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Unconfirmed photos may show Apple's 5th-gen or Verizon iPhone antenna redesign - Page 2

post #41 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Nah, you only have the right to say "I told you so" when you can prove that they changed the design of the antenna. These pictures and video don't really show that.

The so-called "problem" was bridging that gap between the two antennas, which by all appearances appears to be completely unchanged on this model. It might be different, but it looks the same to me even when you enlarge it.

The burden of proof is on the naysayers here and I see nothing yet that indicates they "addressed the issue" of the antenna design in that area. Show me proof that the troublesome band has been replaced with a cosmetic version and then you can say "I told you so."

All I said was that the antenna will be redesigned, or tweaked (read my original post). I don't have proof yet, as we don't know how the new iPhone will look in the end, but the fact remains that I told you so, and I can repeat it as many times as I like. There is a chance that eventually I will have been wrong all along, the design will be unchanged, and I will look like a fool. I am taking this chance.

Cheers.
post #42 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

All I said was that the antenna will be redesigned, or tweaked (read my original post). I don't have proof yet, as we don't know how the new iPhone will look in the end, but the fact remains that I told you so, and I can repeat it as many times as I like. There is a chance that eventually I will have been wrong all along, the design will be unchanged, and I will look like a fool. I am taking this chance.

Cheers.

Given that, as has been pointed out endless times, they have "tweaked" the antenna in every new iPhone, you have nearly a 100% chance of being correct. That should give you about the same level of satisfaction as predicting that the sun will rise tomorrow and then telling everyone, "I told you so!"
post #43 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

Jeesh... they're coming out of the woodwork now.

Apple leaves the iPhone4 design alone post-antennagate, we get the "Apple refuses to admit a flaw" crowd.

Apple does subtle redesigns that include the re-placement of the bands, we get the "See!! We were right all along!!!" crowd.

Apple comes out with a totally different looking iP5 with nothing cosmetically similar to the iP4, we'll certainly get the "See, iP4 was a total failure all along!!!" crowd.



You forgot the "There was nothing wrong, Apple just did it to shut up the critics" crowd.

Quote:
These are evolutionary changes. Nothing more, nothing less. Apple is within its right to improve its products better than their previous generations.

I suggest buying thicker tinfoil.

But what about the "iPhone is perfect" crowd?

And the "iPhone 3G is perfect" crowd?

And the "iPhone 3GS is perfect" crowd?

And the "iPhone 4 is perfect" crowd?

By improving iPhones "better than their previous generations", what does that mean for the "perfection" of the previous iPhones?
post #44 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

But what about the "iPhone is perfect" crowd?

And the "iPhone 3G is perfect" crowd?

And the "iPhone 3GS is perfect" crowd?

And the "iPhone 4 is perfect" crowd?

By improving iPhones "better than their previous generations", what does that mean for the "perfection" of the previous iPhones?

That 'perfection' is relative.
post #45 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

I thought the placement of the junction band on the lower left-hand corner (looking straight at the phone) was the weak spot? If so, it's still there, unless that one got switched to an aesthetic band.

What am I missing?

My thought exactly when I saw the pictures. I was hoping the the bumper would be "built in" as it were. That would change up the design a bit and stave off the antenna issue discussions.
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post #46 of 83
Does anyone know what kind of antenna is required for true 4G LTE reception, and whether an antenna can be shared with other reception antennas (GSM, CDMA, GPS, WiFi, BlueTouth etc)?

I am not an engineer, but why can't the software allow sharing of multiple antennas, and switch to other antenna segments when it may be called for (as in bridging the gap with your fingers)? (I know certain antennas are based on length and wavelength optimization, etc, but just wondered about this). Or - does this negate the supposed health "advantage" or requiring the cellphone antenna to be isolated to the bottom of the phone?

(I misplaced my "Cellphone antennas for Dummies" book, but then again, so did all the Apple engineers involved with the original iP4 design.)
post #47 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

I thought the placement of the junction band on the lower left-hand corner (looking straight at the phone) was the weak spot? If so, it's still there, unless that one got switched to an aesthetic band.

What am I missing?

It could either be aesthetic, the strip on the left could be non-functional or the entire bottom part of the band could be the 3G antenna. I posted a mockup of what I thought they should do a little while ago:

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...02&postcount=9

By moving the gaps up near the top of the phone, they are away from your touch. The cellular part goes near the bottom away from your head to comply with regulations. Obvious really but whether the design would permit that remained to be seen.

That would of course make the wifi antenna a fair bit smaller but I doubt it would make much difference unless you hold it in landscape while gaming but you wouldn't cover it too much.

Whatever they've done with the antenna, the following is obvious:

- they knew there was an issue with the antenna, which is why they held the conference
- they made it clear they were going to find a solution
- they do not want to put out the new model with the exact same issue, that would be silly as people would be looking for the flaw

I fully expected a redesigned antenna and I don't think it's a huge deal. The iPhone 4 didn't show significant issues in the real world.

I'm a little disappointed by the rest of the shape as it means the same small screen and bezel size. I'd have liked a capacitive button or bezel and a taller display.
post #48 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I'm a little disappointed by the rest of the shape as it means the same small screen and bezel size. I'd have liked a capacitive button or bezel and a taller display.

That means a new SDK for new apps. This means fragmentation so it needs to be planned well. While I think they will release a different size iPhone model I dont think they will do it just yet. I think a CDMA-based iPhone will be enough of a draw to short component supplies sufficiently this year. Maybe next year we can expect a 4.x iPhone with new SDK and App Store. This could also be the model that first comes with LTE.
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post #49 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post

I've never liked the 'G terminology and never used it. I don't know why people keep on using it. Why not call the iPhone X-Gen by it's name? Why would apple call the new iPhone the 4GS or something? Users wouldn't understand.

iPhone 4 Pro Extreme
post #50 of 83
TURQUOISE FLEX CABLE!!! Finally.

I am so getting one of these...
post #51 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Perceptive types however, will note that the whole area where the "problem" supposedly was with iPhone 4 has been left exactly the same and that the antennas are still external to the device in exactly the same manner.

I don't think you can make that statement. Just because there is still a gap there doesn't mean the two strips of metal on either side of the gap are the same antennas. I'm a little unclear from the previous posts if there are currently two or three strips of metal around the current iPhone. One poster claims one of the the gaps isn't really a gap, but just there for symmetry.

However, if there are currently three metal areas, that means that at at least one gap, the two antennas are adjacent. This is the problem gap. The other two gaps are separated by a non-antenna strip of metal. But if you then take that non-antenna piece and divide it in two and use each half to separate both ends of both antennas, then you no longer have the two antennas adjacent to each other where bridging the gap causes the so-called issue. Now, bridging the gap only bridges an antenna to a non-antenna surface, not antenna to antenna coupling as in the current design.

Bottom line: Just because there is still a gap in the same location, you don't know if the two metal surfaces on either side of that gap serve the same function as the current design.

Mind the Gap!
post #52 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSHMAN4 View Post

Considering Photoshop is around these photos are poor at best.
I wouldn't put to much credability in these

But there is fairly convincing video as well, with a number of very plausible internal design changes.
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post #53 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

To add to the confusion, who's to say what they got their hands on was a proto of the iphone 4. Apple goes through various design iteration and this just could be one of them.

Or if it is the VZ phone then that means no facetime for VZ customer. so what they an Apple decision of a VZ decision, either way the VZ customers could be getting less features than the run of the world

That occurred to me as well. These could be genuine Apple parts and still not have anything to do with the iPhone 5.
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post #54 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

But what about the "iPhone is perfect" crowd?

And the "iPhone 3G is perfect" crowd?

And the "iPhone 3GS is perfect" crowd?

And the "iPhone 4 is perfect" crowd?

By improving iPhones "better than their previous generations", what does that mean for the "perfection" of the previous iPhones?

What about them? They don't exist, except in the minds of ever cranky self-appointed "fan boy police."

The "iPhone is really great" crowd? Sure. The "not really seeing a problem with the antenna" crowd? You bet. But claiming that some substantial number of people are flatly calling each iteration of the iPhone "perfect" is a pretty shabby strawman.

Especially when compared to the actual fair numbers of people determined to fault Apple at every turn, many of them hanging around hereabouts.
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post #55 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

So the 5th gen iPhone is going to look like the 4th gen, basically? I don't think.

Why not? The 3G and the 3GS looked exactly alike. Do you think its easy redesigning the phone every year?
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post #56 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

I don't think you can make that statement. Just because there is still a gap there doesn't mean the two strips of metal on either side of the gap are the same antennas. I'm a little unclear from the previous posts if there are currently two or three strips of metal around the current iPhone. One poster claims one of the the gaps isn't really a gap, but just there for symmetry.

However, if there are currently three metal areas, that means that at at least one gap, the two antennas are adjacent. This is the problem gap. The other two gaps are separated by a non-antenna strip of metal. But if you then take that non-antenna piece and divide it in two and use each half to separate both ends of both antennas, then you no longer have the two antennas adjacent to each other where bridging the gap causes the so-called issue. Now, bridging the gap only bridges an antenna to a non-antenna surface, not antenna to antenna coupling as in the current design.

Bottom line: Just because there is still a gap in the same location, you don't know if the two metal surfaces on either side of that gap serve the same function as the current design.

Mind the Gap!

The iPhone 4 antenna is indeed only in two pieces and one of the "gaps" is purely aesthetic. From examining the video of this alleged redesign I'd say the new model is also in two pieces but now has two fake "gaps" rather than one. Personally I think it's more likely that this is from an early prototype of the iPhone 4 than a new model.
post #57 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

What about them? They don't exist, except in the minds of ever cranky self-appointed "fan boy police."

The "iPhone is really great" crowd? Sure. The "not really seeing a problem with the antenna" crowd? You bet. But claiming that some substantial number of people are flatting calling each iteration of the iPhone "perfect" is a pretty shabby strawman.

Especially when compared to the actual fair numbers of people determined to fault Apple at every turn, many of them hanging around hereabouts.

Totally agree.

I have never, ever heard anyone - even the hardcore iFanboys - ever call any iteration of the iPhone "perfect". It is not perfect. Nothing ever is, except maybe a flawless diamond.
So the argument the individual is trying blow-smoke with is complete rubbish.

The way the critics are coming out is simply a validation that they were wrong and are now trying to save face.

I personally love the current iP4 design. Obviously, many consumers think the same way as the demand for the iP4 sends a clear signal to Apple that they have another hit product. I expect every iteration of their phone to have some kind of update / enhancement / tweak to it since they are still trying to reach that never-attainable "perfection" bar. Kudos to them for trying.

Where were the other phone manufacturers all this time? Here they are (now) making cheap, plastic garbage with a now-becomming-generic smartphone OS that is already showing the signs of a commodity OS with the same problems as a certain desktop OS. Folks have the nerve to eschew Apple for making a phone that may be susceptible to scratching when shot out of a cannon. Puuhleez!

I predict that the iPhone 10 will not have any resemblance to the current iP4. I can quote myself on that in 10 years and too say "I told you so!!"

</rant>
post #58 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

I predict that the iPhone 10 will not have any resemblance to the current iP4. I can quote myself on that in 10 years and too say "I told you so!!

This is where some jackass (I guess thats me ) points out that if it has a display taking up most of the front itll resemble the iPhone 4.
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post #59 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJinTX View Post

It seems clear that they are addressing the antenna issues which is great,

Except that it s not clear at all. These photos could be totally fake.

And keep in mind that Apple has taken the stance that there is no issue with the antenna design. They say the problem is ATT reception quality and hit greedy media

So the only way to 'address' that is to dump ATT and get a restraint order on the media.

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(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #60 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

...
I predict that the iPhone 10 will not have any resemblance to the current iP4. I can quote myself on that in 10 years and too say "I told you so!!"

</rant>

Information theory will tell you that the value of a prediction is higher if it goes against the odds. It is easy to predict that 6 generations from now the changes will be substantial. Evolution of the design will gradually lead to accumulation of changes and such a prediction is a sure bet, that's why it is not interesting.

This is clear to some here, and that's why solipsism claimed that my prediction of the antenna design change is trivial, and anyone could have made it based on the expected evolution of the devices that we can almost take for granted. Fair enough, however I would still argue that even though we expect to see some design changes in the next iPhone, we know that not everything will be changed. So to single out the antenna has some merit. In contrast, I am not claiming that the screen resolution will change or that the cameras will change much, nor am I claiming that at least few of the specs will change without specifying which ones. That would obviously be a trivial prediction, and thus devoid of any value, just like yours about iPhone 10 (although I admit that simply predicting there will be an iPhone 10 is bold enough
post #61 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

While CDMA does not use a SIM card, Verizon's high-speed 4G network does.

CDMA can use a SIM called R-UIM. China Unicom uses them.
post #62 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVlad View Post

I think this is pretty probable. It looks like the top part of the iPhone can be used as the WI-FI and Bluetooth antenna and the whole bottom part that almost goes around the whole phone is going to be network antenna. This way if the hand is covering only the bottom part of the phone now it will have the rest of the metal to connect through.

Plus it now looks symmetrical. Two black bands on one side and the other side.

I wouldn't be surprised if the iPhone 5 will keep the form factor of iPhone 4. Apple did it once with 3G, why not again.

Great post and most likely scenario except this is the Verizon iPhone not iPhone 4GS IMO...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post

The problem did not came from the junction itself, but by the fact that covering it made a bridge between the two metallic bands therefore changing the resonance frequency of the antenna that could no longer receive the network field. Making more junctions would allow more antennas on each iPhone, so that even if you cover one, another keeps on working.

See above post, yes the problem is the hand bridging the two antennas and covering up the entire bottom section of the phone... If the phone is now just two antennas (top section for WiFi, middle+bottom section for cell signal (the bottom two seams are cosmetic)) it would now make sense.

That said this is probably the Verizon iPhone4 not iPhone 4GS etc IMO.
post #63 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by gavers View Post

CDMA can use a SIM called R-UIM. China Unicom uses them.

Oh yeah, China Telecom does use them.
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post #64 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Except that it s not clear at all. These photos could be totally fake.

And keep in mind that Apple has taken the stance that there is no issue with the antenna design. They say the problem is ATT reception quality and hit greedy media

So the only way to 'address' that is to dump ATT and get a restraint order on the media.

Nope Apple said all smartphones have weak spots and the iPhone 4 has a weak spot at the seam, which is true. They did say it is still the antenna with the best reception of any iPhone, which is also true, if you are not touching the weak spot.
post #65 of 83
And poof.. the video is taken down with a Copyright notice from Apple. Bingo.
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post #66 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Unlike Myself View Post

And poof.. the video is taken down with a Copyright notice from Apple. Bingo.

Who says Apple's the one to have taken it down?

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #67 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Who says Apple's the one to have taken it down?

YouTube says it "This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Apple, Inc."
post #68 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

What about them? They don't exist, except in the minds of ever cranky self-appointed "fan boy police."

The "iPhone is really great" crowd? Sure. The "not really seeing a problem with the antenna" crowd? You bet. But claiming that some substantial number of people are flatly calling each iteration of the iPhone "perfect" is a pretty shabby strawman.

If they continually believe that there are no issues with any iPhone that need addressing or things that need improving, isn't that basically calling it perfect?

Quote:
Especially when compared to the actual fair numbers of people determined to fault Apple at every turn, many of them hanging around hereabouts.

Perhaps this explains the "How did this get past Apple quality control" comments that have been going around. If quality control or security testing staff at Apple did their jobs, they could be viewed as "people determined to fault Apple at every turn". So better for those guys to stay silent? In fact, why even hire QC staff at all, if all they are going to do is "fault Apple"?
post #69 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by gavers View Post

YouTube says it "This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Apple, Inc."

Yes. I know that. And who's to say that's really Apple Inc.?

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #70 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Yes. I know that. And who's to say that's really Apple Inc.?

1) They have a very official looking Apple Channel on YouTube which I can only assume was long ago verified.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Apple 2) Since Google owns YouTube I find it hard to believe that some unknown source sent YouTube through some unofficial channel.
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post #71 of 83
Apple is a member of YouTube's "Content Verification Program." No one could have content removed under the name "Apple, Inc." without using the private CVP system for reporting it. If you see a video removed with the name of a big company, you are guaranteed that the named company reported it.
post #72 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Except that it s not clear at all. These photos could be totally fake.

And keep in mind that Apple has taken the stance that there is no issue with the antenna design. They say the problem is ATT reception quality and hit greedy media

So the only way to 'address' that is to dump ATT and get a restraint order on the media.

You'll notice that I said it "seems clear". This is a personal perception of mine, and it may turn out to be wrong, but this is how it seems to me at the moment. Of course Apple will not admit to 100% responsibility for antenna-gate, nor would I if I were them. However, they also admitted that the iPhone, like all other phones suffers weaknesses, and who out there doesn't believe Apple will attempt to minimize these weaknesses with their eventual re-design? Of course they will, it's a no-brainer. If they end up not being able to significantly improve the antenna issue, then they just won't comment on their efforts, but if they do improve it you can bet they will let the world know about their breakthrough technology that puts them above all other handset makers. Either way, whether they succeed or not, it seems clear that they are trying to address the antenna issue.
post #73 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Yes. I know that. And who's to say that's really Apple Inc.?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Who says Apple's the one to have taken it down?

I would hope that just anybody couldn't contact Google and make copyright takedown requests in Apple's name. Maybe that is the case, but it doesn't seem likely.

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #74 of 83
Looks like the phone will be launched early next week, can't wait
http://www.iosnoops.com/2011/01/06/c...-launch-rumor/
post #75 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

I could be misremembering this, but I believe there are only 2 "metal sections" (the cellular and wifi/bluetooth antennas) in the current IP4 design. Some of the "gaps" are merely cosmetic and the "sections" are actually joined internally. So, the number and position of "gaps" doesn't necessarily tell us a whole lot about the actual antenna design.

Yes and no. I think if it was about cosmetics then Steve would prioritise having fewer gaps than having more in order for them to be symmetrical. I was surprised that he didn't didn't disguise them further the first time around by locating the gaps at the headphone jack and the 30 pin connector socket.

I think this means the antennae sections will be at the top and base of the device and the two straight metal sections on the sides will serve to separate the two antennae as far from each other as possible. Regardless of the minimal impact on sales Antennagate was a PR fiasco the first time around. An antennae redesign was virtually guaranteed this time around.
post #76 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdag View Post

Looks like the phone will be launched early next week, can't wait
http://www.iosnoops.com/2011/01/06/c...-launch-rumor/

I look forward to it. If only SO THAT THESE BLOODY VERIZON RUMOURS CAN FINALLY, FINALLY COME TO AN END!!!!
post #77 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdag View Post

Looks like the phone will be launched early next week, can't wait
http://www.iosnoops.com/2011/01/06/c...-launch-rumor/

Apple does no launches on Mondays. They always did Tuesdays so the press wouldn't have to fly on Sunday. If there was a launch, we'd have seen invites early this week. It's not happening.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #78 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdag View Post

Looks like the phone will be launched early next week, can't wait
http://www.iosnoops.com/2011/01/06/c...-launch-rumor/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Apple does no launches on Mondays. They always did Tuesdays so the press wouldn't have to fly on Sunday. If there was a launch, we'd have seen invites early this week. It's not happening.

Verizon just announced a January 11 eventttttttttttttt
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...eculation.html
post #79 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Verizon just announced a January 11 eventttttttttttttt
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...eculation.html

And as I've said for the past three years, I'll believe it when Steve Jobs stands on stage in front of a Verizon logo or I'm holding one in my hand.

Verizon's CEO himself said that they would not be launching the iPhone, Apple would.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #80 of 83
Personally, I don't think it's the fifth gen iPhone.
Why?
Because if you look at it, now there's 4 antennas as opposed to 3, as there were in the iPhone 4. So basically, you have the same antennas for the iPhone 4 (Bluetooth/WiFi/GPS, and GSM. But now its bluetooth/WiFi/GPS, and CDMA) plus a fourth antenna that could be used for LTE.
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