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Apple TV challenge from Google falls flat in 2010

post #1 of 136
Thread Starter 
Logitech has reportedly halted shipments of its Revue Google TV boxes through January while waiting for Google to update its software on the poorly selling units.

According to a report by DigiTimes, Logitech's supplier, Gigabyte Technology, is reportedly noting a hit on its revenues from the suspension. The report also stated that Taiwanese component suppliers anticipate Google to release its forthcoming update to the Android OS in late February or March "at the earliest," allowing suppliers to resume shipments at some point after that.

Within two months of its launch, Sony slashed the price of its own Google TV product, signaling that sales were not going as well as expected amid less than charitable reviews. Last week, Google was reported to be telling its other licensees not to show their existing Google TV-based set top boxes and televisions at next month's CES.

The delay was intended to let Google "refine the software, which has received a lukewarm reception," according to a report by the New York Times. The Android-based Google TV was unveiled in May and launched in early October on devices from Sony and Logitech. Other licensees, including Toshiba, LG and Sharp, were planning to release Google TV products at CES, including televisions incorporating the software. The report noted that Google's "late request caught some of the manufacturers off guard."

Google's track record in delivering new software products has been less than stellar, with 2009's big announcement of Wave being abandoned in a year, the expected release of Chrome OS being delayed an entire year, a focus on Flash playback on Android delivering poor results, Twitter-competitor Google Buzz failing to find lots of interest alongside the company's Knol Wikipedia-killer, and big news concerning the company's rival VP8-based WebM video codec petering out as H.264 continued to gain major traction.

The Google TV initiative ran into trouble with broadcasters before even launching, and many have subsequently blocked the boxes from displaying their content aimed at web users, one of the primary features Google TV was intended to deliver.

Jobs on Google TV

Creating a set top box is not easy, Apple's Steve Jobs has acknowledged, long calling his own company's Apple TV a hobby rather than a major business. In June, Jobs said in an interview that the cable operators "give everybody a step top box for free, or for $10 per month. That pretty much squashes any opportunity for innovation, because nobody's willing to buy a set top box."

Jobs took a shot at Google's recently unveiled TV ambitions, saying "Ask Tivo, ask Replay TV, ask Roku, ask Vudu, ask us ask Google in a few months.

"The only way that's ever going to change," Jobs said, "is if you can really go back to square one, tear up the set top box, redesign it from scratch with a consistent UI across all these different functions, and get it to consumers in a way that they're willing to pay for it. And right now there's no way to do that."

Jobs later launched a new version of Apple TV based on iOS, and offered the new device for just $99. The new version has proven to be far more popular, selling around a million devices in less than a quarter and earning positive reviews, including placement in Time magazine's top ten gadgets of the year.

The new box skirts around the "go to market" problem Jobs outlined for general purpose, TV-centric devices like Microsoft's Windows Media Center and Google TV, which both aim to provide DVR playback of live TV, programming listings, and similar features that compete with cable boxes. Apple TV targets movie rentals and playback of other iTunes content, with the newly released ability to stream pictures, TV, movies and music from mobile devices including the iPhone and iPad.
post #2 of 136
I cancelled my cable service and now use Netflix, Hulu Plus, and AppleTV exclusively. In doing so, I'm saving about $80 monthly.

I don't know about Google's latest offering, but the new AppleTV is awesome - especially with AirPlay.
post #3 of 136
OK Apple People, lets not gloat yet...

Lets tweak that headline for this time in 2008

Quote:
Apple iPhone challenge from Google falls flat in 2008

Don't write off a Google product at 1.0.
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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post #4 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post


Don't write off a Google product at 1.0.

I wrote off the Nexus One a long time ago.
post #5 of 136
I received a free Google Logitech Revue as a developer, I'm just starting to use it.
While I agree that it is not perfect and there is room for improvement, I really believe that it has a great potential.
Also, I don't subscribe to cable and I think more and more people do the same. So the argument that cable set boxes are free or cheap isn't really going to work in the longterm.

It might too early, but I think both Google and Apple are right to invest in this industry.
post #6 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

I cancelled my cable service and now use Netflix, Hulu Plus, and AppleTV exclusively. In doing so, I'm saving about $80 monthly.

I don't know about Google's latest offering, but the new AppleTV is awesome - especially with AirPlay.

I did the same thing, however I have found some serious flaws with the AppleTV. I am sure if it was made by anyone else other than Apple it would have also fallen flat.

1) Lack of TV shows to rent.
2) Can't stream divx/xvid from PC.
3) Rented movies download slow.
4) No Hulu Plus!

I bought the AppleTV on launch day like I did the iPad.

I also have the Sony Media Player and it does all for only $20 more, plus AmazonVOD has a ton of content.
post #7 of 136
Aw, but I love the Kevin Bacon playing a creepy Kevin Bacon fan commercial. But, then again, I'm the kind of guy that slows way down to check out car wrecks.
post #8 of 136
Does anyone else find it funny that when Gollum was on the Apple board they announced all these great things that Google thought of first and in no way copied from Apple because that would be wrong.

Lets see:

The iPhone clone - nexus/G1/any other android phone
iOS - Android
Macbook clone - That new netbook they DOA'd, G48 or something like that.
Apple TV - Google TV
Safari - Chrome browser (as in both based on webkit)

It just seems that they somehow managed to get hold of all these products (just to name the obvious), when Schmidt was on the board.

As soon as he left they kept going but its like they were not 100% sure what they were doing and just made bad clones.

Unfortunately for everyone else the Google can afford to pay huge money on a device and then watch it fail and move on.

Then the community of Google Fans get together and do all the hard work for them by fixing the OS or other instabilities because either its not Apple, its "open" or because they just love Google etc

I know this post will get torn to shreds and thats understandable.

But keep this in mind,

When was the last time you saw a Google product that
a) wasn't bought from a 3rd party
b) Some other company like Apple hadn't created and created well first.
or
c) Wasn't poorly built/beta and then allowed the community to do their own repairs?

I wonder if Google will ever build a car?

"The NEW Google car...

.....the community does all the hard work and we take the credit"
post #9 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by -AG- View Post


I wonder if Google will ever build a car?

Google is actually building a car, one of those self-driving one.
post #10 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoismoses View Post

I did the same thing, however I have found some serious flaws with the AppleTV. I am sure if it was made by anyone else other than Apple it would have also fallen flat.

1) Lack of TV shows to rent.
2) Can't stream divx/xvid from PC.
3) Rented movies download slow.
4) No Hulu Plus!

I bought the AppleTV on launch day like I did the iPad.

I also have the Sony Media Player and it does all for only $20 more, plus AmazonVOD has a ton of content.

Does anyone known if Mad Men Season 4 is available for rent on Apple TV?
post #11 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash View Post

Does anyone known if Mad Men Season 4 is available for rent on Apple TV?

Would you be a Mad Man if I tell you it's not available?
post #12 of 136
right now ATV2 is a great little inexpensive media extender for households already using iTunes/iOS products (and third party accessories for them). that's a solid foundation, but Apple needs to build on it a lot in 2011 to stay competitive. there are many good ideas out there for expanding ATV2's capabilities. we know its iOS can do a lot more. i hope Apple announces something in January.

all the other extenders/streamers require consumers to mix-and-match hardware of different brands to get it all to work. Sony comes closest to unified hardware, but has no iTunes equivalent (i see they are going to launch their own store next year). DLNA, the one universal standard, is ok, but it's no AirPlay.

the notion that the web and "cloud" will somehow make all these hardware related considerations unnecessary is wishful thinking. you still have to get it all organized somehow, whatever media you got or want, local or cloud, via some piece of hardware in your house. and a big screen TV will never be the right tool for that.

that's why Google TV is the wrong direction. it doesn't make this all simpler, it actually adds more complexity to whatever you already have. i already have five gizmos that run Netflix - ATV, PS3, TiVo, iPad, and my Mac (it's my hobby). i need another?

simplification and integration is the key.
post #13 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash View Post

Does anyone known if Mad Men Season 4 is available for rent on Apple TV?

Not for rent, but the iTunes Store has Season 4 for purchase - $29.99 for HD and $19.99 in standard def. Individual HD episodes can be purchased at $2.99 apiece. Download to your computer and play with your ATV.

Netflix doesn't have any Mad Men seasons or episodes for streaming, but you can order up the first three seasons by mail in standard or Blu-ray if you have an account.

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I admit to being a Fanatical Moderate. I Disdain the Inane. Vyizderzominymororzizazizdenderizorziz?

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post #14 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by -AG- View Post

When was the last time you saw a Google product that
a) wasn't bought from a 3rd party
b) Some other company like Apple hadn't created and created well first.
or
c) Wasn't poorly built/beta and then allowed the community to do their own repairs?

If only we could bring back Microsoft Bob, I'm sure everything would be alright.

Too bad there's no "Dinner & A Movie" services to the home...

Apple should buy Netflix and give away an DVR-based Apple TV with a 2-year subscription.

Later, Google will buy Blockbuster and with a 1-year subscription, give away a Google TV that has 2TB of cloud storage.

HoHoHo!
Hot tub blonde, pouring champagne: "Say when..." Dangerfield: "Right after this drink."
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post #15 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by nasht View Post

Google is actually building a car, one of those self-driving one.

There's a name for the initial occupants ... crash test dummies.

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post #16 of 136
a great internet search engine. Does anyone have a better one? Apple?
post #17 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary54 View Post

a great internet search engine. Does anyone have a better one? Apple?

Good come back, but I think his implication was besides their core product.
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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post #18 of 136
App store access, games etc, Apps like VLC and custom Apps from TV networks and Google TV will become a hobby for geeks.

Maybe Google is expecting something like this along with iPad update announcements shortly after CES.
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post #19 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoismoses View Post

3) Rented movies download slow.

Word is this happens if you're using a name server other than your ISP's (such as Google or OpenDNS) because Akamai can no longer route you to the optimal download paths.
post #20 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by nasht View Post

Google is actually building a car, one of those self-driving one.

No, they are paying to get their name on someone else's invention. Prey it does not use Android...
post #21 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoismoses View Post

I also have the Sony Media Player and it does all for only $20 more, plus AmazonVOD has a ton of content.

Really? The Sony Media Player can stream audio and video content from my iTunes library using three different methods: The device interface, the iTunes interface or using an iOS device as a fully functional GUI remote? It can also stream from my iOS devices too?

Or are you LYING!?
post #22 of 136
Nothing wrong with Apple TV that a tuner & DVR wouldnt fix. Till then, its just to me.
post #23 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by -AG- View Post

Does anyone else find it funny that when Gollum was on the Apple board they announced all these great things that Google thought of first and in no way copied from Apple because that would be wrong.

Lets see:

The iPhone clone - nexus/G1/any other android phone
iOS - Android
Macbook clone - That new netbook they DOA'd, G48 or something like that.
Apple TV - Google TV
Safari - Chrome browser (as in both based on webkit)

It just seems that they somehow managed to get hold of all these products (just to name the obvious), when Schmidt was on the board.

Maybe we should not mention Chrome because Apple copied Netscape, Microsoft, Firefox.
post #24 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibitzer View Post


Netflix doesn't have any Mad Men seasons or episodes for streaming, but you can order up the first three seasons by mail in standard or Blu-ray if you have an account.

Streamed three seasons of Man Men on Netflix in Canada. At 7.99 a month, I'm finding the service a great value as I like old movies. (using Apple TV)
post #25 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by pt123 View Post

Maybe we should not mention Chrome because Apple copied Netscape, Microsoft, Firefox.

Well, Netscape was around before I.E. And Firefox is the evolution of Netscape, so you should really say Netscape/Firefox.

Then again, HyperCard was around before Netscape.
post #26 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Really? The Sony Media Player can stream audio and video content from my iTunes library using three different methods: The device interface, the iTunes interface or using an iOS device as a fully functional GUI remote? It can also stream from my iOS devices too?

Or are you LYING!?

Ok, the Sony player cannot do airplay or directly access iTunes.

Things it can do that AppleTV cannot.

1) Consume DNLA media from a PC
2) Hulu Plus
3) AmazonVOD
4) Play video/audio from a USB drive
5) Several other Internet channels (not going to list them)

Also, if you use a DNLA server that can transcode media it will play your iTunes library.

It also does have an iPhone app remote as well as Android and BlackBerry.
post #27 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booga View Post

Word is this happens if you're using a name server other than your ISP's (such as Google or OpenDNS) because Akamai can no longer route you to the optimal download paths.

You are correct, however my other media players have no problem streaming from AmazonVOD using OpenDNS.
post #28 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Hawkeye_ View Post

Well, Netscape was around before I.E. And Firefox is the evolution of Netscape, so you should really say Netscape/Firefox.

Then again, HyperCard was around before Netscape.

Netscape huh, I was using CompuServe .....then I downloaded Netscape to my Mac II using my trusty 1440 modem
took half the night, kept getting up to see if it finished....wow thought I landed on the moon when it did never went back to sleep. This tech is so much fun......... Just think I could be reading a book right now.
post #29 of 136
One thing I cannot believe hasn't been covered in the media is Apple's pricing game. If you have both a 1st and 2nd gen ATV, browse through the movies and TV shows. Compare the prices for the same titles. The 2nd gen ATV charges more than the same content on the 1st gen. And it's sometimes by an order of magnitude of around 1.5x the price.

I've always liked my ATV (I have two 1st gens and one 2nd gen). The software on the 2nd gen still needs some adjustments, as the UI is focused on the content from the cloud and gives second hand treatment to your personal iTunes library. But AIrPlay more than offsets these irritations.

What is silly are those who still claim the ATV needs DVR functionality? Why? It's a streaming device from content providers, and is intended to give you VOD but from their whole library - not just a library that you've decided to generate on an interim basis with a DVR.

As for the poster who mentioned slow download speeds, that has not been my experience at all. We rent a movie and within 20-30 seconds it's ready to start watching. And we're in Australia.
post #30 of 136
I will be the first to admit everything apple is not perfect but at least it is original and not following everyone else. Apples apps and then everyone else starts up apps and the blackberry commercial not apps but superapps. It just seems everyone else is following apple instead of coming up with some original idea on their own. Stop bashing until you come up with something original.
post #31 of 136
I don't know. But I kind of think the AppleTV 2 is really just a Trojan Horse from Apple.

Sure it probably does a lot of the stuff that some users might want it to do. But evrybody really want more NEW content. Even Jobs mentioned that that would be a hard nut to crack, for all the other guys, for them, and soon for Google's box. Which is exactly what is happening now.

There is no getting around that. The Networks are not dumb. They know what happened to the Music Labels. They will fight with all their might to keep things as they have been.

Like I said, Jobs knew that these would be the case. Thats why the ATV seems to be pretty easy to
jailbreak, (something that the Government supposedly said was not illegal. Sure Apple's line will be
"That is not what we intended for the ATV".

So somehow, content will start appearing on the box. The Carriers will cry to Apple the same way the Labels did.

Apple's answer will be the same. "You have to make your content available to the public. If not they will continue to get it for free. You have to let them buy what they want. No one can control the Internet".

It will all sound very familiar. The old Trojan Horse trick always works (since way back Troy days).
post #32 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by focher View Post

What is silly are those who still claim the ATV needs DVR functionality? Why? It's a streaming device from content providers, and is intended to give you VOD but from their whole library - not just a library that you've decided to generate on an interim basis with a DVR.

As for the poster who mentioned slow download speeds, that has not been my experience at all. We rent a movie and within 20-30 seconds it's ready to start watching. And we're in Australia.

I agree DVR functionality is not required, I want to replace cable not augment it.

As for the slow download speeds, there are thousands of views of the thread covering it. I can't be the only one...
post #33 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoismoses View Post

As for the slow download speeds, there are thousands of views of the thread covering it. I can't be the only one...

You may not be the only one, but that doesn't make it a common issue. I'm in Japan accessing the US iTunes store and all of my streams have been pretty close to instant on the aTV 2.0 through Wifi-N with the router on the second floor.

Edit: I'm pretty surprised at what I can do through wifi without any streaming issues. All of my movie files are on the time-machine connected wifi to my macbook and then backup wifi, then down to the aTV. I've done 720P and 1080P (obviously the aTV down converts it) without issue.
post #34 of 136
Easy one here

$99 > $300

Plus Google knows bupkiss about designing interfaces that people actually want to pay for. They were well beyond their competency in trying to sell a box to play media and it shows in the miserable sales.
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post #35 of 136
Instead of sadly trying to copy Apple at every turn, Google should be focusing on the key source of competition that could kill it: Facebook. If I was on their Board, that's what I would be telling them.

At this point, they seem to be flailing about like a strategically clueless organization, throwing just about everything at the wall, and hoping that something sticks.
post #36 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by psedog View Post

You may not be the only one, but that doesn't make it a common issue. I'm in Japan accessing the US iTunes store and all of my streams have been pretty close to instant on the aTV 2.0 through Wifi-N with the router on the second floor.

Edit: I'm pretty surprised at what I can do through wifi without any streaming issues. All of my movie files are on the time-machine connected wifi to my macbook and then backup wifi, then down to the aTV. I've done 720P and 1080P (obviously the aTV down converts it) without issue.

Up until a couple of months ago, my ATV downloads would occasional slow to a crawl (hours to download a tv show).

I talked to my internet provider (I'm in Canada by the way, but use the US iTunes store), and talked to Apple support.

My ISP said that, as far as they could tell, it was not a problem on their end. The Apple guy I talked to via email said that Apple was aware of the problem, asked me a ton of questions, and then said that they were working on it.

Since then, I have found that I get about 10Mb/s consistently.

I thought that maybe the NC server farm was up and running. I'm sorry to hear that the problem is still persisting for some.
post #37 of 136
Google fu**** up. They thought they were going to be able to distribute the content of the tv networks as they saw fit and they were shut down!!!
It ain't Google's content!!!!!
The internet tv is bullsh**! We are on the internet all effing day with our smart phones, laptops, netbooks whatever. So why the hell do I need to surf the net while watching tv? It is dumb!!! But that is what Google is counting on so you and I will just, like tards, skim through the internet on our tv while being bombarded with effing advertisements. That to me is a dystopian lifestyle and I'm not having it.
post #38 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Hawkeye_ View Post

Well, Netscape was around before I.E. And Firefox is the evolution of Netscape, so you should really say Netscape/Firefox.

Then again, HyperCard was around before Netscape.

Then again the first web browser was built on Job's NEXT tech with no small amount of support from the mothership.

Google is playing tech poker against the guy who took down Microsoft after they double-crossed him. Betting on Google to out-Microsoft Apple is a very silly wager. Its been less than two years and the cracks are already starting to appear.

Also don't forget to add to the Google rip-off list:

AdMob - iAd

They really thought that buy swooping in and gobbling up AdMob, that they would be able to rule mobile advertising. Apple played them for chumps by publically advertising their interest in AdMob, while the real sights were on Quattro. Google panicked and rushed to buy the less desirable company, vastly over-payed for a company who's sole asset was embedded in iPhone apps. Apple then turns around and quickly grabs the larger, more rounded Quattro for a comparative bargain. Google fails on their rip of the App Store, then Apple launches their iAd service for iOS developers and even despite launch glitches, gobbles up AdMod market and clients. Now they are neck and neck, with AdMob losing momentum and failing to even pay off Google's investment. Simply put - Eric Schmidt is an idiot when it comes to tech, his only real talent is selling Google site visitor data to marketers and advertisers... and that wasn't even his idea either.

Google's essentially a website, and only 6 little characters away from irrelevance at anytime.
post #39 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by nasht View Post

I received a free Google Logitech Revue as a developer, I'm just starting to use it.
While I agree that it is not perfect and there is room for improvement, I really believe that it has a great potential.
Also, I don't subscribe to cable and I think more and more people do the same. So the argument that cable set boxes are free or cheap isn't really going to work in the longterm.

It might too early, but I think both Google and Apple are right to invest in this industry.

Those people not subscribing to Cable, overwhelmingly subscribe to DirecTV or DISH Network.
post #40 of 136
Hi Kasper.

If you keep banning IP addresses, you will begin to ban some of the most popular Starbuck's locations in a major Northeast city.

Just so you know.

And BTW, IP addresses are in infinite supply to me, so banning IPs does exactly nothing bad for me.




If you'd like, we can agree to just get along.
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