Verizon iPhone to use existing plans, similar to AT&T - Page 3

No, you didn't say anything could happen, in a serious way. You said:


That's the same as saying NO, it won't happen.

Do you think that Apple, which has so heavily advertised this feature ever since the iPhone first came out would so easily give it up? I think it's very important to them. And as I said, there's no reason to believe it isn't being done. Maybe it isn't, but I would find that hard to believe, as it's been possible for a while now, and Verizon's had enough time to implement it.

You're using as an excuse the fact that we haven't heard about it. That's a poor reason. I would also think that it's a competitive disadvantage for Verizon, and would give AT&T a good advertising campaign.

This feature, as I said, if mentioned, would have been a vey good indicator of the iPhone's arrival, and I doubt that either Apple or Verizon wanted that before this Tuesday. There are excellent reasons given for that, and it's been in another article here, as well as other places.

Can't make calls with an iPod touch.

First person to say VOIP gets to tell me how they expect me to make VOIP calls when I don't have a Wi-Fi connection. Say I'm in an accident or have an emergency. I need access to the telephony network. I have zero need for the data network.

Now you're not even presenting an argument, just making a silly statement.

The iPhone was the biggest thing in CES, even before the announcement, so yes, there's no question that the iPhone's capabilities in this area are very important. And, we don't know if any other current CDMA phone, or any that are just coming out can do this yet. It must also be implemented in the phone. No network ability to do this means that phones on those networks don't need the capability. So, for Verizon to want to keep this secret has a number of reasons.

No argument. I would not change unless the service and the capabilities of the iPhone were as good or better.

As well as Apple. I can see this being a requirement put upon Verizon to get the iPhone, as well as an exclusivity that no competing phones with this feature will be sold for a set time frame.

My reasoning is Apple wants the user experience to be as consistence as possible across the iPhone. The only choices the user makes involved the carrier type and their associated service plans.

I agree. I do not believe for one second SJ would permit an iPhone to be released with less than the capabilities it now has on AT&T.

Sure. Can you imagine what would happen if a couple of million people want to move to Verizon, and AFTER they do, find out that they can't do what they did before? Man! Verizon would be so screwed.

Look, I admit that just because I can't find a reason why this wouldn't be done that that PROVES that it will be done, but it's hard to imagine why it wouldn't.

I thought I bookmarked the article that had some good technical info about this new rule and standard that explained it, but I don't seem to know what I put it under right now. The gist of it was that it wouldn't be too difficult to implement.

Unlike Att I wonder if they allow you to buy it outright so as not to have to pay a stupid data plan, since unlike Att cannot rationalize needing a data plan due to visual voicemail.

Probably not.

thats just a hell of a lot of money to make a phone call

The best info i can find involves the aforementioned QChat from Qualcomm. What else can it be but VoIP over EV-DO Rev. A?


Talk time
I know I hit on this earlier, but I wanted to make sure its a clear point. The iPhone 4 has 3G talk time of 7 hours and 2G talk time of 14 hours. The only devices that beat the 3G talk time to reiterate, this means you have 3G' activated on the device even though it still uses CDMA 2G for voice are those on Verizon and Sprint. Adding VoIP over EV-DO Rev. A would mean talk time is actually over 3G. It might even be less efficient than the way voice and data WCDMA works, but Id imagine equivalent battery life.

The difference comes when comparing over Verizon phones to the iPhone. Some will wonder why everything on the iPhone is longer except 3G talk time. I doubt that will be a deal breaker, but I thought it should get mentioned.

You know, every detail is important. But will most people notice the time? Possibly we will get better call quality, though I've not complained about mine. It is true that voice over GSM is worse than over CDMA.

From what Ive read the voice algorithm over UMTS and CDMA are both on par. Its the GSM that is really poor. However, Ive read there are several voice algorithms and/or quality levels that can be sued depending on need so its possible CDMA could still be better than UMTS.

I wonder how this is affected with VoIP over EV-DO and if millions of iPhones doing real time voice with QoS over EV-DO will affect the network load significantly.

VOIP has been getting better, but it still, at least to me, can sound echo-y at times. You do need a GOOD broadband connection. I've found that over WiFi, it's usually fine, except for some times when the internet's having problems, but that it's usually worse over most 3G connections.

Damn soli those are landline amounts. I use my phone a lot and never go past 3GB.

Hmm.. crazy thought…
Maybe Apple created it.
Maybe they took the voice and initiation protocols used in FaceTime to make this happen over Verizon’s 3G network.
Maybe that is why FaceTime was first created, with the video and marketing name later be attributed.
Maybe that one reason why Jobs said FaceTime over the carrier’s network wouldn’t come until 2011.



Mine is a landline once it gets to the other side of their towers.

On that last point...you might want to check your facts because I believe you are wrong (Hint: you are wrong). Haven't you been corrected on this in the past?

Of course, this is all possible. I admit I didn't think of that before.

Given that Austria is the size of the average Texan's BBQ, it is not that expensive for a phone company to cover it. How much does your phone company charge you to include France, Germany, Spain, Holland, Portugal etc.?

I suspect at first they will have a hard time just filing orders for people who don't need any extra incentives. Hopefully with time there will be some competition between ATT & Verizon once the low hanging fruit has be harvested.

Not until I read your post did the idea pop into my head.

That's why these discussions are good.

Which makes the idea of Visual Voicemail as a paid service on the Verizon iPhone a little hard to fathom.

I hope the Verizon iPhone happens so then I can read all the complaints about Verizon's network for a change instead of AT&T's network. The complaining has already begun and yet the Verizon iPhone is still a rumor. This weill be entertaining to say the least. CAN'T WAIT!

We don't know if that's true yet either.

First of all VVM sucks, and just get Google Voice if you want it free.

It is called an unlocked, jail-broken iPhone. I am happily using one on T-Mobile where I will remain. I do not have a data plan as Wi-FI is all around me.

For what it is worth, Verizon may be offering unlimited data, but 1) it will be short lived, and 2) it is significantly slower then AT&Ts.

I honestly do not get the excitement of Verizon. First, customer service if horrible. Second, it is worst then AT&T in trying to rob you of money up to an including charging erroneous charges. Third, you can only use data or voice, but not both at the same time. You know how may times when I was on AT&T where I was talking to somebody and then reverted to going on the Internet to look something up while talking? I still do this, but as I said previous I currently on have WI-Fi.

I am no AT&T fan, but out of AT&T and Verizon, I'd go with AT&T any day.

I love how disappointed people are about the plans and how they might relate to the iPhone when nothing's been officially announced yet. Brilliant.

I expect two things to be non-issues post-announcement: visual voicemail and Exchange (though that's a non-issue now, it's just misunderstood as is)

I wouldn't be shocked if Verizon actually launched the iPhone with simultaneous voice and data support. Verizon went on record that they were working on it last fall while Brad Shewmake of the CDMA Development Group said this: "Now, they're working to overcome it. A solution that will allow CDMA networks to carry voice and data simultaneously will become commercially available in the first half of next year, said Brad Shewmake, spokesman for the CDMA Development Group, an industry organization."

Read the article at http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...333071694.html

Respectfully, that's pretty much 75% the fun of having an iPhone/smartphone - what'd be the point? I guess you'd just have a phone that could play games on and view your synced music/photos on...Even your GPS would be near-useless unless you were on Wi-Fi.

If you're not going to use those features, it's not worth it for Apple to build a phone for you! No really - the price to build an iPhone is much greater than its retail price so it must be subsidized by data subscriptions. If you don't sign up for these, Apple would lose money

As someone who works for VZW, if this is true, I welcome the iPhone for the extra customers it brings. Now, further on , I would like to give my .02 cents worth with some facts and opinions regarding some of the posts I have read on here over the past year or more:

1: I wanted the iPhone badly. It has a nice user interface.... it is polished....a crazy app selection. However, it has been surpassed in features and hardware by other manufactureres. The Moto Bionic for example. I seriously doubt Apple has done anything more with the iPhone than put a CDMA chipset in it to get it to market. I would look for the next version to " Wow! " everyone again.

2: No, you can not hack it to make it work on Sprint. At least not easily. It is a CDMA phone, therefor, the unique identifier number that allows that device to work on a CDMA network is hardcoded into the device. It is what used to be known as an ESN number, but, is now a new MEID number. You can not just call up Sprint and say " Please activate this MEID ".

If it is not in their database, it comes back as "dead/unknown equipment". Maybe if the MEID were hacked and changed to a number off a Sprint device MEID?? Even then, I would suspect certain data features would not work.

3: Apple really needs to come up with iTunes lite for the PC. I dont use a Mac solely because I do alot of PC gaming. Nothing against them, they just do not fill my needs. I have an AMD overclocked quad core with 8 GB of RAM. iTunes bogs me down. I understand I have over 500 GB of music, but, I run striped drives so information retrieval is extremely quick on my PC..... until iTunes is involved. I have used other media centers and am able to retrieve this quickly, so I have isolated it to iTunes.

4: Who is better.... ATT or VZW? Of course I am going to say VZW.....as I said....I work for them. Overall, I honestly believe we have the best coverage. I understand and acknowledge the fact in some places coverage is equal and there are parts that ATT covers better.

Simultaneous voice and Data? I can not answer this as I have talked to CDMA techs that said it is possible and others that have said it is not.

GSM/UMTS data faster than CDMA Rev A? Statistically from what I have seen, yes, however, I live in a major area in the Midwest. I have seen my VZW phone pull the same sites faster than the GSM equivalent.....again, this is just in my market. In the same market.....again, a major market, ATT coverage is not good....and it should be.

Global roaming? CDMA was taken on by the biggest tech based countries in the world ( Asia, Japan, Korea, etc. ) so obviously, there is something to CDMA. I do not wish to disclose what I do as it could easily lead back to me, but, I can say, the amount of customers that travel to GSM areas is a very small percentage. Generally business based. Not saying that makes it unimportant....but, it is not as big a deal as everyone makes it out to be. VZW has seen this as an area of opportunity, therefor, they have introduced dual technology phones to eliminate this being a concern.

5: Was VZW originally offered the iPhone before anyone else ? I do not know the true answer to this. There have been so many rumors on this, almost as many as the Verizon iPhone is coming rumors, that I can not make heads or tails of it.

6: Will we have to pay for VVM? Don't know yet. If this current rumor comes to fruition, we will have to wait and see.

7: Why Apple.....why VZW...and why now? Well, honestly, Apple has lost some sales to the Android OS. You can deny it all you want, however, it is true. While Apple may be leading in the OS market now, they wont be in the future if they stay with just 1 US carrier. Up to a year ago, Apple could call all the shots they wanted and get away with it. VZW on the other hand, has done well and still grew its customer base without the iPhone (Apple has done just fine on its own, too). This is due to aquisitions and crazy BOGO offers on Androids and Blackberries.

The current trend of going to VZW and supposedly giving in to some VZW demands is the Android OS fault. Given enough time, Android OS will win. It is inevitable. It is a free OS, distributed across multple carriers and multiple manufacturers. This means the cost can be subsidized more greatly and BOGO free promos can be tossed out left and right to get new customers on board. You can say the Android is winning solely based on all these crazy BOGO offers and multiple manufacturers and claim because of this, you are not comparing Apples to Apples and defend Apple all you want, but, the fact remains, they are still gaining enormous ground. In this case, the ends is justified through the means.

You can scream fragmented OS all you want regarding Android. As I have 2 friends who build apps for Android, their input is this: The core of the OS is still the same no matter what GUI is placed on the phone. Anytime they have had a customer complain their app did not work on version 2.2 with one model ,but, it works on their friends with 2.2 on a different model, is due to the user having the issues has rooted and modded their phone ( dumping a piece of software that took something else with it ) or has had some sort of homebrew stuff ( non approved app ) going on.

8: Will VZW pay my termination fee with ATT to get me as a customer with their iPhone? I doubt it. This is something all the carriers did up to about 5 years ago. The only time I have known VZW to do this in recent times is to take over a major company contract with many, many lines.

9: How long will it take to jaibreak the VZW iPhone? Probably not long at all. Even though it is a CDMA iPhone, its core OS is still the same. The only thing that would have to be changed is the manner in which the OS talks to the chipset.....not the entire OS itself. I think the issue that will cause the biggest delay is waiting for someone who does program the jailbreaking procedure to get their hands on it. I wouldn't be a bit surpised if the newest jailbreak software were to work immediately assuming the VZW iPhone uses OS 4.2.

10: Can I get it without the data package. Sorry. If VZW is going to subsidize the cost of the phone, I can guarantee you 100% you will need a data package. They are in business to make money.....not lose or break even. Any smartphone orignally launched after mid-November of 2009 has to have a data package. It makes no difference if you bought it at full retail, got it off eBay, traded your dog for it, etc.

11: Will it be LTE? I don't know for sure. We will have to wait and see. I am guessing " No", and thinking the next version will be. I do not look for the next version to be released in the summer. I wouldn't be surprised if SJ would release this in the fall/winter and here is why: It keeps you in the limelight more often. You release a GSM based iPhone in the summer.....then the CDMA/LTE counterpart in the winter. That is 2 release parties with press versus 1. SJ is a marketing genius. He even makes Gene Simmons look like a beginner. Once LTE is standardized a few years down the road, I would look for them to going back to 1 release a year.

As I said, this is a mix of some facts with my own personal opinions. I truly hope we get the iPhone and this is not just another rumor as it would obviously grant my company more customers, but, would also get Apple more customers. - Twiztd

Nice objective posting, TwiztdWun. Welcome to the forum.

I got a question, can I buy Verizon data alone (or with the $40 voice plan) for $30+ tethering at another $30, or do I need unlimited voice to get unlimited data?

Sadly, all the new VZ customers who have been waiting for the iPhone, will think it's the hardware that is so slow on downloads! I use a VZ wireless card and it is painfully slow on my macbook pro ompared to the download of my iPhone! My download speed of the VZ card sits around .3 to .4 mbs anywhere I go. Comparitively on my iPhone, I get anywhere from 1 mbps to 5 mbps on average.

Save yourself $60/month.

http://intelliborn.com/mywi.html

It already exists. The iPhone's OS has a "Visual Voicemail is not available mode." Most AT&T customers will never experience it, but if you roam on GSM and you turn-off data roaming in the Settings app, you will enter the "Visual Voicemail is not available mode." The phone will let you dial AT&T's normal voicemail service and prompt you to enter your voicemail password.

I finally checked my data usage on my iPhone over the last 6 months a while ago, and realized that I could go from Unlimited ($30) to 200MB ($15). I check all sorts of things on my iPhone, but usually it's just to see what actress was in some movie on IMDB, or something like that.

Got rid of the 200 Texts/month, too, since the main person I used to text I no longer talk to.

So, I've saved $20/month.

But the thing is, I don't use my phone to tether or MyFi or whatever. I spend a lot more time in front of either my iMac or my MacBook. So, at least for now, it was a good move for me.

Excuse me for not speaking authoratatively: Verizon does NOT charge an extra $15 for access to exchange servers. There's really no way they could even do this, short of modifying the mail app that comes with iOS or blocking the ports that Exchange uses. This has been discussed to death on the internet and is misinformation. Plain and simple. Happy now?

And if you don't believe me... google it yourself

I think that the iPhone on Verizon will be very successful just because of the sheer amount of Verizon subscribers. Out of 95 million people obviously quite a few will want it.

As for whether the Verizon iPhone will have the same features as the ATT iPhone is yet to be seen. I really doubt that Verizon will charge for visual voicemail. That seems like a feature that Apple would demand to be free. I'm skeptical about Verizon retooling its entire network to allow for simultaneous data and voice, but it's not outside the realm of possibility.

There's no way this will ship with LTE though. That will be saved for the summer upgrade if not a later date. Verizon will sell a boat load of these. I think there's a huge pent up demand that is being greatly underestimated. It will be very interesting to see how this whole situation pans out.

Nice post Twiztd.... although the "elephant in the china shop" is what's going to happen re: the Oracle vs. Google IP lawsuit.

Either
a) Oracle will win and expect royalties, which Google will pay itself up to a certain amount, or if exorbitant, need to start licensing Android. I would expect Microsoft to put their objections to anything that didn't include licensing, since they're the ones at the disadvantage here if continued to be handed out for free.
Or
b) as some expect, Google will buy Java outright and own it. More info/ideas and guesses at how much it might cost Google: The-Oracle-Lawsuit-Will-End-with-Google-Owning-Java

This will determine the future of Android and carrier/phone prices more than anything else. It will definitely be interesting to watch.

Muah ha ha I expect the unlimited data to go away in a few days after launch, their network is going to get CRUSHED.

How about you just get a normal damn phone to make calls and and iPod Touch so you can keep all your games and porn with you.

When will you realize to just give up on something that can't legally or easily be done instead of bitching and moaning on a damn forum.

You can't have an iphone without a data plan (legally) end of story. Now go pound sand somewhere else.