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Give America back if you truly believe in Liberty.

Poll Results: Do you support giving America back to the native population?

Poll expired: Dec 24, 2012  
  • 16% (1)
    Yes
  • 83% (5)
    No
6 Total Votes  
post #1 of 50
Thread Starter 
If you believe in liberty then support giving America back to the Native American's et al. The natives can decide who stays or goes and what to do with their land. For recompense Americans could offer to guard its borders if the natives want that. Europeans who were complicit in the takeover would have to accept back the whites and offer citizenship to blacks and if blacks wished, help them to resettle Africa.
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post #2 of 50
Thread Starter 
So stealing is ok with Tallest Skil?

You surely know your in possession of stolen goods, or that many Americans are?
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post #3 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

So stealing is ok with Tallest Skil?

You surely know your in possession of stolen goods, or that many Americans are?



Public poll. I read that before submitting and knew it'd be good for a laugh.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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post #4 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post



Public poll. I read that before submitting and knew it'd be good for a laugh.

In that case we can dismiss your vote as void. Therefore it's still 1-0.
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post #5 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

In that case we can dismiss your vote as void. Therefore it's still 1-0.

*facepalm*

Knew that the poll being PUBLIC was good for a laugh. My vote stands. Your position is absolutely ludicrous.

This is why I don't post in the political forums; you get freaking planned human extinctionists over here.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #6 of 50
Well, he set up a rather simplistic false dilemma on top of a rather complicated and nuanced issue.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #7 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Well, he set up a rather simplistic false dilemma on top of a rather complicated and nuanced issue.

It's not comPlicated to people all over the world. I would have thoughts you'd want to protect their property rights. Guess not though.
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post #8 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

*facepalm*

Knew that the poll being PUBLIC was good for a laugh. My vote stands. Your position is absolutely ludicrous.

This is why I don't post in the political forums; you get freaking planned human extinctionists over here.

LOl 2. Natives were nearly exterminated.
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post #9 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I would have thoughts you'd want to protect their property rights.

I certainly do. But you have setup a false dilemma here and the issue is more complicate than you care to admit.

The first complication is determining who owned what (the entire US was not likely owned by the native Americans...and perhaps someone before them owned it.)

Second, by what means was ownership transferred? You assume it was all by forced. This isn't necessarily true.

Third, who, at this point, would be the recipient of the give back.

Fourth, give back is not the only solution.

And these are only the most obvious issues that must be resolved. Undoubtedly there would be additional (at least derivative) issues to be sorted out.

So I most certainly do support property rights. This is certainly an interesting and worthwhile discussion to have, but you have not presented a serious opening for a serious debate.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #10 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I certainly do. But you have setup a false dilemma here and the issue is more complicate than you care to admit.

The first complication is determining who owned what (the entire US was not likely owned by the native Americans...and perhaps someone before them owned it.)

Second, by what means was ownership transferred? You assume it was all by forced. This isn't necessarily true.

Third, who, at this point, would be the recipient of the give back.

Fourth, give back is not the only solution.

And these are only the most obvious issues that must be resolved. Undoubtedly there would be additional (at least derivative) issues to be sorted out.

So I most certainly do support property rights. This is certainly an interesting and worthwhile discussion to have, but you have not presented a serious opening for a serious debate.

I think your playing the "get out of it card". There's no truth in denying the native Americans there land and way of life. America was founded on terrorism.

I wish I was a scholar but I'm not stupid.
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post #11 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I think your playing the "get out of it card".

What? What is that?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

There's no truth in denying the native Americans there land and way of life.

I don't believe I did.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

America was founded on terrorism.

That's a rather broad and strong statement.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #12 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

What? What is that?




I don't believe I did.




That's a rather broad and strong statement.

It's the truth.
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post #13 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

It's the truth.

Well "truth" is a funny thing...especially regarding very broad, ill-defined statements about large, long-term things that happened centuries ago involving many different circumstances, issues and events.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #14 of 50
Good luck getting rational thought out of people who are genetically diseased to pursue nothing but the glory of their own ego, status and power at the expense of everyone else.

You'll be hard pressed to even get them to acknowledge that Israel is committing the very same acts of terrorism and oppression aginst the lands indigenous population to this very day.
post #15 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Well "truth" is a funny thing...especially regarding very broad, ill-defined statements about large, long-term things that happened centuries ago involving many different circumstances, issues and events.

The same can be said of slavery, in the UK at least.

How about we give just half back if there's any uncertainty?
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post #16 of 50
I don't give a fuck that this is a public poll. It's a stupid question. The descendants of those who suffered at the hands of colonials, and later Americans, should be given every opportunity everyone else in this country has to succeed. Extra attention should be paid to make sure they don't suffer from disease or poverty. But it's not the current living Native Americans who were slaughtered--neither their parents, nor their grandparents. And it's not the current generation of Americans who performed those heinous crimes--neither their parents, nor their grandparents.

You can't undo one injustice by doing another to a different group who were not responsible for the initial injustice in the first place.

Thank the cosmos we don't live by the terrible work of obscene fiction (otherwise known as Bible) and are mandated to suffer for the sins of our fathers. It's never right nor just to punish a child for the misdeeds of an ancestor. Never.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #17 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I don't give a fuck that this is a public poll. It's a stupid question. The descendants of those who suffered at the hands of colonials, and later Americans, should be given every opportunity everyone else in this country has to succeed. Extra attention should be paid to make sure they don't suffer from disease or poverty. But it's not the current living Native Americans who were slaughtered--neither their parents, nor their grandparents. And it's not the current generation of Americans who performed those heinous crimes--neither their parents, nor their grandparents.

You can't undo one injustice by doing another to a different group who were not responsible for the initial injustice in the first place.

Thank the cosmos we don't live by the terrible work of obscene fiction (otherwise known as Bible) and are mandated to suffer for the sins of our fathers. It's never right nor just to punish a child for the misdeeds of an ancestor. Never.

So once no one's left alive let's just forget about it. That's effectively what you're saying. I don't think the Native Americans have forgotten about it. There the most sick and impoverished group of Americans by far and I doubt they're content with that. Indeed they want their country back, but you won't give it to them or make an effort to try to give it back to them because you've washed your hands of the matter so that you and your loved ones won't have to take any action that interferes with your life.

It's not necessarily a punishment either. To give back something that you know is stolen can and should be a willing act.

Obviously this would have to happen so as to cause the least amount of pain as possible to those heading back to their own countries. That's why it would probably take about 20 or 30 years or so to complete. I'm sure the Native Americans would try to be accommodating given how long they've already suffered and how noble and non materialistic they are as a people.

Of course it'll never happen without a movement of willing European Americans and Europeans. At least if you fought for it you could tell you children that you tried to give back something that was stolen even though you hadn't directly stole it yourself.
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post #18 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

So once no one's left alive let's just forget about it. That's effectively what you're saying.

No, it's not. I'm saying don't pile more injustices on top of previous ones. The descendants of those who committed the vile acts did not commit the vile acts. It's unquestionably wrong to expect them to be punished for the sins of their ancestors.

Quote:
I don't think the Native Americans have forgotten about it. There the most sick and impoverished group of Americans by far and I doubt they're content with that.

It's wrong they are so impoverished. They should be given every extra advantage they can get--basic needs, healthcare, and education.

Quote:
Indeed they want their country back

Evidence? All of them? Blanket asinine statement much?
Quote:
, but you won't give it to them or make an effort to try to give it back to them because you've washed your hands of the matter so that you and your loved ones won't have to take any action that interferes with your life.

Me and my loved ones immigrated to this country well after the slaughter was complete. Even if my great-great-grandfather collected Native American scalps, I didn't. And those Native Americans living here today were not rounded up and slaughtered, either. Again, they should be given every advantage possible, but what you demand is a great injustice on millions of innocent people who through the accident of birth happen to have ancestors who did terrible things.

Quote:
It's not necessarily a punishment either.

Bullshit. Uprooting over 300 million people because some of their ancestors did atrocious things is nothing but a punishment.

Quote:
To give back something that you know is stolen can and should be a willing act.

Should we tear down and take with us every single thing we built, too? You know, to leave it in as close a condition as possible to how it was taken.

This thread is so not serious it's insane.

Quote:
[Obviously this would have to happen so as to cause the least amount of pain as possible to those heading back to their own countries. That's why it would probably take about 20 or 30 years or so to complete. I'm sure the Native Americans would try to be accommodating given how long they've already suffered and how noble and non materialistic they are as a people.

Of course it'll never happen without a movement of willing European Americans and Europeans. At least if you fought for it you could tell you children that you tried to give back something that was stolen even though you hadn't directly stole it yourself.

Blah blah blah. If you believe in liberty, you believe that no individual should have to pay for the crimes of another. Period. End of story. You're patently ridiculous.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #19 of 50
I've made my point abundantly clear. I'm not wavering on this issue. I find the entire thread silly and I'll be commenting here no further. Just a head's up for you.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #20 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

No, it's not. I'm saying don't pile more injustices on top of previous ones. The descendants of those who committed the vile acts did not commit the vile acts. It's unquestionably wrong to expect them to be punished for the sins of their ancestors.


It's wrong they are so impoverished. They should be given every extra advantage they can get--basic needs, healthcare, and education.


Evidence? All of them? Blanket asinine statement much?

Me and my loved ones immigrated to this country well after the slaughter was complete. Even if my great-great-grandfather collected Native American scalps, I didn't. And those Native Americans living here today were not rounded up and slaughtered, either. Again, they should be given every advantage possible, but what you demand is a great injustice on millions of innocent people who through the accident of birth happen to have ancestors who did terrible things.


Bullshit. Uprooting over 300 million people because some of their ancestors did atrocious things is nothing but a punishment.


Should we tear down and take with us every single thing we built, too? You know, to leave it in as close a condition as possible to how it was taken.

This thread is so not serious it's insane.



Blah blah blah. If you believe in liberty, you believe that no individual should have to pay for the crimes of another. Period. End of story. You're patently ridiculous.

The Native Americans have never stopped trying to get their country back. They've been denied, denied, denied in most respects. They themselves don't have the power to take it back but you can be sure that if they could in a peaceful and harmonious way they would take that option first. They'd all die if they were to be violent, defeating the purpose.

How about we give them half back? Would that be too much to ask too. Maybe just a tenth even? Would that still be punishing people.

This really isn't ridiculous either. It's a very serious issue that has very real solutions if people want to try and make up for the wrongs that have happened. Your clearly willing to give something, I'm saying we could give much more and try and make it as good an experience for everyone that is possible. It takes thought and willingness though and trying to change the outlook of those that wouldn't happily give anything, indeed some would happily take even more from them.
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post #21 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

If you believe in liberty then support giving America back to the Native American's et al. The natives can decide who stays or goes and what to do with their land. For recompense Americans could offer to guard its borders if the natives want that. Europeans who were complicit in the takeover would have to accept back the whites and offer citizenship to blacks and if blacks wished, help them to resettle Africa.

It might be interesting if we returned all "native" lands to the indigenous peoples...the world map would be vastly different. Just think of the thousands of years of conflicts in Europe...where do you draw the borders???

If you studied history, you would know that the natives in the western hemisphere were not always friendly towards each other.
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post #22 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

It might be interesting if we returned all "native" lands to the indigenous peoples...the world map would be vastly different. Just think of the thousands of years of conflicts in Europe...where do you draw the borders???

If you studied history, you would know that the natives in the western hemisphere were not always friendly towards each other.

Most people are roughly where there from. Sure Europeans have spread themselves around Europe a bit but it doesn't even come close to what happened in the US.
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post #23 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Most people are roughly where there from. Sure Europeans have spread themselves around Europe a bit but it doesn't even come close to what happened in the US.

Oh, so let the Europeans keep their borders, but give all of the Americas back to their natives.

That's at least a quintuple standard.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #24 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Most people are roughly where there from. Sure Europeans have spread themselves around Europe a bit but it doesn't even come close to what happened in the US.

Northern Ireland, Bosque and Catalan, Kurds, Armenian, Palistinian....etc.....are just not in the mix then?
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post #25 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Northern Ireland, Bosque and Catalan, Kurds, Armenian, Palistinian....etc.....are just not in the mix then?

Palestine isn't in Europe.

Europe is pretty much much fine. Ask Europeans and see what they tell you. Ask native Americans and they'll tell you the complete opposite. This is just another feeble excuse not to do the right thing. Clearly you have no shame.
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post #26 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Palestine isn't in Europe.

Europe is pretty much much fine. Ask Europeans and see what they tell you. Ask native Americans and they'll tell you the complete opposite. This is just another feeble excuse not to do the right thing. Clearly you have no shame.

Goes back to my previous post. But if you want to restrict this argument to Europe...what about the ethnic cleansing when the former Yugoslavia broke up....Catalan and Bosque separatist in Spain, Northern Ireland IRA and Protestant...return NI to the Republic of Ireland. Weren't the Serbs displaced from Kosovo sometime in the 1400's??? Russia/Former Soviet Union also has some ethnic issues

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_...r_Soviet_Union
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post #27 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Europe is pretty much much fine. Ask Europeans and see what they tell you.

Right. If I go downstairs to the bar underneath my apartment and say that Catalans should not have independence then I might be taking a detour to the hospital.

I think Basques have a view too judging by the bombings we used to get here quite regularly one time. I heard some Irish feel the same and there's rumours the whole of Eastern Europe turned into a war zone for similar reasons one time.

I do think that the English should bugger off back to Schleswig-Holstein though and give the country back to the indigenous Celts: the Welsh. And the Scots and Irish I guess.
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #28 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Well "truth" is a funny thing...especially regarding very broad, ill-defined statements about large, long-term things that happened centuries ago involving many different circumstances, issues and events.

It is the truth. We broke every treaty we made with them ( and some of those were for land ). And time shouldn't make a difference. the principle is the same.
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post #29 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I've made my point abundantly clear. I'm not wavering on this issue. I find the entire thread silly and I'll be commenting here no further. Just a head's up for you.

I think it was to illustrate a point more than anything. Hands can tell me if I'm wrong.
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post #30 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I don't give a fuck that this is a public poll. It's a stupid question. The descendants of those who suffered at the hands of colonials, and later Americans, should be given every opportunity everyone else in this country has to succeed. Extra attention should be paid to make sure they don't suffer from disease or poverty. But it's not the current living Native Americans who were slaughtered--neither their parents, nor their grandparents. And it's not the current generation of Americans who performed those heinous crimes--neither their parents, nor their grandparents.

You can't undo one injustice by doing another to a different group who were not responsible for the initial injustice in the first place.

Thank the cosmos we don't live by the terrible work of obscene fiction (otherwise known as Bible) and are mandated to suffer for the sins of our fathers. It's never right nor just to punish a child for the misdeeds of an ancestor. Never.

No, it's not. I'm saying don't pile more injustices on top of previous ones. The descendants of those who committed the vile acts did not commit the vile acts. It's unquestionably wrong to expect them to be punished for the sins of their ancestors.


It's wrong they are so impoverished. They should be given every extra advantage they can get--basic needs, healthcare, and education.


Evidence? All of them? Blanket asinine statement much?

Me and my loved ones immigrated to this country well after the slaughter was complete. Even if my great-great-grandfather collected Native American scalps, I didn't. And those Native Americans living here today were not rounded up and slaughtered, either. Again, they should be given every advantage possible, but what you demand is a great injustice on millions of innocent people who through the accident of birth happen to have ancestors who did terrible things.


Bullshit. Uprooting over 300 million people because some of their ancestors did atrocious things is nothing but a punishment.


Should we tear down and take with us every single thing we built, too? You know, to leave it in as close a condition as possible to how it was taken.

This thread is so not serious it's insane.



Blah blah blah. If you believe in liberty, you believe that no individual should have to pay for the crimes of another. Period. End of story. You're patently ridiculous.

Except for one small part and the cussing I completely agree with these posts. I have nothing more to add either. Good posts BR.
NoahJ
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #31 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I think it was to illustrate a point more than anything. Hands can tell me if I'm wrong.

Yes, it is ironic that, particularly with MJ, but others too, that property rights comes so down on the list for Native Americans and how their support of a government who violated those property rights is so casually brushed under the carpet. Even today Native Americans fight to stop more of the little land they have used for toxic waste dumps and mining.
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post #32 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Yes, it is ironic that, particularly with MJ, but others too, that property rights comes so down on the list for Native Americans and how their support of a government who violated those property rights is so casually brushed under the carpet. Even today Native Americans fight to stop more of the little land they have used for toxic waste dumps and mining.

I would greatly appreciate you not mis-representing my position on this with your own interpretation of it. Minimally it is rude, worse, simply lying.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #33 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Yes, it is ironic that, particularly with MJ, but others too, that property rights comes so down on the list for Native Americans and how their support of a government who violated those property rights is so casually brushed under the carpet. Even today Native Americans fight to stop more of the little land they have used for toxic waste dumps and mining.

I'm not one of the property rights nuts here. If you have a problem with someone's position on property rights, I suggest you make a thread dealing with real situations instead of ridiculous contrived ones that have nothing to do with reality.

Don't try to prove your points with a hyperbolic, insane example.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #34 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Goes back to my previous post. But if you want to restrict this argument to Europe...what about the ethnic cleansing when the former Yugoslavia broke up....Catalan and Bosque separatist in Spain, Northern Ireland IRA and Protestant...return NI to the Republic of Ireland. Weren't the Serbs displaced from Kosovo sometime in the 1400's??? Russia/Former Soviet Union also has some ethnic issues

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_...r_Soviet_Union

LOL there not even close to the Native Americans situation. The Native Americans were the whole of a population (in many areas) from the US to Canada who weren't fighting amongst themselves to have or not to have their land taken. They were completely attacked from outside that group, from people who had never lived there and have had treaties drawn up which have been and still are violated.
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post #35 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I would greatly appreciate you not mis-representing my position on this with your own interpretation of it. Minimally it is rude, worse, simply lying.

OK so Native Americans only have a tinsy little bit of the US to make a valid claim over that their property rights were abused? I don't think so. And if invaders came to the US with weapons far superior to Americas and you made deals with them over land, please don't tell me that you wouldn't try to kill those invaders and rip up the paper from any of those deals.
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post #36 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I'm not one of the property rights nuts here. If you have a problem with someone's position on property rights, I suggest you make a thread dealing with real situations instead of ridiculous contrived ones that have nothing to do with reality.

Don't try to prove your points with a hyperbolic, insane example.

In a sane world it wouldn't be an insane example.
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #37 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

OK so Native Americans only have a tinsy little bit of the US to make a valid claim over that their property rights were abused?

I've said nor implied any such thing. You are implying that I consider some group of people's property rights less valuable than some other group. I have neither said or implied this at all. I've merely addressed your overly simplistic poll, opening post and tried to point out the complexity of resolving the issue which you have amateurishly, superficially and ham-handedly tried to bring to light.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #38 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

LOL there not even close to the Native Americans situation. The Native Americans were the whole of a population (in many areas) from the US to Canada who weren't fighting amongst themselves to have or not to have their land taken. They were completely attacked from outside that group, from people who had never lived there and have had treaties drawn up which have been and still are violated.

It wasn't all peace and harmony in the New World. The Incas, Mayas and Aztecs were not friendly neighbors. Eastern NAmerica was not all was peaceful either...although the Iroquois Confederacy is thought to have had an influence on the Articles of Confederation in the US there were still conflicts with other distant tribes.

Quote:
Long-distance trading did not prevent warfare among the indigenous peoples. For instance, archaeology and the tribes' oral histories have contributed to an understanding that the Iroquois' conducted invasions and warfare about 1200 CE against tribes in the Ohio River area of present-day Kentucky. Finally they drove many to migrate west to their historically traditional lands west of the Mississippi River. Tribes originating in the Ohio Valley who moved west included the Osage, Kaw, Ponca and Omaha people. By the mid-17th century, they had resettled in their historical lands in present-day Kansas, Nebraska, Arkansas and Oklahoma. The Osage warred with native Caddo-speaking Native Americans, displacing them in turn by the mid-18th century and dominating their new historical territories.[32]

@ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_...#Pre-Columbian

OBTW, sego is right, when are the Brits leaving...returning the lands to the Saxons who took it from the Celts, Scotts and Welsh.....

Through out human history, there were conquest, assimilation or annihilation or displacement of indigenous populations....how far back in history do you go and will it change anything to "give it back?

Some examples from Asia...China and Tibet, China and Taiwan(Formosa), Japan and Okinawa.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #39 of 50
Thread Starter 
Bollocks!

I've never seen you post so many excuses for your government and this issue is not nuanced at all. A bunch of terrorist invaders killed people and stole their land. You can dance around it all day but it won't hide where your sympathies lie.
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #40 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Bollocks!

I've never seen you post so many excuses for your government and this issue is not nuanced at all. A bunch of terrorist invaders killed people and stole their land. You can dance around it all day but it won't hide where your sympathies lie.

Just out of curiosity, where do YOU live? If you care so much about this, start making America a worse place to live so that people move. You're not going to get 900 million people suddenly get up and leave two continents. It's complete idiocy.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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