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Spain Smoking Ban - Page 5

post #161 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

NYC to ban smoking in public places

And yet pollution from coal plants, factories, vehicles etc are just fine and they seriously damage people, including premature deaths and on a huge scale.
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #162 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

And yet pollution from coal plants, factories, vehicles etc are just fine and they seriously damage people, including premature deaths and on a huge scale.

Really? Where?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #163 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Really? Where?

The airs full of it. Here's a taste from wiki-

"Epidemiological studies suggest that more than 500,000 Americans die each year from cardiopulmonary disease linked to breathing fine particle air pollution. . ."[15] A study by the University of Birmingham has shown a strong correlation between pneumonia related deaths and air pollution from motor vehicles.[16] Worldwide more deaths per year are linked to air pollution than to automobile accidents.[citation needed] Published in 2005 suggests that 310,000 Europeans die from air pollution annually.[citation needed] Causes of deaths include aggravated asthma, emphysema, lung and heart diseases, and respiratory allergies.[citation needed] The US EPA estimates that a proposed set of changes in diesel engine technology (Tier 2) could result in 12,000 fewer premature mortalities, 15,000 fewer heart attacks, 6,000 fewer emergency room visits by children with asthma, and 8,900 fewer respiratory-related hospital admissions each year in the United States."
~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_pollution

I think there are about 1 million deaths a year from vehicle accidents. The wiki article says that there are about 2.4 million deaths a year from pollution.

Add in global warming and billions will die.
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #164 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

The airs full of it. Here's a taste from wiki-

"Epidemiological studies suggest that more than 500,000 Americans die each year from cardiopulmonary disease linked to breathing fine particle air pollution. . .

I'll focus on the US because those stats are pretty easily available. Let's see how this 500,000 works with the numbers from the CDC. Each year about 2.4M Americans die. This is roughly broken down as follows:

Heart disease: 616,067
Quote:
Cancer: 562,875
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 135,952
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 127,924
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 123,706
Alzheimer's disease: 74,632
Diabetes: 71,382
Influenza and Pneumonia: 52,717
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 46,448
Septicemia: 34,828

The claim is that "500,000 Americans die each year from cardiopulmonary disease linked to breathing fine particle air pollution." From the list above, the number of deaths that might be in the category of cardiopulmonary disease would be:

Quote:
Heart disease: 616,067
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 127,924

For a total of 743,991...so the claim is that 67% of those who die from these two categories (21% of every death in the US each year) are a result of breathing fine particle air pollution? And there are no other causes? It's the breathing fine particle air pollution that causes these deaths?

The link that number comes says:

Quote:
A previously unrecognized group of air pollutants could have effects remarkably similar to harmful substances found in tobacco smoke

Quote:
The discovery could help explain the long-standing medical mystery of why non-smokers develop tobacco-related diseases like lung cancer

Quote:
"Free radicals from tobacco smoke have long been suspected of having extremely harmful effects on the body," Dellinger said. "Based on our work, we now know that free radicals similar to those in cigarettes are also found in airborne fine particles and potentially can cause many of the same life-threatening conditions.

Quote:
Once PFRs are inhaled, Dellinger suspects they are absorbed into the lungs and other tissues where they contribute to DNA and other cellular damage. Epidemiological studies suggest that more than 500,000 Americans die each year from cardiopulmonary disease linked to breathing fine particle air pollution, he says. About 10 to 15 percent of lung cancers are diagnosed in nonsmokers, according to the American Cancer Society. However, Dellinger stresses additional research is necessary before scientists can definitely link airborne PFRs to these diseases.

In short we have some correlations and suspicions and suppositions but nothing definitive.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #165 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I'll focus on the US because those stats are pretty easily available. Let's see how this 500,000 works with the numbers from the CDC. Each year about 2.4M Americans die. This is roughly broken down as follows:

Heart disease: 616,067


The claim is that "500,000 Americans die each year from cardiopulmonary disease linked to breathing fine particle air pollution." From the list above, the number of deaths that might be in the category of cardiopulmonary disease would be:



For a total of 743,991...so the claim is that 67% of those who die from these two categories (21% of every death in the US each year) are a result of breathing fine particle air pollution? And there are no other causes? It's the breathing fine particle air pollution that causes these deaths?

The link that number comes says:

I don't have time now to go over this, but pollution prematurely kills a lot of people.
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #166 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I don't have time now to go over this, but pollution prematurely kills a lot of people.

I'm sure it does. But I'll wait for evidence to support this claim. You'll probably want to try and objectively quantify what "premature" and "a lot" mean.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #167 of 168
Spain shutting down restaurant for defying smoking ban

Quote:
Madrid, Spain (CNN) -- Authorities on Thursday ordered the closure of a restaurant for repeatedly violating the nation's tough new anti-smoking law, the first such shutdown in Spain, officials told CNN.
The owner of the restaurant -- El Asador Guadalmina near the popular southern Mediterranean resort of Marbella -- earlier this week defiantly told Spanish media he would not pay a nearly $200,000 fine for allowing clients to smoke in his locale, despite the new law which prohibits smoking in all indoor bars and restaurants.
"This restaurant has been in non-compliance since the law began," said a spokesman for Spain's national health ministry. "From what we know, this is the first case in the country" of a restaurant closure order.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #168 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Sounds a lot like what's happened in the US (in certain parts) over the last 10 years or so. Though I think any smoking bans in movies and TV have actually been relaxed, which is interesting.

My thoughts on this:

1. I hate smoking. I hate being around it. I grew up with a smoking parent and learned to despise it. I would avoid restaurants that did not have a good smoking/non-smoking section separation.

2. I believe business owners (restaurants, bars, etc.) should have property rights and should be allowed to decide for themselves what customers they wish to cater to. They should be allowed to decide if they want to allow smokers or not or both. Going to a restaurant or bar is a not a right. If the place allows smokers and you despise it as much as I do, you don't go there.

3. Places where people are in attendance in a less voluntary situation (e.g., public schools with little kiddies sitting there while teachers smoke) is probably a little different case.

Thanks for your sharing! It's quite useful, Now I understand more about it.
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