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Google Android passes Apple's iPhone in total US subscribers - comScore - Page 3

post #81 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

1) When we can actually start to see (audited, segment) profit numbers for Google and the handset makers, this type of news will start to make more contextual sense.

2) If I were Android, I'd be deeply worried about the impending arrival of iPhone on Verizon. Growth could start to decelerate fairly dramatically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bstring View Post

I think you will be surprised at how little the Verizon iphone affects the trend.

Which trend? Zero profits?
post #82 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Since one having slightly more or less OS marketshare isnt an indicator of which one will be a better experience for an end user shouldnt this entire article and discussion be a moot point?

Having slightly more or less market share doesn't matter very much. Having a sufficient market share does. I figure that Apple and Android are likely to have sufficient market share for the foreseeable future, at least enough to attract developers and achieve sufficient economies of scale (at least among the major Android manufacturers).

What I don't quite get is the stridency. Why can't both sides simply accept that competition is driving innovation and lower prices on both platforms. Both platforms seem to be evolving pretty quickly.

As an end user, I don't really care if Apple is making high profits. It's not to my advantage and excessive profits rarely lead to efficient economic outcomes. As an end user I don't care which firms has a marginal advantage in market share.

It's actually a shame because it drives out all rational discussion of the advantages and disadvantages of each platform.
post #83 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

MS still holding onto about 10%. I think WP7 will be more successful than many think. I’d certainly choose it today over Android.

Wow, am surprised there. I wouldn't get WP7 if it was given to me for free. And it's not just fanboism, WP7 has no good apps, a decent browsers and a terrible UI. I would rather keep a feature phone to tell you the truth. If I had to switch from iOS I would say Android or Palm would be my choices, though both OSs offer a worse experience then iOS in my view.
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post #84 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigelian View Post

As an end user, I don't really care if Apple is making high profits. It's not to my advantage and excessive profits rarely lead to efficient economic outcomes. As an end user I don't care which firms has a marginal advantage in market share.

As a consumer, I am most interested in finding a solution which I feel is competitively priced and offers the most value. Each of us needs to work out our own value equation but I never think to myself "this company has a great product at a competitive price but I think they make too much money on it."
post #85 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by ollebolle View Post

an Android platform that is many times more wide spread than the iOS platform. That's why developers would be more likely to pass up on the iOS platform than the Android platform.

..

iOs will never have as many applications, because Apple has a moral responsibility to curate their user's experience. There's plenty of porn on Android, so right there there's lots more Android software. But iOS software is much higher quality and has higher moral standards.

If people want porn, they can buy an Android phone. Theres a porn store for Android. You can download nothing but porn. You can download porn, and your kids can download porn. That's the reality of Android.
post #86 of 164
Wow, it took like, how many handsets/carriers? ...against 2-3 SKUs max on AT&T alone.

In other news, Windows outsells MAC OS X...
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post #87 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by penchanted View Post

As a consumer, I am most interested in finding a solution which I feel is competitively priced and offers the most value. Each of us needs to work out our own value equation but I never think to myself "this company has a great product at a competitive price but I think they make too much money on it."

You basically assume the question away by saying "competitively priced". As a consumer I would prefer that pricing shifts value from the manufacturer to the consumer. Why ? Because I am a consumer. Why would any rational consumer want it otherwise? If I am a shareholder my interests would be different.

I still don't get it. Everyone has slightly different consumer preferences why would anyone expect everyone to align around the same platform? This is not a market that has such massive scale issues that it would lead to a natural monopoly.

What this seemingly has devolved to is something akin to an argument of favorite sports teams, with increasingly dubious arguments being made for and against each. All heat, no light.
post #88 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGoodkat View Post

Who cares about the figures, I have loved each and every one of my iPhones, and have no intention of swapping to another handset. Same reason why we only have Macs in our home, very reliable, they do exactly what you need and very stylish to boot

Well said, my family are the same.

When I have to bring in a Windoze laptop (Dell) home as I am on over night support, both my children identify it immediately, "Dad why are you bring that piece of crap (PC) home".
They should know they have to use them at school, most times they don't work at all, or you have to wait forever while they boot.
How come my 9 year old G4 boots in around 10 secs, my 5 year old MBP, in about 30 - 45 secs, while that pile of dog droppings (Dell laptop) takes 5 mins and 7 secs (yes I timed it on my iPhone).
How come? The silence is deafening from the M$ apologists.
This is just one example out of a hundred why Apple are the best.

As long as Apple continues to innovate (let the copiers copy) and brings out great products, makes lots of money in doing so, so that the cycle perpetuates to infinity, then I will be happy.
post #89 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by m0rdread View Post

This is a direct result of Apple’s love affair with AT&T. I understand AT&T took a risk when no one else did, but by the time the iPhone 3Gs came around, Apple should have offered it to any and all carriers that wanted it.

By that time, the iPhone was an established hit, and I am sure carriers would be willing to work with Apple to get the phone on their networks. Oh and one cannot say the “quality” of AT&T network is what kept them on it. Because around this time there were floods of complaints on the internet about dropped calls, slow data, etc… Steve was even asked about this on occasion.

Apple should have even made a CDMA version. Steve should have come on stage and said, here is the iPhone 3Gs, available on ALL networks! Why limit your customer base to just ONE carrier?

Sure this would not have stopped Android, but it would have slowed it down significantly. Even now, with all the Verizon rumors going around, why are they just limiting themselves to Verizon?!?!? In EVERY other country in the world, the iPhone is available to more than one carrier. So why does Apple continue to have this love affair with AT&T?!?!?!?

They don’t have to license iOS to others. They first have to make sure that everyone that wants an iPhone can get one. I for one flat out refuse to pay AT&T inflated prices. T-Mobile is much more economical for me, and the coverage is just as good at ATT in my area. Some people love Verizon, others Sprint, still others some other carrier, why should they be denied the phone?

Simple really, if you did some research, Apple refused ATT to touch their phone in anyway, that means branding it, bloatware, skins etc. Apple has full control, as they should, this ensure that the UI experience is the ultimate for their customers.
OS updates are not at the mercy of the carriers.
Now androyd phones, well that is another story, which has been discussed a great deal here, so I won't go into it, you can check the archives on AI to educate yourself.
post #90 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by tawilson View Post

Yes and no. Apple is being forced to up their game and are doing a bloody good job, so far.

However on the Android side of things, they aren't looking so great. The platform has got more fragmented. Phones from manufacturers are being locked out of new OS updates 6 months after they are released. More and more app stores are cropping up for the same platform, some with very potentially awful consequences/clauses (for developers - who incidentally help drive the usefulness/desire of a device), such as Amazon's awful "fire sale" policy.

Android is looking more and more shite by the minute. Android 3.0 has thrown UI consistency and clarity out of the window and that's just on Google's apps. It's turning it a shocking mess. And there is still no decent way for developers to monetize their applications, especially globally.

Thats what I tell the androyd fans, but their skulls are impervious to facts or logic.
Just multiple this situation by a magnitude of 10, when all the tables are out there, and even more handsets, especially the el cheapos from China.
My question is this, how will Joe or June Average be able to pick one from the others ?
Choice is good, too much choice is not so good, way, way TOO much choice is a disaster, but standing on the pedestal is the one and true original, the iPad or its soon to be cousin, iPad 2.
Which one would you choose if you were in this situation. Especially if you owned one previously or knew friends who did.
post #91 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigelian View Post

You basically assume the question away by saying "competitively priced". As a consumer I would prefer that pricing shifts value from the manufacturer to the consumer. Why ? Because I am a consumer. Why would any rational consumer want it otherwise? If I am a shareholder my interests would be different.

I agree - as a consumer, I would prefer to shift value from the manufacturer to myself.

I have not assumed away the question because value is also a part of the equation and something that helps to determine if a product is "competitively priced." People make these choices every day: should I buy the store brand, the mainstream national brand or some premium brand without ever considering the companies' profitability. It always comes down to price and perceived value.
post #92 of 164
So Apple is DOOMED?

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post #93 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by m0rdread View Post

This is a direct result of Apples love affair with AT&T. I understand AT&T took a risk when no one else did, but by the time the iPhone 3Gs came around, Apple should have offered it to any and all carriers that wanted it.

It's not love affair. It was apple doing extortion on cell operators on who is going to give them 10% share of every call being made. That being said, it's perfectly legal as long as both parties think they have interest in it and what they did they passed the costs on the consumer, YOU.

If apple as a company makes such huge profits that means that the company charges you much more than it spends on everything else, so you pay quite a high premium. Which is of course also not bad as long as you know what you're getting into and understand that they do it for shareholders and not for you.
post #94 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Google maybe the free OS but the actual money and risk is being put in by the manufacturers who are all going to be cutting each other's throats. Apple meanwhile sale on.

That was the same model that worked successfully with windows platform. You have 5-6 major producers of hw that have significant share and a trillion of minor ones. None of them with some development strategy seems to be in problems after 20 years of pursuing of same platform.
post #95 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post

If apple as a company makes such huge profits that means that the company charges you much more than it spends on everything else, so you pay quite a high premium. Which is of course also not bad as long as you know what you're getting into and understand that they do it for shareholders and not for you.

You do realize that the vast majority of iPhone users have no idea of Apple's profitability.

Oil companies, cable companies and cell carriers, yes; handset makers and CE companies, not so much.
post #96 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

What about when you throw in tablet users (iPad) and other device (iPod Touch) all using iOS, all able to be targeted by the same developers on the iOS platform.

Then there's the fact that America isn't the iPhone's only market, that the majority of iPhones are sold outside the US..

The numbers the fanboys conveniently forget.

Well since the US only takes up 5% of the worlds population you would hope that the majority of the sales are outside the US.
post #97 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Which trend? Zero profits?

Hi. I have an iPhone last gen. Contract up for wife and I. Now, rather than knock, drop, kick et-cetera, the Droids, as I keeps looking at the iPhone 4, let's just say that evryone I know that has one of the newer one, loves it and there are some orrery cool apps out there too to keep you busy for a long time. My favorite is a simple bouceback text you can on and off, so if your really busy and keeps texting you, they get an automated reply saying whatever you want, like thanks for texting me but I am busy at the moment. Then there are a few that have flash as well as allow you to watch netflix for you phone free if you have any netflix agreement.

Some phones also had face time before the iPhone and also world over 3g:4G and while I don't think Apple has anything to worry about, yet, operative word being "yet", Google started as a search engine, now has
this, their OS and who knows what else. Their online mail app gets stinger every day
and fore, while mobile me has some cool stuff, it's buying it on Amazon
for almost half the price, it's having the @mac that keeps me, otherwise I would have dumped it a few years ago. It's late and I got up to go to the bathroom so HAPPY NRW YEAR AND BELATED MERRY CHRISTMAS. MAY YOU ALL HAVE AN AWESOME 2011 WITH MANY DREAMS COMING TRUE!!!

That said Apple needs to get on the ball. They all but dropppef the Pro Creative with updates to slow )Logic, 64 bit FCP) and at the same time release a mid- range tower, add more memory slots for quad which should be in threes asr adding something in the 4th slows it down, so 3, 6, 9. Add newer FireWire,er optical, USB 3. More FireWire for iMacs ( both should be the faster FireWire and USB. And for the phones figure out a netflix and free tv websites without flash or in time they could get into a bind as Googles OS is not out yet they offer almost eveything mme offers free and like I said Droid lover really LOVE their droids and tgis is just not going to go away, Google will get stinger, for example Google TVs that work wirelessly with game consoles, phone, datebook, calander. Like I said, their online email has many plug INS that do some preety powerful things already. Apple simply cannot sit on their laurels. Not this time

tower
post #98 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

My verizon friend just bought a Droid X due to her old phone finally burning out. They practically gave away the DroidX phone. She didn't have to pay anything for it except just an extra $10/mo for the plan. That kind of gives me an idea about what they're doing.

She was actually waiting for an iPhone and knows about the impending arrival. She just could not wait any more. What a pity as the first thing she mentioned about her DroidX is how complicated it is to use. She has an iPod touch and loved its simplicity.

How can one compete when shops are practically giving the phones away?



No offence, but if she can't figure out Android in a few days then she's better off with a Nokia and an ipod click-wheel. It's not rocket science, Apple have just dumbed things down so much that people mistake a lack of choice for simplicity of use. Try getting music on and off without itunes, or getting it to work with bluetooth in your car and see how simple Apple make it.

With regards to the Verizon iPhone, it affects no-one outside of the US, and to be honest it will leave a vacuum at AT&T, one they will have to fill. Guess what platform they will fill it with? You will see a lot of the marketing dollars that AT&T used for the iphone now promoting Android (and other platforms such as webOS, WP7 and Meego when it arrives.) It will make an interesting study.
post #99 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by ollebolle View Post

seriously? now its google + samsung + LG + philips + sony ericsson + every other android device maker vs Apple when it comes to platforms

the levels are not equal

Why not?

The goalposts seem to be moving all the time. First the argument was that all Androids would never outsell the iPhone. Seriously. Go back and read comments on this forum from early 2010. Then when that happened, the argument changed to, "Just wait for the iPhone 4." The iPhone 4 didn't do anything to stop Android's momentum. Then Jobs cleverly changed the debate by make it all about all iOS devices. Now that's the new goalpost?

What's the goalpost going to be once the flood of Android tablets start doing to the iPad what Android did to the iPhone's numbers?

And yes it should be all those OEMs + Google. Because Google is not a hardware company and those OEMs don't make the software. So the comparison makes sense. This is also why this whole Google made $1 billion from mobile and Apple made $30 billion from mobile doesn't make sense either. Google doesn't get hardware profits.

None of this is to detract from Apple's success. They make phenomenal products (some of which I love and use). But the twisted fanboy logic just gets ridiculous sometimes.

I'd suggest that the only comparison that matters for consumers is total ecosystem marketshare. That's what attracts developers. And of course, if you are a shareholder, then profit shares matter. Consumers who extol the virtues of profit share though seem rather moronic too me. Only fanboys take pride in fattening a company's profits.
post #100 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Why not?

The goalposts seem to be moving all the time. First the argument was that all Androids would never outsell the iPhone. Seriously. Go back and read comments on this forum from early 2010. Then when that happened, the argument changed to, "Just wait for the iPhone 4." The iPhone 4 didn't do anything to stop Android's momentum. Then Jobs cleverly changed the debate by make it all about all iOS devices. Now that's the new goalpost?

What's the goalpost going to be once the flood of Android tablets start doing to the iPad what Android did to the iPhone's numbers?

And yes it should be all those OEMs + Google. Because Google is not a hardware company and those OEMs don't make the software. So the comparison makes sense. This is also why this whole Google made $1 billion from mobile and Apple made $30 billion from mobile doesn't make sense either. Google doesn't get hardware profits.

None of this is to detract from Apple's success. They make phenomenal products (some of which I love and use). But the twisted fanboy logic just gets ridiculous sometimes.

I'd suggest that the only comparison that matters for consumers is total ecosystem marketshare. That's what attracts developers. And of course, if you are a shareholder, then profit shares matter. Consumers who extol the virtues of profit share though seem rather moronic too me. Only fanboys take pride in fattening a company's profits.

exactly
post #101 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Why not?

The goalposts seem to be moving all the time. First the argument was that all Androids would never outsell the iPhone. Seriously. Go back and read comments on this forum from early 2010. Then when that happened, the argument changed to, "Just wait for the iPhone 4." The iPhone 4 didn't do anything to stop Android's momentum. Then Jobs cleverly changed the debate by make it all about all iOS devices. Now that's the new goalpost?

The majority of posters here have been stating that Android should best iOS in OS marketshare. Its a free OS that can be used by all and iOS is only used on Apples products. That alone should tell you that Android The fact that it took Android long to creep ahead of a iOS is the real story here.
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post #102 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by tawilson View Post

Maybe the levels aren't equal. But Apple has a disproportionate share of the profits in the feature smartphone market. As long as that remains the case...Apple are on to a winner.

Android is fast becoming a race to the bottom on price, just as with the Windows-based PC market. Hardly any profit to be had in PCs, and Apple has the vast majority of that too.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Imagine where computing would be today if the Apple model of exclusively selling hardware and software bundled together had won out.

Say what you will, but you can thank Wintel for making commodotizing computers and putting them within reach of virtually anybody. With any luck, Android might be able to do the same for smartphones.
post #103 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgavula View Post

I disagree. You need to care about profitability. Without it manufacturers and developers won't grow and progress devices and platforms. If Apple is highly profitable they will keep putting money into their products. So you SHOULD care about profitability.

PC profits are razor thin. Hasn't stopped innovation and new form factors (netbooks) from coming out.

By your rationale, Microsoft should have kept on steamrolling everybody else since they've been banking billions for years.

I'd like to see some more conclusive proof that profitability = innovation.
post #104 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigelian View Post

As far as I'm concerned, the competition between Android and Apple is already providing benefits to end users. I hope that it only gets more intense.

+1

I figure that Android has probably forced Apple to up its hardware development cycle by at least a year. And can you imagine what the iPhone 5 and iPad 2 are going to look like given the competition that's coming from the Android world.
post #105 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

+1

I figure that Android has probably forced Apple to up its hardware development cycle by at least a year. And can you imagine what the iPhone 5 and iPad 2 are going to look like given the competition that's coming from the Android world.

By a year? In what way?

Note that CES had plenty of smartphones and tablets with dual-core Cortex-A9 processors, which is something Apple isnt current using and certainly was using last year.

I see modern smartphone OSes, not just Android, pushing development a little faster on the iPhone but so much with HW as with SW. HW designs take a while to work out and arent going to be altered at the last minute simply because a new Android-based phone has included something.

Plus, HW is an area where Apple ahead without having to be ahead. Meaning Apple can use a ≈800MHz Cortex-A8 and have a device that feels faster than an Android-based device performing a similar task while running 25% faster. If you have more efficient code you dont have to force it to use the fastest HW just to make a usable device. Android is coming along nicely, but it still trails Apple in this regard.
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post #106 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The majority of posters here have been stating that Android should best iOS in OS marketshare. Its a free OS that can be used by all and iOS is only used on Apples products. That alone should tell you that Android The fact that it took Android long to creep ahead of a iOS is the real story here.

Android's been around for just over two years and only really got going just over a year ago (with the Droid). How long has iOS been around? I'd say catching up to iPhone market share in a year is a decent accomplishment. Are your blinders that strong that you don't consider the accomplishments of Android worthwhile at all?

Just because it's a free OS doesn't mean that it's going to best Apple overnight. Somebody's still gotta build hardware for that piece of software.
post #107 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

By a year? In what way?

Note that CES had plenty of smartphones and tablets with dual-core Cortex-A9 processors, which is something Apple isnt current using and certainly was using last year.

They weren't using a touch optimized OS. They were all running Windows. We're only really seeing true competition to the iPad now....and by now I mean in 4-6 months when Android 3.0, WebOS and some tablet version of WinPho 7 hit the market. Even the Galaxy Tab as well as it sold, I wouldn't really count as a real iPad competitor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I see modern smartphone OSes, not just Android, pushing development a little faster on the iPhone but so much with HW as with SW. HW designs take a while to work out and arent going to be altered at the last minute simply because a new Android-based phone has included something.

I see your point. However, I really don't think that the iPhone 4 would have been as strong as it was if the Droid line hadn't launched. Sure HW takes a year to plan out. But it's not like Apple didn't know the specs of the Droid before Motorola launched it. I doubt they'd have really gone after expensive components like the Retina display or the 3 axis gyroscope without Android breathing down their necks and knowing what lay ahead in the next year. That's the real challenge for Apple. They have to have a product that's relevant for a whole year. And while most Android OEMs pretty much refresh their major platforms once a year (ie Galaxy S or Xperia for example) - while launching different form factors of the same platform - the fact that there are several OEMs means that the HW is being pushed forward every month. That's real competition for Apple.

Just look at stuff like NFC. How long would we have waited for that if Apple and Google weren't competing to rush that technology to the market? Competition is good. And it's not just limited to software.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Plus, HW is an area where Apple ahead without having to be ahead. Meaning Apple can use a ≈800MHz Cortex-A8 and have a device that feels faster than an Android-based device performing a similar task while running 25% faster. If you have more efficient code you dont have to force it to use the fastest HW just to make a usable device. Android is coming along nicely, but it still trails Apple in this regard.

Meh. Play with a Galaxy S phone running 2.2 and then come and tell me that an iPhone 4 feels 25% faster. I have no doubt that iOS is a better polished and more efficient OS. But I don't think the difference is the gulf people on here make it out to be.

The challenge for Android is the cheap Androids. It's the Huawei Android devices for example that leave a bad impression. If Android was restricted to high end devices only, the impression and user experience of the platform would be quite different.

In any event, I'd say the biggest benefit to come from this contest will be price. Remember what the iPhone sold for when it launched? Today you can get an iPhone 4 for free on contract in a lot of places outside the US (that's why all these cries against Android BOGOs in the US is just ridiculous whining) and you can get a iPhone 3GS for $50 in the USA. If there weren't Android BOGO offers in the US, that wouldn't have happened. I look forward to the day when virtually every high end smartphone (including the iPhone) can be bought for less than $500 off-contract and will be available for free on contract.
post #108 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

+1

I figure that Android has probably forced Apple to up its hardware development cycle by at least a year. And can you imagine what the iPhone 5 and iPad 2 are going to look like given the competition that's coming from the Android world.

Which Android release and/or which Android Phones "forced Apple to up its hardware development cycle" and create the iPad -- an all new category, that single-handedly outsold many Android phones (mentioned because there was no tablet competition) in the 9 months of its availability?
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post #109 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Somebody's still gotta build hardware for that piece of software.

"piece of software"... an interesting turn of phrasing
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post #110 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Meh. Play with a Galaxy S phone running 2.2 and then come and tell me that an iPhone 4 feels 25% faster. I have no doubt that iOS is a better polished and more efficient OS. But I don't think the difference is the gulf people on here make it out to be.

I’m glad you brought up the Samsung Galaxy S as it illustrates my point. Since you seem to think that raw specs are more important than optimized HW and SW I’ll use the Galaxy S to illustrate why that is illogical when using disparate OSes.

Exhibit A: They both have 802.11n so they should be equally as fast because the 802.11n spec is the same regardless. But that isn’t the case. In fact, 802.11g on the iPhone is faster than 802.11n on Android phones.

Exhibit B: It’s 25% faster yet with page loadings it doesn’t look to be 25% faster. This is something the user can feel. This is where you’d agrue that you mentioned Android 2.2 which does have an even better JS engine and page loading, but that’s optimized code, the point I’m making here.


Exhibit C: Resulting battery life. This is where power management comes into play. This is important to users even though most don’t even realize it. It’s one of those odd features that most don’t think about until their device is without power. Having faster HW just to keep up with slower HW and optimized code is not good for power efficiency. Think of it this way, you can put a 1000HP engine into a car, but it’ll still get beaten by a Vespa if you make the car out of bricks, the wheels from wood, and transmission out of straw. It’s the whole package that makes it work, not just a single aspect.


You might notice that there are phones that exceed that iPhone on ‘3G’ talk while they are well under on the other battery stats. This has to do with CDMA/EV-DO v. GSM/UMTS. You’ll notice CDMA-based ‘2G’ and ‘3G’ talk time are equivalent, but not so with GSM-based ‘2G’ and ‘3G’ talk time. ven when ‘3G’ is activated on a CDMA-based device it still uses ‘2G’ for the call. CDMA has a pretty good voice algorithm, and much better than GSM, so this is a benefit for it. The downside being that you can’t currently get simultaneous voice and data.

PS: Also note that Galaxy S only has to push 384,000 pixels while the iPhone 4 has to push 614,400 despite the weaker hardware, yet it doesn’t seem to do poorly with rendering graphics.
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post #111 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The majority of posters here have been stating that Android should best iOS in OS marketshare. Its a free OS that can be used by all and iOS is only used on Apples products. That alone should tell you that Android The fact that it took Android long to creep ahead of a iOS is the real story here.

You are a very reasonable guy on this forum and you know that Android has been bashed since the beginning and that here has been said that it won't overnumber iOS.

By the way, if Android/iOS is the number one doesn't mean nothing
post #112 of 164
Others have mentioned that Android has an advantage because:

-- while most Android OEMs release 1 major smartphone per year (including several carrier variants)
-- that, because there are so many Android OEMs, there is a new, better Android model every few months

Thus, the consumer always has a choice of the latest/newest Android phone vs an iPhone that is, on average, 6 months old.

What bothers me is that the normal consumer's buy/refresh cycle is not every 3 months, 6 months or even a year -- more like 2 years -- to get the maximum subsidy and avoid ETFs.

There are a few buyers, like DaHarder, who can afford multiple, concurrent, carrier subscriptions to multiple iPhones, Android Phones, etc.

Is this realistic?

Over decades, the major automobile refresh cycle evolved to a new car every 2-3 years. Hence the financing plans and more-or-less October release window for most new models -- to match the buying patterns of consumers.

Assuming the DaHarders are an exception (God willing) -- do you think the smart phone industry will evolve to a "one major model per year" and a reduced "new model introduction" window once per year.

I realize there will be exceptions -- I am talking the majority here.


That said, the release of the iPad 3G without a carrier subsidy/contract is a monumental occurrence, IMO.

The OEM (Apple) is totally in charge of the device: price; features; upgrades; ecosystem; release schedule.

The carriers devolve to what they should be "carriers" -- not subsidizers, contractors; enforcers.


Unfortunately, the vast majority of Tablet OEMs seem to be "hiding behind the subsidy skirts" of the carriers.


I hope Apple continues offering the iPad as it currently does -- taking advantage of its new-found freedom.

I think it can do this as follows:

1) offer a carrier-agnostic iPad at a MSRP through its Apple Stores and other resellers

2) insist that approved carriers offer this same model at comparable MSRP

3) allow carriers to bundle the iPad with carrier plans at whatever discount they can afford (while paying Apple full wholesale)


Once this takes hold, it is a much smaller step, than today, to take the same approach with cell phones.


This has to happen -- the sooner the quicker!

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post #113 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

You are a very reasonable guy on this forum and you know that Android has been bashed since the beginning and that here has been said that it won't overnumber iOS.

By the way, if Android/iOS is the number one doesn't mean nothing

Sure, Im sure nearly every posters has said a negative thing about Android, but I think that most still felt that it would reign. Its a modern mobile OS designed for modern touch-based devices that is free and backed by dozens of HW companies. I dont see how they cant be the most common smartphone OS.


Prediction: The Verizon iPhone will slow down Android-based devices a little, but they will continue to grow faster than Apples iOS platform in OS unit numbers.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #114 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

What bothers me is that the normal consumer's buy/refresh cycle is not every 3 months, 6 months or even a year -- more like 2 years -- to get the maximum subsidy and avoid ETFs.
.

I think that you're thinking on USA market, don't you?
post #115 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Im glad you brought up the Samsung Galaxy S as it illustrates my point. Since you seem to think that raw specs are more important than optimized HW and SW Ill use the Galaxy S to illustrate why that is illogical when using disparate OSes.

...

You might notice that there are phones that exceed that iPhone on 3G talk while they are well under on the other battery stats. This has to do with CDMA/EV-DO v. GSM/UMTS. Youll notice CDMA-based 2G and 3G talk time are equivalent, but not so with GSM-based 2G and 3G talk time. ven when 3G is activated on a CDMA-based device it still uses 2G for the call. CDMA has a pretty good voice algorithm, and much better than GSM, so this is a benefit for it. The downside being that you cant currently get simultaneous voice and data.

Great charts and commentary!

Also, I remember reading somewhere, that OS garbage collection on Android phones caused a noticeable delay in UI responsiveness. I suspect that the easiest way to compensate is to throw more hardware at the problem (reducing battery) -- called the "Detroit Solution" -- "there is no substitute for cubic inches"... except for mobile, that is!

Conversly, iOS does not provide garbage collection and requires the developer to manage the critical RAM resource -- not difficult for a qualified developer.

The result of the Apple iOS approach is that when you add more powerful hardware you get better results (performance, battery) -- rather than "it now performs adequately".

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post #116 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

I think that you're thinking on USA market, don't you?

Yeah -- that's the only market I know.

But, even (maybe more so) with unsubsidized phones, how often does the average consumer replace his phone?
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post #117 of 164
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Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Yeah -- that's the only market I know.

But, even (maybe more so) with unsubsidized phones, how often does the average consumer replace his phone?

Here in Spain, the people I know replace their phone every 6 months more less, they buy and sell it.

My actual phone, yes, an Android Galaxy S was bougth through eBay for $200 unlock from a person which uses his reward points.

By they way, I bought my iPhone 3G for 200€ (subsudizedI) and I sold it for 250€ a year later and I bought the Nexus One for 400€ unsubsudized and I sold it for 500€ 9 months later
post #118 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

Here in Spain, the people I know replace their phone every 6 months more less, they buy and sell it.

My actual phone, yes, an Android Galaxy S was bougth through eBay for $200 unlock from a person which uses his reward points.

By they way, I bought my iPhone 3G for 200€ (subsudizedI) and I sold it for 250€ a year later and I bought the Nexus One for 400€ unsubsudized and I sold it for 500€ 9 months later

Wow! That's very interesting!

You seem to be making money!

Why do smart phones appreciate in price?

Are there artificial shortages or import restrictions?

Doesn't a legacy of app purchases tend to tie the consumer to a specific brand of phone?


One of the 1st gen 1 iPhone apps I bought was Sketches. It was written by two Spaniards in Madrid. At the time iPhones were unavailable there and were purchased on trips to the US. I suspect that is no longer necessary.

P.S. I've never been to Barcelona -- but it was the highlight of my daughter's High school trip to Europe... Our family spent time in Madrid and Costa del Sol on another trip. Loved it -- Especially a trip To Ronda.

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post #119 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Yeah -- that's the only market I know.

But, even (maybe more so) with unsubsidized phones, how often does the average consumer replace his phone?

Had my phone for five going on six years. LG VX5300. Best phone ever. I ignore texting and all the fake features in the terrible OS and just have it for if people call me. If I can get a CDMA iPhone without a data plan, I'll get a new iPhone. If not, I'll have Verizon activate my iPhone 2G using an LTE modem SIM. Should be interesting.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #120 of 164
I've read this site daily for years, and finally I had to register to respond to this thread. My family has owned at least one of every Apple product made in the last decade except for the iPhone (we refuse to use AT&T) and the iPad, and as an Apple enthusiast and stockholder, I hope that the iPhone product line is immensely successful for a long time.

That said, most users of this website have an incredibly skewed view of Android. You all make remarks about the terrible hardware and software of Android phones, and I have to wonder if any of you have ever actually picked one up and used it. The high end Android phones (the ones truly competing with the iPhone) lack nothing with regards to hardware and software quality. My phone, the Droid X, is a truly fantastic piece of technology that deserves nothing but praise from gadget lovers (I have to assume anyone who reads this site falls into that category). The same goes for for the Droid, the Droid 2, the Droid Incredible, the Galaxy S, the Nexus One, the Nexus S, etc. Those devices are wonderful phones that bring a very satisfying user experience across the board. I won't speak for Android devices that are dissimilar from those I just listed since I have never used any.

Now back to some points more relevant to this thread. I'm tired of hearing the argument about the number of Android devices vs. the number of iOS devices. First off, it doesn't matter as long as both operating systems are selling above some critical level. But if to you it does matter, then realize that Android sales are comparable to iPhone sales because they represent all phones running the Android operating system, just as iPhone sales represent all phones running iOS. To say that Android sales numbers are only relevant phone by phone is silly and displays poor logic. Nobody can know that Android wouldn't sell in equal numbers if it were only released on one phone (or iterations thereof), so drop the argument. There's no sound point you can make in contradiction. As far as BOGOs enhancing sales, go to Verizon's website right now, and count the number of Android devices on BOGO; there are two (probably slow sellers at this point). Sales like that are generally used to reduce inventories of older products, so it's unlikely that the phenomenal sales rates of Android devices is due in large part to them.

Finally, solipsism, your graphs are outdated, although they are very nice. Most of the Android devices on them still showed 2.1 as their operating system rather than 2.2, which all of them currently run.
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