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Apple sued over privacy rights in iPhone ads case

post #1 of 46
Thread Starter 
An iPhone user has sued Apple over advertisements appearing in mobile apps, following a report that outlined how mobile ads work.

The lawsuit, filed December 23, seeks to establish a class action status covering all iPhone users who have downloaded apps since December 2008, according to a report by Bloomberg.

The complaint appears to be patterned directly upon a Wall Street Journal report from the previous week, which highlighted mobile apps as using the same kind of anonymous user tracking that conventional web ad networks use to improve the relevance of display ads.

The report specifically cited Pandora as sending "age, gender, location and phone identifiers to various ad networks," while noting that the game Paper Toss "sent the phone's ID number to at least five ad companies." Both apps are named in the complaint, and their developers are listed as defendants along with Apple.

The complaint, prepared by attorneys Scott A. Kamber and Avi Kreitenberg of KamberLaw LLC in New York for Jonathan Lalo of Los Angeles, says Apple assigns iOS devices unique device identifiers that "can't be blocked by users," but says that "Apple claims it reviews all applications on its App Store and doesnt allow them to transmit user data without customer permission."

The lawsuit reportedly alleges that "the transmission of personal information is a violation of federal computer fraud and privacy laws," and suggests that "some apps are also selling additional information to ad networks, including users location, age, gender, income, ethnicity, sexual orientation and political views."

A similarly sensationalized report published by the LA Times in July resulted in a Congressional inquiry into Apple's policies regarding mobile ads after it suggested Apple was spying on users to track their "precise locations."

Privacy vs advertisers

Apple does allow users to opt out of sharing their location data with advertisers on its own iAd network, and has established a privacy policy that addresses what data apps can obtain, and for what purpose. However, it appears that Apple is allowing Google and other advertisers to act beyond its stated policies.

Apple was also taken to task for establishing privacy policies that competing ad networks deemed a threat to their revenues, which prompted the company to relax its privacy policy regarding third party ad networks in September. Some other mobile platforms have no stated privacy policies and perform no reviews of apps at all.

Outside of malware, apps typically only send general demographic information to help advertisers target their messages to specific audiences, but the implications of tying any data, even anonymously, to a user's hardware in a way that can't be blocked or removed by the user is an emerging controversial issue among privacy advocates.

Blocking all user data or making any such information illegal to send to ad networks would result in making mobile ads much less valuable to advertisers, erasing the ad-supported business model that props up some types of apps in the iOS App Store and the majority of apps in Google's Android Market.
post #2 of 46
Quote:
The complaint, prepared by attorneys Scott A. Kamber and Avi Kreitenberg of KamberLaw LLC in New York for Jonathan Lalo of Los Angeles, says Apple assigns iOS devices unique device identifiers that "can't be blocked by users," but says that "Apple claims it reviews all applications on its App Store and doesn’t allow them to transmit user data without customer permission."

Well.. the UDID is not a users data, it is a device ID and has nothing to do with the user. Apple in their documentations instruct developers not to permanently associate the UDID with the user.

Furthermore, Apple provided the user with the necessary controls to block any app from using location services. It is not their responsibility if the user voluntarily agreed to the developers terms and agreed to provide such information to them.
post #3 of 46
I realize this whole private data business is a slippery slope, and I don't know that I'd want it going past what it has already been.

But who freaking cares about your phone's ID number, age, location, etc? It's not like there are names, phone numbers, addresses, or anything of the sort being transmitted. It's all anonymous information used for advertising. Nothing more than ad agencies trying to reach their target market.

Personally, I couldn't care less. Maybe it's because I'm in marketing, so I completely understand the importance of reaching target audiences, but if none of the information is personally identifiable, I think anyone who is upset about this is being a baby and doesn't fully understand what's really going on here.

As I said, it's a slippery slope. But so far, nothing of much importance has been transmitted. Also, if I'm going to be shown ads (which I am), I'd much rather them be relevant to my life than completely random garbage.
post #4 of 46
What about Android?!?!
post #5 of 46
This is a class action lawsuit I would never join, especially as it does more harm than good.

I don't know all the specifics of this lawsuit, but if it could lead to irreparable harm to a company like Google, RIM or to a lesser extent Apple, in the mobile tech arena, then I want no part.
post #6 of 46
Half the apps would break without the phone's ID number. It is integral to how many apps work.
You HAVE to have a way to identify the uniqueness of a phone otherwise many apps would not be possible.

I'm already irritated by the popup which asks if I mind my location is to be sent, if this idiot succeeds it will mean even more alert boxes to wade through, destroying the app using experience.
post #7 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

Half the apps would break without the phone's ID number. It is integral to how many apps work.
You HAVE to have a way to identify the uniqueness of a phone otherwise many apps would not be possible.

I'm already irritated by the popup which asks if I mind my location is to be sent, if this idiot succeeds it will mean even more alert boxes to wade through, destroying the app using experience.

Half the apps? Can you please provide a few examples?
post #8 of 46
Downloading an App involves a conscious decision to do so, there are terms and conditions to be agreed to, it's written there when you install iTunes and is readily available under "View my Account" under "Store" in iTunes.

It is a voluntary action.

It's about time you Americans started awarding costs to the losing party in court cases, having the risk of paying Apple's legal expenses would stop a lot of these frivolous suits.
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post #9 of 46
A full-page iAd came up this morning advertising the Windows 7 Phone OS. Can't say AAPL isn't fair and balanced to advertisers, just not to your personal data.
post #10 of 46
The girls at the local gas station know what coffee I drink and make sure it's ready every morning..... The paper boy knows that I like the paper tucked into the storm door rather than laying on the porch..... my car moves the seat and steering wheel into MY position when I get in...

Everyone like to have things personalized to their needs. The AD companies are simply trying to do the same.

This is nothing more than another person looking for a short cut to a financial payout.

I'm with the other responder.... If you challenge and loose, you should pay.

Oh, and it's NOT the companies tracking my purchases that scare me.... it's the freaks that don't want ANYONE to know what they're up to that scare me..
post #11 of 46
If the App developers get enough money from the ads and give Apple a cut, Apple will ignore the privacy violations. Money is far more important than privacy.
post #12 of 46
What are the odds this guy has a Facebook account?
My Android phone is the worst phone I've ever owned.
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My Android phone is the worst phone I've ever owned.
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post #13 of 46
We have crossed the slippery slope point a long time ago. It is a little scary what marketers know about their targets. There are different things that people want to keep confidential... for very different reasons. There is no reason that something you pay "full price" on should spy on you for a service that you have no connection to. In that regard, I don't like Apple pushing ad sponsorship of apps.

...but, I do acknowledge the developer's right to profit from their efforts, and I appreciate free apps as a way to try something out without risk. It is just a shame you can't opt-out of advertising by paying for the software or service.
post #14 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

Half the apps? Can you please provide a few examples?

OK half is probably an exaggeration because the simple apps water down the stats. But it's probably near half of all 'serious' apps. It's useful during the registration process. Can help prevent the user from creating multiple accounts plus other stuff.
I can not give specific examples because I would be breaking my clients trust.
post #15 of 46
The next lawsuit against Apple will be a class action by developers for protecting the privacy of its users too much.

The fastest growing department at Apple has got to be its legal department.

Neal
post #16 of 46
post #17 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh View Post

It is a little scary what marketers know about their targets.

Generally the marketers cannot access info specific to a person, they 'use' this info in a blanket fashion as in "display this toy advert to all people under age 26 who have used the key term 'rubiks cube'" as aposed to "target Larry Smith from shoreditch london".

The marketers do not 'know' about their targets. But they can 'target' their targets.
post #18 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimUSCA View Post

I realize this whole private data business is a slippery slope, and I don't know that I'd want it going past what it has already been.

But who freaking cares about your phone's ID number, age, location, etc? It's not like there are names, phone numbers, addresses, or anything of the sort being transmitted. It's all anonymous information used for advertising. Nothing more than ad agencies trying to reach their target market.

Personally, I couldn't care less. Maybe it's because I'm in marketing, so I completely understand the importance of reaching target audiences, but if none of the information is personally identifiable, I think anyone who is upset about this is being a baby and doesn't fully understand what's really going on here.

As I said, it's a slippery slope. But so far, nothing of much importance has been transmitted. Also, if I'm going to be shown ads (which I am), I'd much rather them be relevant to my life than completely random garbage.

It's not about the anonymous details like age and gender, it's about tying it to a unique piece of information that you cannot block or change and that can actually tell the advertiser your exact address, buying habits sexual orientation, where you travel and when. It's not just the information that the phone sends, it is connected with your credit card purchases, contests you enter, flights you take. With the phone they can now actually see your location and they make the assumption that where your located most is your home address and could drive right to your house. I don't care if they track my likes and send me ads based on that, but I do not want them to know how to drive to my house, or when I am in the bathroom.
post #19 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

Generally the marketers cannot access info specific to a person, they 'use' this info in a blanket fashion as in "display this toy advert to all people under age 26 who have used the key term 'rubiks cube'" as aposed to "target Larry Smith from shoreditch london".

The marketers do not 'know' about their targets. But they can 'target' their targets.

The can, using all the information from the phone and from other sources they can learn everything about you. Where you are at any given time of the day, what you bought and for whom if it was a gift, if you are in proximity to another device and who that person is, are you cheating on your partner, are you married man and having an interlude with a man? All this can be gleaned with the information that is out there about us. With the mobile phone, there is one piece of information that makes it all possible, the ID code. It cannot be change or hidden. Are you sure you want advertisers to know when you are in the bedroom?
post #20 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radjin View Post

It's not about the anonymous details like age and gender, it's about tying it to a unique piece of information that you cannot block or change and that can actually tell the advertiser your exact address, buying habits sexual orientation

Again, the advertiser will not be given your "exact address" they will be given options to target users within a post code range or province or state or country.

This is just way over hyped. That said, I can't stand googles or facebooks approach to privacy, they just dont seem to give a crap. But even with these two rogue companies, they still will not allow my company access to information specific to a user.

This has just been span out of all proportion by idiot magazines selling to the paranoid. Wired being a prime example.
post #21 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radjin View Post

The can, using all the information from the phone and from other sources they can learn everything about you. Where you are at any given time of the day, what you bought and for whom if it was a gift, if you are in proximity to another device and who that person is, are you cheating on your partner, are you married man and having an interlude with a man? All this can be gleaned with the information that is out there about us. With the mobile phone, there is one piece of information that makes it all possible, the ID code. It cannot be change or hidden. Are you sure you want advertisers to know when you are in the bedroom?

OK name me a marketing company that allows my company access to that information...
Certainly none of the marketing companies I have used.
post #22 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radjin View Post

The can, using all the information from the phone and from other sources they can learn everything about you. Where you are at any given time of the day, what you bought and for whom if it was a gift, if you are in proximity to another device and who that person is, are you cheating on your partner, are you married man and having an interlude with a man? All this can be gleaned with the information that is out there about us. With the mobile phone, there is one piece of information that makes it all possible, the ID code. It cannot be change or hidden. Are you sure you want advertisers to know when you are in the bedroom?

"are you cheating on your partner, are you married man and having an interlude with a man?"

You are crazy. You think you phone knows all that? Do you hide your phone from your wife too?
post #23 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


It's about time you Americans started awarding costs to the losing party in court cases, having the risk of paying Apple's legal expenses would stop a lot of these frivolous suits.

Tort reform is sorely needed in the U.S., but of course most bar associations will fight that tooth and nail.

Job security for attorneys...



Shoot 'em all and let God sort 'em out....
OMG here we go again...
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OMG here we go again...
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post #24 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter02l View Post

"are you cheating on your partner, are you married man and having an interlude with a man?"

You are crazy. You think you phone knows all that? Do you hide your phone from your wife too?

And my kids too. Otherwise the family runs down the battery playing Angry Birds.

P.S. Paranoid People are Funny and Sad all at the same time.
post #25 of 46
"location, age, gender, income, ethnicity, sexual orientation and political views"

How can your phone know this unless you agree to the services terms of service and privacy policy. Its not Apples fault its yours for entering this information. For example, Pandora gets that information when you sign up. I entered that info on my COMPUTER has nothing to do with the iPhone.
post #26 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by habi View Post

What about Android?!?!

This legal firm is interested in money, not privacy. If they were interested in privacy, they would have raised the issue in a public way before suing.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

 

Get the lowdown on the coming collapse:  http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45010

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

 

Get the lowdown on the coming collapse:  http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45010

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post #27 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Well.. the UDID is not a users data, it is a device ID and has nothing to do with the user. Apple in their documentations instruct developers not to permanently associate the UDID with the user.

The fear is that one good hacker or a greedy Apple employee could reveal the names behind the IDs

Quote:
Furthermore, Apple provided the user with the necessary controls to block any app from using location services. It is not their responsibility if the user voluntarily agreed to the developers terms and agreed to provide such information to them.

the catch is that folks don't understand who is getting the info. Especially when it is outside of iAds. My proposal is this. All ad supported apps should be required to have a splash screen that comes up the first time the app is installed that clearly states the source of the ads, what information is gathered and requires you to 'approve' the ads to continue. If you don't agree, you remove the app and nothing from that session has been gathered. I would also love if all ad supported apps were required to have a buyout so users can pay one time and no ads but I don't see them doing that

Quote:
Originally Posted by vedavis View Post

A full-page iAd came up this morning advertising the Windows 7 Phone OS. Can't say AAPL isn't fair and balanced to advertisers, just not to your personal data.

I doubt that was an iAD given that Apple won't let mags devoted to other mobile OSes in the stores. I'm sure they vet th ads thru will be serving the same way
post #28 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

The fear is that one good hacker or a greedy Apple employee could reveal the names behind the IDs

Do we know if this information even exists in a DB to hack? This ID is not your IMEI number. Apple may not even store it, could be just a unique ID generated during the manufacturing process. I have not looked into it, but I am currently unaware of any evidence that suggests Apple actually stores the ID.
post #29 of 46
95% of lawyers give the rest a bad name!
post #30 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radjin View Post

It's not about the anonymous details like age and gender, it's about tying it to a unique piece of information that you cannot block or change and that can actually tell the advertiser your exact address, buying habits sexual orientation, where you travel and when. It's not just the information that the phone sends, it is connected with your credit card purchases, contests you enter, flights you take. With the phone they can now actually see your location and they make the assumption that where your located most is your home address and could drive right to your house. I don't care if they track my likes and send me ads based on that, but I do not want them to know how to drive to my house, or when I am in the bathroom.

Yeah, except they CAN'T get all that information. ZERO personally identifiable information is transmitted. They can't do anything with the information they're collecting except target you for a specific ad. That's it.

I know you don't know me, but trust me on this. I'm a marketing expert and know all about this stuff.
post #31 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stourque View Post

95% of lawyers give the rest a bad name!

Maybe God will be satisfied with only 95%....
OMG here we go again...
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OMG here we go again...
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post #32 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Downloading an App involves a conscious decision to do so, there are terms and conditions to be agreed to, it's written there when you install iTunes and is readily available under "View my Account" under "Store" in iTunes.

It is a voluntary action.

It's about time you Americans started awarding costs to the losing party in court cases, having the risk of paying Apple's legal expenses would stop a lot of these frivolous suits.

Since when did we become victims for not reading or using our brains?! My nephew was playing a Wii game the other day, he kept getting frustrated because he didn't know what to do. I asked him, "did you read what it told you to do?" "No", he says. So I tell him what it said & told him next time he needs to read what it says. It tells him again and sure enough he just clicks through it really fast not even reading, he then spent the next half hour running in circles cause he had no clue what he was supposed to do. The kid is 12, I know he can read, but he doesn't want to have to do anything that requires a bit of thinking. These days I'm just dumbfounded at the stupidity of our culture, we're really in trouble.
post #33 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

An iPhone user has sued Apple over advertisements appearing in mobile apps, following a report that outlined how mobile ads work.

New Business Model:

1. Identify any "hot phrase" that can be used as a publicity-attracting element.
2. Mate the hot phrase with any practice that is common to any deep-pocketed corporation.
3. Sue the corporation loudly and publicly for being associated with the hot phrase.
4. Most important: Raise money to "help sue that big, bad corporation."
5. Start the lawsuit.
6. Continue to berate the corporation loudly and publicly.
7. Wait until the suit bogs down. Your treasure chest should be 300% of expenditures.
8. Drop the suit.
9. Pocket the 300%.
post #34 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radjin View Post

The can, using all the information from the phone and from other sources they can learn everything about you. Where you are at any given time of the day, what you bought and for whom if it was a gift, if you are in proximity to another device and who that person is, are you cheating on your partner, are you married man and having an interlude with a man? All this can be gleaned with the information that is out there about us. With the mobile phone, there is one piece of information that makes it all possible, the ID code. It cannot be change or hidden. Are you sure you want advertisers to know when you are in the bedroom?


OMG..... you're right!! They might find out that I sleep for 7 hours each and every night!! Siht, I better throw my phone in the trash as soon as I can... LOL.


Regardless, I don't see anyone throwing a fit about credit cards, or grocery store key tags.. What about Onstar, or Factory navigation units. Stop light cameras, building security cameras, facial recognition cameras at malls etc.

You're worried about your phone ??? You better stay in your house for the rest of your life if you're worried about people tracking you.
post #35 of 46
The world would have survived just fine without Paper Toss.
Sock it to 'em, KKK.
post #36 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzMega View Post

New Business Model:

1. Identify any "hot phrase" that can be used as a publicity-attracting element.
2. Mate the hot phrase with any practice that is common to any deep-pocketed corporation.
3. Sue the corporation loudly and publicly for being associated with the hot phrase.
4. Most important: Raise money to "help sue that big, bad corporation."
5. Start the lawsuit.
6. Continue to berate the corporation loudly and publicly.
7. Wait until the suit bogs down. Your treasure chest should be 300% of expenditures.
8. Drop the suit.
9. Pocket the 300%.

That seems to have an air of truth to it.
I know other posters above have mentioned it, but I can't understand how Google hasn't been hit by these sort of cases since day one. It is probably more well known and has huge pockets, and it exists to suck private information out of each and every one of us.

Apple really does have a big bulls eye in the middle of their logo.
..... the greatest fame comes from adding to human knowledge, not winning battles.
Paraphrased from Napolean Bonaparte, 1798
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..... the greatest fame comes from adding to human knowledge, not winning battles.
Paraphrased from Napolean Bonaparte, 1798
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post #37 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

This legal firm is interested in money, not privacy. If they were interested in privacy, they would have raised the issue in a public way before suing.

The Wall Street Journal raised the issue publicly, and there has been no response from Apple, the app developers, or the advertising companies. The only way to really find out what they are doing is to take them to court.
post #38 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

The fear is that one good hacker or a greedy Apple employee could reveal the names behind the IDs

This the whole point of UDIDs. Apple uses serial numbers, which are not accessible by the developers, to associate the device with the buyer. UDID is only used to identify the uniqueness of each device for developers use. There shouldn't be any personal information associated with UDIDs on Apple servers.

Quote:
the catch is that folks don't understand who is getting the info. Especially when it is outside of iAds. My proposal is this. All ad supported apps should be required to have a splash screen that comes up the first time the app is installed that clearly states the source of the ads, what information is gathered and requires you to 'approve' the ads to continue. If you don't agree, you remove the app and nothing from that session has been gathered. I would also love if all ad supported apps were required to have a buyout so users can pay one time and no ads but I don't see them doing that

This already exist. Pandora does have license agreement that said exactly that but don't mention the source of the ads. I don't thing it really matters from where the ads come. Beside, if the user gave his personal information without reading the terms and understanding how his personal information will be used then it is his mistake for being an idiot.
post #39 of 46
I think this is more about trying to get $$$ than anything else... Apple does more for privacy than anyone else.

For a breakdown, read the response they gave to Rep. Markey on the privacy changes last June.

http://bit.ly/gSA5Gy (Adobe PDF file)
post #40 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuanGuapo View Post

I think this is more about trying to get $$$ than anything else...

Yes, Apple profits indirectly from it.
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