or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPad › RIM PlayBook unlikely to match Apple iPad without larger battery - report
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

RIM PlayBook unlikely to match Apple iPad without larger battery - report

post #1 of 56
Thread Starter 
Research in Motion's forthcoming PlayBook tablet is said to be "unlikely" to match the 10-plus-hour battery life of Apple's iPad, and could even struggle to meet the 6 hours of the Samsung Galaxy Tab without "significant engineering."

Analyst Shaw Wu with Kaufman Bros. said in a note to investors this week that his industry sources have indicated that RIM continues to experience major issues in developing its forthcoming PlayBook tablet, intended to take on Apple's iPad. He said he would be "very surprised" if the PlayBook manages to match the battery life of the iPad without using a larger battery.

Apple has an advantage over RIM, Wu said, because the iPad maker designs many of its own semiconductors, including the A4 processor that powers the iPad and iPhone 4. In addition, Apple makes its own battery chemistry, and software, allowing for power optimization that competitors like RIM cannot yet compete with.

Another potential problem noted by Wu is Adobe Flash, which he said could be a major factor in the battery life of the PlayBook. He noted that back in November, tests discovered that the new MacBook Air had its battery life significantly reduced when Adobe Flash was installed.

"It should be no surprise to anyone that our checks indicate Adobe is furiously working on reducing Flash's consumption of resources to make it a viable mobile platform vs. HTML5 that both Apple and Google are moving toward," he wrote.

Wu claims his sources indicated the "best" the PlayBook could hope for is to match the six hours of battery life offered by the Samsung Galaxy Tab, an Android-based device that launched last November. And even that would require "significant engineering," he said.

"The reason is that QNX wasn't originally designed for low-powered mobile environments but rather devices plugged into a wall socket (like networking equipment) or a car battery (like automobile control systems and stereos)," he wrote. "At the end of the day, we are glad RIM is working hard on improving battery life as it will be good for both customers and shareholders."

Wu's latest report is a follow-up to one he issued last week, in which he first revealed the alleged battery problems associated with the PlayBook. In that note to investors, he said the PlayBook gets just a "few hours" of uptime, faring worse than both the iPad and the Galaxy Tab.

RIM quickly shot back at Wu's rumors, and said its PlayBook would offer "superior performance with comparable battery life." The device is expected to launch in the first quarter of 2011.

"Any testing or observation of battery life to date by anyone outside of RIM would have been performed using pre-beta units that were built without power management implemented," RIM said in a statement. "RIM is on track with its schedule to optimize the BlackBerry PlayBook's battery life and looks forward to providing customers with a professional grade tablet that offers superior performance with comparable battery life."
post #2 of 56
You know, AI pays a lot of attention to RIM. It's a dying company. Let it die in peace. Go to the light!

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #3 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

You know, AI pays a lot of attention to RIM. It's a dying company. Let it die in peace. Go to the light!

Dying company? Funny.
post #4 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

You know, AI pays a lot of attention to RIM. It's a dying company. Let it die in peace. Go to the light!

RIM does have a loyal Blackberry following. With that in mind RIM reminds me of Apple in the 90s... resting on its laurels for too long and then doing its damnedest to try and stay current. The only difference to keep in mind is that RIM has always had a much larger following for their product than Apple had for Macs (percentages etc.).

That tells me that they are still a viable company... but they need a SJ to pull them out of the toilet...

(if nothing else RIM's Playbook will most likely be a big incentive for Adobe to get its game on...)
na na na na na...
Reply
na na na na na...
Reply
post #5 of 56
Better performance and comparable battery life eh? Better performance I can see, it is using a better CPU than the current iPad. Better battery life? I doubt it, no one seems to be able to touch Apple in that respect. I suspect both the performance and battery life bars will be trending upward with the iPad 2 anyway. This is the Pre all over again. So much hype, announced well in advance, and the CEO telling the world how great it is against year old hardware.
The key to enjoying these forums: User CP -> Edit Ignore List
Reply
The key to enjoying these forums: User CP -> Edit Ignore List
Reply
post #6 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple has an advantage over RIM, Wu said, because the iPad maker designs many of its own semiconductors, including the A4 processor that powers the iPad and iPhone 4. In addition, Apple makes its own battery chemistry, and software, allowing for power optimization that competitors like RIM cannot yet compete with.

Another potential problem noted by Wu is Adobe Flash.

I was gonna point out these two things, but I guess this analyst actually knows what he is talking about. I am actually surprised that Galaxy Tab has such a good battery life on, though I guess Samsung does manufacture a lot of Apple's parts and may know a thing or two about making power efficient chips.
--SHEFFmachine out
Da Bears!
Reply
--SHEFFmachine out
Da Bears!
Reply
post #7 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by HahaHaha321 View Post

Dying company? Funny.

Not to funny IMO. All the data I've seen shows RIM on a downward spiral.

And I personally doubt the Playbook is going to sell significantly. It's already been delayed once and pushed back until after the iPad starts selling in a few months. This fact alone will kill Playbook sales, regardless of the battery issue.
post #8 of 56
Is Adobe AIR HW accelerated over QNX? If not, then I expect it wont even match the Samsung Tab for a comparable battery size.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

You know, AI pays a lot of attention to RIM. It's a dying company. Let it die in peace. Go to the light!

They are stagnating but they have been growing YoY. They certainly need something solid or they will shrink, but saying they are dying sounds hyperbolific to me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HahaHaha321 View Post

Dying company? Funny.

Maybe its just me but your username seems like you dont expect to use it for for very long.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #9 of 56
Assuming Apple announces and releases the iPad 2 in the first half of 2011, I suspect that the Playbook will be outdated and outclassed (even more than it is now) before it's even released.
post #10 of 56
RIM have been doing a lot of boasting for a while now about a product that isn't even close to shipping. If this goes on much longer people are going to quit listening to them all together.

Talk is cheap. Quit telling us how great the Playbook is and put out a final shipping product so we can decide for ourselves. This has disaster written all over it.
post #11 of 56
I guess someone should start a RIM deathknell counter. I think Apple's reached into the 1000s before success finally stifled the myopic visionaries.
post #12 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

This is the Pre all over again. So much hype, announced well in advance, and the CEO telling the world how great it is against year old hardware.

+++

That is exactly what I thought when I read what the CEO said. CEOs who are all too happy to compare their not released product against released hardware always make me leery.
post #13 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

I was gonna point out these two things, but I guess this analyst actually knows what he is talking about. I am actually surprised that Galaxy Tab has such a good battery life on, though I guess Samsung does manufacture a lot of Apple's parts and may know a thing or two about making power efficient chips.

Well the Tab is only 45% the screen of the iPad, but of course I guess it also has less battery space. As for RIM they are barley on the radar screen now, I'm more interested in seeing what the battery life on the Motorola pad is going to be.
post #14 of 56
This is to be expected as it's the first product to use RIM's new operating system.

Let's not forget that the first iOS device (the 1st gen iPhone) had to cut vital features like 3G and GPS in order to have an acceptable battery life.

As iOS matured, so did its power conservation. I'd expect the same from QNX.
post #15 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

This is to be expected as it's the first product to use RIM's new operating system.

Let's not forget that the first iOS device (the 1st gen iPhone) had to cut vital features like 3G and GPS in order to have an acceptable battery life.

As iOS matured, so did its power conservation. I'd expect the same from QNX.

I dont think it was so much an iOS maturing that kept out 3G but 3G HW maturing. But this isnt really the issue, the issue is if the OS and UI are efficient enough, something that iOS was already years ahead of the industry with version 1.0. Apple came out of the gate running with an entirely new UI called CocoaTouch that isnt just a Flash overlay. There is a huge difference here. I fully expect RiM to be dropping AIR for a native, homegrown UI within a couple years.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #16 of 56
I can't put my finger on one innovative thing from RIM that I feel has changed mobile devices for the better since the original BB's. Everything still feels like it's from the early 2000's. I think that their phones started losing value in my eyes when they began being sold for a dollar or as a buy one get one free deal. That just doesn't scream quality... I think that they're still a viable company, but they should really re-evaluate what they're trying to do. While Apple is about to crank out iPad 2, and a whole plethora of Android tablets are hitting the floor (for better or worse), RIM is pouring millions into pushing their Torch and touting the godliness of the Playbook. My iPad's battery never ceases to amaze. Sure, you can use Flash and do every waking thing that the web has to offer on the Playbook, but at what cost?
post #17 of 56
I wouldn't say RIM is dying... but Apple and Android are perceived as the "it" companies. Also, you don't see nearly as many RIM developers.

And as we all know:

Developers developers developers developers developers developers developers developers.

post #18 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

RIM does have a loyal Blackberry following. With that in mind RIM reminds me of Apple in the 90s... resting on its laurels for too long and then doing its damnedest to try and stay current. The only difference to keep in mind is that RIM has always had a much larger following for their product than Apple had for Macs (percentages etc.).

That tells me that they are still a viable company... but they need a SJ to pull them out of the toilet...

(if nothing else RIM's Playbook will most likely be a big incentive for Adobe to get its game on...)

If not, Microsoft can always buy them out, like they did with Danger, Inc. Look how well that turned out! Oh wait...

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #19 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by j1h15233 View Post

Assuming Apple announces and releases the iPad 2 in the first half of 2011, I suspect that the Playbook will be outdated and outclassed (even more than it is now) before it's even released.

Not necessarily. It sounds like it's going to be a niche product in the emerging mainstream tablet business. A footnote in the history of tablets. Unloved, except by RIM diehards.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #20 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac.World View Post

Not to funny IMO. All the data I've seen shows RIM on a downward spiral.

And I personally doubt the Playbook is going to sell significantly. It's already been delayed once and pushed back until after the iPad starts selling in a few months. This fact alone will kill Playbook sales, regardless of the battery issue.

KInd of reminiscent of Palm. HP will probably buy RIM soon
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
Reply
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
Reply
post #21 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

This is to be expected as it's the first product to use RIM's new operating system.

Let's not forget that the first iOS device (the 1st gen iPhone) had to cut vital features like 3G and GPS in order to have an acceptable battery life.

As iOS matured, so did its power conservation. I'd expect the same from QNX.

I don't think Apple's future hung in the balance at the time of the first iOS release quite as much as RIM's does with this though.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
Reply
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
Reply
post #22 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post




Maybe its just me but your username seems like you dont expect to use it for for very long.

Probably just you.
post #23 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

I was gonna point out these two things, but I guess this analyst actually knows what he is talking about. I am actually surprised that Galaxy Tab has such a good battery life on, though I guess Samsung does manufacture a lot of Apple's parts and may know a thing or two about making power efficient chips.

RIM has a distinct advantage over Samsung. Like Apple, RIM controls the hardware and software so i suspect that the device will be capable of over 6 hours of battery life unless its running at full tilt constantly.

RIM has a great track record with their phone devices (granted they run the old BBOS with a lot of upper tier capabilities missing) but it is designed around their hardware. Even though QNX is new to RIM im sure they know there is a benchmark they need to reach to be successful.
post #24 of 56
This is the issue with opening your mouth before you have something to show: Regardless of what you say is or isn't the truth, any negative press--true or not--will have a deleterious effect.

For an analyst to say, "The battery won't last," and for your response to be, "Yes it will"--well, that simply does not look good.

It's a lot better to STFU, release your product, then let it speak for itself, after which people will judge it on the actual product, on not on analysts' prognostications, which usually focus on the negatives (that is, what will lose their customers money).
post #25 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"At the end of the day, we are glad RIM is working hard on improving battery life as it will be good for both customers and shareholders."

Best quote from an analyst I've read in years. Good competition between vendors means we all win.
post #26 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

RIM has a distinct advantage over Samsung. Like Apple, RIM controls the hardware and software so i suspect that the device will be capable of over 6 hours of battery life unless its running at full tilt constantly.

Samsung has control over the HW and SW, too. Android is completely open vendors to meddle anyway they wish and this isnt Samsungs first mobile device using Android, yet it is RiMs first foray into both QNX and Adobe AIR as a UI, which in itself seems troublesome. Frankly, I have more faith in Samsung than RiM when it comes to making a modern mobile device.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #27 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

This is to be expected as it's the first product to use RIM's new operating system. Let's not forget that the first iOS device (the 1st gen iPhone) had to cut vital features like 3G and GPS in order to have an acceptable battery life. As iOS matured, so did its power conservation. I'd expect the same from QNX.

I'm not an expert by any means, but my understanding is that QNX is to RIM's new OS as Darwin is to OS-X. In other words the QNX part is the kernel(s) and the services and the rest of the OS is Adobe Air graphics and Javascript programs running on top.

So ... QNX (which has been around for years), is already optimised, but primarily as an embedded systems OS, so the power requirements may not have been something anyone looked at previous to RIM's using it for the Playbook. Additionally, the Adobe Air/Javascript parts are probably not optimised either since they are third party code originally intended for the desktop.

All in all it's quite a mess of stuff they are trying to cobble together for the Playbook OS. It seems like a much harder job than simply stripping down something like OS-X and putting a new graphical front end on it as Apple has done.
post #28 of 56
It isn't to be expected when the CEO says its product is vastly superior to other comparable product out there.


Further, Apple likely didn't offer 3G initially because it wasn't widely available on AT&T at the time of the first iPhone. AT&T invested heavily in that after the fact. It likely had little to do with battery consumption. The lack of GPS had more to do with Apple's reliance on Google for the mapping software.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

This is to be expected as it's the first product to use RIM's new operating system.

Let's not forget that the first iOS device (the 1st gen iPhone) had to cut vital features like 3G and GPS in order to have an acceptable battery life.

As iOS matured, so did its power conservation. I'd expect the same from QNX.
post #29 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

This is to be expected as it's the first product to use RIM's new operating system.

Let's not forget that the first iOS device (the 1st gen iPhone) had to cut vital features like 3G and GPS in order to have an acceptable battery life.

As iOS matured, so did its power conservation. I'd expect the same from QNX.

the difference is, Apple never blew smoke up people's rear-ends about how great and superior their product is before they had a final product to ship. Then, most importantly, they were RIGHT about how great it was, despite the GPS/3G flaws. I don't see RIM shipping a product proportionately superior relative to the "smack" they're talking.

Also, the Pre analogy made earlier is quite apt. Rubenstein laughed at the prospect of selling the Pre for less than the iPhone - I believe his quote was (paraphrasing) "Why would we sell a superior product for less money?" We all know how that worked out for him.
post #30 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

You know, AI pays a lot of attention to RIM. It's a dying company. Let it die in peace. Go to the light!

Light being?
Same Apple. Same Mac. Different Take. Different Place. http://Applemacness.com
Reply
Same Apple. Same Mac. Different Take. Different Place. http://Applemacness.com
Reply
post #31 of 56
True, but that's one of the reasons why Apple left those features off in the beginning. Battery life is pretty darn important. It would be nice to have all of the bells and whistles, but if it sucks your battery dry in record time, what good is multi-tasking, if it kills your battery?

As time goes on, I expect that the Playbook is a ways off yet. RIM shouldn't have done so much talking and boasting until the device was ready to be mass produced. That has really turned up the pressure on them. It's clearly unfinished. They need to ship and soon. That said, I hope that they don't do what they did with the Storm. Ship it when it's ready. REALLY ready.
post #32 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by dualie View Post

I guess someone should start a RIM deathknell counter. I think Apple's reached into the 1000s before success finally stifled the myopic visionaries.

Actually, I think there still people out there predicting Apple's demise at some point, you hear all the time if apple does not do this or that they will fail.

I just like how so many people hate success and they are just waiting for a failure.

I think RIM will be around for a long time, just like MS they will just be less relevant in the future. They have a strong foot hold in to corporate America and these guys are slow to change direction. Just like MS who makes billions on licensing and maintenance agreements with large corporate account, RIM does the same thing.

With that said the tide is starting to turn, many companies are moving to google mail verses outlook and also google apps, so MS is loosing ground in their primary market as companies look for ways to reduce their dependency on MS and cutting their cost and right now RIM is expensive to companies. see the chart below is showing the downward trend on RIM in favor or Google and Apple

post #33 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

You know, AI pays a lot of attention to RIM. It's a dying company. Let it die in peace. Go to the light!

Funny...RIM needs to hire Jobs. After all, Stevo is only getting paid a dollar a year!
post #34 of 56
My CEO father used to say, "In business, if you're not growing, you're dying!"

This has to be even more apropos in the fast moving tech industry...

RIP RIM!
post #35 of 56
Poor RIM. It's like "coming in second" in a duel at twenty paces!

Best
post #36 of 56
I think Apple is leading the way in Battery-life innovation....
post #37 of 56
Weve learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone, he said. PC guys are not going to just figure this out. Theyre not going to just walk in.

Some things are turning around all of a sudden.

After the Palm guy made those comments, you can be sure all the mobile phone guys were nodding in agreement.
They all felt that Apple would not be able to pull it through and be able to make something work.

Well guess what. The old mobile phone has all of sudden become a new miniature computer.

And everything in Tablet size is nothing but a glorified bigger phone (excuse me Computer).

I wonder what those phone guys are saying and thinking now.

All I can say is those "phone guys are not going to just figure this out. It will be real hard for them to just walk in".
post #38 of 56
Re: "QNX wasn't originally designed for low-powered mobile environments"

Uh oh. That means RIM will be thrashing to get QNX ready for release ASAP. And that means they will be making mistakes. You simply can't hurry software development. If you shorten the schedule, you cut down testing time, which means bugs will be released.

That, plus the fact that the PlayBook will use off-the-shelf CPUs and batteries, and you have a perfect storm of hurt. Not a bag of hurt. A perfect storm of hurt.

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

Reply

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

Reply
post #39 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Samsung has control over the HW and SW, too. Android is completely open vendors to meddle anyway they wish and this isnt Samsungs first mobile device using Android, yet it is RiMs first foray into both QNX and Adobe AIR as a UI, which in itself seems troublesome. Frankly, I have more faith in Samsung than RiM when it comes to making a modern mobile device.

Samsung, while having control does not take battery life into main consideration. I own a Vibrant and while its a great elite device, its battery life is fairly miserable stock with less than 12 hours a day if you use it only moderately. Hell even my old Evo i used to own had better battery life. If it werent for the custom ROM/Kernel im running idk if i'd still even be using my Vibrant to be honest, its funny that my Vibrant can actually go the full day now that its not running the stock garbage Samsung puts onto it.

Contrast that to say Motorola who can pull out iPhone 4 besting battery life in their devices while still offering great performance, it affirms my decision that Samsung is not a benchmark in the slightest. I guarantee Motorola's upcoming tablet will soundly trump the Tab, even with its faster dual core processor with better performance and battery life.

So RIM has QNX, which is not a new OS at all, with an Adobe AIR layer for the UI. RIM can pull it off, they've got the hardware which has been the main shortcoming for RIM, and the software to back it up hopefully, which so far looks extremely promising.
post #40 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

Actually, I think there still people out there predicting Apple's demise at some point, you hear all the time if apple does not do this or that they will fail.

I just like how so many people hate success and they are just waiting for a failure.

I think RIM will be around for a long time, just like MS they will just be less relevant in the future. They have a strong foot hold in to corporate America and these guys are slow to change direction. Just like MS who makes billions on licensing and maintenance agreements with large corporate account, RIM does the same thing.

With that said the tide is starting to turn, many companies are moving to google mail verses outlook and also google apps, so MS is loosing ground in their primary market as companies look for ways to reduce their dependency on MS and cutting their cost and right now RIM is expensive to companies. see the chart below is showing the downward trend on RIM in favor or Google and Apple


I think that over the years similar things could have been said about Atari, Commodore 64 etc.
Market leaders that seemingly disappeared over night.

The problem when looking at Rim is that they are booking decent revenue but are these sales from growth or replacement sales and bargain hunters? It is possible, that even with the revenue they have, that their sales are about to fall off a cliff. Using Bogo (buy one get one free) to drive sales can improve revenue but can also rapidly shrink your potential customer pool. My opinion is that if the tablet and it's new os are not a hit then Rim will find itself in the same boat as Palm after Webos and the Pre failed to win enough buyers. Even the back end server work that they do and the corporate management tools they sell are becoming irrelevant.
Crying? No, I am not crying. I am sweating through my eyes.
Reply
Crying? No, I am not crying. I am sweating through my eyes.
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPad
  • RIM PlayBook unlikely to match Apple iPad without larger battery - report
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPad › RIM PlayBook unlikely to match Apple iPad without larger battery - report