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Verizon iPhone to use existing plans, similar to AT&T - Page 5

post #161 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwiztdWun View Post

They also know if they do not do this, they will be surpassed by Android....oh....they already are.

Wow and people talk about the Apple juice. You are chugging the VZW/Android juice by the gallon!

You still don't understand that Android passing the iPhone is NOT a big accomplishment.

More phones running Android on more carriers WILL give you more sales. I would say it's sad it

took them this long. Plus it doesn't hurt sale numbers when you have buy one get one free. VZW

seems to love those deals!
post #162 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwiztdWun View Post

Yes, the Palm Treo Pro. However, that is a whole different reason. The phone was never released to the public. It was only sold to a certain customer.

I realize that Apple will never let someone brand their product. I have also never seen VZW give up the ability to troubleshoot and replace the devices they sale, however, you will see it with the iPhone.

I assume your point your trying to make is that since it is not being logoed by VZW then Apple obviously had the bigger pud in the meeting. That idea would mean nothing. I have given up certain things to gain more on the backend of the deal. Companies do it everyday.

That is exactly what I am getting at and I am trying to figure out what concessions Apple made. One possibility would be a lower handset cost. Another would be a Vcast app on the homepage. Apple's concession(s) might or might not be visible, or they might be non-existent.
post #163 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwiztdWun View Post

We know Verizon lost sales to ATT solely because of the iPhone. Everyone knows that. I have also seen huge accounts go to ATT for the iPhone and come back a few weeks later and use Android devices due to ATT's network. Those are lost sales no matter how you cut it. However, the table has turned on Apple with the dominance of Android. If they do not go to VZW, they will lose more money than VZW will. VZW could do more easily without the the device than Apple could do without VZW unless they go to more US carriers.....Sprint, TMo, US Cellular...however, that is much harder to do than just jumping on the biggest boat to begin with. The new lineup of Android based phones are phenominal. I am not just saying this, but, their specs speak for themselves.

I am not saying Apple will not be a fantastically profitable company as they are saturated globally now...however, they will lose more money by not opening another pathway for sales. They also know if they do not do this, they will be surpassed by Android....oh....they already are.

This is preventitive maintanance and a move to ensure longevity in the game. It is a smart move. It is also a smart move on VZW to get Apple. It is now offering a product that has become more than a device. It has become an icon. It has its own life so to speak.

VZW does not need Apple just like Apple does not need VZW. However, VZW has the leverage back in their court now as they have the largest wireless customer base in the US.

Sure, they could have went to Sprint or TMo, but, their customer base is rather small compared to VZW. Sure, they would have gained more customers by getting the iPhone, but, Apple knows which grass is greener.

I look at it as a postive move by both companies. I do not try to come up with excuses as to why this is doing better than that. I look at the end result and let it speak for itself.

I just don't agree. We can see what's happening. AT&T would eclipse Verizon in a month if Verizon doesn't get the iPhone. In a year, AT&T would have 4 million more subscribers. In two years they would be ahead by ten. The ONLY reason why Android is selling as well as it is, is because it's easily available to the 70% of the cell population that isn't on AT&T. It's pretty simple.

Verizon will add between 50 and 75% more iPhone sales in the US per year, and will take away from Android's growth. If the iPhone goes on the other networks (and there's an interesting question there), then sales will increase another 25 to 35%. Again, subtracting from Android's growth. Hitting the BB too, of course.

The question about the other networks is interesting because a couple of people in the industry are reporting that Verizon wants the iPhone so badly it's willing to pay Apple extra to keep it off Sprint and T-Mobile. True? I don't know. But interesting if it is.

Android is filling the "iPhone gap", as I like to call it. Wherever there isn't an iPhone, Android fills the space. When the iPhone does get there, it takes some of the market back.
post #164 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastoriser View Post

Wow and people talk about the Apple juice. You are chugging the VZW/Android juice by the gallon!

You still don't understand that Android passing the iPhone is NOT a big accomplishment.

More phones running Android on more carriers WILL give you more sales. I would say it's sad it

took them this long. Plus it doesn't hurt sale numbers when you have buy one get one free. VZW

seems to love those deals!

You need to let this go. Even though there was an inevitability to Android phone sales surpassing iPhone sales, it is still a real milestone and needs to be acknowledged for what it is.
post #165 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

The average Texas BBQ is > 8 Million? Try again.

One thing is true about Texas. It's Flat. Austria has all the obstacles to interrupt communications with their rugged terrains and steep grades. What's Texas's excuse? Glass towers?

Here's a map showing Europe superimposed over the USA. We can easily see why it's far more expensive to add cable or fiber here in the USA.

Austria is really a tiny country; 32,000 square miles..

http://goeurope.about.com/od/europea...arison-map.htm
post #166 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwiztdWun View Post

First, Ivan has thanked me personally. I have met him and shook his hand a couple of times.

And you make my point perfectly about the blindness of Apple fans.

It is like arguing that someone is retarded. Then you say that is only because he bumped his head really hard. Guess what, they are still retarded. How they got to that point is of no concern.....the end result is what matters.

So what if Android is on 80 different models of phones? You can argue the means all you want, however, the ends is all that matters.

You guys think I am here to cause trouble. I am not. It is not an argument and as I said earlier, I was looking forward to this day and welcome the opportunities it brings for both VZW and Apple. Again, I am a fan of Apple. Have many of their products, however, I will speak the truth about the situation and will not cloud anything up.

bahahaha prove it... And Steve has come over to my house for dinner.

well aren't you just Mr. High and mighty and the A typical 9 to 5er. All you look at is the bottom line.

So, if it were to happen that Apple out sold Android by forcing customers to buy their phone by gun point that has no validity in the argument because all that matter is the end result. This just in Apple sells and iPhone to every cell phone customer in the US... but they got there by forcing the customer to buy the iPhone. Meh who cares they still are number 1! Woo rejoice!

You make a point, but like you said it's a retarded point that leaves out several variables.

Yes they have sold more phones, however, that does not make them better than the iPhone.

You are too business oriented and not looking at this from the consumer perspective. All you want is more, more, more.

Personally I don't have an iPhone or an Android phone, so to call me a fan boy is fallacy.

I hope VZW gets the iPhone so their slow network can be bogged down and run even worse than AT&T's

That will finally shut everyone up about VZW being sooo amazing, when they are just like every other carrier.

I wouldn't call what you are saying truth, nor would I say you aren't clouding things up.

You are merrily speaking opinion.
post #167 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by penchanted View Post

You need to let this go. Even though there was an inevitability to Android phone sales surpassing iPhone sales, it is still a real milestone and needs to be acknowledged for what it is.


Android lover... I'm sorry if I offended you...
post #168 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Android is filling the "iPhone gap", as I like to call it. Wherever there isn't an iPhone, Android fills the space. When the iPhone does get there, it takes some of the market back.

Bingo!
post #169 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastoriser View Post

Android lover... I'm sorry if I offended you...

Android lover? Where'd you come up with that.

The numbers are what they are. You can sit and say "But this", "But that", "But the other thing" all you want and it will not change those numbers. As I have pointed out before, I am not sure many of those Android vendors are making any money and I think this will affect future growth. Apple's profits are outsized relative to its marketshare and, as an Apple shareholder, that matters more to me.
post #170 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I just don't agree. We can see what's happening. AT&T would eclipse Verizon in a month if Verizon doesn't get the iPhone. In a year, AT&T would have 4 million more subscribers. In two years they would be ahead by ten. The ONLY reason why Android is selling as well as it is, is because it's easily available to the 70% of the cell population that isn't on AT&T. It's pretty simple..

It is a possibility that ATT could have surpassed VZW with the iPhone on its own. I will not deny that. It would have been tough to do with VZW pushing 4G and the new phones coming out for it. Android is gaining recognition in the smartphone world. This is because of their massive saturation like Windows to the PC, it is really hard to miss the target when you fire more bullets from more guns than the next guy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Verizon will add between 50 and 75% more iPhone sales in the US per year, and will take away from Android's growth. If the iPhone goes on the other networks (and there's an interesting question there), then sales will increase another 25 to 35%. Again, subtracting from Android's growth. Hitting the BB too, of course..

I hope they add that much. For Apple and VZW's sake. I look for the BB to take a bigger hit than Android. I look at BB as a one trick pony and they have maneuvered themselves into that corner. People look at Appl OS and Android OS as the 1 stop shop for work and play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The question about the other networks is interesting because a couple of people in the industry are reporting that Verizon wants the iPhone so badly it's willing to pay Apple extra to keep it off Sprint and T-Mobile. True? I don't know. But interesting if it is..

It would definately be a smart move depending on the cost to block the other carriers, however, I question this story as earlier this year, VZW publicly announced that they will not lock a device down for more than 6 months. They stated it is not beneficial to the consumer or the smaller carriers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Android is filling the "iPhone gap", as I like to call it. Wherever there isn't an iPhone, Android fills the space. When the iPhone does get there, it takes some of the market back.

I agree. However, due to Apple being exclusive with ATT for so long, people have settled with an alternative device that has grown and become more appealing and more mature to the average consumer. Android took off slow as they were predominantly on the smaller carriers. As they have moved to the bigger carriers like VZW and ATT, their growth has exploded. Obviously with lots of help with these give-away promotions and major marketing, however you cut the cake, they have exceeded and succeeded.

I want the VZW iPhone. I want to have it, however, I am waiting to see what it is and what the specs are as I may wait for the next version to get it. As I stated earlier, I look for it to be no different than the current iPhone 4, just a CDMA version.

If I am wrong and this one has LTE, I will definately be one of the first in line.
post #171 of 182
[QUOTE=beastoriser;1782072]So, if it were to happen that Apple out sold Android by forcing customers to buy their phone by gun point that has no validity in the argument because all that matter is the end result.[QUOTE]

Billy Madison,because of this statement alone, anyone who has read it has just become more dumberer.
post #172 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwiztdWun View Post

It is a possibility that ATT could have surpassed VZW with the iPhone on its own. I will not deny that. It would have been tough to do with VZW pushing 4G and the new phones coming out for it. Android is gaining recognition in the smartphone world. This is because of their massive saturation like Windows to the PC, it is really hard to miss the target when you fire more bullets from more guns than the next guy.

I'm not so sure how much 4G will help them yet. This isn't "real" 4G as we know, and speeds aren't that much faster than HPSA+ (if I got the initials correct). AT&T goes to 7.2 and possibly as much as 14.4 in some areas. 4G as planned from Verizon, and as we see with Sprint, though that's a different method, goes not much higher, and often is lower. The other problem in these early phone implementations is battery life. It's quite frankly, crap. The best advice given for the EVO is to turn the 4G off. What good is that/ Most people use these high speeds for short spurts. If you have to turn it on, and wait the 30 seconds to a minute for it to lock, you've wasted the time.

No, it'll take more time before 4G is a big selling point. As people get their hands on those devices, they see that they aren't so great. but, you know, I understand why Verizon is pushing them so hard. Their network really is slow compared to AT&T.


[quote]
I hope they add that much. For Apple and VZW's sake. I look for the BB to take a bigger hit than Android. I look at BB as a one trick pony and they have maneuvered themselves into that corner. People look at Appl OS and Android OS as the 1 stop shop for work and play.

It would definately be a smart move depending on the cost to block the other carriers, however, I question this story as earlier this year, VZW publicly announced that they will not lock a device down for more than 6 months. They stated it is not beneficial to the consumer or the smaller carriers.[quote]

Not allowing a phone to be sold by another carrier is very different fro unlocking a phone. I also doubt that Verizon did it for the benefit of the customer, as Verizon is not known for doing anything for the benefit of the customer. The reasons I've read had to do with Verizon trying to convince potential customers that they could leave if they weren't satisfied with Verizon's superior network. In other words a marketing ploy. Most people aren't interested in unlocking their phones after 6 months anyway, so they didn't lose much.

Quote:
I agree. However, due to Apple being exclusive with ATT for so long, people have settled with an alternative device that has grown and become more appealing and more mature to the average consumer. Android took off slow as they were predominantly on the smaller carriers. As they have moved to the bigger carriers like VZW and ATT, their growth has exploded. Obviously with lots of help with these give-away promotions and major marketing, however you cut the cake, they have exceeded and succeeded.

Did you read any of those surveys I was taking numbers from? No? Well, it's true. a lot of people just can't wait to get rid of their Droids and Galaxy's and replace then with iPhones.

Quote:
I want the VZW iPhone. I want to have it, however, I am waiting to see what it is and what the specs are as I may wait for the next version to get it. As I stated earlier, I look for it to be no different than the current iPhone 4, just a CDMA version.

If I am wrong and this one has LTE, I will definately be one of the first in line.

I'm waiting until FIOS reaches my neighborhood. Then, if they offer the right deal for the whole package (I still have a Verizon land line), I'll go for it. But as time gets closer to the June launch of the iPhone 5 or whatever it will be called, I'm more likely to wait. We had 3G's, went to the 4, and I see no purpose to move to a new 4 on Verizon just because of FIOS, that would be dumb.
post #173 of 182
VZW bought what was considered the premium spectrum for LTE. Their plan is to make everyone else's ceiling their floor.

While it is true the current LTE speeds are not much better than the HPSA+, it has alot of headroom. I look for this to be raised as the market is more saturated and VZW is holding a few bullets back to use for marketing agaisnt ATT when the time arises.

When I said locking the phone down, it was a bad choice of words. A more accurate description would be to say VZW is trying to keep exclusivity to them and ATT. I believe ATT was also in on the information regarding a VZW iPhone due to their post about it today. I wouldn't be surprised if the deal regarding VZW paying Apple some $$ to keep it exclusive is true, ATT got something out of it too, or maybe even had to pay to keep them from going to a third or fourth carrier as well.

VZW's stance on exclusivity for 6 months has many sides to it. Yes, they marketed that it made it more fair to the consumer and the smaller carriers, but, the backend of the deal is that it made VZW look like they are more willing to play nice than ATT or Apple. Winning the crowds loyalty with not what was said, but, how it was said.

There are alot of people wanting the iPhone that currently have Androids. Only a crazy man would think otherwise. I currently have the Samsung Fascinate. Unless the first VZW iPhone has had some improvements, I do not look to move right away as the screen on this Sammy is amazing.

If you want to see something funny, when a customer brings up the iPhone to me, the first question I ask is " What is it about the iPhone that makes you want one? " The response is funny. It usually involves the person dropping their heads and thinking for a few seconds. They don't know why they want it other than it is an iPhone. They are usually clueless.

My point is this, if Apple would have released a VZW iPhone 18 months ago, I think we would be talking about Android about the same way we talk about Betamax. However, it was not released and Android, because it is a free OS and was literally given away to customers, has grown a fanbase that is just as vicious as Apples. No, they don't have the products or PC's,but, it is still a force to be dealt with regardless. Wait until the Google PC OC gets released.
post #174 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwiztdWun View Post

... However, it was not released and Android, because it is a free OS and was literally given away to customers, has grown a fanbase that is just as vicious as Apples. No, they don't have the products or PC's,but, it is still a force to be dealt with regardless. Wait until the Google PC OC gets released.

Let's say "enthusiastic".
post #175 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwiztdWun View Post

VZW bought what was considered the premium spectrum for LTE. Their plan is to make everyone else's ceiling their floor.

I wouldn't say they bought the premium spectrum, from what I see of it, but They certainly did buy the most spectrum. They do have a big advantage with that, if they do it right.

Quote:
While it is true the current LTE speeds are not much better than the HPSA+, it has alot of headroom. I look for this to be raised as the market is more saturated and VZW is holding a few bullets back to use for marketing agaisnt ATT when the time arises.

It's not so much a matter of holding back, as it is technology and cost. Right now, there's no way to get these high speeds with "real" LTE, which no one is using yet, because the equipment isn't available except for experimental purposes. In about a year, we'll some of that coming out.

Quote:
When I said locking the phone down, it was a bad choice of words. A more accurate description would be to say VZW is trying to keep exclusivity to them and ATT. I believe ATT was also in on the information regarding a VZW iPhone due to their post about it today. I wouldn't be surprised if the deal regarding VZW paying Apple some $$ to keep it exclusive is true, ATT got something out of it too, or maybe even had to pay to keep them from going to a third or fourth carrier as well.

Ok, we can agree on that then.

Quote:
VZW's stance on exclusivity for 6 months has many sides to it. Yes, they marketed that it made it more fair to the consumer and the smaller carriers, but, the backend of the deal is that it made VZW look like they are more willing to play nice than ATT or Apple. Winning the crowds loyalty with not what was said, but, how it was said.

That was the point I was making. This is all about marketing. Give people what very few of them will use, but that most THINK they MIGHT use, and you are ahead with little expense. Of course, if all carriers begin to do that, then it will become a war. We will see the time extended first to 9 months, then to 12, and oh oh. That's the time period where most people might start using it, and every carrier will be sorry they pursued this.


There are alot of people wanting the iPhone that currently have Androids. Only a crazy man would think otherwise. I currently have the Samsung Fascinate. Unless the first VZW iPhone has had some improvements, I do not look to move right away as the screen on this Sammy is amazing.

If you want to see something funny, when a customer brings up the iPhone to me, the first question I ask is " What is it about the iPhone that makes you want one? " The response is funny. It usually involves the person dropping their heads and thinking for a few seconds. They don't know why they want it other than it is an iPhone. They are usually clueless.

My point is this, if Apple would have released a VZW iPhone 18 months ago, I think we would be talking about Android about the same way we talk about Betamax. However, it was not released and Android, because it is a free OS and was literally given away to customers, has grown a fanbase that is just as vicious as Apples. No, they don't have the products or PC's,but, it is still a force to be dealt with regardless. Wait until the Google PC OC gets released.[/QUOTE]

Android isn't as free as most people and writers, it seems, think it is. Yes, the OS itself is free. But Google's apps, such as maps, aren't free. Companies have to pay for those, and if they buy the package, it costs about $8 per phone license-about what MS charges for Win Mobile or WP7 WITH their apps. Ironic that a free OS costs so much eh? That's why, in case people are wondering, some phone manufacturers and carriers substitute their own apps for some of Google's. Not to give a better experience to the user, but to give a cheaper one to the manufacturer and carrier.
post #176 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Android isn't as free as most people and writers, it seems, think it is. Yes, the OS itself is free. But Google's apps, such as maps, aren't free. Companies have to pay for those, and if they buy the package, it costs about $8 per phone license-about what MS charges for Win Mobile or WP7 WITH their apps. Ironic that a free OS costs so much eh? That's why, in case people are wondering, some phone manufacturers and carriers substitute their own apps for some of Google's. Not to give a better experience to the user, but to give a cheaper one to the manufacturer and carrier.

I have yet to see a Google based app that is not free. My Sammy was plugged with VZW crap. Rooted it, cleaned it and installed the Google maps and navigation system diretly from their app store. It was free. They are available to anybody free.
post #177 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

How about without data, hmm? I have zero use for it.

IT. I know people that have tried android and iPhone and while iPhone rocks, people love their Droids. Especially since Google has a lot of things that MM offers but for free.
post #178 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwiztdWun View Post

I have yet to see a Google based app that is not free. My Sammy was plugged with VZW crap. Rooted it, cleaned it and installed the Google maps and navigation system diretly from their app store. It was free. They are available to anybody free.

Nope. Those apps cost the manufacturer.

http://theunlockr.com/2009/09/26/the...e-vs-cyanogen/

There's more out there about Google's charges for these, and some other apps, but this should give you the idea.
post #179 of 182
ATT should consider doing rollover data on their plans. A likely low-cost differentiator to Verizon data plans.

I have a hard time seeing Verizon keeping unlimited plans for very much longer.
post #180 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

You'd give up simultaneous data and voice for 2GB+ data? How much data do you actually use? Remember even with ATT, you can go over 2 GB - you get 4GB for $50. I found that only one month did I go over even 1 GB of data use, and that was a month when I used my iphone sim card to create a MyWi network on my JB old iphone because I was stuck in a hotel without wifi and needed internet. Even including that 5GB+ month, I still averaged less than 1.5 GB per month this year.

I for one would definitely take advantage of unltd data. I stream videos alot and according to apples breakdown of data usage 2g gets you around 2000 minutes of streaming YouTube videos. Not sure if the same applies to Netflix. Ive gone over once before, it just sucks having to constantly check my usage. I would forego simultaneous voice and data (a feature that's great but not a real necessity) for unlimited data. And 2G if data for teetering and family plans? That's absurd.
post #181 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

What what what?

There's NO REASON? How about the fact that such a thing hasn't yet existed? Do you think Verizon has this awesome new feature that could benefit all of their smartphone users and they've been keeping it a secret?

Sorry, anything's possible, but the fact that it defies logic AND it hasn't yet ever been done is good enough reason to believe they haven't implemented it.

This guy I know from down the street calls that "The Common Sense Rule"

If you read the information from the press conference, Verizon said they would have simultaneous voice/date over the CDMA network by the end of the year

Folks at Boy Genius Report have noted that Verizon may be launching its CDMA iPhone with VoRA (Voice over Rev A) technology. VoRA is one of the most recent technologies that help networks to increase peak data transmission speeds while enabling telephony based services like Voice and Push to talk. BGR notes that Verizon has been testing VoRA as a precursor to the VoLTE network (Verizon's 4G LTE Network), which it plans to rollout towards the end of the year.
post #182 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I doubt it. Data on cellphones is the carriers bread and butter. You might be able to find some work around but I think that would be more likely on an unlocked iPhone GSM, not an iPhone CDMA which will have to be cracked.



If Verizon keeps unlimited data for the iPhone -and- AT&T disallows the continuation of unlimited data when you sign a new iPhone contract Id have to consider switching, even if it meant losing simultaneous voice and data, and losing the speed of HS*PA. Outside of that I have no use for Verizon.


You don't need to unlock an iPhone GSM in order to use it without a data plan. Simply install a non-data plan SIM card and it will work. My son is using my old 3GS with no problems -- cellular for phone calls and WiFI for data.
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