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Strictly China. (and India)

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
I'm curious about China and am hoping some of the experts here can provide links and knowledge about the place. The titles a bit of a lie (updated to include India) because India is also heading towards superpower status and I'd like to include them too.
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post #2 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I'm curious about China and am hoping some of the experts here can provide links and knowledge about the place. The titles a bit of a lie (updated to include India) because India is also heading towards superpower status and I'd like to include them too.

I see they have stealth! Can you elaborate the question a bit, not sure what you're asking
post #3 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcUK™ View Post

I see they have stealth! Can you elaborate the question a bit, not sure what you're asking

There isn't a question. I'd just like a thread where I can find out interesting things about I&C that I wouldn't necessarily have got to know otherwise. Hopefully everyone will find it interesting and I'll post things as I come across them too.
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post #4 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

There isn't a question. I'd just like a thread where I can find out interesting things about I&C that I wouldn't necessarily have got to know otherwise. Hopefully everyone will find it interesting and I'll post things as I come across them too.

The main industries in Southern China are trade, manufacturing, prostitution and institutional corruption.

Prostitution is far more rampant than any of you are most likely aware, and it takes several forms.
post #5 of 26
Thread Starter 
A fantastic headline in the Guardian, lol.

"--Good for the Goose, good for propaganda: China steals Top Gun clip--

China Central Television News last week broadcast a training exercise by the People's Liberation Army Air Force with one plane firing a missile at another. But an observant viewer spotted that the resulting explosion matches a blast from the final fight scene in the Tom Cruise movie.

While the clip is no doubt the work of a maverick employee, many internet users have enjoyed the broadcaster's embarrassment. The authorities censor television more strictly than publications and CCTV's news bulletins, in particular, are notorious for their unflinching dullness."
~ http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...v-news-top-gun


Snatched in plane sight, stealth (my feable attempt at a cute headline -

"Chinese officials recently unveiled a new, high-tech prototype stealth attack plane that could pose a significant threat to American air superiority - and some of its technology, it turns out, may well have come from the US itself.
Balkan military officials have said that, in all probability, the Chinese gleaned some of their technological know-how from an American F-117 Nighthawk that was shot down over Serbia in 1999."
~ http://news.scotsman.com/news/China-...ogy.6699907.jp
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post #6 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

While the clip is no doubt the work of a maverick employee...

LOL
post #7 of 26
Gung Hay Fat Choy
Quote:
Gung Hay Fat Choy means "Best wishes and Congratulations. Have a prosperous and good year."
Chinese New Year marks the end of winter and the beginning of spring. It is a time for family reunions, for honoring ancestors and for thanking the gods for their blessings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_New_Year

http://www.chinesezodiac.com/signs.php

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pict...he-Rabbit.html
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post #8 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Gung Hay Fat Choy means "Best wishes and Congratulations. Have a prosperous and good year."

Not in the slightest. It's neither an accurate literal translation nor is it an accurate reflection of the meaning.

Literally, "gung hay fat choy" is simply "Congratulations, prosperous!"

A loose translation might be "Congratulations, you're going to be prosperous!"

And a good translation balancing intent and linguistic flow would be "Bless you with prosperity!"

There's nothing in there AT ALL about "best wishes" or the blessing only being for the year.
post #9 of 26
Hands - read this blog, and his book. It is a lot more in-depth about China's inner workings than anything you will find in the regular media.

http://chinesepolitics.blogspot.com/
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post #10 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Hands - read this blog, and his book. It is a lot more in-depth about China's inner workings than anything you will find in the regular media.

http://chinesepolitics.blogspot.com/

Forgot to say thanks for this earlier. Very interesting.
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post #11 of 26
Thread Starter 
'IDC reports that China has surpassed the US in demand for PCs, with the country consuming 18.5 million shipments worth $11.9 billion, compared to domestic shipments of 17.7 million units worth $11.7 billion.

The firm's Worldwide Quarterly PC Tracker report states China now accounts for a 22% share of the global PC market, compared to 21 percent for the US.'
~ http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...pc_market.html
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post #12 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Not in the slightest. It's neither an accurate literal translation nor is it an accurate reflection of the meaning.

Literally, "gung hay fat choy" is simply "Congratulations, prosperous!"

A loose translation might be "Congratulations, you're going to be prosperous!"

And a good translation balancing intent and linguistic flow would be "Bless you with prosperity!"

There's nothing in there AT ALL about "best wishes" or the blessing only being for the year.

For ethnic Chinese in South East Asia, "Gung Hay Fat Choy" or "Gong Xi Fa Cai" is generally only used during Chinese New Year and not other times. More formally, during Chinese New Year one might say "Gong Xi Fa Cai, Xing Nian Kuai Le"... The second phrase specifically referring to a "New Year" (Xing Nian).

In Hong Kong is "Gung Hay Fat Choy" used throughout the year? Curious.
post #13 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

...Prostitution is far more rampant than any of you are most likely aware, and it takes several forms.

After years in Asia I'm still perplexed as to the strange line local men draw between hand jobs and full on sex. They seem to like their "erotic massage" in Asia. I think it has to do with local men thinking it's "not really cheating, sex or prostitution" if it's just a hand job.
post #14 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

After years in Asia I'm still perplexed as to the strange line local men draw between hand jobs and full on sex. They seem to like their "erotic massage" in Asia. I think it has to do with local men thinking it's "not really cheating, sex or prostitution" if it's just a hand job.

Trust me, it's full-on sex for many Hong Kong Chinese men. They tell their wives and perhaps their less intimate male friends it's "only a hand job".
post #15 of 26
The initiator of economic reforms Deng Xiao Ping supposedly said (I didnt find the exact source) to get rich is glorious, and many in China have espoused this phrase. The skyrocketing development of China in recent decades made many Chinese rich and many foreign rich got involved and richer.
And today I found this piece:
MSNBC*|*Top of Chinese wealthys wish list? To leave China
Chinas wealthiest are investing more abroad, as a way to get away

Excerpt:
Quote:
China's richest are increasingly investing abroad to get a foreign passport, to make international business and travel easier but also to give them a way out of China.

The United States is the most popular destination for Chinese emigrants, with rich Chinese praising its education and healthcare systems. Last year, nearly 68,000 Chinese-born people became legal permanent residents of the U.S., seven percent of the total and second only to those born in Mexico. Canada and Australia are also popular.

It is a bothersome trend for Chinas communist leaders who've pinned the legitimacy of one-party rule on delivering rapid economic growth and a rising standard of living. They've succeeded in lifting tens of millions of ordinary Chinese out of poverty while also creating a new class of super rich. Yet affluence alone seems a poor bargain to those with the means to live elsewhere.

Many reasons are given:
Quote:
In China, nothing belongs to you. Like buying a house. You buy it but it will belong to the country 70 years later, said [Peking construction billionaire] Su, lamenting the governments land leasing system.

But abroad, if you buy a house, it belongs to you forever, he said. Both businessmen and government officials are like this. They worry about the security of their assets.

Leo Liu, marketing manager at Beijing emigration consultants Goldlink, said the company has noticed an increasing trend of rich Chinese wanting to emigrate, particularly to Canada, in the 15 years since it was founded.

[]

The main reasons people want to move abroad, he said, are their childrens education and for better healthcare. Some want to leave because they got their money illegally, such as corrupt government officials and businesspeople, while others are inspired by friends who have already emigrated to the U.S.

[]

A millionaire who works in the coal industry, who also spoke on condition of anonymity, said the main push behind his plans to emigrate is Chinas test-centric school system, often criticized for producing students who can pass exams but who lack skills for the world of work.

He will take his 7-year-old to the U.S. as soon as the child graduates from junior high at an international school in Beijing where pupils are instructed in English.

Not necessarily taking MSNBCs word for it, Ill watch that space.

Yet, if this article is even partly accurate, many among those who profit the most from the so-called Chinese miracle, voting with their feet, envisage a better future elsewhere, particularly in decadent, declining Western countries.

We are all familiar with the reality of poor people leaving failed countries with little opportunity.
Here we have an example of wealthy people leaving a rising country said to offer great get-rich opportunity (as many Western individuals and companies flock there with that endeavour).

The Chinese Communist party may believe it avoided losing power (as happened in Russia) by introducing market-oriented reforms while keeping complete authoritarian political control, I think it only delayed it some.
Well see how that goes.
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post #16 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Immanuel Goldstein View Post

The initiator of economic reforms Deng Xiao Ping supposedly said (I didn’t find the exact source) “to get rich is glorious”, and many in China have espoused this phrase.

The skyrocketing development of China in recent decades made many Chinese rich and many foreign rich got involved and richer.

And today I found this piece:
MSNBC*|*Top of Chinese wealthy’s wish list? To leave China

China’s wealthiest are investing more abroad, as a way to get away...

You see, what's happening in Asia, and the reason why I left Malaysia is that there are huge amounts of money being pumped into Asia. But it's still a mess of corruption, idiosyncrasies, and lack of lifestyle benefits that the US, Europe and other OECD countries offer. If you're rich or super-rich, yeah, you can keep on snowballing that money. But at what cost? Will your kids be safe playing in the park? Are there parks to play in? What environment are you living in? What air do you breathe? What water do you drink and what food do you eat? You may have a driver and a BMW 6-series Coupe, but you're still stuck in horrible traffic. Public transport for anyone at "Vice President" level or above is not even an option in many Asian cities. Even with your house fenced up and stuffed with CCTVs and driving expensive cars with black-tinted windows you're still at risk of robberies, carjacking and kidnapping. Your family becomes an even bigger target. Who takes care of your spouse and children? What hours do you work? How many government and city officials do you need to constantly bribe? In Malaysia, if you're non-Muslim, you could be rich or super-rich but you're still subject to being in an essentially Muslim state. You will likely NEVER be rich enough to reform the government in almost any Asian country, as things currently stand.
post #17 of 26
True. Singapore and Hong Kong are pretty much the only places to live safely and freely in all of Asia. Well, maybe Japan or South Korea, but in those places the locals often look down on foreigners quite a lot.
post #18 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008
You may have a driver and a BMW 6-series Coupe, but you're still stuck in horrible traffic. Public transport for anyone at "Vice President" level or above is not even an option in many Asian cities. Even with your house fenced up and stuffed with CCTVs and driving expensive cars with black-tinted windows you're still at risk of robberies, carjacking and kidnapping. Your family becomes an even bigger target. Who takes care of your spouse and children? What hours do you work? How many government and city officials do you need to constantly bribe?

Thank you for your reply.
Indeed, that is one of the main problem of developing countries, even emerging ones. While individually one may attain wealth and high standards of living, the public space itself is plagued by high inequalities, crime, poverty, corruption, and lack of civil rights.
No material wealth or economic opportunity are enough to fill that void, that requires political change.

Quote:
In Malaysia, if you're non-Muslim, you could be rich or super-rich but you're still subject to being in an essentially Muslim state. You will likely NEVER be rich enough to reform the government in almost any Asian country, as things currently stand.

Some of my relatives in Singapore used to live in Malaysia, they left after the 1969 riots (without having suffered the effects, but they saw the direction the country was taking), still had business interests there until a few years ago. They arent optimistic about the place to say the least.

While the repressive PRC has many Western admirers (like this one), the many cases of popular unrest along with this migration of the rich indicate its far from the miracle its purported to be.
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post #19 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Immanuel Goldstein View Post

Thank you for your reply.
Indeed, that is one of the main problem of developing countries, even emerging ones. While individually one may attain wealth and high standards of living, the public space itself is plagued by high inequalities, crime, poverty, corruption, and lack of civil rights.
No material wealth or economic opportunity are enough to fill that void, that requires political change.

Some of my relatives in Singapore used to live in Malaysia, they left after the 1969 riots (without having suffered the effects, but they saw the direction the country was taking), still had business interests there until a few years ago. They aren’t optimistic about the place to say the least.

While the repressive PRC has many Western admirers (like this one), the many cases of popular unrest along with this migration of the rich indicate it’s far from the miracle it’s purported to be.

1969 in Malaysia woke up a lot of people. It was rough for a few years and my parents even recall "ground zero" of the riots every time we drive by what is now an up-and-coming suburb with apartments, office buildings and so on.

By the time I was born in the late 70s and going into the 90s a lot of things were managed better and Malaysia-Singapore ties were much improved. Sure, they'd be squabbles and jokes but it wasn't too serious. Towards the late 90s things in Malaysia started deteriorating. Cronyism, corruption, lack of transparency and political tomfoolery set Malaysia on a path of returning to favouring the Malay-Muslim majority; to both secure votes and secure an identity post-9/11, when Malaysia found itself on the axis-of-not-so-evil-but-we've-got-our-eye-on-you. Singapore, which has always been Chinese Buddhist/Christian dominated, but with no institutionalised racism, fell on the side of their long-term ally, the USA.

On top of this Singapore, which technically is a one-political-party country, built on their previous decades of better respect for law, order and organised progress and hence today is a leap ahead of Malaysia.

The only downside that still sees Singaporeans leaving for other countries is that it is a small island and hence lifestyle wise your choices are limited. There has been repression of political dissent and LGBT lifestyles though that is slowly changing. For the Straits Settlements British rule brought a lot of organisation to the country but post-colonialism Malaysia and Singapore went their own ways, not least because of difference in the ethnic majority.

But yeah, at the end of the day those who moved to Singapore and Singaporeans tend to thank their lucky stars they seceded from Malaysia decades ago. Ironically, recent figures put Singapore as accounting for 50% of the Malaysian diaspora.
post #20 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008
Towards the late 90s things in Malaysia started deteriorating.

I remember that, particularly the arrest and trial for corruption and sodomy of UMNO former heir-apparent Anwar Ibrahim (I was, in a very small measure, involved in the international campaign for the release of his Pakistani speechwriter Dr Munawar A Anees).
Then Malaysia reportedly recovered relatively (to some other countries) well from the Asian crisis, the government claiming it was due to its dirigiste policies (pegging the ringgits exchange rate to the US dollar, fiscal stimulus package, capital controls, etc.) while some observers claim it was due to international trade favouring Malaysian exports, I lack enough info on the matter to form an opinion.

Quote:
On top of this Singapore, which technically is a one-political-party country,

My relatives tell me that, as they vote for the neutered opposition Workers Party.

Quote:
built on their previous decades of better respect for law, order and organised progress and hence today is a leap ahead of Malaysia.
[]
There has been repression of political dissent and LGBT lifestyles though that is slowly changing.

Singapore has enough of a rule of law enabling its evolution toward more individual and public freedom, the kind that Malaysia and China, along with many other Asian countries, currently lack.

But eventually, change is possible in my view, through popular pressure demanding more freedom, but moreso as some among the power elite realising, for pragmatic reasons, that representative democracy and civil rights actually strengthen the country and make society more stable than authoritarian policies for the sake of so-called harmonious society and other pretexts.
Or so I hope.
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post #21 of 26
China is the Worlds quasi-exclusive exporter of rare earths. But the Chinese government intends to favour domestic rather than global demand, as reported by the PRC governments mouthpiece:
Xinhua | China not intent to maintain role of major rare earth supplier: top producer

Excerpt:
Quote:
The country will gradually shift to a domestic demand-oriented path from the external demand-oriented path, said Li Zhong, vice president of Inner Mongolia Baotou Steel Rare-Earth Hi-Tech Holding Co

That means less rare earths available to various industrial countries, with the obvious resulting high prices.

Rare earth prices to stay high as China extends crackdown | Reuters
Quote:
China produces about 95 percent of total global rare earths, giving it a chokehold over the supply of 17 elements used to manufacture catalytic converters, permanent magnets and battery cells for products including wind turbines, cell phones and hybrid cars.

Foreign governments have cried foul after Beijing imposed tougher export restrictions on domestic producers, cutting off supplies and driving up global prices.

Theres research for alternatives going on for some time:
Bloomberg Businessweek | High Rare-Earth Prices Force Hitachi, Toyota to Find Alternative
Quote:
Toyota is developing an alternative motor for future models and electric cars that doesnt need rare earths. Toyota engineers are working on a so-called induction motor thats lighter and more efficient than the magnet-type motor now used in its Prius, company spokesman John Hanson said in January.

I hope this research succeeds.
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post #22 of 26
Thread Starter 
More than 3 times more American's as a percentage of the population struggling to eat than the Chinese-

"Millions of Americans are currently weathering the effects of a slow economic recovery. Many Chinese, meanwhile, find themselves struggling less to keep their families fed, according to a recent Gallup report.

Nearly 20 percent of Americans say they've had trouble putting food on the table in the past 12 months, up from nine percent in 2008, the Gallup report found. Thats compared to six percent of Chinese respondents, down from 16 percent in 2008.

Though the U.S. economy is technically in a recovery, Americans' incomes have declined more since the recession's end than they did during the downturn. Nine in 10 Americans say they don't expect to get a raise that will be enough to compensate for the rising cost of food and fuel, according to an American Pulse survey.

At the same time, the Chinese middle class has been on the rise since the late 1990s. The middle-class explosion has been most prominent in the country's largest cities and government policies have helped to aid it along. Businesses are responding too: U.S. hotel companies are launching modestly-priced hotel chains in the country in hopes of attracting some of the scores of new middle class travelers, according to The Wall Street Journal.

And while the Chinese middle class is growing, the ranks of the U.S. poor are swelling. The nation's poverty rate jumped to 15.1 percent in 2010, the Cenus Bureau announced last month, as the total number of Americans in poverty grew to 46.2 million."
~ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...n_1007845.html
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #23 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

You may have a driver and a BMW 6-series Coupe

off topic: why would you choose that car if you have a driver? Seems like an odd choice of car - get an Audi A8L or something.
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post #24 of 26
I cannot vouch for the accuracy of this report, could that be another real-estate bubble bursting?
Chanos: Chinas hard-landing has already begun - Marketwatch
Chinas bust will be a thousand times worse than Dubai (Oct 17 2011)

(I admit suspicion of such predictions)

Extract:
Quote:
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) China is heading into an economic storm, and the much-feared hard-landing of the worlds second-largest economy has already started, warned celebrated hedge-fund manager and China-bear Jim Chanos of Kynikos Associates on Monday.

The numbers are falling faster than we thought, said Chanos during an exclusive interview with MarketWatch on the sidelines of the 7th Annual New York Value Investing Congress.

Real estate sales in September and October, which are peak months, fell 40%-60% on-year, he said.

Chanos also pointed out that Chinese financial and real-estate stocks are down 30% from their peak, while cement and steel prices are declining.

People are buying into the idea of perpetual growth, Chanos said. But they have to ask, Are you really growing?

Then theres the well known part about the CCPs influence:
Quote:
In his earlier presentation at Mondays conference, he cautioned Western investors to remember that politics are a big part of business in China, and that in effect, banks are instruments of state policy.

I lack sufficient information to have an opinion on the matter, has the Chinese government some advantage it could leverage to weather such outcome?

Then theres the matter of those brand new ghost cities
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post #25 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Immanuel Goldstein View Post

I cannot vouch for the accuracy of this report, could that be another real-estate bubble bursting?[/IMG]

There is a bubble for sure in the large cities in China, don't know about the rural areas.

http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/20...bauman-on.html
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post #26 of 26
Thank you for that link e1618978.
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