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Still Blaming Bush. In 2012?

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
Speaker-in-Exile Nancy Pelosi is blaming the Bush Administration two years into Obama's Presidency:

Quote:
"We still would have lost the election because we had 9.5% unemployment. Let's take it where that came from. The policies of George W. Bush and the Republican support for his initiatives, tax cuts are for the wealth, recklessness by some," Minority Leader Pelosi told CNN.

Now, I realize that this will be perceived as me complaining and lambasting those who are still blaming the Bush Administration. But, it's not intended that way. I'm honestly wondering when mainstream politicians (let's change that..."well known" politicians) will stop blaming George Bush for their problems. By now, they must have realized that this strategy has failed miserably. They got a lot of mileage out it up to four years after Bush was last on the ballot. But I think Bush is basically a distant memory to most people now. They are certainly not going to blame him over the current administration and most recent Congress. Doing so is obviously 1) Misguided to begin with and 2) Pointless. It's misguided because it's nearly impossible to show that Bush caused our current economic problems and it's pointless because it's the current Congress and Admin that are supposed to "fix" those problems. They've had two full years. Congress had four full years.

In fact, I can't recall a time where the Congress and Administration blamed the previous administration for problems for such a long time. I have to wonder how much anti-Bush rhetoric Obama will use in 2012. My instincts tell me that he will try to tie his GOP opponent to Bush. But I don't think that is going to fly. The line "we can't just continue the failed policies of the Bush Administration" is going to fall very flat, I think. It also doesn't make sense, as right now there isn't a sane person alive that believes that Obama's policies have benefited the country as of yet. There are many that argue those policies WILL benefit the country. But not many folks are out there claiming they have do so at this point.

However, it's difficult to argue that 9.4% unemployment (19% broader unemployment), quadrupled deficits, $3.2 trillion added to the debt in two years and two to three million jobs lost constitutes anything other than failure. One can claim the stimulus "saved" jobs that otherwise would have been lost, but there is really no proof of that. One can rightly note that the Bush Administration added to the deficit and started the bailouts, but it's hard to argue that things haven't gotten much worse under Obama.

So, when does it stop? And if it doesn't, will blaming Bush work in 2012?
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post #2 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

...Now, I realize that this will be perceived as me complaining and lambasting those who are still blaming the Bush Administration. But, it's not intended that way. I'm honestly wondering when mainstream politicians (let's change that..."well known" politicians) will stop blaming George Bush for their problems. ...

It's not intended that way ???? Really???
Then why did you even post what I quoted?... you could have just as easily DELETED "mainstream" and replaced it with "well known". Instead, you chose to leave both and make a little tongue-in-cheek lambast which you "claimed" you weren't doing.

While I agree with the point of your post, you really come off looking like you're just trying to instigate a flame-fest rather than start a civil discussion.
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #3 of 26
The pot calling the kettle? One side of the (same) coin is dirty, while the other is shining and spotless?

How much longer is the media-infantilized and media-misinformed US public going to contribute to the fundamental lie that the prevailing element in government, regardless of whether they are cheerleading for the Red Team or the Blue Team, is on their side.. ie representing we the people?

Plutocracy is the name of the game in US politics.
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #4 of 26
I really don't mean to be lambasting any Republicans here, but some of them are assholes.

See what I did there?

It's called lying. Not about the asshole part. But about the intention. OF COURSE I MEANT IT, SILLY.
post #5 of 26
I blame Clinton for failing at health care reform decades ago.
post #6 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I really don't mean to be lambasting any Republicans here, but some of them are assholes.

See what I did there?

It's called lying. Not about the asshole part. But about the intention. OF COURSE I MEANT IT, SILLY.

The Democrats (sic) are equally"asshole" if one is compelled to get into the namecalling stuff.

The recently passed "health care" act is a program to enrich the insurance industry. The whole damn package was written and vetted by those corporate parasites, yet another load of steaming dogturd legislation designed to profiteer on people's sickness and pain. The democrats are as guilty as the republicans in sticking a middle finger up at the US public, yet again. The legislation is so draconian that those who fail to purchase insurance may be prosecuted, with penalties of up to 5 years in prison and a fine of up to $250.000.

Blaming Bush is shortsighted and unproductive beyond all description. Yes, Bush is the "Idiot Son of an Asshole", but Obama, Pelosi and the weasels of the democratic party are no goddamned better. I quite honestly prefer BushCorp to ObamaCorp; at least they were arrogant enough to make anyone who didnt absorb the corporate media lies and BS, realize that they were the enemy of America. BushCorp made no pretense about its intent, and were upfront and almost honest (about the only thing they didnt lie about!). ObamaCorp is doing the same sh¡t, but they're in stealth mode. They are as much the enemy of this nation as the previous batch. Staunch Democrats believe they have a friend in DC. Ha! Suckers. Staunch Republicans think Obama is a "socialist"! Suckers likewise. Yeah.. an inverted socialist more like, with global big business, warmongers, banks and the entire corporate cartel of criminals being the beneficiaries of $TRILLIONS in welfare, extorted from the uninformed taxpayers.

Throw them ALL out of office for all I care. By whatever means necessary...
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their Constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." Abraham Lincoln.

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #7 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

I blame Clinton for failing at health care reform decades ago.

Ya, if only he had passed the REPUBLICAN SPONSORED BOB DOLE healthcare bill, we'd have THE SAME FUCKING REFORM that the idiots on the right have lost their shit over.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #8 of 26
Sammi, you missed my point. My point wasn't about Republicans, or Democrats. It was about the insincerity of preceding an insult with a disclaimer that you don't intend to insult.

It's like saying, "I don't dislike Asian people, but most of them are really annoying." The first part of that statement is clearly a lie.

"Now, I realize that this will be perceived as me complaining and lambasting those who are still blaming the Bush Administration. But, it's not intended that way. I'm honestly wondering when mainstream politicians (let's change that..."well known" politicians) will stop blaming George Bush for their problems"

This is where SDW shows his colors.
post #9 of 26
Now, SDW, I'll anser your post in good faith.

People will stop blaming the Bush Administration when it' clear that the effects of the Buh Administration policies are no longer in play. Most intelligent, honest, and unbiased people believe we're nowhere near that mark at this moment, so don't expect such sentiment to go away any time soon.
post #10 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Now, Trumpy, I'll anser your post in good faith.

People will stop blaming the Bush Administration when it' clear that the effects of the Buh Administration policies are no longer in play. Most intelligent, honest, and unbiased people believe we're nowhere near that mark at this moment, so don't expect such sentiment to go away any time soon.

Huh? Not my post.

How can you even call them Bush administration effects when Obama has had the opportunity to change the (supposed) effects and has failed to do so or and has made it worse?

Remember PAYGO? Remember Guantanamo? Remember irresponsible deficit spending? Remember bringing the troops home, spending the savings domestically,.......... ad nauseum.

Go back and read the man's inaugural address. He literally believes he can say whatever he wants and people will buy it. So if you want to fix that fact, stop assigning the blame elsewhere and give it to whom it belongs.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #11 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Huh? Not my post.

How can you even call them Bush administration effects when Obama has had the opportunity to change the (supposed) effects and has failed to do so or and has made it worse?

Remember PAYGO? Remember Guantanamo? Remember irresponsible deficit spending? Remember bringing the troops home, spending the savings domestically,.......... ad nauseum.

Go back and read the man's inaugural address. He literally believes he can say whatever he wants and people will buy it. So if you want to fix that fact, stop assigning the blame elsewhere and give it to whom it belongs.

Haha sorry for thinking this was your thread, Trump.

My point still stands.

Bush screwed up the economy. Obama hasn't fixed it. That doesn't negate the fact that Bush screwed up the economy. So why do people have to ignore that fact? And just because I and others are still blaming Bush doesn't mean we're also not blaming Obama for not keeping his campaign promises.
post #12 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Haha sorry for thinking this was your thread, Trump.

My point still stands.

Bush screwed up the economy. Obama hasn't fixed it. That doesn't negate the fact that Bush screwed up the economy. So why do people have to ignore that fact? And just because I and others are still blaming Bush doesn't mean we're also not blaming Obama for not keeping his campaign promises.

Do you deny that when Bush had a Republican house and a recession brought on by the tech bubble popping, that he did bring the country out of recession?

Has Obama done the same when given even better variables?

No one should deny the fact that recessions occur no matter who is President. Resources invariably become misallocated within the economy. A recession is the pain that goes with correcting those imbalances. Under Bush the economy recovered quickly.

The reason it hasn't under Obama is because government spending attempts to prop up those pieces of the economy where resources were misallocated, has crowded out private enterprise with government spending, and lastly private industry won't act in instances where the cost is too high (see health care) or where the rules may be arbitrarily changed. (See pretty much all energy and carbon trades/taxes/etc.)

You are a business owner. The government would prefer you build a new factory and hire new workers for that factory. However they pass a health care bill that no one can understand, that no one has read and it will cost you X amount per as yet unhired employee. You decide you want to build the factory but now are concerned because the costs of the materials are tripling due to green concerns and demands that all the industries that make those materials have a zero footprint. The fleet of vehicles to move your products now costs a third more to meet new environmental concerns, etc. Add to this a competitor got a $10 million dollar grant from the government for promising to create green jobs. In reality the jobs have been created overseas and the "jobs" here are merely installing the finished products on people's homes where the absurdly overpriced products are covered by the fact that you get tax rebates and credits on them. You try to calculate the energy costs on your factory for the next ten years but the huge variable in the equation is government with projections showing 200-1000% increases in electrical rates.

Each time a decision is made, the uncertainty goes up, the cost goes up, and the rate of return goes down.

It becomes easier to sit on your money and get a guaranteed lower rate of return dealing with variables you can more easily control. That is what is happening on a national level. This isn't made up stuff, AT&T (since we all follow Apple related stuff here) took a BILLION dollar charge in the first quarter related to health care and the Obama plan. Exemptions are being passed out based on who you know and what you claim to do. It is pure crony capitalism using the intent game and to the tune of a trillion dollars in deficit spending a year and that is why things haven't gotten better.

Bush has nothing to do with that.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #13 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Speaker-in-Exile Nancy Pelosi ishttp://nation.foxnews.com/nancy-pelo...e-because-bush blaming the Bush Administration two years into Obama's Presidency:



Now, I realize that this will be perceived as me complaining and lambasting those who are still blaming the Bush Administration. But, it's not intended that way. I'm honestly wondering when mainstream politicians (let's change that..."well known" politicians) will stop blaming George Bush for their problems. By now, they must have realized that this strategy has failed miserably. They got a lot of mileage out it up to four years after Bush was last on the ballot. But I think Bush is basically a distant memory to most people now. They are certainly not going to blame him over the current administration and most recent Congress. Doing so is obviously 1) Misguided to begin with and 2) Pointless. It's misguided because it's nearly impossible to show that Bush caused our current economic problems and it's pointless because it's the current Congress and Admin that are supposed to "fix" those problems. They've had two full years. Congress had four full years.

In fact, I can't recall a time where the Congress and Administration blamed the previous administration for problems for such a long time. I have to wonder how much anti-Bush rhetoric Obama will use in 2012. My instincts tell me that he will try to tie his GOP opponent to Bush. But I don't think that is going to fly. The line "we can't just continue the failed policies of the Bush Administration" is going to fall very flat, I think. It also doesn't make sense, as right now there isn't a sane person alive that believes that Obama's policies have benefited the country as of yet. There are many that argue those policies WILL benefit the country. But not many folks are out there claiming they have do so at this point.

However, it's difficult to argue that 9.4% unemployment (19% broader unemployment), quadrupled deficits, $3.2 trillion added to the debt in two years and two to three million jobs lost constitutes anything other than failure. One can claim the stimulus "saved" jobs that otherwise would have been lost, but there is really no proof of that. One can rightly note that the Bush Administration added to the deficit and started the bailouts, but it's hard to argue that things haven't gotten much worse under Obama.

So, when does it stop? And if it doesn't, will blaming Bush work in 2012?

Bush will be blamed as a complete failure when he was president for 8 horrible years.He fucked up the economy with a worthless war in Iraq costing billions of dollars.Obama at least tried with this stimulus concept which did create some jobs.He walked right into shit after Bush left us in this mess.
post #14 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

It's not intended that way ???? Really???
Then why did you even post what I quoted?... you could have just as easily DELETED "mainstream" and replaced it with "well known". Instead, you chose to leave both and make a little tongue-in-cheek lambast which you "claimed" you weren't doing.

While I agree with the point of your post, you really come off looking like you're just trying to instigate a flame-fest rather than start a civil discussion.

No one asked you to deconstruct my post and tell me what I actually mean, so go screw. I posted it as a little dig. I never claimed to be completely neutral. I can't stand Pelosi and think she is a mentally ill clown. Clearly she's not the only one.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #15 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

The pot calling the kettle? One side of the (same) coin is dirty, while the other is shining and spotless?

How much longer is the media-infantilized and media-misinformed US public going to contribute to the fundamental lie that the prevailing element in government, regardless of whether they are cheerleading for the Red Team or the Blue Team, is on their side.. ie representing we the people?

Plutocracy is the name of the game in US politics.

I'm simply asking when people here think that politicians will stop blaming the Bush administration. I agree that the populace tends to suit up with their Red and Blue Team jerseys. What I'm saying is I don't recall a time where the previous administration was blamed for this long. I don't recall Bush and GOP doing it anywhere near as much two years into their governing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I really don't mean to be lambasting any Republicans here, but some of them are assholes.

See what I did there?

It's called lying. Not about the asshole part. But about the intention. OF COURSE I MEANT IT, SILLY.

I didn't do anything like that. I went back and read my OP again. The only thing I did was insert a dig a Pelosi. At least, that is all I intended to do. I suppose the "mainstream/well known" comment could have been taken to mean all Democrats. That really wasn't my intention. Of course, there are others outside the leadership that have engaged in the blame game just as frequently, I suppose.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Now, SDW, I'll anser your post in good faith.

People will stop blaming the Bush Administration when it' clear that the effects of the Buh Administration policies are no longer in play. Most intelligent, honest, and unbiased people believe we're nowhere near that mark at this moment, so don't expect such sentiment to go away any time soon.

That's the point, though. What "effects" are you talking about? What Bush policies caused our current economic situation? You can't honestly believe that the bailouts and tax cuts for "the rich" CAUSED our situation, can you? You can't honestly believe that Bush caused the housing meltdown, can you? You can't honestly believe that $400 billion deficits were the cause of $1.4 trillion deficits, can you?

The larger point is that even if you DO believe those things, at what point does an administration/party take responsibility for its OWN actions? It's been two years. The stimulus failed. We've quadrupled deficit spending. The dollar is even weaker. Congress was dysfunctional over the past two years, ramming through a massive, bloated, corrupt healthcare bill with zero bipartisan support, not to mention failing to pass a budget. We're more embroiled than ever in a war that just might become a true quagmire. Our international standing is weaker than ever. The world is no more peaceful. Unemployment is still over 9%, and only went down because people stopped looking for work. None of these things can be blamed on the Bush Administration. Not one. Yet there stands Obama, Pelosi and Reid..who had complete control of the process the last two years--blaming the previous administration and Congress pre-2006. WTF?
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post #16 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerald apple View Post

Bush will be blamed as a complete failure when he was president for 8 horrible years.He fucked up the economy with a worthless war in Iraq costing billions of dollars.Obama at least tried with this stimulus concept which did create some jobs.He walked right into shit after Bush left us in this mess.

This is exactly the kind of cluelessness that infects our national political discourse. You provide no support whatsoever for your statements. You just talk. And talk. And talk some more, spewing forth meaningless partisan rhetoric. You have no interest in actually examining which policies were effective and beneficial, and which ones were ineffective and harmful. You simply put on your Team Blue jersey and sit down with a beer to root for your team. Pathetic.
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post #17 of 26
Quote:
Yeah, pathetic when blue teamers do that. *quickly hides the thousands of dollars of red team memorabilia and puts on a sweater to cover the "RED 4 LIFE" t-shirt*


I think this is what you meant, SDW.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #18 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I think this is what you meant, SDW.

As if you have any clue. Perhaps if you ever had an original thought, you could focusing on expressing it instead of telling others what they believe.
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post #19 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Ya, if only he had passed the REPUBLICAN SPONSORED BOB DOLE healthcare bill, we'd have THE SAME FUCKING REFORM that the idiots on the right have lost their shit over.

I doubt that.
post #20 of 26
You really don't know that the key points you conservatives have railed against in the health bill are the exact points your side wanted fifteen years ago? Not surprising.

From "The New Republic", you know, a publication with a very conservative bias:

Quote:
And indeed, this is exactly the case. Obama's plan closely mirrors three proposals that have attracted the support of Republicans who reside within their party's mainstream: The first is the 1993 Senate Republican health plan, which is compared with Obama's plan here, with the similarity endorsed by former Republican Senator Dave Durenberger here. The second is the Bipartisan Policy Center plan, endorsed by Bob Dole, Howard baker, George Mitchell and Tom Daschle, which is compared to Obama's plan here. And the third, of course, is Mitt Romney's Massachusetts plan, which was crafted by the same economist who helped create Obama's plan, and which is rhetorically indistinguishable from Obama's. (The main difference are that Obama's plan cuts Medicare and imposes numerous other cost-saving measures -- which is to say, attempting to craft a national version of Romney's plan would result in something substantially more liberal than Obama's proposal.

http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-cha...alth-care-plan

More choice bits:

Quote:
Today, of course, Republicans deem the individual mandate unconstitutional. Every Senate Republicans voted for a resolution calling the mandate unconstitutional, even though several of them had negotiated over plans containing such a mandate without objecting to it, and one of them Olympia Snowe, voted out of committee a plan with an individual mandate.

Obama is signing what was, until recently, a moderate Republican health care plan by every substantive comparison or definition. The unanimity of Republican opposition says more about Republicans than it does about the plan itself.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #21 of 26
Are you talking about the Chafee bill from 1993?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #22 of 26
You dodge basically every question I ever ask you so you can forget me responding to you anymore. I told you, I'm done with your bullshit.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #23 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

You dodge basically every question I ever ask you so you can forget me responding to you anymore.

Ohhh the irony.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #24 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

You really don't know that the key points you conservatives have railed against in the health bill are the exact points your side wanted fifteen years ago? Not surprising.

From "The New Republic", you know, a publication with a very conservative bias:



http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-cha...alth-care-plan

More choice bits:

Yes...because various politicians supported versions of it in the past, we are the hypocrites. Gotcha.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #25 of 26
There's nothing especially out of order with people blaming Bush. People are still blaming Clinton. People are still blaming Carter, Nixon or Reagan. Blaming previous administrations is all part of the national political "dialog".... the Red team vs Blue Team distraction.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #26 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

You really don't know that the key points you conservatives have railed against in the health bill are the exact points your side wanted fifteen years ago? Not surprising.

From "The New Republic", you know, a publication with a very conservative bias:



http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-cha...alth-care-plan

More choice bits:

Nice spin and over reach there. You'll notice that two key differences are the democrats favor expansion of Medicare (aka dump costs on already bankrupt states) and refuse tort reform. Also the table doesn't mention all the new taxes that ObamaCare creates (in effect now) and repeats the lie that is the budget analysis of ObamaCare. 10 years of taxes for how many years of benefits?

Another thing to note is that ObamaCare did nothing, in fact made worse, the problem of tying people to employers because of health insurance. Republicans want to fix that key problem that many american despise.
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