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Apple TV challenge from Google falls flat in 2010 - Page 3

post #81 of 136
12/26/10 at 8:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

"App" is short for "application". Apps are as old as computing devices.

Clearly he was talking about smartphone apps, so a semantic argument misses the mark entirely.
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post #82 of 136
12/26/10 at 10:11am

deleted


Edited by MacRulez - 5/4/12 at 1:12pm
"Surely it is possible to love Apple products and still respect what others have achieved?" - Stelligent
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"Surely it is possible to love Apple products and still respect what others have achieved?" - Stelligent
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post #83 of 136
12/26/10 at 10:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

OK Apple People, lets not gloat yet...

Lets tweak that headline for this time in 2008



Don't write off a Google product at 1.0.

You mean like Wave, Orkut or Buzz?
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post #84 of 136
12/26/10 at 10:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

You're willing to go on record here as believing that the iPhone was the first phone to have apps?

An unexpected bravery....

You know, you're just making yourself look foolish and ignorant. No rational, honest, intelligent person disputes the fact that Apple totally revolutionized the smartphone landscape, and that a big part of that was by revolutionizing the number and scope of apps available to users, as well as their distribution.
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post #85 of 136
12/26/10 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Yikes. I don't think you've ever used iTunes. No way.

You are right, I don't, but my parents do, and Safari popped up on the desktop, even though I've told it no every time.

You are forced to upgrade itunes if you want to upgrade your i device.

Perhaps it isn't "slow", but compared to everything else on that computer, it is slow as hell.
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post #86 of 136
12/26/10 at 11:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyepad View Post

I want to know how people "save" money with this set up.
Maybe I am missing something, but cable in my area is around $80-$99 a month for all the channels and an HD DVR.
I watch TV for 2-4 hours each night after work. If I were to rent 1/2Hr. sit-com shows, say 3-4 a night, I would be spending $3-$4 a day for 30 days, that's $90-$120 a month, and that is without watching a single movie. Add in a Netflix acct for an additional $8 a month and now we are near $100-$130 a month.
Maybe if you hardly watch TV, you could save, but maybe someone can explain how this set up "saves" anything at all? Comcast in my area will give you a HD DVR, 10+MBs cable internet and a phone for $99 a month. (I don't even count the phone, its useless since I have a cell phone)
I see this as a money sink. You can't even DVR it and watch it again later.

Another part that sucks, I can't even put my own DVD movies (that I Paid for) into iTunes so I can stream those thru Apple TV. I can understand copyrights not wanting me sharing or copying the dvd, but if I own it, I should be allowed to add it to my computer for personal viewing.

It's easy to cut that cable bill. In my off time this summer I tried a little experiment to see how long I could go without cable or to determine how little I needed it. I went a 5 week span watching a total of ten hours of cable. I relied heavily on Netflix for daily streaming of older shows I never got around to watching and ordering the blurays of newer shows. I did torrent a few shows but that was pretty much my television viewing. I found that most of the stuff I watched on TV was junk and now live without it. I haven't cut cable as I signed a contract two years ago but as soon as my contract is up it's a wrap.

As far as streaming DVDs, I just used handbrake to rip them and add them to iTunes. I don't even like using physical media anymore. It's far too inconvenient.
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post #87 of 136
12/26/10 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Fred 1 View Post

Netscape huh, I was using CompuServe .....then I downloaded Netscape to my Mac II using my trusty 1440 modem
took half the night, kept getting up to see if it finished....wow thought I landed on the moon when it did never went back to sleep. This tech is so much fun......... Just think I could be reading a book right now.

Netscape, huh, I remember using eWorld on my Performa and trying to use this program called Mosaic, but couldn't find much to look at and went back to gopher.
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post #88 of 136
12/26/10 at 11:42am
Got an Apple TV for my elderly parents for Christmas.

Plugged it in. Connected an HDMI cable. Automatically discovered WiFi. Told me to turn on home sharing in iTunes. Did that. All music photos and videos on my Dad's Mini now available for family to enjoy on the big screen or stereo speakers. Netflix streaming available after entering email and password.

My Dad can access all content with ease, internet and locally, and he's no tech guy. They couldn't be more delighted. The family sat around looking at pictures of ourselves as babies while the Apple TV gave us the Ken Burns slide show and classical music played (both easily toggled in preferences).

These are the people that tech assholes despise as being "stupid" for not being willing to hack their devices or jump through "easy" hoops to set up the system. This is the actual utility that I'm suppose to despise Apple for providing, because they've "dumbed down" things in a manner that insults the sensibilities of puffed up little geeks.

Fuck the rule of smug IT jerkoffs. There are millions and millions of people that not only don't have the faintest idea what's going on with this shit, they really don't want to have to learn. And they're not all "old people", and they certainly aren't stupid or clueless. They just have better things to do with their time than make a hobby out of their enabling devices.

I just couldn't have more contempt for the blithering gear heads that imagine their interests are actually qualities of character, and that to fail to share their interests betrays some kind of failing. They would gladly deny people like my parents the opportunity to enjoy a little tech magic in their lives.

And Google is their king, which is why Google may have some real problems when it comes to selling anything but services and phones-- and they only got phones right because they purchased an up and running turn key operation. Google TV is the perfect expression of a geek driven, engineering first company. Yes, it does a great deal more than the Apple TV, but what use is that if accessing that additional functionality is a headache inducing pain in the ass?

And don't tell me it's not, that it's easy, that anyone with half a wit about them could master it with no problem, because that's a fucking lie endlessly repeated by assholes that think what they know are the only things worth knowing.

Google, in effect, hates my parents or anyone that doesn't have real enthusiasm for their "smart" way of doing things, because such people are superfluous in the world they envision. Apple does not hate my parents, and does not seek to isolate and shame the non-enthusiast. It's that simple.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #89 of 136
12/26/10 at 11:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoismoses View Post

I did the same thing, however I have found some serious flaws with the AppleTV. I am sure if it was made by anyone else other than Apple it would have also fallen flat.

1) Lack of TV shows to rent.
2) Can't stream divx/xvid from PC.
3) Rented movies download slow.
4) No Hulu Plus!

I bought the AppleTV on launch day like I did the iPad.

I also have the Sony Media Player and it does all for only $20 more, plus AmazonVOD has a ton of content.

1 -Plenty of TV shows, but I agree the networks need to step up.
2 - There are some ways around this now with airplay
3 - HD Movies start playing in under 45 seconds 100% of the time for me. Get some real Internet
4 - I imagine this is coming soon.
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post #90 of 136
12/26/10 at 12:22pm
@addabox - Great points, but just wish you'd tone down the language a bit. The cussing doesn't help your cause.

I admit to being a Fanatical Moderate. I Disdain the Inane. Vyizderzominymororzizazizdenderizorziz?

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I admit to being a Fanatical Moderate. I Disdain the Inane. Vyizderzominymororzizazizdenderizorziz?

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post #91 of 136
12/26/10 at 12:32pm
addabox, then there are those people who don't like the fact that Steve Jobs can be such a douche bag. Telling people "You're holding it wrong" or flat out denying issues exists for months isn't what I expect from a company who sells "premium" products.

There was no good reason provided to shut out Google Voice from the iphone, and their reply of "We are studying it" is complete crap, as it was already approved, then took 18 months for them to put it back in. So I don't like being held hostage to that sort of indecisiveness.

But that's my own personal opinion. I also think a device that cannot display 1080p is quite outdated in my opinion too.

Oh, and btw, who setup his wifi access point and all that itunes/atv for them? Sounds like you did.
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post #92 of 136
12/26/10 at 12:36pm

deleted


Edited by MacRulez - 5/4/12 at 1:12pm
"Surely it is possible to love Apple products and still respect what others have achieved?" - Stelligent
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"Surely it is possible to love Apple products and still respect what others have achieved?" - Stelligent
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post #93 of 136
12/26/10 at 1:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibitzer View Post

@addabox - Great points, but just wish you'd tone down the language a bit. The cussing doesn't help your cause.

Actually, I don't think it would have been possible for him to fully express his feelings on this issue without the "cussing", making it entirely appropriate.
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post #94 of 136
12/26/10 at 1:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Got an Apple TV for my elderly parents for Christmas.

Plugged it in. Connected an HDMI cable. Automatically discovered WiFi. Told me to turn on home sharing in iTunes. Did that. All music photos and videos on my Dad's Mini now available for family to enjoy on the big screen or stereo speakers. Netflix streaming available after entering email and password.

My Dad can access all content with ease, internet and locally, and he's no tech guy. They couldn't be more delighted. The family sat around looking at pictures of ourselves as babies while the Apple TV gave us the Ken Burns slide show and classical music played (both easily toggled in preferences).

These are the people that tech assholes despise as being "stupid" for not being willing to hack their devices or jump through "easy" hoops to set up the system. This is the actual utility that I'm suppose to despise Apple for providing, because they've "dumbed down" things in a manner that insults the sensibilities of puffed up little geeks.

Fuck the rule of smug IT jerkoffs. There are millions and millions of people that not only don't have the faintest idea what's going on with this shit, they really don't want to have to learn. And they're not all "old people", and they certainly aren't stupid or clueless. They just have better things to do with their time than make a hobby out of their enabling devices.

I just couldn't have more contempt for the blithering gear heads that imagine their interests are actually qualities of character, and that to fail to share their interests betrays some kind of failing. They would gladly deny people like my parents the opportunity to enjoy a little tech magic in their lives.

And Google is their king, which is why Google may have some real problems when it comes to selling anything but services and phones-- and they only got phones right because they purchased an up and running turn key operation. Google TV is the perfect expression of a geek driven, engineering first company. Yes, it does a great deal more than the Apple TV, but what use is that if accessing that additional functionality is a headache inducing pain in the ass?

And don't tell me it's not, that it's easy, that anyone with half a wit about them could master it with no problem, because that's a fucking lie endlessly repeated by assholes that think what they know are the only things worth knowing.

Google, in effect, hates my parents or anyone that doesn't have real enthusiasm for their "smart" way of doing things, because such people are superfluous in the world they envision. Apple does not hate my parents, and does not seek to isolate and shame the non-enthusiast. It's that simple.

+++ QFT

You just described about 95% of the people. They could care less about how technology works (Cars; TVs; Phones, etc.). They just want benefit with no fuss!

A single mom with 3 teen-age kids; elderly parents (who've forgotten more than we'll ever know) A dad working two jobs; those kids, themselves -- sometimes, for relaxation, they just want to sit back and be entertained -- to watch without participating (or thinking about how it works).

It's not that these people can't figure out the technical details, they just don't want to -- they have better thugs to do with their time!
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #95 of 136
12/26/10 at 1:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

addabox, then there are those people who don't like the fact that Steve Jobs can be such a douche bag. Telling people "You're holding it wrong" ...

The people who think SJ is a "douche bag" are exactly the people he's talking about. And, BTW, SJ never said the words you've attributed to him as a quote.
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post #96 of 136
12/26/10 at 1:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

In the confines of this forum, you're absolutely correct.

Uh, no, you definitely need to get out of your bubble a little more often.
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post #97 of 136
12/26/10 at 1:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

The people who think SJ is a "douche bag" are exactly the people he's talking about. And, BTW, SJ never said the words you've attributed to him as a quote.

Right. I'm sure all those people who were pissed that their time machine crapped out at 18 months with no acknowledgment, or those with flickering displays, were SJ haters.

Sure the images could have been faked, but OK, he said "Just avoid holding it that way."

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/24/a...re-holding-th/

Whether or not the issue is real isn't the problem; its how they addressed it. Oh, OK, he did allow people to return the phone or get free bumpers. What a guy.
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post #98 of 136
12/26/10 at 1:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

+++ QFT

You just described about 95% of the people. They could care less about how technology works (Cars; TVs; Phones, etc.). They just want benefit with no fuss!

A single mom with 3 teen-age kids; elderly parents (who've forgotten more than we'll ever know) A dad working two jobs; those kids, themselves -- sometimes, for relaxation, they just want to sit back and be entertained -- to watch without participating (or thinking about how it works).

It's not that these people can't figure out the technical details, they just don't want to -- they have better thugs to do with their time!

Are these the same people who have no patience to RTFM and then complain when something doesn't work then return the product back to the store? Happens to not be just for electronics either.

I mean, even I had to read the only manual available on the ipod touch to figure out how to properly use mobile safari.
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post #99 of 136
12/26/10 at 1:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

Right. I'm sure all those people who were pissed that their time machine crapped out at 18 months with no acknowledgment, or those with flickering displays, were SJ haters.

Sure the images could have been faked, but OK, he said "Just avoid holding it that way."

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/24/a...re-holding-th/

Whether or not the issue is real isn't the problem; its how they addressed it. Oh, OK, he did allow people to return the phone or get free bumpers. What a guy.

Guess what, most people never think about SJ, one way or the other. It's the people addabox was talking about who seem to have the obsessive hatred of him that you do. Most likely because they feel their sense of self-worth is threatened in some way.
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post #100 of 136
12/26/10 at 1:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Guess what, most people never think about SJ, one way or the other. It's the people addabox was talking about who seem to have the obsessive hatred of him that you do. Most likely because they feel their sense of self-worth is threatened in some way.

When you claim "It just works" and it doesn't, you bring that "hate" on yourself.

Apple is just another company making money, lots of it for that matter. And all the shit they did in 2009 that I mentioned did NOT have to happen.

And if it is true, I'm sure those 95% of people mentioned don't care if the white button doesn't perfectly match the white phone.

Oh, I guess you didn't reply back about the link. Nailed you.
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post #101 of 136
12/26/10 at 1:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

... Oh, I guess you didn't reply back about the link. Nailed you.

Well, when even you think the images could have been faked, what's to reply to?
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post #102 of 136
12/26/10 at 2:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

Are these the same people who have no patience to RTFM and then complain when something doesn't work then return the product back to the store? Happens to not be just for electronics either.

I mean, even I had to read the only manual available on the ipod touch to figure out how to properly use mobile safari.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

When you claim "It just works" and it doesn't, you bring that "hate" on yourself.

Apple is just another company making money, lots of it for that matter. And all the shit they did in 2009 that I mentioned did NOT have to happen.

And if it is true, I'm sure those 95% of people mentioned don't care if the white button doesn't perfectly match the white phone.

Oh, I guess you didn't reply back about the link. Nailed you.

I think if you look at all the complexity in our lives, including TVs, Toasters, Cars, etc. Apple does one of the best jobs of making the benefits of technology available to all/any/average users.

By all/any/average users, I mean the bulk of the users who do not care about technology.

Apple often advertises (promises) the benefits of technology without the hassle -- "There is no step 3"; "It just works", etc.

Mostly, and for most people, Apple keeps these promises. Not always, as you and others point out -- but mostly.

At least Apple tries!

That's why Apple repeatedly tops user satisfaction ratings -- yes, there are exceptions -- but they are just that -- exceptions to the rule.

You seem to be particularly down on iTunes for Windows.

Is there another single app for Windows that allows users to buy content/apps, backup/synch that content to iDevices (that seem to be quite popular among Windows users), stream among computers and your TV?

If so, what is it? How much does it cost? When will a cross-platform (OS X) version be available?

You can sit back and post that iTunes is shit (or somesuch). But compared to what?

Like the song from Utah Phillips: "My God! That's Moose Turd Pie! ... It's Good, Though!"

http://www.lyricszoo.com/utah-phillips/moose-turd-pie/

Apple sets out to sell attractive, reliable, appealing and usable products to as many users as possible at the highest profits possible.

Mostly, they succeed in this, because they focus on the user.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #103 of 136
12/26/10 at 2:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, when even you think the images could have been faked, what's to reply to?

Yeah, well since no one including you can verify that, it stands.
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post #104 of 136
12/26/10 at 2:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Is there another single app for Windows that allows users to buy content/apps, backup/synch that content to iDevices (that seem to be quite popular among Windows users), stream among computers and your TV?

I agree with that. But, that point above is because Apple doesn't allow any thing else. They could make it better but they won't, seeing as how it still isn't a Cocoa app, and on Windows isn't running on its native environment.

If you have an xbox, streaming is easy. I wont' comment on Win7 sharing because I don't use it, nor do I see a point in it. But that's just me.
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post #105 of 136
12/26/10 at 3:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

Yeah, well since no one including you can verify that, it stands.

Oh, is that how it works?
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post #106 of 136
12/26/10 at 3:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

I agree with that. But, that point above is because Apple doesn't allow any thing else. They could make it better but they won't, seeing as how it still isn't a Cocoa app, and on Windows isn't running on its native environment.

If you have an xbox, streaming is easy. I wont' comment on Win7 sharing because I don't use it, nor do I see a point in it. But that's just me.

I want to show you something about the iTunes/iPad/iPhone/AppleTV ecosystem -- that may help demonstrate how non-techies can benefit from technology without really understanding it.


First: This is the Home screen on my iPad: Notice the icon for the Remote App (2nd row, 2nd column):

I tap the Remote icon.




After tapping the Remote icon the Remote app main screen displays all the destinations available for streaming content.

I tap the AppleTV icon.




The Remote screen now shows all the streaming sources available (Computers running iTunes with Shared Library). Any of these iTunes shares can be constrained with what is sharable with optional password.

I didn't do anything special on any of the computers or the AppleTV -- they use Bonjour to broadcast their availability for streaming.

I tap the Media-Library





The Remote screen now displays all the categories/playlists of content within the selected Media-Library source.

I tapped the Movies menu item, displaying all the movies available (over 700).

I tapped the "A Christmas Story" icon -- love Jean Shepherd!




Next, the Remote display shows that "A Christmas Story" is streaming from the Media-Library to the AppleTV.

I can scrub through the movie, pause/play, etc.






That's it! In 4 simple steps I have connected a streaming source with a streaming destination, selected what to stream and started streaming.


The iPad's job is finished -- I can turn it off. Or, if I like I can surf the web on the iPad's screen while the Movie is playing, uninterrupted, on the TV.

At, any time I can resume the suspended Remote app and:

-- fiddle with the streaming connection above, e.g. scrub the movie.
-- or start another source-destination streaming to another AppleTV or another computer.


This is so easy that everyone in our household (ages 10, 11, 14, 45 71) can do it!



On Christmas Day, we set the AppleTV as the destination for streaming -- a playlist of about 100 audio files and a few Music Videos on the Media-Library.

The AppleTV has a Screen Saver that was set to display photos streamed from the Media-Library computer (thousands of photos) -- we selected a playlist of photos for several Christmases past and everything since 2007 (we even added some new photos as we took them).

So, while the audio played, the HDTV displayed a slide show of personal photos. Whenever a different song played, a small "cover" and the info for that song overlaid the bottom left of the TV.

When a music video played, the slideshow paused, while the video played, then resumed afterwards,
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #107 of 136
12/26/10 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Got an Apple TV for my elderly parents for Christmas.

Plugged it in. Connected an HDMI cable. Automatically discovered WiFi. Told me to turn on home sharing in iTunes. Did that. All music photos and videos on my Dad's Mini now available for family to enjoy on the big screen or stereo speakers. Netflix streaming available after entering email and password.

My Dad can access all content with ease, internet and locally, and he's no tech guy. They couldn't be more delighted. The family sat around looking at pictures of ourselves as babies while the Apple TV gave us the Ken Burns slide show and classical music played (both easily toggled in preferences).

These are the people that tech assholes despise as being "stupid" for not being willing to hack their devices or jump through "easy" hoops to set up the system. This is the actual utility that I'm suppose to despise Apple for providing, because they've "dumbed down" things in a manner that insults the sensibilities of puffed up little geeks.

Fuck the rule of smug IT jerkoffs. There are millions and millions of people that not only don't have the faintest idea what's going on with this shit, they really don't want to have to learn. And they're not all "old people", and they certainly aren't stupid or clueless. They just have better things to do with their time than make a hobby out of their enabling devices.

I just couldn't have more contempt for the blithering gear heads that imagine their interests are actually qualities of character, and that to fail to share their interests betrays some kind of failing. They would gladly deny people like my parents the opportunity to enjoy a little tech magic in their lives.

And Google is their king, which is why Google may have some real problems when it comes to selling anything but services and phones-- and they only got phones right because they purchased an up and running turn key operation. Google TV is the perfect expression of a geek driven, engineering first company. Yes, it does a great deal more than the Apple TV, but what use is that if accessing that additional functionality is a headache inducing pain in the ass?

And don't tell me it's not, that it's easy, that anyone with half a wit about them could master it with no problem, because that's a fucking lie endlessly repeated by assholes that think what they know are the only things worth knowing.

Google, in effect, hates my parents or anyone that doesn't have real enthusiasm for their "smart" way of doing things, because such people are superfluous in the world they envision. Apple does not hate my parents, and does not seek to isolate and shame the non-enthusiast. It's that simple.

Give this poster a prize for the best post of the year. I have been in IT for over 20 years - starting out on Burroughs mini B930 with removable disk packs, reel to reel tapes for backing up VAX box's etc etc - I've done real geeky tech since I was 10 years old in 1980 and I got my TI-99/4A for Christmas.

When you are a tech geek it becomes impossible to think outside the box and appreciate just how sh*t some of the so called solutions are for normal non techie customers (am sure we all spend a large proportion of out time sorting it out for them!).

Apple are the only players in town when it comes to having an entire ecosystem that makes it relatively easy for non tech people to access technology - everyone else is clutching at straws doing the bare minimum in order to shift boxes.
Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equpped with 18,000 vaccuum tubes and weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vaccuum tubes and perhaps weigh 1.5 tons.
by Popular Mechanics
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Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equpped with 18,000 vaccuum tubes and weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vaccuum tubes and perhaps weigh 1.5 tons.
by Popular Mechanics
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post #108 of 136
12/26/10 at 4:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markm49uk View Post

Give this poster a prize for the best post of the year. I have been in IT for over 20 years - starting out on Burroughs mini B930 with removable disk packs, reel to reel tapes for backing up VAX box's etc etc - I've done real geeky tech since I was 10 years old in 1980 and I got my TI-99/4A for Christmas.

When you are a tech geek it becomes impossible to think outside the box and appreciate just how sh*t some of the so called solutions are for normal non techie customers (am sure we all spend a large proportion of out time sorting it out for them!).

Apple are the only players in town when it comes to having an entire ecosystem that makes it relatively easy for non tech people to access technology - everyone else is clutching at straws doing the bare minimum in order to shift boxes.

I've been a software engineer for 20 years too. I started out on with Unisys mainframes, then (and current) AS/400's, and then PC systems of all kinds. I believe tech-geeks can coexists in both the hardcore-tech world and that of the average joe-consumer. I believe I coexist quite well in both. I became fed-up with the "techie" way of doing business and after seeing the way many tech's tend to over-complicate simplicity to justify their field-of-business, I came across Apple's way to simplifying the PC-ecosystem to almost that of a toaster. It was a long-needed relief.

Critics and ranters in this forum are simply validating the reasons why Apple works the way they do. Apple sees that 95% of the population do not care about how something works. They simply want it to work. This simplicity just irks the critics.

Of course, Apple is not perfect, and that is where their first-place customer-service comes in. They will have bumps in the road. What company doesn't? But they are always first to step up to the plate and resolve things. They have certainly proved time-and-time again that they will normally go WAY beyond what any other tech company would do to keep people happy.

Ranters will always rant, and folks like me (us) will always sit back and laugh at how they are validating everyone's opinion of them. They simply don't get it, or don't want to get it.
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post #109 of 136
12/26/10 at 4:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I want to show you something about the iTunes/iPad/iPhone/AppleTV ecosystem -- that may help demonstrate how non-techies can benefit from technology without really understanding it.

Did I ever say it wasn't easy? However, you have to use only 720p files with the MP of h.264, not really an obscure format but it doesn't play all the media I have. I would have to downsize or convert to their supported formats, which I do not want to do.

This is a personal gripe, not with Apple, but with this tech in general. You can to sync the media to the ipad, then stream it, or you can stream it from a computer, or you can stream it directly without an iTV, or...

I can use my blu ray player, a computer running any OS with XBMC or Boxee or even running them natively, a phone, a tablet, a PMP, a media player box like from Western Digital or from 10 different other people, or from the tv itself.

A full blown computer is the only solution that does everything I want it to do. And seeing how today's TVs work with HDMI, it isn't hard at all to plug one in. A laptop would be my second choice.

This isn't anyone's fault nor will anyone have an official solution to it for the foreseeable future.
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post #110 of 136
12/26/10 at 5:10pm
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Originally Posted by whoismoses View Post

I did the same thing, however I have found some serious flaws with the AppleTV. I am sure if it was made by anyone else other than Apple it would have also fallen flat.

1) Lack of TV shows to rent.
2) Can't stream divx/xvid from PC.
3) Rented movies download slow.
4) No Hulu Plus!

I bought the AppleTV on launch day like I did the iPad.

I also have the Sony Media Player and it does all for only $20 more, plus AmazonVOD has a ton of content.

If you're experiencing slow downloads, make sure you're not using the Google DNS. If you are, that's probably the problem... http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...oogle_dns.html
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post #111 of 136
12/26/10 at 5:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

Did I ever say it wasn't easy? However, you have to use only 720p files with the MP of h.264, not really an obscure format but it doesn't play all the media I have. I would have to downsize or convert to their supported formats, which I do not want to do.

First: Because of bandwidth requirements, it currently isn't practical to stream greater than 720P.

Second: There are media server apps that run on the Mac (and, I suspect, similar apps on Windows and Linux) that will transcode content on the fly as it is being served to the AppleTV or a computer running uTunes. This even includes the capability to transcode and stream a DVD, on the fly, without ripping it.

Third: There are other older formats: cassette tapes; records- 33, 45 and 78 RPMs; reel-to-reel tapes; wire; VHS tapes -- to name a few. I have some of these that contain content available nowhere else. These need to be converted before that can be played/streamed on any of the current electronics. There is a cost in quality, $ and time to make this conversion.

Forth: Hopefully, some companies or individuals are working on the next great [totaly incompatible] media format -- 3d holograms or whatever.

My point is that the issue you raise: "it doesn't play all the media I have", likely, will always be true -- unless you standardize on what's available now and don't embrace any newer or older technology.

Quote:
This is a personal gripe, not with Apple, but with this tech in general. You can to sync the media to the ipad, then stream it, or you can stream it from a computer, or you can stream it directly without an iTV, or...

I can use my blu ray player, a computer running any OS with XBMC or Boxee or even running them natively, a phone, a tablet, a PMP, a media player box like from Western Digital or from 10 different other people, or from the tv itself.

A full blown computer is the only solution that does everything I want it to do. And seeing how today's TVs work with HDMI, it isn't hard at all to plug one in. A laptop would be my second choice.

This isn't anyone's fault nor will anyone have an official solution to it for the foreseeable future.

A full-blown computer is not a robust enough solution for everything I want to do with media.

But it can do much of what I want to do -- letting me focus on other solutions for the rest.

By the same reasoning, iTunes/iDevices/AppleTV allows me to do much of what I want to do with my digital media.

Somethings you learn as you get older:
-- never be satisfied with good enough -- it really isn't!
-- the best solution will not completely satisfy you -- it never will!
-- understand the difference and exploit it as best you can.

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #112 of 136
12/26/10 at 5:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I want to show you something about the iTunes/iPad/iPhone/AppleTV ecosystem -- that may help demonstrate how non-techies can benefit from technology without really understanding it.

[...]

This is so easy that everyone in our household (ages 10, 11, 14, 45 71) can do it!



On Christmas Day, we set the AppleTV as the destination for streaming -- a playlist of about 100 audio files and a few Music Videos on the Media-Library.

The AppleTV has a Screen Saver that was set to display photos streamed from the Media-Library computer (thousands of photos) -- we selected a playlist of photos for several Christmases past and everything since 2007 (we even added some new photos as we took them).

So, while the audio played, the HDTV displayed a slide show of personal photos. Whenever a different song played, a small "cover" and the info for that song overlaid the bottom left of the TV.

When a music video played, the slideshow paused, while the video played, then resumed afterwards,

Set up two different AirPort Express this weekend. One to be used as regular router and print server, while the other to be used as wireless extender. I knew it was going to be easy, but it much more intuitive than I expected. Pretty impressed with them.

Also set up AppleTV which would have been smoother if I had known you need an iTS account for Home Sharing, and that you cant set it up on iTS without a CC or PayPal is the username was already created. I minor hiccup for those services, but non for the AppleTV.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #113 of 136
12/26/10 at 5:53pm
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Originally Posted by clintonf View Post

If you're experiencing slow downloads, make sure you're not using the Google DNS. If you are, that's probably the problem... http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...oogle_dns.html

That issue has been debunked to shreds on the forum.

Besides what percentage of Apple users switch their DNS, let alone know what it even does?
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post #114 of 136
12/26/10 at 6:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

First: Because of bandwidth requirements, it currently isn't practical to stream greater than 720P.

A full-blown computer is not a robust enough solution for everything I want to do with media.

But it can do much of what I want to do -- letting me focus on other solutions for the rest.

Well, actually, bandwidth isn't an issue, since Anandtech actually tested somehow higher bandwidth files on the Atv and it worked. Besides, with even wifi at the G level providing around 12mbps of actual throughput, that isn't it either. I have a 1080p file here and it has a 6.5mpbs video stream plus 640kbps audio.

Well for those other formats you mentioned, why stream them around the house anyhow? No, that's a personal opinion, going back to how I view the situation. I find streaming stuff with various pieces of equipment rather stupid. If I want my audio playing in the other room, I just pull out my mp3 player and hook it up to the receiver with a $5 cable.

Other than that, all the stuff you mentioned I can go along with.
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post #115 of 136
12/26/10 at 6:50pm
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Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

That issue has been debunked to shreds on the forum.

Only if you ignore the posts that debunked the debunking.

Quote:
Besides what percentage of Apple users switch their DNS, let alone know what it even does?

Ah, the arrogance. As opposed to users on what platforms? (Since you single out "Apple users".)

However, apparently a fair number, which really shouldn't be surprising since there have been a number of articles in the mainstream press in the recent past about using global DNS providers like Google and OpenDNS. For example, David Pogue did an article recently in the NY Times extolling the "virtues" of using such DNS providers vs. one's ISP's DNS.
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post #116 of 136
12/26/10 at 7:32pm
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Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Only if you ignore the posts that debunked the debunking.

Seeing as how no one on that thread brought up or understands something called load balancing...

Anyhow, ping google.com. I got yi-in-f106.1e100.net (74.125.159.106). I'm using OpenDNS. The article you mentioned got 74.125.53.100, and it would seem that is was using OpenDNS too. Try it yourself and see if you get the same thing.

Quote:
Ah, the arrogance. As opposed to users on what platforms? (Since you single out "Apple users".)

However, apparently a fair number, which really shouldn't be surprising since there have been a number of articles in the mainstream press in the recent past about using global DNS providers like Google and OpenDNS. For example, David Pogue did an article recently in the NY Times extolling the "virtues" of using such DNS providers vs. one's ISP's DNS.

Uh, you all mentioned that 95% of people don't care how technology works, they just want it to, and that's why so many people like Apple products, sooo....
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post #117 of 136
12/26/10 at 8:22pm
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Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

addabox, then there are those people who don't like the fact that Steve Jobs can be such a douche bag. Telling people "You're holding it wrong" or flat out denying issues exists for months isn't what I expect from a company who sells "premium" products.

Most of the people I know don't really know or care what Steve Jobs says. They don't know or care about most of the "issues" that get hyped up on line regarding Apple. They don't know or care about "Antennagate."

They do know and care about the equipment they own of which they use about 10% of the "features" that they vaguely know exist. The equipment on which they're terrified of touching much more than the on and off buttons, for fear of "messing something up." They aren't stupid-- the consumer electronics they use have absolutely terrible UIs. Shockingly, inexcusably bad.

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There was no good reason provided to shut out Google Voice from the iphone, and their reply of "We are studying it" is complete crap, as it was already approved, then took 18 months for them to put it back in. So I don't like being held hostage to that sort of indecisiveness.

So what? Again, most people have no idea any of this went down. It's insider baseball. The people I know with Android phones use them for 4 things: phone, browser, email and chat. The people I know with iPhones use them as multiple purpose portable computing devices. Because Apple builds in the one thing that everybody else thinks isn't necessary: trust. Trust that you won't disable your device because you tried something without knowing exactly what you were doing. Trust that you won't look stupid because you just wanted to change settings and ended up in some UI cul-de-sac and had to ask your kid or a friend or, god forbid, call some gruesomely unresponsive tech support.

Everybody knows the deal. They have to suffer along, eking out some little bit of functionality and never straying outside a well-worn bit of habitual practice for fear of breaking it. And they have to agree that it's their fault, that they're "just not good with that stuff" or a little bit "stupid" when it comes to machines. And all the while they're being obliged to use absolute crap. Junk. UI and hardware conventions that no sane person would agree to, if they had a chance to vote.

If Apple can give them the sense that they can actually use their devices, do you really think it matters what the internet thinks of Jobs' personality?

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But that's my own personal opinion. I also think a device that cannot display 1080p is quite outdated in my opinion too.

You're entitled to your opinion, but not only do most people not care, they'd be hard pressed to spot the difference.

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Oh, and btw, who setup his wifi access point and all that itunes/atv for them? Sounds like you did.

I did it because it was a Christmas present and I wanted it up and running for Christmas morning. However, "setting up WiFi" was a matter of turning it on, and turning on Home Sharing was a matter of toggling a single item called "Home Sharing" in the iTunes side bar. I'm pretty sure my Dad could have handled it. He certainly has no trouble using Netflix streaming and accessing the files on his computer. Everybody likes to hate on iTunes, but making it a central portal for all this stuff enormously simplifies the process.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #118 of 136
12/26/10 at 8:46pm

deleted


Edited by MacRulez - 5/4/12 at 1:12pm
"Surely it is possible to love Apple products and still respect what others have achieved?" - Stelligent
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"Surely it is possible to love Apple products and still respect what others have achieved?" - Stelligent
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post #119 of 136
12/26/10 at 9:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Most of the people I know don't really know or care what Steve Jobs says. They don't know or care about most of the "issues" that get hyped up on line regarding Apple. They don't know or care about "Antennagate."

They don't? Well, I guess no one understood the joke that MadTV did making fun of Jobs' persona on stage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgZKjJt-TkU

Quote:
They do know and care about the equipment they own of which they use about 10% of the "features" that they vaguely know exist. The equipment on which they're terrified of touching much more than the on and off buttons, for fear of "messing something up." They aren't stupid-- the consumer electronics they use have absolutely terrible UIs. Shockingly, inexcusably bad.

Right, they aren't stupid. They aren't mechanically inclined nor can they think critically. But I wonder if that has more to do with a lack of patience and hard work or a willingness to learn new stuff vs. they just flat out can't. It isn't like this generation of children who grew up on computers have issues with them.

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So what? Again, most people have no idea any of this went down. It's insider baseball. The people I know with Android phones use them for 4 things: phone, browser, email and chat. The people I know with iPhones use them as multiple purpose portable computing devices. Because Apple builds in the one thing that everybody else thinks isn't necessary: trust. Trust that you won't disable your device because you tried something without knowing exactly what you were doing. Trust that you won't look stupid because you just wanted to change settings and ended up in some UI cul-de-sac and had to ask your kid or a friend or, god forbid, call some gruesomely unresponsive tech support.

So how does Apple earn my trust when they decide to remove apps from their store on a whim, without any credible explanation? Why should I trust that in the future they wouldn't take one of my apps right off the phone, since they and others can?

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Everybody knows the deal. They have to suffer along, eking out some little bit of functionality and never straying outside a well-worn bit of habitual practice for fear of breaking it. And they have to agree that it's their fault, that they're "just not good with that stuff" or a little bit "stupid" when it comes to machines. And all the while they're being obliged to use absolute crap. Junk. UI and hardware conventions that no sane person would agree to, if they had a chance to vote.

Let's face it, back in high school, using Macs from the original to the GS, even apple had stupid crap of how to even eject a floppy disk. That's right, don't do it right, and you create a ghost of it on the desktop and in doing so piss off the desktop publishing teacher. Or when dragging stuff to the desktop from a media source, you only create shortcuts to it.

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If Apple can give them the sense that they can actually use their devices, do you really think it matters what the internet thinks of Jobs' personality?

For most, perhaps not. But come on, you can't expect that cult following that apple has isn't downright annoying?

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You're entitled to your opinion, but not only do most people not care, they'd be hard pressed to spot the difference.

So you rather have 720p material upscaled to a 1080p monitor, and deal with the artifacts it introduces? For me that's annoying. But with such a low standard that apple users have, ignorance is bliss huh? I bet they can't even see the difference btw SD tv and HD, or a 128kbps mp3 vs. a 256kbps. So all the power to you. For the rest of us who do, I guess there is everything else.

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I did it because it was a Christmas present and I wanted it up and running for Christmas morning. However, "setting up WiFi" was a matter of turning it on, and turning on Home Sharing was a matter of toggling a single item called "Home Sharing" in the iTunes side bar. I'm pretty sure my Dad could have handled it. He certainly has no trouble using Netflix streaming and accessing the files on his computer. Everybody likes to hate on iTunes, but making it a central portal for all this stuff enormously simplifies the process.

I didn't just ask about the ATV, but setting up the wifi network and computers.
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post #120 of 136
12/27/10 at 2:16am
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Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

... If you knew the breadth of my computing experience you'd not dare to present such a childish rant. ...

Let me guess, you've forgotten more than you ever knew?
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