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First look: Apple's Mac App Store simplifies buying, updating software

post #1 of 164
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Apple's new Mac App Store will be instantly familiar to anyone who has used an iOS device, bringing the same look, feel, features and convenience to Mac OS X Snow Leopard.

The Mac App Store was released Thursday morning as a part of the Mac OS X 10.6.6 update for Snow Leopard. Upon applying the update and restarting their Mac, users will find the App Store icon in their dock.

The storefront looks and feels just like its iOS counterparts, with a "Featured" section that greets users when it is first launched. From here, a variety of software options in multiple categories are highlighted by Apple.

The Mac App Store will be instantly familiar to iOS users, with essentially the same layout, including lists available for the top paid, free and grossing applications. The same sections are presented with identical icons, like "Featured," "Top Charts" and "Updates," with one new option: "Purchases." And software is available in the same categories, including "Business," "Games," and "Music."

The App Store serves as a place not only to find new software, but also to manage applications and be notified of updates. Some of Apple's own applications, like the iLife '11 suite, were immediately identified as already installed by the Mac App Store. But on at least one machine, the Work '09 suite of Pages, Numbers and Keynote displayed the option to buy for $19.99 each, even though they were already on the system.

Also, strangely, Apple has highlighted its iWork suite in the Mac App Store, calling it "new," even though the only version available is iWork '09. Last November, AppleInsider reported that Apple has apparently completed development of iWork '11, but the company chose to hold off on releasing it until the Mac App Store opened for business.



In addition, free third-party applications already installed from outside the new App Store are not recognized, but they can be reinstalled with the new storefront. Rather than leaving users two copies of the free software on their Mac, the App Store installation process simply reinstalls the application, but gives it the benefits of the App Store, including licensing associated with an Apple ID and notifications for updates.

There is not currently a way to have the App Store recognize previously installed, paid third-party software, as this would leave Apple out of its 30 percent cut of all App Store sales. That means users who want the convenience of the App Store will need to buy the software again.



Before users can download anything from the store, they must first agree to new iTunes terms and conditions, updated to reflect the availability of the Mac App Store. After a purchase is made and the download initiated, its icon shows up on the dock, and a progress bar is displayed below it on the dock. Here again, the installation process looks and feels much like installing software on an iOS device.

Even the applications themselves will be familiar to iPhone, iPod touch and iPad users. Many of the same popular game titles have already come to Mac among the first thousand App Store options, including "Angry Birds," "Flight Control HD" and "The Incident."



Like with iTunes, users can obtain a link to a specific application and share it with friends. But browsing the Mac App Store in its own application does seem strange, given that iOS App Store purchases can only be made on Mac OS X through iTunes, where users also manage and sync their iPhone and iPad.

The release of the Mac App Store is Apple's first major step toward bringing features from the popular iOS to the Mac platform. Though the App Store is available for Snow Leopard through an update, it will be an integral part of Apple's next major operating system upgrade, Mac OS X 10.7 Lion, due out this summer.

Apple gave a glimpse of Lion at a media event it held last October, noting that it would bring multi-touch gestures, App Home screens and full-screen apps from iOS to its desktop operating system. Also like iOS, applications will have the ability to automatically save, and to resume where they left off when they are relaunched.
post #2 of 164
I assume this won't work with 10.5.8?
post #3 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by cskoeshall View Post

I assume this won't work with 10.5.8?

Nope, just update to 10.6.6 and you will get the Mac App Store.
post #4 of 164
I love how you can easily install your software on multiple machines that you own. It is also nice not to deal with serial numbers. Now I just have to wait for new versions of all my apps so I can buy them through the AppStore. The implementation is better then the iPad because it lists all of your apps, then you can just hit install. Using the buy button to reinstall iPad apps is very unintuitive.

It is nice having the store outside iTunes. Hopefully, they split off the AppStore for the iPhone and iPad too. iTunes does too much right now.

Seem to be some bugs when installing apps on new machines though. They don't show up permanently as an installed in the application until the first time you run them. It switches to installed, but if you switch screens and come back it reverts to uninstalled.
post #5 of 164
Not sure if this affects other people, but do you guys get no prompt when buying apps? I had a friend tell me he accidentally purchased an $80 app. Seems like a bit of a problem to me.
Andrew
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Andrew
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post #6 of 164
Some 3rd party Apps are recognised as Installed by the App Store and will therefore get updates even though they were not bought from the App Store.

Appleinsider needs to get it's facts right!!!
post #7 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post

Not sure if this affects other people, but do you guys get no prompt when buying apps? I had a friend tell me he accidentally purchased an $80 app. Seems like a bit of a problem to me.

I have been asked to enter my Apple ID password for each App that I have purchased, even free Apps.
post #8 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

on at least one machine, the Work '09 suite of Pages, Numbers and Keynote displayed the option to buy for $19.99 each, even though they were already on the system.

An issue that might be fixable with an update to the iWork on the machine. Who knows what they are about to do.

Quote:
In addition, free third-party applications already installed from outside the new App Store are not recognized, but they can be reinstalled with the new storefront. Rather than leaving users two copies of the free software on their Mac, the App Store installation process simply reinstalls the application, but gives it the benefits of the App Store, including licensing associated with an Apple ID and notifications for updates.

If it is/was free I see no issue there. And other reviews are saying that some apps do show as installed. Perhaps via some kind of update to the previous version in recent days to report the info to the store.

Quote:
There is not currently a way to have the App Store recognize previously installed, paid third-party software, as this would leave Apple out of its 30 percent cut of all App Store sales. That means users who want the convenience of the App Store will need to buy the software again.

The developers chose to enter the store, chose if they wanted to stop using all other channels etc. So really the snark is a bit much.

Quote:

The release of the Mac App Store is Apple's first major step toward bringing features from the popular iOS to the Mac platform.

I am not sure where you pulled that from. Seems more like a first step to making it easier to find and buy Mac software, exploding the still popular myth that there is hardly any good third party software for the Mac

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #9 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotWake View Post

Nope, just update to 10.6.6 and you will get the Mac App Store.

By that you mean pay for Snow Leopard and then run Software Update, of course.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #10 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post

Not sure if this affects other people, but do you guys get no prompt when buying apps? I had a friend tell me he accidentally purchased an $80 app. Seems like a bit of a problem to me.

In the iTMS, if you've recently purchased an item, the next time you purchase (within 15 minutes, if I heard right), you don't get the prompt.

You should get a prompt the first time. I just got Sketchbook Express (free) and it asked me to authenticate. Your friend probably had recently bought something on his account a short time before (or a family member using his computer & account might have). Hopefully, that's what happened.
post #11 of 164
[/QUOTE]Not sure if this affects other people, but do you guys get no prompt when buying apps? I had a friend tell me he accidentally purchased an $80 app. Seems like a bit of a problem to me.[/QUOTE]

i did it couple of times on ipad, well, actually it was my 4 yo son who did it. after i talked to itunes support, they just refunded money and left the apps on my ipads. since your friend's app is $80, it might be harder to convince itune support. but your friend should give it a try.
post #12 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

By that you mean pay for Snow Leopard and then run Software Update, of course.

Yes, you have to invest a whole $27 to get Snow Leopard.
post #13 of 164
I tried installing with updater and by DLing the dmg. But it failed to install.\

Digging in the console message, I get:

11.01.06 13:31:36 \tinstalld[236]\tPackageKit: Install Failed: (null)
Error Domain=PKInstallErrorDomain Code=114 UserInfo=0x1020c6da0 "An error occurred while setting up files for deferred installation." Underlying Error=(Error Domain=NSCocoaErrorDomain Code=513 UserInfo=0x10537e950 "You dont have permission to save the file rc.deferred_install in the folder etc." Underlying Error=(Error Domain=NSPOSIXErrorDomain Code=1 "The operation couldnt be completed. Operation not permitted")) {
NSLocalizedDescription = "An error occurred while setting up files for deferred installation.";
NSUnderlyingError = "Error Domain=NSCocoaErrorDomain Code=513 UserInfo=0x10537e950 \\"You don\\U2019t have permission to save the file \\U201crc.deferred_install\\U201d in the folder \\U201cetc\\U201d.\\" Underlying Error=(Error Domain=NSPOSIXErrorDomain Code=1 \\"The operation couldn\\U2019t be completed. Operation not permitted\\")";
}

Repaired permissions. Still no success. Anyone else?
post #14 of 164
Re "The release of the Mac App Store is Apple's first major step toward bringing features from the popular iOS to the Mac platform."

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

I am not sure where you pulled that from. Seems more like a first step to making it easier to find and buy Mac software, exploding the still popular myth that there is hardly any good third party software for the Mac

I believe that a lot of iPhone and iPad users were hoping that many of the features that developers created in the iOS apps would also be developed for applications on the Mac.
post #15 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanbrowne View Post

I tried installing with updater and by DLing the dmg. But it failed to install.\

Digging in the console message, I get:

11.01.06 13:31:36 \tinstalld[236]\tPackageKit: Install Failed: (null)
Error Domain=PKInstallErrorDomain Code=114 UserInfo=0x1020c6da0 "An error occurred while setting up files for deferred installation." Underlying Error=(Error Domain=NSCocoaErrorDomain Code=513 UserInfo=0x10537e950 "You don’t have permission to save the file “rc.deferred_install” in the folder “etc”." Underlying Error=(Error Domain=NSPOSIXErrorDomain Code=1 "The operation couldn’t be completed. Operation not permitted")) {
NSLocalizedDescription = "An error occurred while setting up files for deferred installation.";
NSUnderlyingError = "Error Domain=NSCocoaErrorDomain Code=513 UserInfo=0x10537e950 \\"You don\\U2019t have permission to save the file \\U201crc.deferred_install\\U201d in the folder \\U201cetc\\U201d.\\" Underlying Error=(Error Domain=NSPOSIXErrorDomain Code=1 \\"The operation couldn\\U2019t be completed. Operation not permitted\\")";
}

Repaired permissions. Still no success. Anyone else?

Could you let us know on what Mac and current OS are you attempting this?
post #16 of 164
"Simplifies" is an understatement imho. Picture this: you buy a new Mac, turn it on, it asks for your Apple ID. If you have a MobileMe account you automatically get all your emails, contacts, calendars and now apps installed and are ready to go.
post #17 of 164
I would like to see VLC and Firefox on there just to make my life easier.
post #18 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post



The developers chose to enter the store, chose if they wanted to stop using all other channels etc. So really the snark is a bit much.

It seems to me that Apple is missing a good chance to at least partially reverse the conviction that more people are getting as time goes by with Apple's growth, which is their greed seems to be increasing along with their size and profits.

As a shareholder, I have no problem having Apple forego some cuts from software that people already own when side grading to an app store version. It would be good for developers, customers, and Apple itself to allow people to do this without penalty. It isn't just a matter of the developer deciding to enter the app store. Smaller developers may almost feel forced to comply as their competitors do so.

But this could be a mess. Developers will have to have two versions of an upgrade or update, and consumers will have to decide which way to go. Meanwhile, the costs to Apple are little. If we can do this with free apps, then there is no reason we can't do this with paid apps as well. It's just Apple thinking that if developers are making money on their product, then Apple wants to make their cut. But this would just be for the first generation of software. It would be a non reoccurring expense. It wouldn't cost Apple much. But it would be good publicity.
post #19 of 164
So how do you back up the software purchases? Where does the installer go? And how do you install the software on other computers?
Also, what about different versions? What if you want to keep an older version of the software to run on an older OS on a different Mac?
post #20 of 164
Apple didn't come up with the idea of an app store; several other platforms had something like this before, including the Danger Hiptop and Linux distributions. App stores have also been available from third parties, for example Steam.

Unfortunately, Apple's version is still inferior since it doesn't handle dependency management and doesn't (appear to) allow the use of third party channels.
post #21 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

So how do you back up the software purchases? Where does the installer go? And how do you install the software on other computers?

Your Apple ID is all you need.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #22 of 164
Although iWork 09 is available through the Mac App Store, only those apps from iLife 11 that have been changed since iLife 09 are available. Those apps in iLife 09 that were not changed for iLife 11 (e.g., iWeb) are not available in the Mac App Store.
post #23 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

So how do you back up the software purchases? Where does the installer go? And how do you install the software on other computers?

1. No real need to backup as you can download your purchased Apps as many times from the Mac App Store as you like.

2. Just upgrade to 10.6.6 on the other computers and open the Mac App Store. Then Login to the Mac App Store using the same account you made the purchases with. The go to the Purchases tab and you will see your purchased Apps with an Install button next to them. Click on Install and you are done.
post #24 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by michelle_eris View Post

Although iWork 09 is available through the Mac App Store, only those apps from iLife 11 that have been changed since iLife 09 are available. Those apps in iLife 09 that were not changed for iLife 11 (e.g., iWeb) are not available in the Mac App Store.

iLife comes free on every new Mac.
post #25 of 164
Anyone else notice the icon for app store bears a strange resemblance to iTunes? Looks like Apple is going a new direction with their app icons, curious. Don't know that I like it but don't know that I hate it either.
post #26 of 164
Quote:
There is not currently a way to have the App Store recognize previously installed, paid third-party software, as this would leave Apple out of its 30 percent cut of all App Store sales. That means users who want the convenience of the App Store will need to buy the software again.

Of course there is. Apple's Remote Desktop management software allows restriction of which apps can be run and it recognizes programs even if the name in the Finder has been changed. Apple doesn't deserve a cut of previous sales because they didn't have a Mac app store at the time. If they want this to be a complete solution, they need to offer the same functionality to previously purchased apps which are now in the store.
post #27 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

Yes, you have to invest a whole $27 to get Snow Leopard.

Dealbreaker for some.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jw915 View Post

Unfortunately, Apple's version is still inferior since it doesn't handle dependency management and doesn't (appear to) allow the use of third party channels.

Why the heck would you think Apple would ever allow third-party channels in their App Store?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonder View Post

1. No real need to backup as you can download your purchased Apps as many times from the Mac App Store as you like.

Oh, yeah, I really want to redownload tens of gigabytes of apps. Sounds like a real picnic.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #28 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandySK View Post

Of course there is. Apple's Remote Desktop management software allows restriction of which apps can be run and it recognizes programs even if the name in the Finder has been changed. Apple doesn't deserve a cut of previous sales because they didn't have a Mac app store at the time. If they want this to be a complete solution, they need to offer the same functionality to previously purchased apps which are now in the store.

I don't think this is going to happen. Contrary to the wild claims by some that this is the first step in turning Mac OS X into a walled garden, I think this is more a move on Apple's part to make using Mac OS X as simple as possible, particularly for new users. Existing users are used to obtaining software from multiple sources, and integrating existing purchases from all software vendors into the store is simply too complicated, especially when software vendors have different upgrade policies, and quite probably incomplete customer lists. But, for users new to the platform, getting up and running with the software they need will now be extremely simple, making the choice to switch even easier than it was before.
post #29 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by jw915 View Post

Apple didn't come up with the idea of an app store; several other platforms had something like this before, including the Danger Hiptop and Linux distributions. App stores have also been available from third parties, for example Steam.

Unfortunately, Apple's version is still inferior since it doesn't handle dependency management and doesn't (appear to) allow the use of third party channels.

Fortunately for Apple, nobody's ever heard or or gives a hoot about "Danger Hiptop" and nearly zero percent of Apple's target market (ie, everyone) uses linux.
post #30 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

Yes, you have to invest a whole $27 to get Snow Leopard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Dealbreaker for some.

Right, because people unwilling to spend $27 on Snow Leopard are going to be willing to spend oodles of money buying apps.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonder View Post

1. No real need to backup as you can download your purchased Apps as many times from the Mac App Store as you like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Oh, yeah, I really want to redownload tens of gigabytes of apps. Sounds like a real picnic.

If you were a Mac user, and at all sensible, you'd be using Time Machine to back things up for you. If you're looking for a way to transfer those apps to another computer, bypassing the App Store, most likely you're looking for a way to pirate them and Apple is unlikely to be interested in accommodating you.

But, of course, we know you are just here to complain about anything Apple does.
post #31 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Right, because people unwilling to spend $27 on Snow Leopard are going to be willing to spend oodles of money buying apps.






If you were a Mac user, and at all sensible, you'd be using Time Machine to back things up for you. If you're looking for a way to transfer those apps to another computer, bypassing the App Store, most likely you're looking for a way to pirate them and Apple is unlikely to be interested in accommodating you.

But, of course, we know you are just here to complain about anything Apple does.

Some of us have to buy new hardware. However, I'm not interested in buying new hardware, until 10.7 is released.
post #32 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonder View Post

I have been asked to enter my Apple ID password for each App that I have purchased, even free Apps.

Same here.
post #33 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

I would like to see VLC and Firefox on there just to make my life easier.

Well they use the pretty restrictive GPL license so they won't be able to be on the App Store (not necessarily Apples fault)
post #34 of 164
A few concerns:

No installers: it has been known to happen that sometimes Internet service goes down or your in a location with no connection.

No installers: it has been known to happen that you want to install a compatible version of software on an older OS machine.

Resale: it has been known to happen that you want to sell your older software if you upgrade etc...

No installers: having your Internet cut off because you used 4 months worth of bandwidth re-loading your software could be an issue.

Sounds like a great idea on the surface - for fart app consumers.
I would never trust this service for my professional software and business critical software. If Apple only starts releasing software this way- they are going to loose a lot of customers.

Apple reserves the right to Change their policies at whim, reserves the right to pull their software at will - reserves the right to boot apps from the store on a whim - reserves the right to deny service at will - could be hacked etc...

Anyone willing to put their business in the hands of Apple will get what they deserve. The problem with a walled garden is that while it keeps things out - it also keeps you in... Eventually becoming a prison.

I see this as yet another red flag that Apple is abandoning professionals in favor of the fart app masses. How long before they force all applications to go through the store? You know it's coming.
post #35 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Dealbreaker for some.

if that amount is a dealbreaker, then it's just too bad. I didn't notice Ballmer, when he said that "Windows 7 was Vista done right" offering a cheaper upgrade path, let alone a free one.

Quote:
Oh, yeah, I really want to redownload tens of gigabytes of apps. Sounds like a real picnic.

You can back them up. They end up in your applications folder.
post #36 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmathur View Post

iLife comes free on every new Mac.

But major updates aren't free. iLife '09 came free on my MB Pro. Upgrading to iLife '11 isn't free.
That's why only updated iLife apps appear in the Mac App Store.

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post #37 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

... I didn't notice Ballmer, when he said that "Windows 7 was Vista done right" offering a cheaper upgrade path, let alone a free one. ...

Just for the record. Inside Microsoft, Vista's project name was "Windows 6." Windows 7's internal project name was "Windows 6.1."

Maybe Ballmer should have called Windows Phone 7 "Windows Phone 6.1"...

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

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Sent from my iPhone Simulator

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post #38 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by cskoeshall View Post

I assume this won't work with 10.5.8?

Won't work with System 7 either. I am PISSED!
post #39 of 164
As posted in earlier topic on this today ... the term 'Update' is to be read with caution. If updating any existing 3rd party software go to the web site of the vendor, Apple do not allow upgrade prices and you will pay full retail even if you are eligible for an upgrade discount. I was told by a representative Cabel Sasser at Panic Software and I quote: " this is definitely a shortcoming of the Mac App Store that we hope Apple will address in the future."

I can quite understand it seems excessive paying Apple 30% and offering discounts to Apple for an update however it seems to me that 30% of a much lower price for an update is not totally unreasonable given the other advantages. The system needs to offer two products in a simple illustration; an update version at one price and a full version.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #40 of 164
The fact I can't try before I buy makes it a deal killer. I want to try out several personal finance apps to decide which one I like, but my only choice is to buy all of them?

I could go to the developer site and download the trials. Then I have to delete them and purchase through the app store since it seems the app store recognizes "trials" as installed already. I don't konw if the app store would allow me to "update" software I purchased directly from the developer as that situation hasn't happened for me yet.
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