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Report: iPad will grow 250% in 2011 at the expense of PCs - Page 2

post #41 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

yes, it has a local workaround. but workarounds are not as good.

real problem tho is, how is chrome any better or more useful than Android tab with a Chrome browser? Chrome was a great idea 3 years ago. but then things changed.

Android has support for a mouse pointer and x86? I just can't can't see how anyone can look at an Android phone and think that is a more ideal OS for inexpensive netbooks over a desktop OS.

BTW, it's not a workaround, it's designed with that in mind. It's like saying WebOS isn't a real OS and can't store data locally simply because it, too, uses WebKit for the UI.
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post #42 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I agree that replace probably isn't the best word. The over all point is that there will be a shift in the market. People will use tablets in the place of where in the past they might have used a second or third PC.

Exactly. After all you need a computer to update, sync etc your iPad.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #43 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Flipboard as you indicated is more than an app -- it is you! It is your stuff -- the way you want to arrange, organize and access it.

But, on My iPad -- it is me! It is my stuff -- the way I want to arrange, organize and access it.

What if you could put your apps in there? Your files? The web pages you are currently accessing?

Who needs iOS -- the UI is so 2007

Seriously what if you could put all your stuff (including the apps you are running) in there -- why would you need any "System" UI for iOS?

Just unfold your infinite-size, infinite-depth Flipbook -- and everything's just as you left it.


This would work today, on today's iPad -- the iPhone or Touch, not so much!

Absolutely.

The people who say the iPad is just a big iPod touch are wrong. The 9.7" screen size turns it into different. Flipboard is one of those things you can't do on an iPhone, iPod touch, etc. It's like trying to play waterpolo in a bathtub.

It actually took me a while to understand Flipboard. I initially looked at it as a newspaper and actually deleted it from my iPad for a while. I brought it back, and then it dawned on me that it was all about me, my stuff.

I've dabbled with Pulse, Pulp, and some of the RSS feed aggregators, but they aren't the same. I don't interact with those apps like I do with Flipboard.
post #44 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

You probably don't care since your main point seems to be just insulting the author in some way or another but ...

"The author" has a long and well established history as a humorous writer when commenting on the Dilbert-esque human side of Silicon Valley. His recent attempt to reinvent himself as a more serious writer fails miserably when he cannot get the basic tech terminology right. He's as bad as Wu and company in that way.

Quote:
The iPad is a textbook "think client" computer in many ways.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_client

I completely disagree. The iPad doesn't even fit the Wikipedia article description of thin client computing you cite. There is no central server to do it's processing via a client-server interface only, it's not a simplified display device, it can operate just fine when disconnected from the network for apps designed to work stand alone.

I am actively engaged in cloud and cloud client research and thin clients are one of the options that many folks think is where it's all headed. We have collaborating researchers who are strong thin client advocates, but when they are given real-world task-loads to test they keep coming back with abhorrent results, and they are getting significant VMWare and Cisco assistance. The iPad has served as a wonderful moderately powered fat-client counter example for these guys.

Thin clients rely (as much as it is humanly possible to engineer) on the remote host system to do it's work, really only handling the task of trying to optimize the display path. They require continuous connectivity with the host server(s). iPad is the terminal opposite of that, it is a classic fat client just like laptop and desktop computers are. Just because it isn't yet considered a totally independent platform as far as transferring some content does not change where ALL the processing is done -- on board.

Thin clients fail because they need bandwidth to do everything, and the latency of UI inputs gets in the way unless the UI is as latency tolerant as good old fashioned command line. You can design a very narrowly focused, very local, system that works as a thin client as long as you don't need to transfer much data or have highly responsive interfaces. Again the exact opposite way an iPad operates. There is a ton of research on what makes for a bad thin client and business IT rags are ignoring all of it because when you ignore the reduction in workflow efficiency the bean counting looks good.

Thin client won't work in the wild where an iPad goes, for the same reasons thin clients have failed in general purpose rollouts ever since the term was invented -- latency and bandwidth. If the underlying problems aren't fixed, nobody can expect a different outcome.
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post #45 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

At least it wasn't the dominatrix position. That would have been hard to explain.



You really are a dirty old man, aren't you?

Yeah, your point?
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
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post #46 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacto Joe View Post

BTW, has anyone besides me, when using their old computer, found themselves reaching out to do something by touching the monitor?

It's a really weird feeling....

That happened to me after I played with the iPad in the Apple Store for all of ten minutes! I couldn't believe it.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #47 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

That happened to me after I played with the iPad in the Apple Store for all of ten minutes! I couldn't believe it.

Trust me. For the generation of kids growing up with iPads, it's all done. Fin. The keyboard and mouse. It'll be like punch cards and tape drives to us.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #48 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lochias View Post

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Not a Citrix thin client? A fat client? Not a client? What?

If you have some point to make, why not give us an explanation that actually makes it?

WTF are you getting on about? Do we have to give full definitions for everything in the days of wikipedia and google searches? Geez, show a little initiative and look something up and say whether you agree or disagree based on that rather than whining because you can't be bothered to understand playing field.

Running a Citrix app doesn't make a platform a thin client. I have PCs and Macs that run Citrix too, I don't think anyone would call them thin clients. Hell the Citrix client app interfacing with the remote application server is running as a local fat application! When I connect to a remote cluster controller via X11, the X11 content is served from that remote machine, but I'm still running the X11 interface as a fat app locally.

Thick vs fat client is about the capabilities of the platform. If a platform does onboard general application processing and have large primary and secondary storage capability, its fat. Thats more than a few dozen MB of non-graphics dedicated RAM and any generally usable GB of HD/SSD in the current hardware generation and an OS that lets you chose what programs to run.

Smart phones are fat clients for heavens sake! Skimpy ones, but fat nonetheless. They are useful even when out of all network connectivity, a thin client would just sit there, useless.
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post #49 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

I haven't touched my old MacBook for a couple of months, didn't even bother bringing with me on my last vacation. In a few months, I will probably donate it to charity.

With apologies to "Shrek" ......... "pick me, pick me, pick me " .......
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See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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post #50 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

At least it wasn't the dominatrix position. That would have been hard to explain.



You really are a dirty old man, aren't you?

I don't agree .... he's not that old ....
See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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post #51 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Yeah, your point?

Oh, none. Just an observation!

Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

I don't agree .... he's not that old ....

Real dirty old men get an early start.
Please don't be insane.
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post #52 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by poke View Post

I think the 'hardware keyboard' thing is overblown. Typing hasn't been a popular activity for long. Less than a generation ago everything was handwritten. Most people aren't fast typists and have no need to be. Onscreen keyboards are 'good enough.' There's certainly not such a strong need for a hardware keyboard that you'd do something as absurd as attaching one to the screen and switching to indirect control rather than touch because you then have to place the thing on your lap or a desk. If you look at it that way - would I sacrifice the iPad's qualities for these minuscule advantages a laptop/desktop form factor gives me in some situations? - I think it's obvious the tablet form factor will win out and in a big way.

Good point... what I would like to know is why I can't adjust the space between the keys on the virtual keyboard? I mean, it's a virtual keyboard, why is it so stultified? I have huge fingers and typing on those puny iPhone & iPad virtual keyboards are really difficult. I'm constantly hitting adjacent keys, nearly on every character. The software feedback from the strike on the key to the display of the character is still a bit slow but it's manageable, I think. And it will probably improve with time and iOS updates.

What the iPad & iPhone soft keyboard needs is the ability to provide a minor level of customization for each individual user. If I could increase the space between the keys, it would really help (even if that meant I had to delete a function key that rarely if ever gets used).
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post #53 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

The iPad isn't cannibalizing the iPod Touch because you cannot fit an iPad in your pocket.

That, and the iPod Touch is cheaper. The price and size hit the early teenager demographic squarely.

Thompson
post #54 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobrik View Post

They don't have to "license" Android, Android is open source, so anyone can start using it in their devices without making a "licensing deal" (or any other deal) with Google. Or am I missing something?

They have to license it and agree to terms of use but the license does not include royalties. They are also allowed to modify the code to suit their needs. Anyone can download and fiddle around with the code but to sell products under the Android brand you need to license it.

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post #55 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

They have to license it and agree to terms of use but the license does not include royalties. They are also allowed to modify the code to suit their needs. Anyone can download and fiddle around with the code but to sell products under the Android brand you need to license it.

There was an article just this past week about how few are abiding by the GPL. Ill try to dig that up.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #56 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

There was an article just this past week about how few are abiding by the GPL. I’ll try to dig that up.

Apache 2 and GPLv2 among other licensing are involved but apparently no one is being very strict about it.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #57 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

I had a similar experience. The first time I tried a friend's Kindle I started touching the screen. I looked at him quizzically after nothing happened. He was shaking his head. "Nah, you have to use the buttons on the side." I didn't even notice them.

As I mentioned earlier, these experiences irrevocably alter the way I look at all computing devices.

A matte touch device would be even better.
post #58 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Oh, none. Just an observation!



Real dirty old men get an early start.

Yeah, I've been at it for over 60 years... "but we were just playing doctor"...
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
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post #59 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

Good point... what I would like to know is why I can't adjust the space between the keys on the virtual keyboard? I mean, it's a virtual keyboard, why is it so stultified? I have huge fingers and typing on those puny iPhone & iPad virtual keyboards are really difficult. I'm constantly hitting adjacent keys, nearly on every character. The software feedback from the strike on the key to the display of the character is still a bit slow but it's manageable, I think. And it will probably improve with time and iOS updates.

What the iPad & iPhone soft keyboard needs is the ability to provide a minor level of customization for each individual user. If I could increase the space between the keys, it would really help (even if that meant I had to delete a function key that rarely if ever gets used).

I agree with this! I have small hands, fat fingers... and a thick head

The user should be able to customize the kb size and spacing on a system-wide and on an application level.

Customization could include things like:

-- key size
-- key spacing
-- key content
-- key arrangement
-- split keyboards (great for thumb typing)

One thing that would be interesting to experiment with (on the iPad) would be:

-- rest the thumbs and fingers rest on the keyboard (display) rather than hover over the home row
-- home row would be defined by where the hands were resting (the iPad recognizes 11 concurrent touches)
-- by definition, the keyboard would fit your hands
-- typing would be an up-down motion rather that a down-up motion
-- or typing could be a slightly harder (larger area) press (down-up)
-- non-home row keys could be detected with a much smaller (faster) motion than with a conventional kb

an example of the latter: an up-down (or sliding) motion from the J key, directed slightly to the left and away from you (then returned to the J position) would be a key press of the U key -- similar towards you would be the N key.

The range of movement could be an adjustable setting and/or, the keyboard could learn the way you type.

You could get to the point that very slight wiggles and slightly harder (bigger/longer) presses would allow very fast typing speeds with very little effort,

I suspect it would be a lot better for carpel tunnel and other physical complaints to have the fingers and palms resting on the surface.

So, the future of data entry may be as simple as just wiggling your fingers
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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post #60 of 65
"Microsoft is also believed to be attempting a second shot at launching tablets running Windows 7 at CES."

I really hope this is true. Another Windows 7 Stale, I mean, Slate, would be my favorite Ballmer keynote scenario. I'd love to see the look on Ballmer's face when he does the demo. He looked like a kicked dog last January when he quietly, timidly, apologetically, demoed the HP Slate. As though he were expecting another swift kick.

Well, he got that second kick. iPad 1 was announced just days after CES ended, and most of the wannabes ran straight back to the drawing board. (On second through, they straight back to the copy machine.) Others simply gave up and started writing iPad apps.

My next-favorite scenario would be Ballmer demoing an all-new "slate" version of Windows Phone 7 on a pad computer. It would be hilarious to see what his marketing department calls it. He has already said, on the record, that "It's called Windows."

So would it be "Windows Phone 7 Slate Edition"? No. Not unless there is a phone built into the stale. I mean slate. How about "Windows 7 For Tablets"? No. If it really is a tablet-friendly version of Windows Phone 7, then it isn't #7 of anything. Windows Phone 7 itself a 1.0 release (and, ironically, it's not like Windows at all.)

So whatever Ballmer demoes at CES will be just fine by me. He either bangs his head against the same Windows Slate brick wall, or he falls down the steep, dark staircase of pad computing that isn't just Windows 7 crammed into a smaller screen. Flip a coin, Ballmer.

Either way I'll be happy. Because it's a lose-lose situation for Ballmer. Another Windows 7 slate will trigger a barrage of tomatoes from the audience. And it will instantly wave a huge red flag for investors. The Ballmer-still-doesn't-get-it red flag.

On the other hand, an all-new variant of Windows Phone 7 will yank Microsoft all the way back to square one. No backward compatibility with Windows Mobile 6 (R.I.P). No compatibility with Windows 7 (or Vista for that matter). Few if any 3rd party apps (even after Microsoft has openly bribed developers). And zero infrastructure. Zune Market? What's a Zune? It will be another shot in the dark for Microsoft. And how much ammo do they have left?

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post #61 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Real dirty old men get an early start.

Lucky them!
See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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post #62 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Agreed.



Please.
http://www.scottevest.com/v3_store/R...n-Jacket.shtml


Well now, that just tipped the scales, seriously I didn't really want to carry a bag just for the iPad, now I wont!
post #63 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

WTF are you getting on about? Do we have to give full definitions for everything in the days of wikipedia and google searches? Geez, show a little initiative and look something up and say whether you agree or disagree based on that rather than whining because you can't be bothered to understand playing field.

Running a Citrix app doesn't make a platform a thin client. I have PCs and Macs that run Citrix too, I don't think anyone would call them thin clients. Hell the Citrix client app interfacing with the remote application server is running as a local fat application! When I connect to a remote cluster controller via X11, the X11 content is served from that remote machine, but I'm still running the X11 interface as a fat app locally.

Thick vs fat client is about the capabilities of the platform. If a platform does onboard general application processing and have large primary and secondary storage capability, its fat. Thats more than a few dozen MB of non-graphics dedicated RAM and any generally usable GB of HD/SSD in the current hardware generation and an OS that lets you chose what programs to run.

Smart phones are fat clients for heavens sake! Skimpy ones, but fat nonetheless. They are useful even when out of all network connectivity, a thin client would just sit there, useless.

He shouldn't have to search in order to know what someone said when contradicting someone else's statement. Beside you rag on him for not searching for the def, then you provide a basic one, so by get in his face?
post #64 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDrake View Post

He shouldn't have to search in order to know what someone said when contradicting someone else's statement. Beside you rag on him for not searching for the def, then you provide a basic one, so by get in his face?

I need you to define every word you just wrote because, according to you, one shouldnt have to search in order to know what someone said when contradicting someone else's statement. See how silly that is? If you think the OP thought thin client referred to the physical thinness of the device and not the longstanding, well-defined tech term as stated on this tech forum then please point it out to us.
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post #65 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by poke View Post

I honestly think tablets will displace PCs (laptops and desktops) completely and within a short time frame. In retrospect, I think the desktop and laptop form factors are terrible. When I see people using laptops now, it looks awkward. They're hunched over it. If they have the computer on their lap, the screen is pointing at their stomach. Having a keyboard attached to the screen is not very practical. The indirect interaction of a mouse or trackpad feels like a definite step backwards after using an iOS device for a long time. I don't buy arguments from precision either. Nobody needs to be pixel precise unless they're doing pixel art.

I think the 'hardware keyboard' thing is overblown. Typing hasn't been a popular activity for long. Less than a generation ago everything was handwritten. Most people aren't fast typists and have no need to be. Onscreen keyboards are 'good enough.' There's certainly not such a strong need for a hardware keyboard that you'd do something as absurd as attaching one to the screen and switching to indirect control rather than touch because you then have to place the thing on your lap or a desk. If you look at it that way - would I sacrifice the iPad's qualities for these minuscule advantages a laptop/desktop form factor gives me in some situations? - I think it's obvious the tablet form factor will win out and in a big way.

Desktops have already been on the way out. The demand for more processing power and storage has started to plateau. Most tasks done on computers make sense for multitouch interaction: video editing, photo editing, presentations, spreadsheets, equation editing, document layout, drawing, 3d modelling, etc. Even programming could work; multitouch tablets could see visual programming or structure editors making a comeback (the problem always was speed of interaction). Perhaps some of these tasks would benefit from a larger screen. More memory and faster CPUs are a given and the one thing we know will come in the future. But I see no reason they'd somehow benefit from an attached hardware keyboard and an indirect method of interaction.

I think 2011 is going to be the iPad's big year and a lot of people are going to wake up and realise there's really nothing this form factor can't do and, in many cases, do it much better than existing devices. I think people are vastly underestimate the huge psychological difference between the way we interact with our software now - where, if you want to do something, you first have to use the mouse to move the cursor to the button or switch and only then can you press it - and the way you do it on the iPad (just go ahead and press it). And I think they vastly overestimate the need for a hardware keyboard (as they did with the iPhone; unsurprising, really, since all these reviews and opinion pieces are written by people who are paid by the word).

Have you ever seen somebody doing computer based tasks for their employer? Check it out sometime. You'll probably notice that text entry is a large part of their work.
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