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Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen re-files patent suit against Apple

post #1 of 35
Thread Starter 
Multi-billionaire and Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen has re-filed his patent suit against Apple, Google and several other major tech companies, adding specific examples of the alleged infringement.

Allen caused a stir in August when he accused Apple, Google and 11 other companies of infringing on patents developed by his now-defunct company, Interval Research Corp. At issue are four patents related to online recommendations that were granted to Interval as long as 10 years ago. The Palo Alto, Calif., lab closed down "about a decade ago," according to The Wall Street Journal.

The suit from Interval "sounds like the classic patent-troll case," Stanford Law School professor Mark Lemley, who specializes in intellectual property, told the Journal. Patent trolls are companies that aggressively pursue patent lawsuits against other companies without using their own patents in actual products.

In October, Apple teamed up with its fellow defendants to oppose the lawsuit by filing a motion to dismiss the charges.

"Interval has sued eleven major corporations and made the same bald assertions that each defendant infringes 197 claims in four patents," Apple wrote in the motion. "As the U.S. Supreme Court noted in Twombly, it is in this type of situation in which courts should use their 'power to insist upon some specificity in pleading before allowing a potentially massive factual controversy to proceed.'"

Earlier this month, a judge granted the motion and dismissed the lawsuit for being too vague, calling the allegations "spartan." However, Allen was given until Dec. 28 to file an amended complaint.

In advance of Tuesday's deadline, Allen has re-filed his complaint with examples of the alleged infringement, MacNN reports. The updated filing accuses Apple of infringing on Interval's patents with its iTunes Store album purchasing view.



Hundreds of millions of dollars could be at stake in this lawsuit, though many experts view the suit as a "last major gamble," according to the report.

Patent lawsuit awards have reached new levels. Apple is currently appealing a $625.5 million ruling against it on patents relating to Cover Flow. The $625.5 million judgment was the second-biggest jury verdict in 2010, and the fourth biggest in U.S. history.

Allen's suit accuses the defendants of violating the following four patents:
United States Patent No. 6,263,507 issued for an invention entitled "Browser for Use in Navigating a Body of Information, With Particular Application to Browsing Information Represented By Audiovisual Data."
United States Patent No. 6,034,652 issued for an invention entitled "Attention Manager for Occupying the Peripheral Attention of a Person in the Vicinity of a Display Device."
United States Patent No. 6,788,314 issued for an invention entitled "Attention Manager for Occupying the Peripheral Attention of a Person in the Vicinity of a Display Device."
United States Patent No. 6,757,682 issued for an invention entitled "Alerting Users to Items of Current Interest."
Given the recent spate of lawsuits that are targeting Apple, the Cupertino, Calif., company has been forced to 'lawyer up' by expanding its legal department and hiring successful patent lawyers as outside counsel.
post #2 of 35
Alerting users to items of current interest???

Why not go after the newspaper or the local news channel?...
post #3 of 35
i should go back in time and copywrite the idea to "go to court with any parties due to possible using of copywrited ideas"

lol

on that note, here is the whole artical (please remind me to delete this once it is actually the whole artical on top)
Quote:
Multi-billionaire and Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen has re-filed his patent suit against Apple, Google and several other major tech companies, adding specific examples of the alleged infringement.

Allen caused a stir in August when he accused Apple, Google and 11 other companies of infringing on patents developed by his now-defunct company, Interval Research Corp. At issue are four patents related to online recommendations that were granted to Interval as long as 10 years ago. The Palo Alto, Calif., lab closed down "about a decade ago," according to The Wall Street Journal.

The suit from Interval "sounds like the classic patent-troll case," Stanford Law School professor Mark Lemley, who specializes in intellectual property, told the Journal. Patent trolls are companies that aggressively pursue patent lawsuits against other companies without using their own patents in actual products.

In October, Apple teamed up with its fellow defendants to oppose the lawsuit by filing a motion to dismiss the charges.

"Interval has sued eleven major corporations and made the same bald assertions that each defendant infringes 197 claims in four patents," Apple wrote in the motion. "As the U.S. Supreme Court noted in Twombly, it is in this type of situation in which courts should use their 'power to insist upon some specificity in pleading before allowing a potentially massive factual controversy to proceed.'"

Earlier this month, a judge granted the motion and dismissed the lawsuit for being too vague, calling the allegations "spartan." However, Allen was given until Dec. 28 to file an amended complaint.

In advance of Tuesday's deadline, Allen has re-filed his complaint with examples of the alleged infringement, MacNN reports. The updated filing accuses Apple of infringing on Interval's patents with its iTunes Store album purchasing view.
Hundreds of millions of dollars could be at stake in this lawsuit, though many experts view the suit as a "last major gamble," according to the report.

Patent lawsuit awards have reached new levels. Apple is currently appealing a $625.5 million ruling against it on patents relating to Cover Flow. The $625.5 million judgment was the second-biggest jury verdict in 2010, and the fourth biggest in U.S. history.

Allen's suit accuses the defendants of violating the following four patents:
United States Patent No. 6,263,507 issued for an invention entitled "Browser for Use in Navigating a Body of Information, With Particular Application to Browsing Information Represented By Audiovisual Data."

United States Patent No. 6,034,652 issued for an invention entitled "Attention Manager for Occupying the Peripheral Attention of a Person in the Vicinity of a Display Device."

United States Patent No. 6,788,314 issued for an invention entitled "Attention Manager for Occupying the Peripheral Attention of a Person in the Vicinity of a Display Device."

United States Patent No. 6,757,682 issued for an invention entitled "Alerting Users to Items of Current Interest."

Given the recent spate of lawsuits that are targeting Apple, the Cupertino, Calif., company has been forced to 'lawyer up' by expanding its legal department and hiring successful patent lawyers as outside counsel.

PC means personal computer.  

i have processing issues, mostly trying to get my ideas into speech and text.

if i say something confusing please tell me!

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PC means personal computer.  

i have processing issues, mostly trying to get my ideas into speech and text.

if i say something confusing please tell me!

Reply
post #4 of 35
Has Allen fallen on hard times?

In case like this I'd like to see a 'looser pays' system.
From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
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From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
Google Motto "You're not the customer. You're the product."
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post #5 of 35
Apple has had just about the least effective legal team I've ever seen for a multi-billion dollar company. We'll see how they handle this.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #6 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolbolas View Post

i should go back in time and copywrite the idea to "go to court with any parties due to possible using of copywrited ideas"

lol

on that note, here is the whole artical (please remind me to delete this once it is actually the whole artical on top)

You know what the sad part about what you said is? Something like what you said is already patented.
post #7 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Apple has had just about the least effective legal team I've ever seen for a multi-billion dollar company. We'll see how they handle this.

What do you mean? Apple gets sued multiple times per year. The number of losses that they get are minimal.
post #8 of 35
What is really sad to is that a company that failed not only to implement there patent but also failed as a company a decade ago can have the founder sue not one successful company but all of the major players in an industry.

Seems only right if a company is gone and the tech has not been used by said company it should be a forfeit and up to another company to claim that will use said tech.

i.e. domain names

If your company goes defunct and you don't renew the domain it once again in the public kitty for someone else to claim.

But thats just how I feel and not the law.
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post #9 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Apple has had just about the least effective legal team I've ever seen for a multi-billion dollar company. We'll see how they handle this.

DED actually documents how good they are, though on my bookmarks of his articles I can't find where it is. One company who sucessfully sued M$ for millions got smacked down by apple and had the patent invalidated.
post #10 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeolian View Post

Alerting users to items of current interest???

Why not go after the newspaper or the local news channel?...

I actually think that patent is their most easily winnable. If they truly were awarded the patent in 2000, all the suggestions on Amazon.com my infringe.

Despite their stupidity, some of these may prove valid...
post #11 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by huntercr View Post

I actually think that patent is their most easily winnable. If they truly were awarded the patent in 2000, all the suggestions on Amazon.com my infringe.

Despite their stupidity, some of these may prove valid...

From what I understood you can not patent a collective idea, or one that's been around for a very long time. You can't patent a wheel for example, or a barrel. Now, alerting someone to current items of interests goes way back to The Town Choir. For those of us who are not familiar with the actual meaning of a Choir, it was how we were alerted to current interests before newspapers were invented. Mostly it was a person who stood at the most traveled spot in a town and shouted anything new, including laws, outlaws, news etc.

I motion to invalidate his claim based upon the same rules that makes it impossible for me to patent a technology that's been around before patent laws existed.

If this goes through I'll patent the pyramid and sue the country of Egypt for a percentage of the money they gained on tourism.
post #12 of 35
I invented a "method for evacuating bowels in the bathroom while reading a magazine."

Paul Allen, you owe me $$$ !
post #13 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by huntercr View Post

I actually think that patent is their most easily winnable. If they truly were awarded the patent in 2000, all the suggestions on Amazon.com my infringe.

Despite their stupidity, some of these may prove valid...


Sears & Roebuck had essentially Amazon.com's exact same sales display as early as 1890 in their mail order catalog. Although it was transmitted by pony and stagecoach rather than wires, it was digital data, and users were free to write testimonials; that is not new (or even a 20th century invention).

It seems obvious that you would use a customer's prior purchases and inquiries to tailor sales calls. I would imagine this technology is ~1,000 years old, but probably far older. Just a quick opinion.
post #14 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Apple has had just about the least effective legal team I've ever seen for a multi-billion dollar company. We'll see how they handle this.

Or a very effective one. Many times when they settle it is with a condition of 'no fault'. So they are admitting they did anything they just want the person to shut up and go away. Te settlements are generally less than the lawyer fees and a court loss would cost them.

Re: these claims, they are still rather vague and courts often toss cases for things that are basic and viewed as universal features. Especially when they have been around for a while and no one spoke up. Plus there is the issue of exact tech used. If each company is using something vastly different from the filed details to achieve their goal or no actual tech is in the filings, the judge could go against Allen and say there is no infringement

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #15 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeolian View Post

From what I understood you can not patent a collective idea, or one that's been around for a very long time. You can't patent a wheel for example, or a barrel. Now, alerting someone to current items of interests goes way back to The Town Choir. For those of us who are not familiar with the actual meaning of a Choir, it was how we were alerted to current interests before newspapers were invented. Mostly it was a person who stood at the most traveled spot in a town and shouted anything new, including laws, outlaws, news etc.

I motion to invalidate his claim based upon the same rules that makes it impossible for me to patent a technology that's been around before patent laws existed.

If this goes through I'll patent the pyramid and sue the country of Egypt for a percentage of the money they gained on tourism.

Naturally, I get the gist of your post and agree, but I think you meant "The Town Crier"

PS. It could be a dialect problem if you're from Boston; or you got the idea from watching Elmer Fudd and too much Loony Toons
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post #16 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

Naturally, I get the gist of your post and agree, but I think you meant "The Town Crier"

PS. It could be a dialect problem if you're from Boston; or you got the idea from watching Elmer Fudd and too much Loony Toons

MAybe Glee
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post #17 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

DED actually documents how good they are, though on my bookmarks of his articles I can't find where it is. One company who sucessfully sued M$ for millions got smacked down by apple and had the patent invalidated.

Any idea what that 'company' is?
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Same Apple. Same Mac. Different Take. Different Place. http://Applemacness.com
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post #18 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeolian View Post

From what I understood you can not patent a collective idea, or one that's been around for a very long time. You can't patent a wheel for example, or a barrel. Now, alerting someone to current items of interests goes way back to The Town Choir. For those of us who are not familiar with the actual meaning of a Choir, it was how we were alerted to current interests before newspapers were invented. Mostly it was a person who stood at the most traveled spot in a town and shouted anything new, including laws, outlaws, news etc.

I motion to invalidate his claim based upon the same rules that makes it impossible for me to patent a technology that's been around before patent laws existed.

If this goes through I'll patent the pyramid and sue the country of Egypt for a percentage of the money they gained on tourism.

That should be town crier.

I like your description of obvious patents. Technology that pre-dates patent law.

This reminds me of Amazon's one-click shopping patent. Certainly pressing a button, keeping a store account, and paying for something have all been around for a long time. Although it is also pre-existing in this case, combining three existing inventions and calling it a new invention shouldn't be allowed.
post #19 of 35
Legacy: We never created anything useful.
post #20 of 35
Quote:
Paul Allen: Gunning for Google
An analysis of his latest suit suggests Android's maker has more to fear than Apple does

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/12/...ce=yahoo_quote

Interesting...
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"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
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post #21 of 35
This kind of patent wars do not help innovation, but stifles it.

At least one rule should be added for a patent to be enforceable: if you have actually used it (in an important way) in a product that you have brought to market. If such a limitation does not arrive soon and many simple things keep being patented, the economy is going to bleed a lot towards these kinds of leeches.

The economy is a lot like nature. Parasites and pirates are part of the economy as much as they are part of the real nature. The economy needs to be protected against pirates (e.g. the pirates that caused the credit crunch) and parasites.

Companies that actually innovate by bringing solutions to market have to invest heavily in many things. It is that investment that needs to be protected and that is what patents are for.

Patenting 'ideas' was not the idea behind the patent system. Patents were for actual 'solutions'.This distinction has sadly been lost.
post #22 of 35
WTF?!

Does all innovation have to come to a screeching halt before our government will do their Constitutional duty and eliminate these laws which only serve to stifle innovation?

Honestly, software should not be patentable. Pure and simple.

And the worst part is that I am not even sure that this is software. It sounds more like ideas to me, which the last time I checked were not patentable.
post #23 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwik View Post

I invented a "method for evacuating bowels in the bathroom while reading a magazine."

Paul Allen, you owe me $$$ !

How do you know he's infringing??
post #24 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by striker_kk View Post

Any idea what that 'company' is?

something to do with multimedia or the web. it's there on his site of roughlydrafted.com
post #25 of 35
it's shit like this, AI!

Tags, 'microsoft'.

Paul Allen has not worked at Microsoft in over 10 years, and only has shares in the company now. Due to stock links microsoft has with apple you may as well use the same RDF logic to claim Paul Allen is an apple employee too.


@nicolbolas "i should go back in time and copywrite the idea to "go to court with any parties due to possible using of copywrited ideas"

yes, hindsight is a wonderful thing. However coming up with a genuinely unique idea before anyone else that later becomes a logical commonplace idea / concept / process is actually quite hard. Challenge Accepted?
post #26 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by shao View Post

it's shit like this, AI!

Tags, 'microsoft'.

Paul Allen has not worked at Microsoft in over 10 years, and only has shares in the company now. Due to stock links microsoft has with apple you may as well use the same RDF logic to claim Paul Allen is an apple employee too.


@nicolbolas "i should go back in time and copywrite the idea to "go to court with any parties due to possible using of copywrited ideas"

yes, hindsight is a wonderful thing. However coming up with a genuinely unique idea before anyone else that later becomes a logical commonplace idea / concept / process is actually quite hard. Challenge Accepted?

it was more of the joke of, when ever someone has a lawsuite or pretty much any legal action like in in court, i would get paid lol... even if it had "against companies named Apple" i would be rich

plus ofc its hard to comup with good ideas.... it was a joke...

PC means personal computer.  

i have processing issues, mostly trying to get my ideas into speech and text.

if i say something confusing please tell me!

Reply

PC means personal computer.  

i have processing issues, mostly trying to get my ideas into speech and text.

if i say something confusing please tell me!

Reply
post #27 of 35
Thank heavens. Perhaps this will distract him from inflicting grotesque architectural monuments to his overweening ego on the people of Seattle.
post #28 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwik View Post

I invented a "method for evacuating bowels in the bathroom while reading a magazine."

Paul Allen, you owe me $$$ !

You are a genius, just let me get my cheque book
post #29 of 35
"issued for an invention entitled".... What the hell did he invent. He just wrote some stuff on a piece of paper and actually invented NOTHING.
post #30 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solipcyst View Post

"It" was digital data in exactly the same manner as spoken words are digital data. IOW, "it" is as analog as the day is long..

Words are certainly digital data. So it's written on paper... so what.
post #31 of 35
What's unique about Apple's screen? We designed a UI that looks very similar to that for an e-commerce site back in 1998.

Quote:
"Browser for Use in Navigating a Body of Information, With Particular Application to Browsing Information Represented By Audiovisual Data."

Seems to me that an album jacket and a list of album tracks is generic and standard business process.

Quote:
Attention Manager for Occupying the Peripheral Attention of a Person in the Vicinity of a Display Device.

Does Apple do this? Coulda fooled me.

Quote:
Alerting Users to Items of Current Interest.

You mean like "those who bought X also bought Y"? We did that in '98 as well.

I've always liked Allen because he restored the Cinerama theatre in Seattle, but these lawsuits seem to be ridiculous, unless I'm missing something.
post #32 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwik View Post

I invented a "method for evacuating bowels in the bathroom while reading a magazine."

Paul Allen, you owe me $$$ !

You're too kind by giving Allen the benefit of the doubt that he actually can read.
post #33 of 35
Doesn't Paul Allen have enough money already? Greedy patent trolls should be kicked in the stones.
post #34 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Apple has had just about the least effective legal team I've ever seen for a multi-billion dollar company. We'll see how they handle this.

Actually from what I have read, Apple has one of the meanest lawyers in the industry. Don't take my word for it but I read this somewhere on the net'.
post #35 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by shao View Post

it's shit like this, AI!

Tags, 'microsoft'.

Paul Allen has not worked at Microsoft in over 10 years, and only has shares in the company now. Due to stock links microsoft has with apple you may as well use the same RDF logic to claim Paul Allen is an apple employee too.


@nicolbolas "i should go back in time and copywrite the idea to "go to court with any parties due to possible using of copywrited ideas"

yes, hindsight is a wonderful thing. However coming up with a genuinely unique idea before anyone else that later becomes a logical commonplace idea / concept / process is actually quite hard. Challenge Accepted?

Over 10 years? Paul Allen was out of Microsoft by 1983. They gave him a board position that he held until 2000.
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