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Mark Twain & Huckleberry Finn....Censored?

post #1 of 16
1/6/11 at 8:26am
Thread Starter 
Mark Twain censored? What's your take?


Huckleberry Finn loses the 'nigger' he loves, thanks to a publisher's ethnic cleansing

Mark Twain, Huckleberry Finn and Nigger Jim: sense or censorship?
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #2 of 16
1/6/11 at 8:31am
What a stupid idea!...
A form of altering history and/or censorship.

If you don't like what he wrote, then don't read it. There's certainly no need to change history and pretend like that stuff wasn't acceptable then!... Society has changed, it's no longer acceptable, but that's no reason to go and change the works of that era.
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #3 of 16
1/6/11 at 9:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

What a stupid idea!...
A form of altering history and/or censorship.

If you don't like what he wrote, then don't read it. There's certainly no need to change history and pretend like that stuff wasn't acceptable then!... Society has changed, it's no longer acceptable, but that's no reason to go and change the works of that era.

It's worse than that...far worse.

What this actually means is something like the following:


1) Twain wrote an anti-racist book. It wasn't non-fiction so he didn't preach a point but used fiction instead. In fiction the rule is

show don't tell. So he 'showed'. And that meant using the word 'nigger'.

2) Now people object. People who are allegedly 'on Twain's side' - ie also anti racist or they would not be complaining.

They want the word replaced with something not offensive.

3) That actually - and this may be the key - completely ruins Twain's 'showing'. What he NOW shows in the 'adjusted' version is not offensive at all.

4) And consequently racism is made more palatable. And so is censorship. And so is revisionism.
An exact analogy would be if Mr Smith was arrested on suspicion of hitting Mr Jones repeatedly over the head with a jackhammer.

Mr Jones gives a statement but in the Court proceedings the words 'bludgeoned with jackhammer' are redacted and replaced with 'tickled with feather'.

What do the Jury make of Mr Smith in that case? What do they think of the case itself? What does it do for precedent and all such future cases?

And of course there is also the issue of messing around with someone else's artwork....that'a another issue.

The Morons are winning the day.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #4 of 16
1/6/11 at 1:46pm
I think we should also censor Nikki Giovanni.
The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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post #5 of 16
1/6/11 at 3:37pm
This is not the first time that these works of literature have been targeted. And it will not be the last I am sure. \
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #6 of 16
1/6/11 at 7:13pm
Finally something political we can all agree on.

Well, that and Westboro Baptist Church.
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post #7 of 16
1/7/11 at 12:50pm
Thread Starter 
Some of James Baldwin's perspective on the word:

James Baldwin Who is the Nigger, 1963

Quote:
When you're called a nigger you look at your father because you think your father can rule the worldevery kid thinks thatand then you discover that your father cannot do anything about it. So you begin to despise your father and you realize, oh, that's what a nigger is.

Quote:
You can only be destroyed by believing that you really are what the white world calls a nigger

-James Baldwin.

Brings back college years of the 60's..will reread Baldwin.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #8 of 16
1/7/11 at 2:21pm
I'm not sure about all of this but I'll tell you a quick story that happened about a year or less before I left the US.

I was at a bar in central Baltimore that had a distinctly left wing bias. I had a conversation about the n word with a black guy next to me who was receptive to me. I basically argued that the n word was just a word and Blacks shouldn't react so strongly to it, instead brush it of as just a word, a word that at the time I thought was given way too much clout.

After I left the bar I crossed the street and was thrown up against a wall by at least three black guys who were really pissed off. Luckily the guy who I'd had the conversation with jumped in and told them to back off, which they did.

I've changed my views to a degree about the word.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #9 of 16
1/7/11 at 3:47pm
Thread Starter 
You can never predict how people will react to the word. I avoid the word altogehter, however I sometimes take offense to rappers using the word and then complain when it is used by a non-black person...guess it depends upon who says it and in what context.

But consider this as how sensitivities can be too much an issue:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controv...22niggardly%22

http://old.nationalreview.com/derbys...hire091702.asp

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/niggardly
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #10 of 16
1/7/11 at 4:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

You can never predict how people will react to the word. I avoid the word altogehter, however I sometimes take offense to rappers using the word and then complain when it is used by a non-black person...guess it depends upon who says it and in what context.

But consider this as how sensitivities can be too much an issue:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controv...22niggardly%22

http://old.nationalreview.com/derbys...hire091702.asp

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/niggardly

It had never occured to me that "niggardly" would be confused with "nigger, though I suppose I'd never given it any thought in that context.

Swapping "nigger" with "slave" I think is disgusting. Art should not be altered. It's ridiculous and very wrong, especially in this case.

Challenge "challenged" retards.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #11 of 16
1/10/11 at 10:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Finally something political we can all agree on.

Well, that and Westboro Baptist Church.

Well done on that one.
To save time, assume I know everything.
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To save time, assume I know everything.
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post #12 of 16
1/10/11 at 5:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Finally something political we can all agree on.

Well, that and Westboro Baptist Church.

We almost agree on WBC. To some of us it's obvious that the media gives WBC a megaphone so they (the media) can use it to score points on their political opponents and paint with a broad brush when it would be far better to ignore the trolls so they go away.
The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
Reply
The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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post #13 of 16
1/10/11 at 8:25pm
Lets not forget John Ashcroft, and the likes...

Cuccinelli...

Steve Jobs...

etc etc etc

The army of dysfunctional taste arbiters feel that it is 'inappropriate' to display semi-risqué images as a part of artistic expression... but when it comes to SELLING PRODUCT even "soft pornography" is just fine.

hmmm...
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #14 of 16
1/12/11 at 7:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Lets not forget John Ashcroft, and the likes...

Cuccinelli...

Steve Jobs...

etc etc etc

The army of dysfunctional taste arbiters feel that it is 'inappropriate' to display semi-risqué images as a part of artistic expression... but when it comes to SELLING PRODUCT even "soft pornography" is just fine.

hmmm...

Anything that frees you is 'bad'.

Anything that pretends to free you but keeps you enslaved is 'good'.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #15 of 16
1/13/11 at 3:50pm
Thread Starter 
I came across this reviewing some articles about the controversy. It comes from film critic Roger Ebert:
Quote:
Ironically, film critic Roger Ebert showed just how contentious the n-word remains days after NewSouths announcement. In a post on Twitter, Ebertwho is married to an African-American womanwrote, Id rather be called a nr than a Slave. After angry responses from hundreds of Twitter followers, Ebert apologized, saying, Ill never be called a nr or a Slave, so I should have shut the up.

Ebert's Comments @
Much ado about the N-thing
Quote:
....In an outbreak of mealy-minded Political Correctness, an edition of Huckleberry Finn has now been published which meticulously replaces the word nigger with the word slave. The argument is often put forward that a young reader might be traumatized by finding a word in a 19th century novel that he hears a hundred times a day. If I were that young reader, I would be more disturbed by the notion that I was incapable of learning how and why it was used. But then I am not that young reader, as I was about to be reminded....

I thought I might go on discuss the whole N-Word and Huckleberry Finn matter here, but after reading the first five of more than 500 comments under Huff's article, I feel adequately defended. That leaves only HuffPost's use of the black bars in the two Tweets reproduced above. Are they more obscene, or more hypocritical? I'm torn.

That's

Quote:
Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it.

__Mark Twain
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
Reply
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
Reply
post #16 of 16
1/23/11 at 9:37am
Thread Starter 
Merriam-Webster and the N word
N*****: Language, History, and Modern Day Discourse

anarchopedia-n*****

The Mighty N-Word

Dick Gregory, Charles Barron, Huck Finn, and the n-word
Quote:
Mark Twain was so far ahead of his time he shouldnt even be talked about on the same day as other people, according to comedian and author Dick Gregory.

Federal Court Clears Way For Jury Trial on Whether There Is A Different Standard for Blacks and Whites In The Use of the*N-Word
Quote:
U.S. District Judge R. Barclay Surrick has decided that a jury should decide the question of whether Burlington was improperly terminated after he used the n word during a June 2007 staff meeting. The staff members were discussing reporter Robin Taylors story about the symbolic burial of the word by the Philadelphia Youth Council of the NAACP. He was fired in 2004 for using the word and has been unable to get another job in the media. He says that two other employees who are black used the word without any action being taken against them.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
Reply
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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