTunes/iOS ecosystem. at which point, Apple controls the living room.

i agree with all of your other comments, but i can't see Apple being [or wanting to be] successful in the TV market. while you and i may purchase an Apple branded TV, i don't see enough of the market, and DEFINITELY not the 80% you speak of, paying the premium price that apple charges [how much is their 27" monitor vs. a 27" Vizio TV?].
as far as TV's go, profits are razor thin and quality brands like Zenith have been replaced with bargain-basement brands like Vizio.
post #57 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

About BluRay: while it will gradually supplant SD DVD hardware over time, the problem is that only about 10% of consumers really care about getting the best PQ, and maybe 10% want to collect lots of movies to play repeatedly, but 80% care about paying high prices for stuff. and the mediacos are still demanding premium prices for BD discs. HD streaming rentals are just a better deal - not the best PQ, but better than DVD. and easily "portable." a decent compromise at about 1/3 the price of the BD version. so that's where the market is going ... including AppleTV.

About DVR: problem is the channel tuner/cable setup that has to come with it. Poor TiVo has a good product but small sales because of this. lacking scale, its subscription fee is much too high. the cablecos have strangled this market with their local monopolies and crippled DVR cable boxes. yeah, hobbyists can work around all this with good hardware you can buy and hook up, but they are less than 10% of the market too. not enough for AppleTV.

About apps: Apple would be crazy not to add apps to ATV2 one way or another - there are different possible ways. so i gotta think they will announce this next month right after CES, and launch with the release of iPad2. linking iPod touch/iPad somehow with ATV makes the most sense because they are the best possible remote controls with touch UI, accelerometer, cameras, etc.

About HEC convergence: ultimately Apple needs to sell its own brand of HDTV with ATV built in (and decent speakers). one beautiful piece of hardware that is all you need. that's what 80% of consumers really want. No STB's, no receivers, no game consoles, no wires and cables to hook up. nuttin'. plug and play - everything. Apple already sells 27" HD monitors. so i gotta think this is coming - as soon as next fall. the ultimate extension of the Apple iTunes/iOS ecosystem. at which point, Apple controls the living room.

so you're saying that the tens of millions who own consoles don't really want them? they want the crappy games in the app store that get old after a day instead of Call of Duty Black Ops that just hit a billion $$$ in sales in a few months?

iOS games are nice but no life in them
post #58 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I am still not convinced of the accuracy of the analysis in that article. Does not make sense to me.

I have not rented anything from iTunes with my aTV but have watched several Netflix titles and they stream immediately. Bears mentioning that I use my office's DNS servers on my home network, not my cable provider's DNS. Either way I don't see how Google or OpenDNS should affect Akami's proxy or load balancing configuration. It appears that Akami uses only their own DNS not remotely cached zone transfers.

netflix uses level 3 for CDN, not akamai
post #59 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

i agree with all of your other comments, but i can't see Apple being [or wanting to be] successful in the TV market. while you and i may purchase an Apple branded TV, i don't see enough of the market, and DEFINITELY not the 80% you speak of, paying the premium price that apple charges [how much is their 27" monitor vs. a 27" Vizio TV?].
as far as TV's go, profits are razor thin and quality brands like Zenith have been replaced with bargain-basement brands like Vizio.

true, it would be a high end product. but 5%-10% of a $100 billion annual market is still a lot of moolah. and it would reinforce sales of all other Apple iOS products too. you won't buy just one Apple gizmo, you'll buy several 'cause they all work together so nice.

Apple never has tried to compete in the general market with its monitors price. you buy them because they are so pretty. the profit margain must be ridiculous, even at small production levels. but the Apple video hardware technology is there and ready. add a tuner, some ports, and stick an ATV chip inside, and bingo!

Apple should buy Bose for the audio part, another high-end brand. remember when Apple put out its own branded powered speakers 6 or 7 years ago? they were lousey - one of Apple's total flops.
post #60 of 83
Personally I think they've missed the boat with this one, which is a shame because I've been wanting it even before it existed but they never made it quite good enough.

If they had riveled the Wii it could have become the family console but now any direction towards games would be a disaster. It would be the underpowered console with rubbish games, and if there was any sign game prices would go down to the level of iPhone games publishers would abandon it effectively killing it.

Then there was the fact they turned down the technology behind kinnect, that would have made the device the next magical product from Apple yet again redefining user experiance.

Now though its a low selling product and next year in the uk youview comes out supported by all our major tv networks and will kill off any hopes Apple may have of iptv.
post #61 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

true, it would be a high end product. but 5%-10% of a $100 billion annual market is still a lot of moolah. and it would reinforce sales of all other Apple iOS products too. you won't buy just one Apple gizmo, you'll buy several 'cause they all work together so nice.

Apple never has tried to compete in the general market with its monitors price. you buy them because they are so pretty. the profit margain must be ridiculous, even at small production levels. but the Apple video hardware technology is there and ready. add a tuner, some ports, and stick an ATV chip inside, and bingo!

Apple should buy Bose for the audio part, another high-end brand. remember when Apple put out its own branded powered speakers 6 or 7 years ago? they were lousey - one of Apple's total flops.

I agree in a few years I think you will see an actual Apple tv. Its not a huge profit area like there other products but there going to be forced by the market to do it. Googles already launched there tv software, and Microsoft and Adobe and both know to be building versions of Silverlight and flash for tvs. Apple have to get involved otherwise iTunes for tv is effectively dead. Plus they have to expand somehow and what other electronic consumer products are left.
post #62 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Due to the low cost, I went ahead and asked for one from Santa I still don't see why they don't include a blu-ray/dvd/cd player and internal storage. I suppose it's price point. But they could offer an "AppleTVPlus" or something for $299. With a blu-ray player and storage, that would be a steal, and I think doable for them at that price point. The last hurdle is DVR, but that is much tougher as Steve has said (due to the cable industry's business model).

Apple has a plan, and it is to provide and inexpensive interface between your other "Apple" devices and your TV. I think they realized that people really just want something to get their media on to the TV because they already have all the other things.

I bought an Apple TV a few days after it was released because we were renovating the bedroom and buying a our first flat panel (a Vizio Razor LED 37 inch) to hang on the wall. I have not really used the Apple TV all that much, but my wife LOVES IT! Seriously, she loves the darn thing! She is very smart, but it is simple to use and she can watch her video podcasts in the bedroom while getting ready in the morning. On Thanksgiving morning we had breakfast in bed, and watched Toy Story 3 streamed wirelessly from the iMac downstairs. I should add that I have Wireless G and not N, and that the iMac is the first of the 17 inch Core Duo (not even core 2), and it was flawless. This is what the Apple TV is all about.

I have already ripped all of my old VHS tapes to M4V (using the BlackMagic video converter) and will start with the DVD's next (using the Elgato Turbo 264). The BlackMagic works with PPC, but the Elgato requires Intel.

The idea that I can select any DVD to watch on my TV or iPad means a lot more to me in terms of usability.
post #63 of 83
Are the same people that bitch about the lack of an xMac and how it sucks to have a monitor built into the PC the same ones who keep saying how a single TV unit with all your HEC components built in would be a viable product for Apple?
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post #64 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

so you're saying that the tens of millions who own consoles don't really want them? they want the crappy games in the app store that get old after a day instead of Call of Duty Black Ops that just hit a billion $$$ in sales in a few months?

iOS games are nice but no life in them

yeah, hard core gamers and familes with kids/teens will still want their consoles and use them. but they're an optional add-on (until Sony gets smart and sticks the PS3 chip/BD player inside its HDTV's too). adults' home lives don't revolve around those consoles. many do however revolve around their TV.

notwithstanding virtual reality, there is no "life" in any game. go to FaceBook for that! (just kidding)
post #65 of 83
I wonder why people think you have to have one or the other?

I have an Apple TV plugged into my TV alongside a DVD player (can't be bothered upgrading to Blue Ray, it doesn't get used enough except for plugging in USB thumbdrives), and a STB with DVR (which I only use for FTA and have never played back anything I recorded on it).

There seems to be this strange notion that if you buy something then you immediately have to unplug everything else and stow it away in the garage or something along side the VCR's and casette decks.

Apple TV is a part of the TV viewing experience that you make for yourself depending on your tastes and interests.
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post #66 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

yeah, hard core gamers and familes with kids/teens will still want their consoles and use them. but they're an optional add-on (until Sony gets smart and sticks the PS3 chip/BD player inside its HDTV's too). adults' home lives don't revolve around those consoles. many do however revolve around their TV.

notwithstanding virtual reality, there is no "life" in any game. go to FaceBook for that! (just kidding)

As a parent with teenage kids, the X-box and Playstation 3 I bought for the living room disappeared into the kid's bedrooms, never to be seen again, although the stream of other kids wandering from the front door into said bedrooms leads me to believe that they are being put to good use, I've seen glimpses of Black Ops as I pass and it looks pretty good, too bad I don't have the time to get into it.
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post #67 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

As a parent with teenage kids, the X-box and Playstation 3 I bought for the living room disappeared into the kid's bedrooms, never to be seen again, although the stream of other kids wandering from the front door into said bedrooms leads me to believe that they are being put to good use, I've seen glimpses of Black Ops as I pass and it looks pretty good, too bad I don't have the time to get into it.

yeah, i can't get into war and gore, but really enjoy Burnout Paradise! (the iPad lite version, Hot Pursuit, is a very very pale spin off. except for two person races.)
post #68 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

so you're saying that the tens of millions who own consoles don't really want them? they want the crappy games in the app store that get old after a day instead of Call of Duty Black Ops that just hit a billion $$$ in sales in a few months?

iOS games are nice but no life in them

Yeah! Call of Duty Black Ops, $1 billion in sales already. The Modern Warfare 2 surpassed $1 billion too. Incredible games. But Solitaire on the iPod is nice too.
post #69 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

I wonder why people think you have to have one or the other?

I have an Apple TV plugged into my TV alongside a DVD player (can't be bothered upgrading to Blue Ray, it doesn't get used enough except for plugging in USB thumbdrives), and a STB with DVR (which I only use for FTA and have never played back anything I recorded on it).

There seems to be this strange notion that if you buy something then you immediately have to unplug everything else and stow it away in the garage or something along side the VCR's and casette decks.

Apple TV is a part of the TV viewing experience that you make for yourself depending on your tastes and interests.

I totally agree. I have AppleTV and Blu-ray. I don't understand why some people say one means the other will be dead. I own disc, they aren't going anywhere no matter how successful streaming is. And streaming isn't killing disc purchases, rentals (Netflix) are. Blu-ray makers are adding streaming support for one reason, to sell more boxes. Even AppleTV added Netflix streaming to sell more boxes.
post #70 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

And just exactly why would any Blu-Ray player have streaming as well as optical disc playback? Because the manufacturers know that Blu-Ray is just an interim step toward that "streaming-only age." They're hedging their bets. Future-proofing a product that consumers resisted by adding forward-looking technology to it. Think of Apple TV as not being burdened with the backward compatibility problem of supporting DVDs and Blu-Ray discs.

Streaming is hardly forward looking technology. It has been around for a while. AppleTV added Netflix streaming it helps sell note boxes. And backward compatibility is nit a burden, it is a feature.
post #71 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by pt123 View Post

Streaming is hardly forward looking technology. It has been around for a while. AppleTV added Netflix streaming it helps sell note boxes. And backward compatibility is nit a burden, it is a feature.

A technology having been around doesnt mean its not forward-looking. As its been pointed out ad nauseam streaming of media will get faster, include more media from more sources and encompass more devices that all interact with other in some fashion. This is where the development and innovation is heading. If you look at what Apple is doing with AirPlay, what the carriers are doing with LTE and HSPA+, and what even cheap HEC equipment is trying to do by including streaming capabilities youll see this true.
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post #72 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by lantzn View Post


I just bought a ATV2 and am thinking about hacking the ATV into a mini Mac to see what it can do.

Sounds neat, how would you do that? ATV1 or 2?
post #73 of 83
My company is giving me one for the extra work I put in a month ago. I'm excited to get one. We have a Wii in our upstairs media room that has Netflix on it. The AppleTV will go nice on our downstairs entertainment center.

I do expect Apple to extend the App store to the AppleTV. They need more content providers too. Hulu Plus, the Safari browser to get to the other networks for free, and games would be on my list of things to make the AppleTV perfect.
post #74 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

A technology having been around doesnt mean its not forward-looking. As its been pointed out ad nauseam streaming of media will get faster, include more media from more sources and encompass more devices that all interact with other in some fashion. This is where the development and innovation is heading. If you look at what Apple is doing with AirPlay, what the carriers are doing with LTE and HSPA+, and what even cheap HEC equipment is trying to do by including streaming capabilities youll see this true.

Well, then you could say companies are hedging their bets by adding forward looking technology like Blu-ray since more companies are selling and renting Blu-ray, and more titles are added as time goes by.
post #75 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

I wonder why people think you have to have one or the other?

I have an Apple TV plugged into my TV alongside a DVD player (can't be bothered upgrading to Blue Ray, it doesn't get used enough except for plugging in USB thumbdrives), and a STB with DVR (which I only use for FTA and have never played back anything I recorded on it).

There seems to be this strange notion that if you buy something then you immediately have to unplug everything else and stow it away in the garage or something along side the VCR's and casette decks.

Apple TV is a part of the TV viewing experience that you make for yourself depending on your tastes and interests.

well that really depends on how many ports your telly has and how many you've already used. Its also because people have to justify the price, at £99 its not exactly cheap compared to what else is out there.
post #76 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

no blu/DVD because they set up all that download stuff and see that and streaming as the future. They tried the whole storage thing and it didn't sell plus DVR etc would require licensing of tech.

How did they try "the whole storage thing?" Not with this product.

Quote:

Despite what mr Wu says, one million units of this 'toy' in a quarter is still impressive. Especially if it continues at even half that rate. The point of this item is to push Apple's rentals etc. If they can show volume then they can get more networks on board push for a lower price or even a subscription of some kind (say like a season rental pass for $15 for SD instead of the $22 it would cost you one by one). Showing usage might also convince the nets to loosen up the rental restrictions. And who knows perhaps this would help them get their heads out of their butts and start crediting show buy back with proceeds from rentals and buys online rather than continuing to only look at the antiquated Nielsen system. Then fewer decent scripted shows would bite it two eps in.

The problem I have with that is it's antithetical to their stated iPod/iTunes strategy. They look at iTunes as a way to sell iPods. Are you saying it's the opposite for AppleTV? That seems odd to me.



Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr View Post

Apple's decisions - even the seemingly small ones - are not arbitrary. On the contrary, they are very deliberate, and can usually be seen to be consistent with an overall goal. Steve likes consistency and focused goals.

When did anyone claim their decisions were arbitrary? You sound an awful lot like the "Shut Up, Apple Knows What It's Doing" crowd.

Quote:

There is a ton of evidence which suggests that one of Apple's goals is to kill off physical media and move entirely to digital distribution of all content. (Movies, music, software, etc.) Putting any type of disk reader on the Apple TV would not be inline with that goal. Not going to happen.

Thompson

I agree there is a lot of evidence. However, as I've stated twice now, that is the exact opposite of their stated iPod/iTunes strategy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gcom006 View Post

Meanwhile, Blu-Ray players going for around the same price as Apple TV with similar internet capabilities in addition to backwards compatibility are really still doing quite okay...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_techne...lu-ray-players

Blu-Ray is an outstanding transition format. It covers DVD's of yesterday, Blu-Rays of today and streaming of tomorrow. It covers a lot of bases and truly offers the best audio and video experience of any format out there right now. It won't be going away anytime soon. Blu-Ray is a bona fide hit among consumers, being adopted at a rate faster than DVD players were ever adopted. Netflix is a huge part of that, again, for discs that work today and streaming for tomorrow.

Not so bad for a "bag of hurt..."

I still think Blu-Ray is a great product that only stands to gain more ground now that pricing has truly come down to consumer-friendly levels. Apparently I'm not the only one.

http://broadcastengineering.com/hdtv...ext-year-0720/

Get back to me when Apple TV hits 10% of those numbers. Until then, Apple's VERY smart to keep it a hobby.

Agreed. Two more points:

1. Blu-Ray still offers the best picture and sound quality available.
2. Many items are not offered on iTunes at all. Many.



Quote:
Originally Posted by pcworth@charter.net View Post

Apple has a plan, and it is to provide and inexpensive interface between your other "Apple" devices and your TV. I think they realized that people really just want something to get their media on to the TV because they already have all the other things.

That is what I'm saying. It depends on what it wants AppleTV to be. I think it go further and even start replacing all of the "other things." But, the price then goes up. It depends on what their goals are. I'm really fine with whatever way they decide to go. I just think it would be great to have an Apple STB that is has DVR, Blu-Ray and Streaming. That would mean all I'd need is a high def signal.

Quote:
I bought an Apple TV a few days after it was released because we were renovating the bedroom and buying a our first flat panel (a Vizio Razor LED 37 inch) to hang on the wall. I have not really used the Apple TV all that much, but my wife LOVES IT! Seriously, she loves the darn thing! She is very smart, but it is simple to use and she can watch her video podcasts in the bedroom while getting ready in the morning. On Thanksgiving morning we had breakfast in bed, and watched Toy Story 3 streamed wirelessly from the iMac downstairs. I should add that I have Wireless G and not N, and that the iMac is the first of the 17 inch Core Duo (not even core 2), and it was flawless. This is what the Apple TV is all about.

I have already ripped all of my old VHS tapes to M4V (using the BlackMagic video converter) and will start with the DVD's next (using the Elgato Turbo 264). The BlackMagic works with PPC, but the Elgato requires Intel.

The idea that I can select any DVD to watch on my TV or iPad means a lot more to me in terms of usability.

But that's the problem. Most people don't want to spend hours ripping their DVD content or their Blu-Ray content. In my case, I don't have a desktop, which means I'd have to fire up the laptop next to me in order to stream. It doens't have a Blu-Ray drive, so I'd need an external drive. And I'd still have to spend the time doing it. I've ripped DVDs before, and it's a time consuming process even on a fast machine. It would be a lot easier to either store or play said discs on an AppleTV. At least for most people.
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post #77 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I am still not convinced of the accuracy of the analysis in that article. Does not make sense to me.

I have not rented anything from iTunes with my aTV but have watched several Netflix titles and they stream immediately. Bears mentioning that I use my office's DNS servers on my home network, not my cable provider's DNS. Either way I don't see how Google or OpenDNS should affect Akami's proxy or load balancing configuration. It appears that Akami uses only their own DNS not remotely cached zone transfers.

Because Akamai is doing more than load balancing and proxying. That's a common misunderstanding.
Think of Akamai as an internet worm hole. It uses the location of your DNS server along with its elaborate routing tables to determine which portal to send the data to. Using your local DNS server results in a drop-off near you here in the Milky Way. If you use Google or Open DNS (fine services thought they are), you're quite possibly telling Akamai to drop it off in Andromeda.

In any event, all I know is that the moment I went from OpenDNS back to my (yecchh) Comcast DNS servers, download times went from 30 hours to a few minutes.
Pretty empirical evidence to me.
(And yes, I had the same issue with Apple TV 1 downloading quickly, and Apple TV2 being slow. That just indicates to me that Apple has baked in Akamai intelligence to the device.)
post #78 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

And just exactly why would any Blu-Ray player have streaming as well as optical disc playback? Because the manufacturers know that Blu-Ray is just an interim step toward that "streaming-only age." They're hedging their bets. Future-proofing a product that consumers resisted by adding forward-looking technology to it. Think of Apple TV as not being burdened with the backward compatibility problem of supporting DVDs and Blu-Ray discs.


"The market" consists of average TV viewers. And a large portion of them never learned to set the time on their VCRs. The very mention of "outputting files" makes them cringe. Simple is better in the home entertainment market. Apple has moved Apple TV past the bleeding-edge early-adopter fringe to the mainstream. (And as we'll see very soon, Google TV will suffer in part because Google didn't move beyond that techno-fringe market, but that's a whole different "bag of hurt" than Blu-Ray.)


What you're saying is that Apple TV isn't conventional enough to appeal to the mass market. I disagree. I think simpler is better, and Apple TV certainly is simple. When Apple brings the simplicity of iOS apps, especially games, to Apple TV, it will really take off.

After all, that's one reason why Apple went to the trouble of replacing the old Apple TV's Mac-based hardware and software complexity with iOS device simplicity, no? So it can run iOS apps. That's Apple TV's true killer feature, and it's sold well despite not having it yet.

1st paragraph: Obviously. You act as if this is a bad thing? As if they know they're screwed? Hardly. Blu-Ray is still the highest quality media format out there today and it will be the strongest for a good 5 more years at least. Maybe even longer if the countless interests can't find a common interest to sort out the ever-problematic licensing war. People still own too many DVD's. And at the same time, people love Netflix. A box that does all is going to smoke a box that does one thing ahead of it's time until, well, it's time actually arrives. It's still too early.

And burden? Please. As a consumer, I love avoiding the burden of having to use separate boxes for streaming and optical discs. I now have one player that does it all sans cable TV.

And hell, the one nice idea behind Google TV was that Sony Blu-Ray that would've even solved that issue. Too bad Google can't create a market-ready product to save their lives.

2nd paragraph: The market most interested in streaming technology in a box like Apple TV is video/technophiles. They get it, know how it all works and they're anxious to use this technology. Unfortunately, they don't take Apple TV seriously because it compromises the user experience by being limited to 720P and non-HD sound. They want it all, and sadly, it would've been easy for Apple to make this happen. If you can't get the hardcores excited about a product, you're not likely to have a hit on your hands. In the HEC market, you need to get the techies first and the consumers will follow.

Google TV is failing because the interface sucks, the content providers are blocking everything and it requires updates immediately that take forever to download. People are returning them before they even use them. It has nothing to do with focusing on the techno-fringe. That's Apple fanboy malarky. What the hell do you think an Apple fanboy is for that matter??? It all boils down to the fact that it's just a very poorly executed product; wholly unrefined. Oh yeah, and they're idiots for not working more with content providers long before launch. "See very soon?" No, it's already happening. Can't say it enough: Google is a joke of a company.

3rd paragraph: Until Apple actually unleashes the ability to use apps on the Apple TV, it's a moot point discussing it as a killer feature. Consumers know Apple TV exists. They're not oblivious. 99% of them would rather have a Blu-Ray player though right now. That's not going to change real soon, and even apps might not change that if it came down to one or the other. The streaming-only age is absolutely coming, and I personally can't wait, but it's absolutely not even close to arriving yet.

What you need to consider is that simple is better, and in saying that, are you aware of how many consumers have no idea what wi-fi actually is let alone whether or not they have it? But does every consumer and their mother and their grandmother know how to put a disc in a tray and press play? Yep. No iTunes accounts, Netflix accounts, etc...disc. Tray. Play. That's why Blu-Ray players are such a great transition product. They cover every base, and that "burden" you refer to is going to be the thing that allows streaming to eventually become mainstream. Apple TV's eventual success will piggyback off of On-Demand cable boxes and Blu-Ray players with streaming capabilities. That's where the market on whole is learning what streaming is all about.
post #79 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Because Akamai is doing more than load balancing and proxying. That's a common misunderstanding.
Think of Akamai as an internet worm hole. It uses the location of your DNS server along with its elaborate routing tables to determine which portal to send the data to.

Please explain in technical terms how Akami can detect which DNS server other than their own can be identified in a request. It appears as if you are definitively saying that Akami allows zone transfers to other cacheing DNS servers. I cannot verify that and as far as I can see is appears that they do not allow it, at least according to their DNS dig info.

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post #80 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

It may not have anything to do with iTunes or the AppleTV. Others have pointed out the whole DNS issue. But there is also the question of your ISP throttling large downloads. Some of them are doing it under the assumption that you are doing bit torrents etc. The notion that it could be a totally legal download escaped their brains when they set up their computers to jack speeds down on you.

Thanks, gave that a shot. Get way further in the movie now, to 16 minutes in before it locks. And locks hard, no previews, no accessing the store.

Brought up a speed test just after the crash, internet is fine, so thinking a Apple TV or streaming server issue.

I can report that customer service at Apple was great when I contacted them, they put the movie back in my queue.
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