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First look: Apple's Mac App Store simplifies buying, updating software - Page 4

post #121 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCLI View Post

Actually, 2.04% of Wikipedias pageviews are from Linux devices, and rising. Additionally, 5% of school PCs now run Linux, also rising fast.

...and lots of ATM's run Windows.
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post #122 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

Do you actually use Linux? No, you don't, because "dependency hell" no longer exists for the majority of users.

Like the one's who stay in the "walled garden" of their chosen Linux distro's repositories you mean?

I thought big, mean Apple was being "bad" taking this approach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenclaw View Post

Depends on your definition of hell. The package managers handle most of the dirty work now, but it is still very time consuming to install a program that has dozens of dependencies that need to be installed before it will work. And even then you're not guaranteed that it will compile and run properly.

Adding other repositories/mirrors to your Linux distro's "walled garden" software repositories can quite easily do that.

At least you don't have to recompile the kernel to add things like Bluetooth and 3G modem support these days.
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post #123 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

Well if that's your solution then that just defeats the whole purpose of browsing and buying for apps in one central location.

Of course it doesn't. In the occasional instance where you want to dl a demo, you go to the vendor's site and do so.

For everything else, you get one click installation, multiple machine installation, replacement installation for a new machine, centralized update tracking and update downloads, and OS level app identification if you don't have the right application to open a particular file.

Seems like a pretty good trade-off for occasionally doing what I already do anyway to get a demo.
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post #124 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I don't understand any of those complaints. None of them are real. None are any different than what's going on now. It's just an easier way of doing things. Most apps don't have installers anyway. it's just a drag and drop. The apps that will need installers will have them built-in.

You're not allowed to sell software without getting the permission of the owner of the copyright, so unless you don't mind doing something illegal, which I guess you don't, it's a moot issue. The software you buy is in your applications folder, so you can back them up all you want. no need to re-download them.

As for conditions changing, do you know of any developer, such as MS who doesn't have conditions that are at least as complex and difficult? I don't. Apple is much better in this regard.

So let me get this straight...

You don't understand that it's possible to not have an internet connection
You don't understand that you can't get an internet connection everywhere on the planet
You don't understand that the internet is provided by services that sometimes fail
You don't understand that you can't just burn a copy of your application folder and have them backed up
You don't understand that versions of Mac OS change
You don't understand that not all computers run the newest OS all of the time
You don't understand that there is no way to have a legacy copy of software with the app store
You don't understand that you CAN re-sell media and software legally
You don't understand that there are hackers

Dude... That's a lot of very elementary concepts that you should understand.

My concerns are valid. Regardless of your rather long list of things you don't understand.

Answer this... anyone, if you can:
What happens if you buy a copy of software from the app store and Apple decides to kill it? You can't just go get updates from the developer - they have no record of you. Also, the nature in which the app store software is packaged, it will not be compatible with 3rd party updates.
What if Apple pulls shit like they did with the mobile app store where versions of software don't work without the newest OS or vise versa? they brick you? Your forced to start upgrading at Apple's whim?

No business or institution is going to put themselves in a position where they risk going out of business on Steve Job's whim. Get real.

It's a fart app store. That's it.

Not overly worried. There will always be resistance to these totalitarian business practices by corporations to control the population and demand obedience.

cheers
post #125 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

That's one of the best stories I've read here yet. Thanks for that. Posts like yours make it worth logging in here.

So kind of you to say MacR. All the best!
post #126 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

So let me get this straight...

...snip...

It's a fart app store. That's it.

Not overly worried. There will always be resistance to these totalitarian business practices by corporations to control the population and demand obedience.

cheers

What if you were in the highlands of New Guinea and your battery went flat and there was no electricity and no brick and mortar software stores anywhere... blah, blah, blah.

What a crock of "what ifs".

So which fart Apps are you referring to, as there are none?

"Search results for"fart"

Did you mean Kart?"

is the result I got.

Were you one of the whiners who kept going on about "pull my finger" being pulled from the App store, so much so that Apple reinstated it opening the floodgates for "Fart Apps".

Don't you think it's a bit contradictory to whine about Apples policies re: removal of fart Apps then try and denigrate Apples efforts as "nothing but Fart App stores".

You wanted it you got it.

Ignore list time, troll.
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post #127 of 164
I'm trying to figure out what it is about Apple launching the Mac App Store that would bring out Linux partisans.
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post #128 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I'm trying to figure out what it is about Apple launching the Mac App Store that would bring out Linux partisans.

Linux distros have an easy-for-Linux method of installing apps. I remember Autopackager(?) but I think that is now defunct.

Bottom line: They see an app that is used to install other apps, draw the obvious comparison even though it stops there, and assume Apple is copying from Linux.
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post #129 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I'm trying to figure out what it is about Apple launching the Mac App Store that would bring out Linux partisans.

The fact people are claiming Apple's App Store to be "Innovative". Its pretty, but far from new.
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post #130 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I'm trying to figure out what it is about Apple launching the Mac App Store that would bring out Linux partisans.

I know, it is weird. I'm the biggest Linux fan you'll meet but it has nothing to do with Apple. I use Mac for everything desktop and productivity and Linux for servers. There really isn't any overlap.

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post #131 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

The fact people are claiming Apple's App Store to be "Innovative". Its pretty, but far from new.

Because they did it with the iPhone/iPad 3 years earlier?
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post #132 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

So let me get this straight...

You don't understand that it's possible to not have an internet connection
You don't understand that you can't get an internet connection everywhere on the planet
You don't understand that the internet is provided by services that sometimes fail
You don't understand that you can't just burn a copy of your application folder and have them backed up
You don't understand that versions of Mac OS change
You don't understand that not all computers run the newest OS all of the time
You don't understand that there is no way to have a legacy copy of software with the app store
You don't understand that you CAN re-sell media and software legally
You don't understand that there are hackers

Agree with all the above. Not sure what hackers have to do with it, except to say that If you can't connect to the Internet, then you probably don't have to worry about the hackers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

Answer this... anyone, if you can:
What happens if you buy a copy of software from the app store and Apple decides to kill it?

By "kill it" do you mean where Apple quits offering the app for sale that you purchased? Or do you mean that Apple scans your computer and deletes it without your consent. If the former, then I'd say Apple is within their right to stop offering any app for sale at any time and they don't have to say why. Would it be wise? No. But, legal? Yes. It's their store they can do what they want with it. And it's just one of many distribution channels for developers to get their apps to users. If you meant the latter, then I don't think Apple cares so much about what apps you have on your computer that they will pause development of their next great product just so they can give you the amount of time and energy required to see what's on your computer and then decide what to delete. If you're worried, you can always move somewhere that has no Internet. There are places like that as we know you understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

You can't just go get updates from the developer - they have no record of you.

Why can't you get update from the developer? You run an update. It checks to see that the software is installed. The software gets updated. Why do they need a record of you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

Also, the nature in which the app store software is packaged, it will not be compatible with 3rd party updates.

What is different about how the app store software is packaged? By "3rd party updates" do you mean add-ons and plug-ins? If so, then it is the responsibility of 3rd party plug-in developers to maintain compatibility by updating their plug-ins. Or by "3rd party updates" did you mean jail breaking? Well, Macs aren't really in jail anyway. (Neither is iPhone, but that's for a different thread.) Or did you mean hacks to avoid paying for software? If so, then you need to support developers by buying their software instead of stealing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

What if Apple pulls shit like they did with the mobile app store where versions of software don't work without the newest OS or vise versa?

And what if Apple switches to Intel processors enabling the addition of powerful features to iMovie that even a G5 can't run? Oh wait...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

they brick you?

Not intentionally. If it breaks, it breaks. Software doesn't automatically work with other software. It has to be made that way. Very precisely. Apple should be free to make whatever changes they feel are necessary to improve their platform. It is the responsibility of 3rd party developers to develop apps that work well on the platform. It is also the responsibility of 3rd party developers to update their apps when the time comes. If a method is known to be deprecated shortly, then stop using that method and start using the method that replaces it. Platform leads; end user apps follow. Not vice verse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

Your forced to start upgrading at Apple's whim?

Nobody is forcing you to upgrade. But when you see what cool new features they add, you'll probably want to. It's frustrating if you are unable to right away. Just work with and be content with what you've got. If you plan for upgrades ahead of time, you increase your chances of being able to when the time comes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

It's a fart app store. That's it.

If by "fart app store" you mean a store where I can purchase iMovie '11 and make a movie of myself passing wind than maybe you are correct. I prefer making movies of my family for the aunts, uncles, and grand parents to enjoy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

Not overly worried.

Are you sure about that?
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post #133 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I know, it is weird. I'm the biggest Linux fan you'll meet but it has nothing to do with Apple. I use Mac for everything desktop and productivity and Linux for servers. There really isn't any overlap.

There have been apps to install other apps for as long as I can remember, but to claim that Apple didnt innovate anything with the Mac App Store is like saying that because cut/copy/paste existed that they didnt innovate anything getting it to work so well on iOS.
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post #134 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Because they did it with the iPhone/iPad 3 years earlier?

I remember software repos before the iOS devices and their App Store.

Yes, the Apple App Store is different than the Linux model. By far prettier, and has more apps you can pay for. The concept of a centralized location for downloading computer software as being new or innovative is the only point of contention I have. How Apple does it, seems to be much more user friendly.

Apple does this VERY well: take existing ideas, roll them into a pretty and marketable packages, hype it up, and sell like crazy. Sometimes, I wish I was a shareholder, as they are making a huge profit off of it!
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post #135 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Oops! Sorry, Mac. Some of my best friends are prostitutes!

They're only your friends because you pay them to be.
post #136 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

I remember software repos before the iOS devices and their App Store.

Yes, the Apple App Store is different than the Linux model. By far prettier, and has more apps you can pay for. The concept of a centralized location for downloading computer software as being new or innovative is the only point of contention I have. How Apple does it, seems to be much more user friendly.

Apple does this VERY well: take existing ideas, roll them into a pretty and marketable packages, hype it up, and sell like crazy. Sometimes, I wish I was a shareholder, as they are making a huge profit off of it!

I say its a lot more than making it pretty. They are also making it more streamlined. This is harder than I suspect most people assume or wouldnt everything be streamlined and prettified?
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post #137 of 164
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post #139 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

I've seen no "partisans" here (I can't even say with any confidence that I know what a "partisan" is in the context of computer operating systems. Ah, how I miss the early Mac community).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mTUmczVdik
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post #140 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

By that you mean pay for Snow Leopard and then run Software Update, of course.

Well, SL is still being offered at apple website for 29.95 .... pretty good deal, imho.
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post #141 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Well, SL is still being offered at apple website for 29.95 .... pretty good deal, imho.

Speaking of SL, I wonder if it’ll be feasible in the future for Apple to push paid for Mac system updates through a service like Mac App Store. I’d think it would first have to dynamically provision a partition for storing the installation files but that doesn’t seem like much of an issue to me so long as it checks and configures beforehand.

I mention this because when the optical drives start to get downsized the most likely option will be to use flash drives to sell your OS on physical media . While this is fine for buying a new Mac as the overall cost is minimal and can countered by the savings from the optical drive, sold only as an OS upgrade would substantially add to the cost is Apple continues these inexpensive upgrades?
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post #142 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Let me know when they show up.

Well, let's see, there's NCLI who apparently registered specifically to defend the honor of Ubuntu, Camroid v27 who's freaking sig is "Go Linux, Choose a Flavor!", various anybody-but-Apple sorts using Linux as a stalking horse to establish the usual "Apple never innovates" tedium, and you, who have seen fit to link to Linux usage statistics in a thread about the Mac App Store, for reasons best known to you.

Quote:
I've seen no "partisans" here (I can't even say with any confidence that I know what a "partisan" is in the context of computer operating systems. Ah, how I miss the early Mac community).

Then you don't know what the word partisan means. Perhaps you found the early Mac community to be a little vague on vocabulary?

Quote:
What I've seen is a couple of Mac users who also use Linux and enjoy them both.

Then you're both not paying attention and making things up.

Quote:
All OSes have at least some merit, and none of them are completely innovative, each drawing from the others and what came before them.

Use what you like to use. Enjoy.

I do use what I like to use. What does that have to do with people bleating about Linux on a thread on a Mac enthusiast site about the opening of the Mac App Store? Many Mac users citing usage numbers on Linux boards?
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post #143 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by esummers View Post

I love how you can easily install your software on multiple machines that you own. It is also nice not to deal with serial numbers. Now I just have to wait for new versions of all my apps so I can buy them through the AppStore. The implementation is better then the iPad because it lists all of your apps, then you can just hit install. Using the buy button to reinstall iPad apps is very unintuitive.

Uh, I actually WANT my serial numbers. Have to see if indeed I can install what I bought on my other machines.

And the listing of all your apps doesn't work, because it isn't show installed apps (even paid ones I own licenses for) as 'installed".
post #144 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Dealbreaker for some.



Why the heck would you think Apple would ever allow third-party channels in their App Store?



Oh, yeah, I really want to redownload tens of gigabytes of apps. Sounds like a real picnic.


Hey, Tallest Skil, Ya're REALLY TROLL, Aren't Ya!!!!!!!!!!!?????????


Ya Another Name MUST BE " Blackintosh " Zombi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And Ya Haven't Answered YET My Last Question!


What Was Ya Estimate of i-Pad Selling Before Its Actual Launch, EHHHHHHHHHHHHHh?????????????
post #145 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Which banks? A good friend of mine makes ATM software for one of the biggies, and he says they don't let Windows anywhere near anyone's money because it's just not safe enough.

You'll find a few here if you scroll down:-

http://www.techmynd.com/50-plus-blue...ays-in-public/
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post #146 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Interesting, assuming it's accurate. Linux growth is slowing down though. Their marketshare increase is coming from Windows.

It's safe t assume that it is accurate. And yes, the growth is coming from Windows, who have the biggest marketshare, so that makes sense. I don't see growth slowing much though.
post #147 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Mac people talking about Linux in 2011 sound like Windows people talking about Mac in 1997.

Google: linux dependency hell
Result: 125K results

Google: ubuntu dependency hell
Result: 21,100 results.

Google: ubuntu sound broken
Result: 1.2M results

At least in 1997 sound actually worked on Macs.

If there is a Linux equivalent of Steve that just took over (like Jobs did for Apple in '97) the Linux mothership that would be great. But Shuttleworth is no Jobs...and WTF do the 300 people actually DO at Canonical? Reskin Gnome to yet another crappy shade of brown?

Yeah, sure it's better than you average basement distro but geez...in comparison NeXT had 540 employees AND they built hardware. Look what THEY built. Give me Jobs and six people in blue jeans over RMS or Shuttleworth and the FOSS horde of coders any day of the week.
post #148 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

I remember software repos before the iOS devices and their App Store.

Linux folks claiming ownership of repos is interesting given that BSD ports came into being around the same time frame. The first commit of ports to the FreeBSD CVS repository was around '93. Not sure when pre-compiled packages first appeared in ports.
post #149 of 164
Wow, with the linux, BSD and OS X lovers on board this thread could get real dangerous real fast.

thats fighting talk. Right there.
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post #150 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onhka View Post

Could you let us know on what Mac and current OS are you attempting this?

If the OP was using a developer beta build of 10.6.5 they might also not be able to update to 10.6.6. They'd have to grab the 10.6.5 Combo Updater (977MB) and update to the official 10.6.5 first, then move to 10.6.6. Don't know if that was his issue though, just tossing that out.
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post #151 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Wow, with the linux, BSD and OS X lovers on board this thread could get real dangerous real fast.

thats fighting talk. Right there.

Nah. BSD folks typically make horrid zealots. Put is this way...if the bsd community was like the linux community there would be some asshat demanding that OS X be called BSD/OS X because, after all, the userland is all from FreeBSD...and OS X would be nothing more than a fancy desktop and the mach kernel without it.

At most we have Theo. He's no RMS...and I mean that in a good way.
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"It's nothing new, of course. Mas OS X has been a consistency nightmare for years now, with boatloads of different themes, and functionally identical UI elements that look entirely different from one another. Where Apple once stood at the forefront of consistent, sensible UI design (Platinum, I salute you!), the company took a left turn to bananas a few years ago."

Amen.

http://www.osnews.com/story/24218/Co...hioned_Stodgy_
post #158 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Relax. Why is it Mac folks have gotten so angry in recent years?

Why is wondering after your resistance to simple definitions "angry"? Why are Linux fans so disingenuous?

Quote:
Partisan is normally reserved for politics, as in its root word, "party". I suppose its usage could be extended to fandom of all sorts, and no doubt you could dig up a link to some definition supporting that in a further effort to make me look foolish. Mea culpa, you win on that if that's what you like to do.

So I see that your main rhetorical gambit is to actually argue your point, then finish by affecting this "it's all cool, don't really care" thing. If you don't really care why are you bothering to argue?

For what its worth, "partisan" is commonly used to mean "fervent supporter" of most anything, and given the near religious zealotry of OS fandom is particularly apt in that case. I don't want to make anyone look "foolish", I just care about what words mean.

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All I'm saying is that this notion that there can only be one OS in the world for all possible needs is a bit silly. Bashing Linux in a Mac forum obviates an opportunity for partnership that can help erode Microsoft's stranglehold on the industry, with Mac taking the top end and Linux eating away at the bottom.

Again, I don't really care about Linux one way or the other. Don't have anything against it. I just took note that it struck me as funny or odd that, in a thread on the Mac App Store, there seemed to be a lot of strenuous Linux, yes, partisanship. Seemingly out of nowhere. Which suggests a constituency that perhaps is a bit thin skinned about the status of their platform, your protestations of mellow nonsectarianism notwithstanding. Hopefully we won't have to worry about sects and religion and inapplicability.

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Let people use what they enjoy, and enjoy your own choice as well.

Yes, right. So it shouldn't be necessary to get all marketshare-y about stuff, since we're just chillin', yes?


Quote:
IIRC those stats were in response to a post questioning market share. Had the question not been raised, no one would have taken the time to link to the stats.

But why bother? Everybody should just use what they like, what does it matter if they get carried away with promoting their choice? You can't really keep acting like you're above the fray because it's all cool by you while policing threads for Linux Error. You know?

Quote:
You'd be surprised. Lots of Windows apologists too. Fanboi trollers show up all over the place, advocating all sorts of things. It's the Internet; merde happens.

Yes, I would be surprised if Mac users were showing up on Linux threads at all, much less in the numbers that various "Mac people are clueless and must be schooled" types seem to haunt Mac discussions.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

I would like to see VLC and Firefox on there just to make my life easier.

I'm sure they will be on there before too long. With VLC already on iOS, it won't take long for it to hit the Mac App Store.
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