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Amazon Kindle sales strong, but many buyers already own Apple's iPad

post #1 of 47
Thread Starter 
Amazon this week said the latest version of its Kindle e-reader has been its best-selling ever, while "many" buyers also own a touchscreen tablet like Apple's iPad.

In a press release this week, Amazon said that the third-generation Kindle is now the best-selling product in the online retailer's history. The Kindle surpassed the book "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows" to take the top spot.

Amazon did not, however, disclose any actual sales figures for its e-ink-based book reader. It simply noted that the Wi-Fi and 3G Kindle models were the best-selling products on Amazon.com this holiday season.

"We're seeing that many of the people who are buying Kindles also own an LCD tablet," Amazon Chief Executive Jeff Bezos said. "Customers report using their LCD tablets for games, movies, and web browsing and their Kindles for reading sessions.

"They report preferring Kindle for reading because it weighs less, eliminates battery anxiety with its month-long battery, and has the advanced paper-like Pearl e-ink display that reduces eye-strain, doesn't interfere with sleep patterns at bedtime, and works outside in direct sunlight, an important consideration especially for vacation reading."

Of course, "LCD tablet" largely refers to Apple's iPad, the dominant device in the touchscreen tablet market. When the iPad launched earlier this year, it also marked the debut of the iBooks application for iOS devices, launching Apple's entrance into the e-book market and direct competition with the Amazon Kindle.

Despite continued strong sales of the Kindle, recent studies have found the e-ink reader has lost significant market share to the iPad. One survey released in November found that the Kindle carries 47 percent of the e-reader market, down from 68 percent in February 2010.

That survey found that Kindle readers are more likely to use the device for books, while iPad owners will use the color touchscreen to read more newspapers, magazines and websites.

Kindle is not only a device, but a platform, with a Kindle application available for both the iPad and iPhone. Amazon also allows customers to sync their books with traditional computers via the Kindle for Mac software.

Amazon also released facts about the 2010 holiday shopping season, many of them related to Apple. Among the best-selling electronics, in addition to the Kindle, was the 8GB iPod touch.

The online retailer also revealed that iPad and iPhone users were most likely to shop on Sunday. And the last Local Express Delivery order delivered in time for Christmas was a Mac Mini ordered at 1:41 p.m. on Christmas Eve. It was delivered to a customer in Woodinville, Wash., that evening at 8:04 p.m.
post #2 of 47
Not hugely surprising, the bombardment of iPad ads I see every week look like they've dropped all mention of books, indicating maybe people arnt hugely interested in it as a e-reader. While at the same time I know people that don't even read books talking about getting a kindle.
post #3 of 47
I own a Kindle 3- one of the best purchases I've ever made. And seeing how it sold out on Amazon, so have many others.
Having said that, I will also buy an iPad, 2nd generation that is.

Analysts really need to stop comparing the two items, there is no comparison.
It's like comparing a DVD player to a computer with a DVD-Rom drive.
post #4 of 47
Of course, it seems good strategy for Amazon to imply that if one already owns an iPad, buying a Kindle still makes sense.

It is true that Apple needs to do something to improve search facilities both in the iTunes store and in the iBook store, but especially in the last one.
post #5 of 47
Have some backbone and give us sales figures. Otherwise, you're about as reliable as the RIM "wonder twins" saying the PlayBook is 'way better than the iPad'. Sheesh..
post #6 of 47
The fact that Amazon is trying to market the Kindle as a great secondary product to the iPhone is an indicator that sales are leveling-off. As a consumer I need to make choices....I need my iPhone at all times and I take the iPad on the road. I would rather read from my iPad than adding a Kindle.

Plus, I just find it plain shady that Amazon is hiding sales figures. If its a great strategy, why doesn't Apple and Google do the same? Anyone with any common sense knows that Amazon is boosting hype to hide the fact that the Kindle sales would not be as impressive if we knew the real sales figures. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.
post #7 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeakerGendibal View Post

Have some backbone and give us sales figures. Otherwise, you're about as reliable as the RIM "wonder twins" saying the PlayBook is 'way better than the iPad'. Sheesh..

It's an Amazon "hobby" - he doesn't need to.
post #8 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraBuggy View Post

Plus, I just find it plain shady that Amazon is hiding sales figures. If its a great strategy, why doesn't Apple and Google do the same? Anyone with any common sense knows that Amazon is boosting hype to hide the fact that the Kindle sales would not be as impressive if we knew the real sales figures. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

Apple does do the same. Is Apple "shady"?
Look at the 1st generation Apple TV.
How many were sold? Sold for 3 years.
post #9 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLiver View Post

Apple does do the same.
Look at the 1st generation Apple TV.
How many were sold? Sold for 3 years.

It didn't matter, it was written-off as a hobby from its inception, no-one really cared. It is still viewed as a hobby. Furthermore, they never created false hype to try and sell more of the units. I stopped trusting Amazon when they cut-off Delicious library as well as others from accessing the database for no reason. I NEVER buy from Amazon.
post #10 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraBuggy View Post

It didn't matter, it was written-off as a hobby from its inception, no-one really cared. It is still viewed as a hobby. Furthermore, they never created false hype to try and sell more of the units. I stopped trusting Amazon when they cut-off Delicious library as well as others from accessing the database for no reason. I NEVER buy from Amazon.

What false hype?
Kindles are a mere fraction of Amazon's profits and therefor not driving Amazon's existence and therefor no need for disclosure - much like an Apple TV and Apple.
I never understand why if Apple does one thing it's OK but not allowed for another company- much like $50 Radio SHack iPhones being counted in their mix of iPhones sold yet Verizon's Android discounts are viewed as foul. Sacrilege!
post #11 of 47
Next Apple Insider Blog post

"X company has (good sales, whatever postive), however Apple does better somehow."

Apple Insider defining sad, bias, jounalism with every single blog post.

I have an iPad and a Kindle 3. I read a lot, and I would never use my iPad to read anything more than a short email, or a web page.

The Kindle 3 runs circles around the iPad as a e-reader.

The real story here is that the iPad as a e-reader is a failure, and that Kindle and others have continued strong sales. That bloggers and ANALists should not compare Apples to Oranges.
post #12 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

Next Apple Insider Blog post

"X company has (good sales, whatever postive), however Apple does better somehow."

Apple Insider defining sad, bias, jounalism with every single blog post.

I have an iPad and a Kindle 3. I read a lot, and I would never use my iPad to read anything more than a short email, or a web page.

The Kindle 3 runs circles around the iPad as a e-reader.

The real story here is that the iPad as a e-reader is a failure, and that Kindle and others have continued strong sales. That bloggers and ANALists should not compare Apples to Oranges.

You can not really compare an lcd to e-ink. There is no comparison. If you want to read, e-ink is far superior. The good news for Apple is that they have done much more damage to the netbook market than I think they anticipated.

Apple clearly misjudged what products they were actually competing against, but manage to come out strong anyway.
post #13 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

Next Apple Insider Blog post

"X company has (good sales, whatever postive), however Apple does better somehow."

Apple Insider defining sad, bias, jounalism with every single blog post.

I have an iPad and a Kindle 3. I read a lot, and I would never use my iPad to read anything more than a short email, or a web page.

The Kindle 3 runs circles around the iPad as a e-reader.

The real story here is that the iPad as a e-reader is a failure, and that Kindle and others have continued strong sales. That bloggers and ANALists should not compare Apples to Oranges.


What is really cool about Apple is that they don't care. Every company compares their products to iPhone, iPad, iPod, iTunes. Apple just keeps pushing forward with new and amazing technology. Motorola gave me a Droid 2 to develop Flash apps. I've been learning it and I wonder, where in the heck is the innovation?? they just ripped-off the iPhone. Apple turned such a huge corner on what cell phones should be. Why couldn't Google and RIM push beyond the iPhone instead of just copying. I don't get it.

I'm not a wealthy guy, I can't afford to buy an iPad AND a kindle, so, the best choice is definitely saving for an iPad. Millions of people seem to enjoy it, I have no idea what shady Amazon is selling because they need to hide the numbers for some bizarre reason.
post #14 of 47
I stand by my view that there is room in the tablet ecosystem for both, and much more. The iPad finally cracked the tablet market, but there is much more room for growth and innovation. Looking forward to the next breakthrough product.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #15 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLiver View Post

Apple does do the same. Is Apple "shady"?
Look at the 1st generation Apple TV.
How many were sold? Sold for 3 years.

The thing is companies don't report numbers that make them look bad. Apple didn't report first gen Apple TV numbers because they suck. Now, the 2nd gen is selling like hotcakes. They will report the numbers.

Same with Amazon on the Kindle. If the numbers made them look good, they would report them. They don't, so they say it is the best selling Kindle ever.

I think Amazon is doing the right thing by trying to associate their product as an compliment to the iPad. They sure can't sell more by setting up the two products as competition.
post #16 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

In a press release this week, Amazon said

Well, that about says it all!
Bezos would have you believe if you lust after the iPad it's alright to buy a dinky Kindle too.
post #17 of 47
I bought my mom a Kindle 3 for Christmas and I fell in love with the device. It doesn't compare with the iPad. It does what it does really well, and that is... read books. I found myself picking it up and wanting to read it. The iPad does everything great, but for some reason the Kindle is just one of those things that you put in your den and pick up for reading that book you are working on.
post #18 of 47
If Apple wanted to break into the eReader market some more, they could design an iPad that has the beautiful IPS LCD screen on the front side, and put a 9.8" eInk display on the back side. This would make the iPad flat like the iPhone 4. Then, use the accelerometer to determine which end is facing up and toggle the screen. They would still use the touchscreen on the LCD side for things like flipping pages. Flip it over to pick another book, etc.

I doubt this would ever happen, but it would be interesting to see if such a beast would be usable.
post #19 of 47
False hype?

The false hype is the fact that the Kindle(s) have been the run away #1 bestsellers on Amazon since day one. A list that is used to report news and other trends.

I even saw the question on a prime-time game show asking what the number one selling item was on Amazon last year. Guess what, it was the amazing Kindle. There is no proof because numbers are never made public, it is totally bogus. Nothing more than a PR stunt.

Wait, so most people buying a Kindle already own an LCD tablet (or iPad)? That makes no sense ... this whole article is just one big fabrication.

The Kindle was #1 even when they were out of stock ... give me a break.

Could you imaging GM or Toyota just giving out sales figures with no proof?

Ok, right now (12/28/10 @ 11:30 AM EST) on Amazon, Kindles hold the two top spots in Electronics (big surprise). They also have 3 of the top 6 and 4 of the top 10 ... are you freaking serious? These so called "Bestseller" lists are totally controlled by some tech geek at Amazon.

1.Kindle Wireless Reading Device, Wi-Fi, Graphite, 6" Display with New E Ink Pearl Technology by Amazon - Price: $139.00

2. Kindle 3G Wireless Reading Device, Free 3G + Wi-Fi, 3G Works Globally, Graphite, 6" Display with New E Ink Pearl Technology by Amazon - Price: $189.00

3. Seagate Expansion 640 GB USB 2.0 Portable External Hard Drive ST906404EXA101-RK by Seagate - Price: $84.95

4. Apple iPod touch 8 GB (4th Generation) NEWEST MODEL by Apple - Price: $209.95

5. Apple iPod touch 32 GB (4th Generation) NEWEST MODEL by Apple - Price: $274.95

6. Kindle 3G Wireless Reading Device, Free 3G + Wi-Fi, 3G Works Globally, White, 6" Display with New E Ink Pearl Technology by Amazon - Price: $189.00

7. Ranking has gone up in the past 24 hours - Apple TV MC572LL/A (2010) by Apple - Price: Price: $97.99

8. Roku XD Streaming Player 1080p by Roku - Price: $79.99

9. Ranking has gone down in the past 24 hours - Sony BDP-S570 3D Blu-ray Disc Player by Sony - Price: $148.00

10. Kindle DX Wireless Reading Device, Free 3G, 3G Works Globally, Graphite, 9.7" Display with New E Ink Pearl Technology by Amazon - Price: $379.00

...

The Apple TV is #7? And what do you think the ratio is of AppleTV sales to iPod touch sales?

Roku XD is #8? Walk into a mall and take a survey and see how many people even know what the heck a Roku XD even is. But yet it's the 8th biggest selling electronics device in the country according to Amazon.
post #20 of 47
looking to buy iPad2 this year, but in NYC i see way more Kindles

people want to read on the subway. kindles are cheap. hold a lot of books so you don't have to carry them around. last a long time so you aren't recharging it all the time.

and amazon's kindle store via a web browser is a lot better than the iBook store on the iPad
post #21 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotWake View Post

The thing is companies don't report numbers that make them look bad. Apple didn't report first gen Apple TV numbers because they suck. Now, the 2nd gen is selling like hotcakes. They will report the numbers.

Same with Amazon on the Kindle. If the numbers made them look good, they would report them. They don't, so they say it is the best selling Kindle ever.

I think Amazon is doing the right thing by trying to associate their product as an compliment to the iPad. They sure can't sell more by setting up the two products as competition.

First of all 1 million units sold is not exactly "selling like hotcakes".
And Amazon has done exactly the opposite - they have left the Kindle smartly as is- as a dedicated eReader. No color, no video. For readers, not mutli-media mavens.
post #22 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

looking to buy iPad2 this year, but in NYC i see way more Kindles

people want to read on the subway. kindles are cheap. hold a lot of books so you don't have to carry them around. last a long time so you aren't recharging it all the time.

and amazon's kindle store via a web browser is a lot better than the iBook store on the iPad

And smaller and much much lighter.
post #23 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkichline View Post

I bought my mom a Kindle 3 for Christmas and I fell in love with the device. It doesn't compare with the iPad. It does what it does really well, and that is... read books. I found myself picking it up and wanting to read it. The iPad does everything great, but for some reason the Kindle is just one of those things that you put in your den and pick up for reading that book you are working on.

Exactly- it almost has a non-techie feel to it. Very unassuming yet highly useable. And the new color Nooks are very heavy and full of glare. Jeff is very smart positioning the Kindle as the de facto reader out there. And now Best Buy carries them as well.
post #24 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

Not hugely surprising, the bombardment of iPad ads I see every week look like they've dropped all mention of books, indicating maybe people arnt hugely interested in it as a e-reader. While at the same time I know people that don't even read books talking about getting a kindle.

Considering the fact that you can only access the iTunes Bookstore from the device (meaning only in the app on the device) and the fact that you can't read books in iTunes on your computer...i'm sure there are plenty of iPad users that are frustrated by the lack of attention Apple has paid to this service since its inception. I for one never use it because I can't borrow books from the library on it and the various formats that are compatible don't translate to Adobe digital editions. The Nook is really the only mainstream device that does all that, and now it's in color (which i think is a mistake, since the e-ink is much easier on the eyes than LCD).

Plus authors are getting pretty frustrated with the various formats now in place, especially books where there are side-bar notes and diagrams. The translation of books to e-book format needs to be standardized if we are to see any real progress though. I just listened to a NPR podcast where they said even though e-books are selling better than ever, the % of physical books to e-books is still in the +90% range. Although i think most of that is simply due to the fact that most e-readers are still not affordable enough for everyone.

This is just the version 2.0 of a long road for e-books. It will get better, but it might take some time, longer than many would like i'm afraid.
post #25 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLiver View Post

Exactly- it almost has a non-techie feel to it. Very unassuming yet highly useable. And the new color Nooks are very heavy and full of glare. Jeff is very smart positioning the Kindle as the de facto reader out there. And now Best Buy carries them as well.

Kindle sales are not that important to Amazon per se. What they want to do is sell books, Which device their books are read on matter not so much. For reading I use my iPhone when I need to and have no problems. I like the ipad for night time and low light reading but my dedicated e-reader (not Kindle) is great for bright light situations.

But I agree that the dedicated ereader has some other real advantages such as weight and battery life. The fact that it is dedicated makes it simpler to use. Convergence is great in theory but not always in practice and so I live with 4 devices. An iPhone, an iPad, an erader (Kobo) and of course my MBP, the trusty old workhorse.

If I didn't have to bring my iPad to work (I don't) I would always choose an erader for the subway over an iPad.
post #26 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeRyman View Post

The Apple TV is #7? And what do you think the ratio is of AppleTV sales to iPod touch sales?

Roku XD is #8? Walk into a mall and take a survey and see how many people even know what the heck a Roku XD even is. But yet it's the 8th biggest selling electronics device in the country according to Amazon.

No, the Roku XD is not the 8th biggest selling electronics device in the country (U.S). It's the 8th best selling device (for that hour) on Amazon. That's kind of a big difference. Amazon sells a lot of stuff that is hard or impossible to find in retail stores thus the best selling lists have nothing to do with how popular any item is in the country. I went to Best Buy's website and the Roku XD is unavailable for shipping and none of the stores in my area have it in stock. And, similarly, for most of its existence, the Kindle was only available through Amazon which is going to increase its sales figures versus things such as an iPod Touch that can be picked up at a large variety of stores.

As an aside, how many people in a mall would know what an AppleTV was? How many would respond saying they didn't know that Apple made TVs? What depressingly small percentage could even correctly tell you who the current president is?
post #27 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wovel View Post

You can not really compare an lcd to e-ink. There is no comparison. If you want to read, e-ink is far superior. The good news for Apple is that they have done much more damage to the netbook market than I think they anticipated.

Apple clearly misjudged what products they were actually competing against, but manage to come out strong anyway.

While I have no doubt that netbooks have been impacted by the iPad, they still sold 38 million 2010, which is up from 2009 and all indicators are that they will increase in 2011. Netbooks quickly rose then started peaking before the iPad was even know about. It is the natural way of a product. The smaller version of the Air will add to Netbook sales.
post #28 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeRyman View Post

Ok, right now (12/28/10 @ 11:30 AM EST) on Amazon…

#8. Roku XD Streaming Player 1080p by Roku - Price: $79.99

The Roku XDS for $99.99 is now ahead of the XD. Their CEO said their sales were doubled from the AppleTV’s release. Apple did this before with the iPhone with smartphone interest and the iPod with PMP interest. I guess it’s a bit of a double edged sword. You get a surge of sales, but it may come at an inevitable loss of your entire market if your not careful.

I think Roku’s saving grace is that Apple probably won’t upgrade the AppleTV to support 1080p until 1080p is available from the iTS. However, the AppleTV seems to be successful enough to warrant Apple making an SDK/App Store and integrating it into the ecosystem in a way that Roku could never do, and $99 is low enough for CE impulse buy.

Quote:
#9. Ranking has gone down in the past 24 hours - Sony BDP-S570 3D Blu-ray Disc Player by Sony - Price: $148.00

Who would pay that much for a Blu-ray player when they can be had for half that price¡
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #29 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

They report preferring Kindle for reading because it weighs less, eliminates battery anxiety with its month-long battery, and has the advanced paper-like Pearl e-ink display that reduces eye-strain, doesn't interfere with sleep patterns at bedtime, and works outside in direct sunlight, an important consideration especially for vacation reading.

Apple could solve this issue in one move and I wish they would. The iPad is too heavy but it's also a good size for browsing so making a smaller version isn't a great idea.

They just need to realise that different applications have different hardware requirements and go the modular route. The iPad has a lower spec than the current iPhone 4 so why make both?

The only device they need to sell is the iPod Touch. It performs the same as the iPhone, it just needs the better camera:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3903/a...-mans-iphone-4

Then they just make holders for it.
Have an add-on to let you make calls on any network you choose.
Have an e-reader add-on that lets you read books.
Have a 10" screen add-on that lets you browse and do some productive tasks.

All of your data is on the same core device. Apple could even have partnered up with Amazon and had the Kindle be the iPod eReader accessory.

Having people buy another A4 processor + RAM + GPU seems a waste when they just need the screen + battery. Then have a scalable UI that works across all screens. If you get wireless display technology in there, even better although that would drain the battery quickly.
post #30 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraBuggy View Post

... Apple turned such a huge corner on what cell phones should be. Why couldn't Google and RIM push beyond the iPhone instead of just copying. I don't get it. ...

Google's original version of Android was a straight ripoff of BlackBerry. Don't believe me? Here's a photo from Wikipedia: BlackBerry clone.

Originally Google's reason for creating Android was to take business from Microsoft's Windows Mobile. Google saw how successful RIM had become with BlackBerry, so they copied BlackBerry. Google's tactic in attacking Microsoft was to copy Microsoft's strongest competitor. At first it was RIM's BlackBerry. But when Apple released iPhone, Google ran back to the drawing board to copy iPhone OS, as it was called back then.

Never forget: Google gives away Android for free to maximize the number of eyeballs on AdMob ads. Not as a grand altruistic gesture.

And what did RIM do when iPhone was introduced? Nothing. They sat there, in denial, and ignored iPhone and its Android clones. RIM was being attacked by iPhone at the high end and Android at the low end. Their market share eroded, but they figured their core enterprise business would be safe.

Wrong. iOS now has Exchange support, remote wipe, and other enterprise connectivity and security features. So what did RIM do? They rushed out a bad copy of iOS and its multi-touch interface, which simultaneously repelled new users and alienated their existing consumer and corporate users. RIM's remaining users have been brainwashed to think they still need mechanical keyboards.

The thing that both Google and RIM have in common is lack of vision. Google only wants to maximize the number of AdMob ads seen by their Android users. It is not necessary or even profitable to innovate in order to achieve that goal. Their vision is a world full of cheap or free Android devices all playing ads.

RIM is finally acknowledging that they are in trouble. They are losing market share, and their new subscriber rates dropped off a cliff this fall. But instead of innovating to save their phone handset business, they are starting work on an iPad wannabe. RIM's vision of the future is PlayBook running QNX plus the same old BlackBerry with its mechanical keyboard. They don't even have a prototype PlayBook to demo, and yet they say they are "ahead" of Apple's iPad. Time to install some new top management.

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post #31 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The iPad is too heavy but it's also a good size for browsing so making a smaller version isn't a great idea.

Id like it to be lighter, but I dont want to sacrifice the screen real estate, durability or battery life to get it. I also have plenty of books that are much, much heavier than the iPad so saying its too heavy seems hyperbolic to me.

Quote:
They just need to realise that different applications have different hardware requirements and go the modular route. The iPad has a lower spec than the current iPhone 4 so why make both?

The only device they need to sell is the iPod Touch. It performs the same as the iPhone, it just needs the better camera:

¿Que? It was demoed 6 months before the iPhone 4 was released and its a new product category for Apple with a new UI. I dont think anyone should expect that from a first generation product category. I think the fact Apple used a 1GHz 'A4' instead of just recommissioning the 3GS HW is telling.

Note that the iPod Touch has lower specs than the iPhones that precede it. Most notably the non-IPS display.

Quote:
Having people buy another A4 processor + RAM + GPU seems a waste when they just need the screen + battery. Then have a scalable UI that works across all screens. If you get wireless display technology in there, even better although that would drain the battery quickly.

Its scalable for devs because they made it that way, but the UI isnt just a smearing of the UI found in the iPhone. Its a completely new UI using CocoaTouch designed specifically for the iPad.

As for having you buy "another A4 processor + RAM + GPU seems a waste I hope youre not suggesting that the next iPad be a giant dummy dock for the iPhone and/or iPod Touch.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #32 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

Next Apple Insider Blog post

"X company has (good sales, whatever postive), however Apple does better somehow."

Apple Insider defining sad, bias, jounalism with every single blog post.

I have an iPad and a Kindle 3. I read a lot, and I would never use my iPad to read anything more than a short email, or a web page.

The Kindle 3 runs circles around the iPad as a e-reader.

The real story here is that the iPad as a e-reader is a failure, and that Kindle and others have continued strong sales. That bloggers and ANALists should not compare Apples to Oranges.

I remember the old days when Apple Insider actually had articles about Apple...now, especially over the last year, they have become more of an extension to Apple's PR department. Any article by Dan especially is so far screwed in Apple's direction, it can almost be funny at times. I believe he is an Apple stock holder or was so that makes sense but is never disclosed in his articles. Anyways...

When I bought my iPad, I gave my Kindle to my dad as a gift thinking the iPad would fill it's role for reading. But the Kindle is easier to read for longer times and just a little more portable for reading. So, I just bought a new Kindle for myself just for that purpose. But for the casual reader, the iPad will do and that is probably enough...
post #33 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I also have plenty of books that are much, much heavier than the iPad so saying its too heavy seems hyperbolic to me.

Possibly, there is a stat online from a big book retailer that the average book weighs 12oz and over 75% are under 1.7lbs. The iPad does fit into that bracket but I don't think I've ever heard any reviewer say that it feels light and it felt heavier than I expected in something that size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It was demoed 6 months before the iPhone 4 was released

Sure but they would have been working on the iPhone 4 before then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Note that the iPod Touch has lower specs than the iPhones that precede it. Most notably the non-IPS display.

Yeah but that's just because they want to hit a certain price-point. If they had a single product, it wouldn't be necessary to do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Its scalable for devs because they made it that way, but the UI isnt just a smearing of the UI found in the iPhone. Its a completely new UI using CocoaTouch designed specifically for the iPad.

They didn't redevelop CocoaTouch for the iPad. They just added some functions like UIPopOverController and resampled the UI elements at a higher resolution.

If they had a different CocoaTouch implementation, iPhone apps wouldn't work properly.

The scalable UI is going to become important with the next iPad version because I'd be surprised if they get a 2048 x 1536 screen on there. If they manage it, it will be ok but create a disconnect between iPad 1 apps and iPhone 4 apps. If they stick with 1024 x 768, they won't be able to call it a retina display so in some ways is inferior for reading on than an iPhone. If they go somewhere in between like 1600 x 1200, that's not going to be the best for upscaling as you aren't using whole pixels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

As for having you buy "another A4 processor + RAM + GPU seems a waste I hope youre not suggesting that the next iPad be a giant dummy dock for the iPhone and/or iPod Touch.

Why don't you hope that? It means that you get both at a cheaper price and no loss in performance. The next iPad won't go beyond iPhone 5.
post #34 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Sure but they would have been working on the iPhone 4 before then.

Working on, sure, but that doesnt mean anything considering these designed are worked on a couple years before becoming a shipping product. The mistake weve seen with other vendors is theyve thought they could simply swap out a component or two and have everything fall into place when the reality is much more complex than that and anything less leads to an inferior product.

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They didn't redevelop CocoaTouch for the iPad. They just added some functions like UIPopOverController and resampled the UI elements at a higher resolution.

I didnt say they developed CocoaTouch for the iPad, but they did develop a new UI for the iPad using CocoaTouch. Big difference and its what makes the iPad work.

No, the difference between IOS for iPhone/Touch and iOS for iPad isnt the inclusion of PopOvers. The entire UI was designed to meet the needs of the primary I/O, the display panel.

Just look at how iPhone/Touch apps look on the iPad. Even Google says Android wont be ready for tablets until 3.0.

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If they had a different CocoaTouch implementation, iPhone apps wouldn't work properly.

Again, different UI, not different API.

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If they stick with 1024 x 768, they won't be able to call it a retina display so in some ways is inferior for reading on than an iPhone. If they go somewhere in between like 1600 x 1200, that's not going to be the best for upscaling as you aren't using whole pixels.

I dont see Apple trying to compete with itself on that level. Its like saying Macs are shitty because they have less pixels than the iPhone/Touch.. and they always have. The larger the display the less dense the pixels will tend to be. This isnt likely to change anytime soon.

Note that the original iPhone was slightly ahead of the curve with the original iPhone display, but by the 3rd generation it was well behind. I see no precedence for Apple to increase the display willy nilly.

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Why don't you hope that? It means that you get both at a cheaper price and no loss in performance. The next iPad won't go beyond iPhone 5.

It makes for an inferior device. Its slower, heavier, and costlier than it needs to be.

This is how the iPhone 4 connects to the board.

I cant imagine how using the 30-pin dock connector to run the display output, touch panel input, power charging, bypass connectors and whatever other HW you have would be to make this is a horrible experience.

And what if you dont want to use iPhone, but an iPod Touch does it have some dock sleeve to put on? What if you just want a tablet, you now have to buy two items, you now have two displays, etc. all in a larger overall size that is more prone to wear and tear and other potential issues. Apple doesnt even have user removal batteries on their notebooks!
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #35 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The Roku XDS for $99.99 is now ahead of the XD. Their CEO said their sales were doubled from the AppleTVs release. Apple did this before with the iPhone with smartphone interest and the iPod with PMP interest. I guess its a bit of a double edged sword. You get a surge of sales, but it may come at an inevitable loss of your entire market if your not careful.

I think Rokus saving grace is that Apple probably wont upgrade the AppleTV to support 1080p until 1080p is available from the iTS. However, the AppleTV seems to be successful enough to warrant Apple making an SDK/App Store and integrating it into the ecosystem in a way that Roku could never do, and $99 is low enough for CE impulse buy.


Who would pay that much for a Blu-ray player when they can be had for half that price¡

Possibly the same person who would pay more for a Mac when an HP can be had for half the price!

And with the HP you get Windows as a bonus rather than OSX.
post #36 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I didnt say they developed CocoaTouch for the iPad, but they did develop a new UI for the iPad using CocoaTouch. Big difference and its what makes the iPad work.

It was your mention of 'using CocoaTouch' that suggested it was different from the iPhone SDK. The UI wasn't drastically overhauled from what I can see. The list views are the same, just split in two. the home screen is the same but one extra column and row. Anyway, that doesn't require there to be a separation between the distributions and for the dock idea, it would use the UI layout for the bigger screen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It makes for an inferior device. Its slower, heavier, and costlier than it needs to be.

It could well be slower as it will optimise for the small battery but when docked, it could go faster. It wouldn't be heavier. The iPod Touch is 3.5 ounces. You're saying it's costlier to own an iPod Touch + screen Dock than just an iPad. Well a 32GB iPod Touch is $299 and a 32GB iPad is $599.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I cant imagine how using the 30-pin dock connector to run the display output, touch panel input, power charging, bypass connectors and whatever other HW you have would be to make this is a horrible experience.

The bandwidth of the 30-pin port could be a concern. It handles video output ok but there's a chance it wouldn't be enough. I think it's about time they replaced the 30-pin plug by now anyway. Micro-USB 3 or something would work better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

And what if you dont want to use iPhone, but an iPod Touch does it have some dock sleeve to put on? What if you just want a tablet, you now have to buy two items, you now have two displays, etc. all in a larger overall size that is more prone to wear and tear and other potential issues. Apple doesnt even have user removal batteries on their notebooks!

You can think of it the other way too though, what if you want both a tablet and phone, which is a more likely scenario than just a tablet. In that scenario, you have to buy two devices outright at huge expense, especially with data access on both. There was a survey of 448 iPad owners where 66% had an iPhone already and 92% had an iPod:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-10472604-17.html

Almost everyone has a mobile phone so like I say, why produce all these redundant devices? Just focus on one product, perfect the manufacturing process and drive the cost down with volume then offer flexibility with accessories.

Although an iPad may cost less than an iPod + dock, they don't have to buy at the same time. Christmas one year it's the iPod for $299 and the next, it's the screen for $199 or whatever. Wear and tear isn't a huge issue as you dock your iPhone daily anyway.
post #37 of 47
When will you guys get?
Amazon Kindle is an e-Reader. Stop comparing it with iPad. They are just in different market.
Same Apple. Same Mac. Different Take. Different Place. http://Applemacness.com
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Same Apple. Same Mac. Different Take. Different Place. http://Applemacness.com
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post #38 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

Not hugely surprising, the bombardment of iPad ads I see every week look like they've dropped all mention of books, indicating maybe people arnt hugely interested in it as a e-reader. While at the same time I know people that don't even read books talking about getting a kindle.

I have a couple hundred epub/pdf books on my iPad. I could care less about using a Kindle.
post #39 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by striker_kk View Post

When will you guys get?
Amazon Kindle is an e-Reader. Stop comparing it with iPad. They are just in different market.

Its you that doesn't get it, Amazon released the Kindle SDK and announced a soon to be released app store in Jan. 2010 (remember that Amazon debacle?). Amazon said it was to combat its newest soon-to-be-released competitor....the new Apple tablet.

Even if YOU think they are in different markets, Amazon does not agree. It looks as iPad as a direct competitor and it is not going well for Kindle based on inside information.
post #40 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by striker_kk View Post

When will you guys get?
Amazon Kindle is an e-Reader. Stop comparing it with iPad. They are just in different market.

I agree 100%. Bought my wife a kindle for christmas and she loves it. The ipad is cool but for an e-reader I believe the kindle is a much better choice.
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