CES: Motorola challenging Apple's iPad with Android-based Xoom tablet - Page 2

You mean that market Apple takes ⅓ of all handset profits? Yeah, theyre really being destroyed.

It was stupid then. Before FaceTime and the new Skype that is. Can you guess whether or not ipad2 will have one that actually does something? Taking photos with an iPad or a Xoom is still stupid.

Is there a saturation point for new tablets and smartphones? Can they all be successful? What would success look like? Can it be Apple with 5% of the market and 99 other manufacturers with 1% each?

Notice I said manufacturers, not OSes.

When will this corporate charade of trying to champion the market finally end? Product after product, lousy limitations still succeed, and after each and every installation, Apple remains beneath their own hand-built crown. It's tiring to watch these companies produce such epic failures, waste time and money on unoriginal ideas, only to market these ideas in a fashion that supersedes their product's true potential.

i've always liked widgets. ever since Apple introduced the concept on the desktop with -?- OS X Tiger. which MS finally copied in Vista. now that app folders let you save plenty of screen real estate, the next iOS update should certainly enable them for iPhone and iPad. Android has in fact shown their potential, and Windows Phone 7 really is built around them - the "tiles." don't be stubborn, Steve.

T-Pain needs to be at CES to ask the important questions, and make the obvious statements.

"It's not gigahertz, people. It's JIGGA-Hertz! Holla atcha boy!"

On a serious note: Why are the contents of the Xoom display Photoshopped on? Is it maybe because it's not running anything yet? As they state, they're not quite done.

It's fun to be spitting out jigga-hertz and RAM and ports and ships and docks...funny.

I work in the high-end bicycle industry and the one thing we don't advertise on our website is bike weight. Seems to be the only metric some people are concerned with (like jigga-hertz). "Oooh, it weighs 22 pounds!" they exclaim as they fail to notice that the rims are made out of rice paper.

Widgets are so elementary in my estimation. I've never noticed the necessity of their novelties in Windows, nor in Apple operating systems. They just serve to collect resources and create a casualty of the screen's carpet.

I unlock my phone and I get instant access to my weather, top news stories and even stocks without having to hit anything else.

Sure, I could just hit the weather app, close it, stock app, close it, news app, close it.. (etc) but why should I have to do that especially for stuff that I just want at a glance?

Widgets are amazing.



And to respond to someone earlier, the reason motorola makes such a big deal about specs is because they're not writing the software. Google's the one that will show off features, or maybe Motorola will do this in a series of videos later. Apple has a completely different business model.

When they announced the IPad, they were also announcing iOS for the tablet form factor. They were stressing the experience of the software and only spent a bit on the hardware since it was the ONLY device running ios in that form factor.

Compare that to the xoom where there are already a handful of tablets promising to run the same OS. The differentiator here will be the hardware, not the software, so that's what they focus on.

It will be interesting to see how the actual device handles itself once some hands-on videos start popping up (not to mention reviews) It's an amazing looking concept, and I think it's a bit early to say that it's an ipad "killer" or DOA considering that no one here (much less reviewers) actually knows everything that's going on with it.

The barometer is really cool. I would love to have it on my iPad, maybe they will come up with a dongle. I have started to use my iPad more and more for hiking and camping as it is great for charts and taking info about the area on, but no cell signal. Finally the app dev's have caught on and are making more apps that store data (maps, data sheets, trail notes) but weather apps are a sore spot since they are best when "live". A barometer would allow you some weather ability when outside the cell networks. I have it on my watch now and it gives you about 20 minutes warning before it rains (enough time to look quickly for shelter). I know I am not the only outdoors guy on this forum using my iPad like this I have met quite a few people using both iPads and iPhones this way. At night in a tent it is really great for entertainment and a light too. Just because it is not on our iPads does not mean we need to trash it, would be cool of we could add it.

really ignorant dude, how well does that website work for weather when you are outside of a wifi or cell network?

One can also get altitude from GPS. No need barometric pressure unless you want to monitor the weather,

Check out the video hands-on with Xoom on Engadget. And stop shouting “vaporware!”.

I’ll just quickly summarise what I think are the product’s hits and what are the misses:

Hits:
Judging from the video it is IPS display, maybe S-IPS. Note wide viewing angle when the guy rotates the thing around.

Cortex A9 + NVIDIA Tegra 2 graphics is a way to go. Much better performance for games than the Apple’s current 535, and dual core CPU is better not because of increased performance; it is much more important in eliminating UI flow hiccups here and there.

Misses:
Rear view camera is awkward to operate from a tablet, thus making its whole concept stupid. Yeah, I know Apple may implement this stupidity too in the next iPad, but that won’t make awkward part magically disappear. This will be the World’s Least Used Integrated Camera Ever.

16:10 screen format eliminates black bands when watching video. But it makes everything else worse: books are formated to 4:3 so people will have to get used to “weird” layout, browsing will require more scrolling in landscape and more zooming in portrait, and developers will have to spend more time redesigning UI of their apps from phone 4:3 version to tablet’s. Basically, you’re getting rid of the bands in video only to put them in the apps.

Moto is joking right.
They are just pimping the same old Android OS in a different package. They aren't going to spend years making their own OS from scratch. They aren't going to create their own itunes media hub. They are sheeping like all the rest. Watch as the summer approaches and the glut of tablets overwhelms the market place. There will be so many discounted, effing honeycom tablets in Sam Clubs, Walmart, Target, godd***** 7-11 priced to move like canned corn beef in the dollar store most of the players won't make a dime and will bow out with their tails between their legs.
All the while Apple will have 100% of the iSO market. Not bad.

Out of sight, out of mind!

Apple almost has to make a special announcement or more, soon, just to stay in the public eye. If Motorola and others just suck-up some air waves with what they MIGHT come out with, or what IS coming, and the fact that these items are "The fastest", "The smartest", "The coolest" new phones, tablets … or more, to hit the market, there are MILLIONS of folks who WILL buy these items. ALL buyers Apple wants!

Now even Steve knows (but probably doesn't like), that he / Apple can't have ALL of the buyers of these items. But Apple has positioned themselves so, that they CAN'T be out of the public / buyers eyes for very long periods of time (Sucks being Apple at this level).

So, do they upgrade items? Do they come out with NEW & Exciting items, helping to keep folks from buying into the competition's stuff? All options that Apple will take advantage of.

Steve / Apple are now in a place few companies have ever and will ever be in. They have the whole world watching to see what they will be doing next … his includes the competition.

When you have and command this much attention, you have to come through with something to cover the hype, and to keep the competition in the background.

When someone (Apple) comes out with the "Latest & The Greatest" then a HUGH part of the buying public, WILL put off purchasing other items, at least until the smoke clears.

Apple WILL have news or a "Special Event" soon, they can't afford not to -

Skip

Anyone else think that 1280X800 on a 10.1 inch screen ain't gonna be enough in 2011?

If Apple comes out with anything approximating a "retina display" for the iPad 2 (which will be out before the Xoom - I'll take bets) then this thing will look old and tired before it even gets to market.

Yeah, and if Apple's share price does exactly what it's done after "...Andriod does to [Apple's] tablets exactly what it's done to smartphones...." I am sure some of us can live with it!

Ah, you beat me to it.....

Because the pictures posted in the article are promotional pictures. Pictures of it actually running software can be seen here:

http://www.androidcentral.com/hands-motorola-xoom

Hey Skip



I think we get too close to the action by reading blogs, tech sites etc. but 98% of the population hasn't got a clue what is happening in the tech arena and, from what I hear every day, Apple is not out of anyone's mind (although I do know a few people who are out of their mind).

Apple's ads still play on tv and the Verizon intro will be blaring all over the waves in 2 weeks time. Apple knows how to get in everyone's face.

jmho

Do you think it's that easy to simply create a new OS, a new app store, and their "own iTunes media hub"? A year ago Motorola was in dire straits and needed to sell devices ASAP or the mobile division was going to be eliminated. The easiest way to do that was using a free OS and now are doing quite well so much so that the mobile division has become a separate entity.

I don't understand how some of you expect every device released a failure if it's not "groundbreaking", or "magical". No device has to kill another to do well. If companies want to put out cheaply tablets running Android , and sell them in walmart so be it. Why does that bother you?

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16:10 is for displaying 2 pages at once --- which is why computer monitors use that ratio.

Looks like Motorola just took the lead away from RIM for the most interesting vaporware iPad competitor.

On a more serious note it's interesting to see all these new devices will have dual core processors. I'm assuming the next generation iPad and iPhone will follow suit.

I just would like to take a moment and go off on a rant.

I don't think that I've ever actually published something on a thread, regarding a comment about anything online. But, after reading this article and watching that stupid video about Android Honeycomb (lame), I felt it necessary.

I understand that all the companies are at each others' throats trying to build the "best" tablet, phone, etc. out there. Trust me, I get that. But what I can't understand is this.

Realize this people...flash back to the year 2007 before the iPhone was launched. There was no such thing as a touch screen phone. We all had our dumb bricks, blackberries with mobile "Internet" and cheeseball "app stores" (if you even want to call it that) to download ringtones and 16-bit games. WooHoo.

With the introduction of the iPhone, Apple completely reinvented the mobile phone, hands down. They are the creative geniuses behind all of this. I don't care what type of operating system is developed for a tablet, phone, whatever the case may be. Watching this video of the new, oh-so-wonderous Android Honeycomb made me want to vomit. It looks like a 5th grader did the animations, it's not fluid movement, it's choppy and it's ALREADY been done. No matter how hard any of these companies try, they will NEVER create anything as beautiful, simplistic and visually stunning as the iPhone, AND it's OS. Plain and simple.

All you Android heads out there, I'd LOVE to hear your rebuttle.

No one else seems to have pointed out that in the video, the device was never rotated into portrait mode - given its aspect ratio, and Apple's decision to stick to 4:3, one wonders if the way it works in that mode is less impressive.

I can't believe how many people vociferously campaign to have a feature useful to some NOT included when it will compromise nothing for them and adds little cost and minimal weight. Not to mention, there will hardly be a tablet available from competitors which doesn't have the feature.

Remember, for one thing, the best camera you often have is the one you have with you when you need it. And for other reasons an iPad camera could be uniquely useful once enterprising developers begin to exploit it.

Imagine a contractor discussing remodeling your home who snaps the area to be worked on, and then sketches in how various changes will look right in front of you. Such "overlay" apps could be useful in many professions, and "augmented reality" apps already available on the iPhone are only in their infancy. So maybe not the first choice for snapshooting when other cams are available, but plenty of possibilities for useful work.

Also, just like on the iPhone, when doing Facetime or video Skype, you can share not only yer fugly mug, but also what you're looking AT without turning the device around.

Sheesh. Let the rest of us eat our cake.


Hear, hear. I used 'em for about three weeks and then disabled the mouse short-cut key to save the resource drain, since I'm always working on multiple projects in multiple programs and have an average of 20 open browser tabs. And on Win Vista, the go to desktop icon in the tray also makes the widgets disappear, so no way to even get to 'em without more trouble than it's worth for many to most users. But, hey, to be consistent, I'm fine with 'em being there for those who want 'em as long as they're not sucking up my CPU cycles and RAM.

Moto is not joking. They're betting their entire spin-off's future on this, and so far it's a race between a few companies to stand out of the Android pack, with MotoMob the only relevant domestic HW player against Samsung (who's on an utter tear in a BUNCH of CE categories) and HTC at the front. (Yeah I probably forgot a few somebodies. Sue.)

Everybody's also "skinning" Android as a differentiator, and this is one area where Motorola is arguably ahead of Samsung which is slow to deliver software promises. And they're doing OK in branding and marketing as well. "Droid" worked well and I think "Xoom" will fly as well.

RIM is in real trouble I think - simply on an economies of scale basis, i.e., up against the combined mass of multiple huge competitors - but could surprise. HP is the possible outlier here with its Palm assets, but it better get its game together real soon now, or the window will close, leaving Apple, Google and MS (Redmond's playing catchup, but has the resources to do so) as the only germane OS players in the new game. That is, unless OS-independence is the future where you can basically pick a device you like and find that everything you need has been well-ported to it.

Near-OS independence is NOT an impossible future, IMHO - that is, you still buy most household appliances for their features, not their OS after all. And in this future Apple would still thrive by being the first from which the rest race to emulate with a generic equivalent. [Tho' it's worth noting that Ford and MS have been quite successful at getting people to buy cars with "Sync" as the differentiator. Even there, though, they've been smart enough to accommodate multiple syncing devices running different OS's.]

Asus seems like a tablet player as well and you can never entirely count out established giants like Toshiba, Sony, etc. and emerging Chinese players, but you are right in the sense that once you get below the top tier, it's gonna be a dog fight with more corpses to bury than after a Michael Vick house party, circa a few years ago.


You're ignoring the rule of "good enough." Apple stores are wildly popular, but hardly as ubiquitous as all the big box shops, strip mall stores and cellco outlets that will be selling tablets. And when you walk in and play with something that looks bright and whiz-bangy and there's a card (or a salesperson) with a long feature checklist to tout, that will be sufficient to close the sale in many cases.


Also, if you want to live in the death valley of ever being quoted and commented on, try bringing actual background history and context into the discussion. The sound of one hand clapping.

"It was the first mobile phone with a capacitive touchscreen."

And it was single touch capacitance device with a crap OS and UI. Apple has rarely ever been the first to market with a new technology, but they are almost always the first to make a new technology viable in a way that everyone else has to follow or die. The multi-touch capacitive touchscreen with a modern mobile OS and UI designed for the HW is no exception.

He said , "There was no such thing as a touch screen phone." I showed otherwise.

The Prada had been leaked a bit a few weeks before the iPhone's introduction, but didn't get an official announcement till a few weeks after.

While the device actually shipped before the iPhone shipped, it was a feature phone with a few choppy animations. I think the OPs remarks make it clear what he meant-- that Apple reinvented the phone market with the iPhone, in a way that the Prada has no bearing on.

Yes, I suppose you did show otherwise, which is odd since you didnt choose any number of the resistive touchscreen phones that had been out for years before. Instead you choose the first capacitance touchscreen phone, hence I assumed you were confused about the differences between the LG Prada and original iPhone.

Did we watch the same video?

http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/05/g...blet-honeycom/

I didn't see anything there that warranted all of your rant about Honeycomb, but I accept that it's still your opinion.

Personally for me, iOS hasn't changed all that much over the past few years. Sure there were fixes and features added, but the look has just become...boring. Yes, it revolutionized the mobile phone but the "wow" factor has become less and less every time I watch the iPhone Event. The main screen is still just a sea of little icons on top of a background. There's no...life...to the home launcher screen.

What you're given by Apple is pretty much what you're stuck with (unless you choose to jailbreak). There are plenty of launchers for Android that don't require you to root your device to use. Download, install and presto! you have a brand new way of interacting with the main interface of your device.

But I have to ask you. If you think it's already been done before, then why don't I see the iPhone or iPad do the same thing as Honeycomb? All you can do on iOS is slide left and right on the main screen to find your app icon and then launch it. There's no way to move pages around, no way to do a preview of all your screens so you can move quickly (a la HTC Sense) from page to page. That home launcher feature to preview and add items to your screens at the 1:30 mark is quite cool.

I'll definitely grant you ALL those points, but I'm already seeing posts of people screaming how the new LGs look like the iPhone. How can that be if LG had that form factor almost 4 years ago?

I havent seen them. There is some discretion in how you judge a copycat. Laws of usage dictate certain aspects that will be universal but other things surely arent. The LG Prada and iPhone were likely not copying each other in any way, if you want the display to be the main input and for it to be handheld then you pretty much have a single avenue.

Just to clarify things, the rantings were on another site, and the copying I assume they're screaming about is the black front and back with a metallic edge, which clearly was a design first used by LG in 2007 which if they choose to use it again should be able to do so without be called Apple copycats. Agreeable?

If Verizon or Sprint are partners, they might reach for Service contracts, which means subsidized pricing is possible. If Apple / AT&T doesn't do the same for the iPad, it would make the Xoom look cheaper than Apple/AT&T's no-contract pricing.

So you're saying that since they can't invent anything as nice they shouldn't try?
How asinine is that? Apple hasn't invented anything new, they're just amazingly great at taking something that already exists to a higher level. Their business model of hardware and software integration is one that cannot and will not be copied by anyone else because it will result in failure and if you remember almost bankrupted Apple. Why does any one or thing need to be the best? These devices might not sell as well as a iPhone nor iPad but they don't have to to be a moneymaker for their perspective companies.

Apple had widgets in '84 and again in OS 7.x way before Konfabulator copied the idea. So... whats your point?

Here's the official rebuttal from the Android / Linux camp:
2600 will r00t j00! 1337 4EVER!!!! Apple si 4 sh33p!!!!

I think the only reason that is use is because there's a supply glut of 1280x800 screens from the Netbook market suppliers. Hence, it's cheaper for tablet makers to buy those parts. I really think that is the reason.