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Briefly: Apple shareholder proposal, VLC app removed, Intel tablets - Page 2

post #41 of 121
I'm not an Apple shareholder... but if I was the idea of Jobs stepping down would make my heart skip a couple of beats.

I wonder if the plan set out by the board of directors in the event of something happening to Jobs is just to go all Weekend at Bernie's on his ass...?

It would probably have less of an effect on the share price than admitting there was a problem!
post #42 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiA View Post

http://www.domzilla.net/en/iphone-apps/movieplayer/
http://cinexplayer.com/

Whilst these aren't free like vlc they won't break the bank either.



True and I don't need his pity nor vlc on an iDevice. It's always been a buggy piece of software on the Mac; current version crashes half the time I quit the app.
On reflection it's the only app on my Snow Leopard Mac that crashes every day of use, not even Flash does that!

You must have something wrong with your Mac because I've been using VLC since back in the day and I use it heavily watching 720p blu-ray movies on my slow 2007 Macbook. And everyone I know who has a Mac and TB HDs of blu-ray movies in mkv format uses it as well without a single crash.
post #43 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

I didn't say I think they would, I said they need to if they don't want to cut themselves off from GPL software. I'm sure they don't want to cut themselves off from GPL software, ... but I hope they manage to open a dialogue with GNU and figure out how they can make it work. ...

The problem here is not Apple, The problem is the GPL, which is incompatible with pretty much any other license, open source or not.

I posted in another thread yesterday about this in regard to Adium/Pidgin, with the example that Pidgin doesn't work with OpenSSL because libpurple's GPL license is incompatible with OpenSSL's BSD-like license. Two open source products but developers are not free to use them together. So, if open source supposedly equals freedom, how can this be?

It's because, far from leading to freedom, the GPL actually limits freedom and choice: there's freedom only so long as everyone does what they are told and all software is licensed under the GPL's restrictive terms, and freedom only within the limits of the GPL.


EDIT: The succession plan demand is totally stupid. I think the group asking for this needs to find someone more intelligent to manage their money. Never a good idea to have idiots doing that for you.
post #44 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

I'm not an Apple shareholder... but if I was the idea of Jobs stepping down would make my heart skip a couple of beats.

I wonder if the plan set out by the board of directors in the event of something happening to Jobs is just to go all Weekend at Bernie's on his ass...?

It would probably have less of an effect on the share price than admitting there was a problem!

They kind of already did that once. Good reference !
post #45 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

If you notice the GCC Apple uses is rather old. It is my understanding that Apple like many organizations has rejected GPL version 3. LLVM & company predate GPL 3 though. I would have to say GPL 3 gave Apple a little push.

After Apple took over the funding of LLVM and before it brought forth Clang, libc++ and much more, the creator of LLVM came to GCC to offer his project to improve GCC. This was also the time that GCC was still GPLv2.

Several turf war arguments later and issues with licensing, not to mention RedHat being complete control freaks over GCC resulted in the end of the road for Apple and GCC.

http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2005-11/msg00888.html

Even before this Apple was having issues with the direction of GPLv3.

So was Linus Torvalds and his Linux Project.

His official view of FSF and the GPL regarding Linux was a big talk to the hand to Stallman.

READ IT. It's priceless.

http://lkml.org/lkml/2006/9/25/161
post #46 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by penchanted View Post

Not going to make a difference - this is an idealogical battle.

This is precisely the reason why, although I used to be a huge fan of open source software and still like it to a great degree, I am also becoming extremely angry at open source developers for being extremely selfish and idealistic rather than making their software more useful and available.

Another good example is the ZFS filesystem on Linux and h.264 support in Firefox.

To be perfectly honest, a lot of open source developers need to GET THE HELL OVER THEMSELVES.
post #47 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galley View Post

I believe that jackass's name is actually Rémi Denis-Courmont. http://www.remlab.net/

So, in the end, whose the successor?
Same Apple. Same Mac. Different Take. Different Place. http://Applemacness.com
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Same Apple. Same Mac. Different Take. Different Place. http://Applemacness.com
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post #48 of 121
RE: VLC

Open Source geeks get a little too worked up. So what if there is DRM attached to a FREE application! If you want the application, go onto iTunes and click "purchase" which seems like a weird word for something that is free.

I can give a lot of arguments why the Apple approach is good for the average person. The average geek will give me a ton of reasons why it is closed and prohibitive. I say spend a little more time with the average user that does stupid things... the closed approach is not all bad.

This licensing argument was just plain dumb. Purists
post #49 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViktorCode View Post

In the long run I believe GPL will lose by not having any major & relevant projects covered in the future. Restrictive nature of GPL v3 will push many projects to other (sane as someone put it) open source licences which wont restrict further code development and reuse in commercial world.

VLC lost already, more so on a Mac. On iOS there are better alternatives, more compatible with media formats and less buggy, though they cost money. On desktop I believe people are still using it only because they havent yet tried things like XBMC etc.

There is also Perian, which if you have it installed will eliminate the need for VLC except in some extreme cases. Perian also hooks into QuickTime so it's transparent and you don't have to worry about which player to use. I'm sure there are many other alternatives that I don't know about also.

Like many folks, I downloaded the iOS version the minute it came out in case it disappeared like it has today but in all honesty I only used it once. It serves almost no purpose on iOS and even though I have it, I wouldn't be bothered if I didn't.

People don't generally email each other DivX files and need to open them on their iPhone, iPad, etc., and given all the convoluted ways to get media onto an iOS device it's actually just as easy to import it into iTunes first and then it's converted anyway.
post #50 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by bunnyturd View Post

It's no secret that Rémi Denis-Courmon is not a fan of Apple. His day job is software engineer for Nokia.
http://lwn.net/Articles/356834/
Here is his photo. A bit pale and fugly.

He can look like someone glued a dog's ass to his head, but it doesn't make him wrong about the conflict issue.

And as he said, no one should be shocked about the pull. He talked it up enough that every blog was reporting it, given this of us that really really care enough time to grab the app


Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

I'm not an Apple shareholder... but if I was the idea of Jobs stepping down would make my heart skip a couple of beats.

Not sure why. Jobs 'stepped down' for close to six months not so long ago and the company didn't crumble. You almost couldn't tell he was missing what with the stock price going up, product lowing out etc. All those critics saying without Jobs Apple would be dead in six months aypte their words and declared that Cook et al did a great job

What folks need to remember is that Jobs handpicked a lot if not all of his executives. They have been raised in the ways of JobsThink with daily doses of the KoolAid. And tech is not an overnight thing. Jobs started working on the whole iPhone/iPad ten years ago. He's probably had other things going that long as well. And right is starting things we won't hear rumors about for another five years.

So even if he drops dead this second, the company knows where he was taking it and knows the answer to WWSD and things will go just fine. Even if they don't spell it all out because some shareholding group wants to feel like they have some control etc
post #51 of 121
Quote:
"At last, Apple has removed VLC media player from its application store. Thus the incompatibility between the GNU General Public License and the AppStore terms of use is resolved - the hard way," Denis-Courmon is reported as saying in a blog post. "I am not going to pity the owners of iDevices, and not even the MobileVLC developers who doubtless wasted a lot of their time. This end should not have come to a surprise to anyone."

Awesome. Now go take that Introduction to UI Design down at the local community college, and pass the info along to your open-source friends.

For having a lot of wherewithal and gumption, it amazes me how smart, dedicated open-source developers can't for the life of them figure out when something looks like shit. The VLC Mac app looks like Godzilla screwed a stapler. Guys, I'll pay $1 to have something that looks a little better than a pile of leaves.
post #52 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by bunnyturd View Post

...Here is his photo. A bit pale and fugly.

This comment is really out of line. What does his appearance have to do with anything?
post #53 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDave View Post

Stopped using VLC ages ago. Perian allows any QT based app to play/convert all legacy formats. Much smarter approach and brings in media to my iOS devices. The only thing the OSX version of VLC is good for is handbrake.

McD

Perian suits most of my playback needs, but I also use Movist. I like how it remembers the last position a video stopped, though I wish it would save this data long term. Movist is basically a nice looking version of VLC without all the crashiness.
http://www.macstories.net/reviews/movist/
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post #54 of 121
Good news re: VLC. Hopefully it won't be allowed back until it actually works.
post #55 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

Good news re: VLC. Hopefully it won't be allowed back until it actually works.

What didn't work about it for you?
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #56 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

What does his appearance have to do with anything?

Don't want to step on any toes here, but in many cases with everything.

Which of us is the fisherman and which the trout?

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Which of us is the fisherman and which the trout?

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post #57 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Nothing against the Labor and CalPERS but I'll be voting down both of their proposals in the proxy vote.

I'd like to read them first.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #58 of 121
Rémi Denis-Courmont is a jackass, and a coward, where's the comments section on his blog? Up an orifice of his probably. What a gutsy move from the Nokia employee... And that quote, "I have no pity for...", oh please Rémi show the developers and users some pity... as if there aren't tens of video playing apps for ios costing peanuts.... jackass.
post #59 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


In a year from now not one piece of Apple software will be built with GCC. It will all be LLVM/Clang and libc++ will eventually supersede libstdc++.

That will be one nice day when it happens.
post #60 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamC View Post

What is this guy Rémi Denis-Courmon up to, he was the one who pointed out the discrepancy and if he did not VLC will still be in the apps store.

So he is the one kicking the other vlc developers.

Pity? or one with a paid agenda by ..... your guess is as good as mine.



He works for Nokia if that tell you anything. He makes a living working against Nokia. His hobby is apparently to sabotage any VLC projects on Apple products. What a douchebag.. and an ugly one too... see post above for his mugshot.
post #61 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Povilas View Post

Don't want to step on any toes here, but in many cases with everything.

So .. you are arguing that a persons race, gender and general appearance is the most important aspect to consider when talking about their actions or beliefs?

Whether the person is white, black ugly or beautiful has nothing to do with this at all. I don't know why the admins here (who are really fast with the banning usually and for very slight offences), are letting mister bunnyturd and a few others spend their time insulting this guy.

Why not focus on what he *did* and leave his personal appearance etc. out of it, instead of getting all bigoted on his ass for no reason?
post #62 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

You must have something wrong with your Mac because I've been using VLC since back in the day and I use it heavily watching 720p blu-ray movies on my slow 2007 Macbook. And everyone I know who has a Mac and TB HDs of blu-ray movies in mkv format uses it as well without a single crash.

I'm not the only one here who has noticed VLC's unreliability. Furthermore it's been buggy not just my 2008 Unibody Macbook, but on a titanium Powerbook G4, a G3 iBook, Windows XP and Mythbuntu 10.04. Whilst there's the probability of my being very unlucky with all these diverse systems over the past five years, a problem with VLC is a more rational deduction.

There's also the possibility of the media files being the issue.
post #63 of 121
I second Prof. Peabody’s comment.
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post #64 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

You think a free app like VLC is somehow going to convince Apple to change their licensing structure and deal with GPLv3. You're dreaming.

In a year from now not one piece of Apple software will be built with GCC. It will all be LLVM/Clang and libc++ will eventually supersede libstdc++.

In actual tests, clang and company are not much faster than the GCC. Besides, both are standards that all can use, not just apple.
post #65 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

The problem here is not Apple, The problem is the GPL, which is incompatible with pretty much any other license, open source or not.

I posted in another thread yesterday about this in regard to Adium/Pidgin, with the example that Pidgin doesn't work with OpenSSL because libpurple's GPL license is incompatible with OpenSSL's BSD-like license. Two open source products but developers are not free to use them together. So, if open source supposedly equals freedom, how can this be?

It's because, far from leading to freedom, the GPL actually limits freedom and choice: there's freedom only so long as everyone does what they are told and all software is licensed under the GPL's restrictive terms, and freedom only within the limits of the GPL.


EDIT: The succession plan demand is totally stupid. I think the group asking for this needs to find someone more intelligent to manage their money. Never a good idea to have idiots doing that for you.

Where did you read that nonsense? BSD's license is totally compatible with GPL regardless of version. Nothing prevents Pidgin from using openssl due to the GPL.

Edit: Just read said nonsense at their web site: Ridiculous. They can't be bothered to include one sentence.

Yes, yes, I read this:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/bsd.html

But that's just being anal. FSF states this clearly "However, there is no reason not to use programs that have been released under the original BSD license."

"See my point?"

Yes.

In any case...

The GPL prevents people like apple from becoming freeloaders. They tried to be lazy with webkit and thankfully they made sure they did their duty and released their improvements back to the community.
post #66 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

The GPL prevents people like apple from becoming freeloaders. They tried to be lazy with webkit and thankfully they made sure they did their duty and released their improvements back to the community.

The troll is strong with this one.


Exactly when did Apple try to be lazy with WebKit and why werent they successful in their laziness? love to see some proof of this.
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post #67 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

In actual tests, clang and company are not much faster than the GCC. Besides, both are standards that all can use, not just apple.

The performance, debugging robustness and much more will just continue to grow LLVM/Clang as time goes on.

GCC for OS X is terminal at 4.2 for GPLv3 reasons. You can MacPorts in gcc-current and not work with much of Cocoa all you want, or you can just use LLVM/Clang and be about your merry way.

C++Ox status is moving steadily along for C++ lovers, as well:

http://clang.llvm.org/cxx_status.html

For myself, I can use LLVM/Clang/libc++ with libstdc++ on Linux or OS X and not panic about the GPLv3.
post #68 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The troll is strong with this one.


Exactly when did Apple try to be lazy with WebKit and why werent they successful in their laziness? love to see some proof of this.

Never mind that WebKit is a rewrite of any work by KDE and from it's inception was designed to work with both commercial and free projects w/o coercive licensing.
post #69 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The troll is strong with this one.


Exactly when did Apple try to be lazy with WebKit and why werent they successful in their laziness? love to see some proof of this.

Webkit is perfectly fine; it's the original work they did with KHTML. It wasn't the end of the world, but they weren't exactly forthcoming with their patches either.

http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/1001
post #70 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Never mind that WebKit is a rewrite of any work by KDE and from it's inception was designed to work with both commercial and free projects w/o coercive licensing.

Webkit can't be licensed under anything but the GPL, *correction, LGPL*. It doesn't prevent Safari from being non-GPL either, but it does stop them from just taking it and not giving back to the KDE developers

This whole GPL stuff posted here is just a bunch of FUD.
post #71 of 121
I see all the fanbots are out trying to defend Apple's lack of of a succession plan disclosure. How sad that Apple is only the sum of one man.
post #72 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

Webkit can't be licensed under anything but the GPL. And notice how it doesn't prevent Safari from being non-GPL either.

This whole GPL stuff posted here is just a bunch of FUD.

Webkit is LGPL and BSD, not GPL. If it were GPL then Safari couldn't be proprietary and Webkit would have about a 0.5% market share.

OpenSSL is not licensed under BSD but dual licensed under Apache 1.0 and SSLeay license. The Apache 1.0 has an advertising clause and is incompatible with the GPL without an explicit exception.

The rabid FSF folks are the worst kind of freeloaders with RMS demanding folks call Linux GNU/Linux. Especially given that open source code sharing with GPL projects is almost completely one way into GPL and not back out to the rest of the OSS community. The nice thing is that permissive license users don't really care about "freeloading". They just like it when their code is useful.

The best kind of freetards are the kind that don't even understand GPL but flame others anyway.
post #73 of 121
Who needs a "App Store" to get VLC anyway? And VLC works great on my 2006 matte iMac.
post #74 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by pt123 View Post

The article says "Apple has pulled the VLC video player app from the App Store", nothing about iOS. Try readiing the article again.

Wrong again. The article is referring to the mobile version of VLC. The Mac version is not and never has been available on the Mac AppStore since the Mac store has only been open for a couple of days now. VLC has been removed from the iOS AppStore. You are mistaken.
post #75 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLiver View Post

Who needs a "App Store" to get VLC anyway? And VLC works great on my 2006 matte iMac.

Jeez, reading comprehension please! This report is referring to the iOS AppStore, NOT the OS X AppStore. VLC is not and never has been on the OS X AppStore.
post #76 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

btw I already have VLC on my iPhone and I expect the developer to continue supporting any issues I have under the agreement I entered into at the time I downloaded the software.

This is a piece of GPL software.

Therefore, unless the MobileVLC team added their own serarate supplemnetary support agreement (which I strongly doubt), your agreement with the developer goes something along these lines: The program is provided "... “AS IS” WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF THE PROGRAM IS WITH YOU. SHOULD THE PROGRAM PROVE DEFECTIVE, YOU ASSUME THE COST OF ALL NECESSARY SERVICING, REPAIR OR CORRECTION."

Even in light of the app being pulled from the App Store, the developers will have absolutely no difficulty whatsoever in continuing to honour their end of that agreement.

If, however, as the license states, you wish to continue supporting yourself, just ask the MobileVLC developers for access to the source code (it is your right to make this request, since the software is GPL after all). Then purchase a membership in the iOS developer's program, and use your own copy of XCode to make the necessray modifications and install it on your own iDevice.

Aside: I suspect it should be fairly easy for this software to enjoy a second incarnation as a piece of software that is distributed to specifically target either:
1) Jailbroken iOS devices, which do not have the DRM restriction, or

2) The iOS simulator (wink, wink, nudge, nudge), which also does not have any DRM restriction and hence cannot fall afoul of the GPL's restrictions.

(Coincidentally, option 2 could also be installed on any real iOS device if the owner happens to have a membership in the iOS developer's program. This second step could be accomplished with minimal modification, but without involving any redistribution, and therefore would not bring up any of the GPL's requirements regarding DRM because that only applies for redistribution.)
post #77 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Jeez, reading comprehension please! This report is referring to the iOS AppStore, NOT the OS X AppStore. VLC is not and never has been on the OS X AppStore.

Well why would anyone ever bother in the first place with VLC on an iOs device? Sounds like way too much trouble to begin with- just accept the fact that Apple only wants you to buy from iTunes in the first place or simply switch to a Droid.
post #78 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLiver View Post

Well why would anyone ever bother in the first place with VLC on an iOs device? Sounds like way too much trouble to begin with- just accept the fact that Apple only wants you to buy from iTunes in the first place or simply switch to a Droid.

Apple was actually perfectly happy to host VLC -- Apple only removed it after a dissenter from within the VLC camp objected to other members of the VLC development team making use of his contributed code, contrary to the terms under which he had released it, without obtaining his permission.
post #79 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

Webkit is LGPL and BSD, not GPL. If it were GPL then Safari couldn't be proprietary and Webkit would have about a 0.5% market share.

It still prevents them from free loading, LGPL or not.

Quote:
OpenSSL is not licensed under BSD but dual licensed under Apache 1.0 and SSLeay license. The Apache 1.0 has an advertising clause and is incompatible with the GPL without an explicit exception.

Which is exactly the same reason for the BSD issue. No difference.

Quote:
The rabid FSF folks are the worst kind of freeloaders with RMS demanding folks call Linux GNU/Linux. Especially given that open source code sharing with GPL projects is almost completely one way into GPL and not back out to the rest of the OSS community. The nice thing is that permissive license users don't really care about "freeloading". They just like it when their code is useful.

You are making no sense, as GNU/LINUX is the right name to call it. It's the GNU software + Linux kernel, neither of each would be anywhere without the other. Linux happens to be GPL v2. because Linus doesn't care about the whole GPL 3 clause about patents and is more pragmatic (ie a compromiser).

Why are you saying it is one way? With just about every project depending on another (like Handbrake on FFMPEG and x264, work done by VLC), you need to clairfy.


Quote:
The best kind of freetards are the kind that don't even understand GPL but flame others anyway.

Looks like you fall into that category.
post #80 of 121
The licensing discrepancy was apparently brought to Apple's attention by VLC developer Rémi Denis-Courmon.

"At last, Apple has removed VLC media player from its application store. Thus the incompatibility between the GNU General Public License and the AppStore terms of use is resolved - the hard way," Denis-Courmon is reported as saying in a blog post. "I am not going to pity the owners of iDevices, and not even the MobileVLC developers who doubtless wasted a lot of their time. This end should not have come to a surprise to anyone."



Considering it was Denis-Courmo that made the stink about it, they call that cutting off your nose to spite your face.

He f*cked a lot of people out of a great app.
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