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Verizon iPhone to attract 9 to 12 million new US users for Apple - Page 2

post #41 of 71
Too many variables here to predict how many Verizon IPhones will be sold. One of the main factors will be if multiple-tasking is available on CDMA another will be s
Special pricing plans etc. Hopefully once the guidelines are set .....the Customer WILL Benefit
post #42 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSHMAN4 View Post

Too many variables here to predict how many Verizon IPhones will be sold. One of the main factors will be if multiple-tasking is available on CDMA another will be s
Special pricing plans etc. Hopefully once the guidelines are set .....the Customer WILL Benefit

As many have said above, it is inconceivable that SJ would allow the iPhone out with less abilities than it has on every other provider. The is no way in hell a lesser iPhone would be released. I am on record with my neck out I know.
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post #43 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

As many have said above, it is inconceivable that SJ would allow the iPhone out with less abilities than it has on every other provider. The is no way in hell a lesser iPhone would be released. I am on record with my neck out I know.

I have to agree with you that SJ would match the ATT version. However lets see the pricing plans the Data limitations if there are any and then we can figure out a more realistic number of IPHONES will be sold.
post #44 of 71
I betting Verizon iphone is going to be... white. They have been stockpiling it for months just for the Verizon launch.
post #45 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

As many have said above, it is inconceivable that SJ would allow the iPhone out with less abilities than it has on every other provider. The is no way in hell a lesser iPhone would be released. I am on record with my neck out I know.

While I agree with every fiber of my being and in no way do I believe otherwise, remember that Apple has picked up our hopes, dangled them off of the top of the Burj Dubai, and then simply had Mount Everest dropped on the whole building in the past, so there's room for surprise.

Originally posted by Marvin

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #46 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

I betting Verizon iphone is going to be... white. They have been stockpiling it for months just for the Verizon launch.

NasserAE is in agreement with you. He mentioned this probably back in September when the white iPhone 4s were delayed yet again, so he gets if the most brownie points is you two are right.


I’m talking the opposite position. My reasoning is twofold…
  1. Apple did not expect the white iPhone 4 to have manufacturing issues. When you consider how long ago a deal with Verizon would have been inked and when they stated the white iPhone wasn’t going to arrive until next year the timelines just don’t jive for me.
  2. Apple’s best move isn’t to take sides with a carrier. Sure, they had the AT&T contract first, but with multiple carriers under one nation they need not to favour one over the other. A white iPhone 4 would indicate otherwise, IMO.
Now I won’t ignore the fact that Apple stated the white iPhone 4 won’t come until next Spring which is the season before new iPhones are released, that there seem to be plenty of authentic looking white iPhone kits coming of China, that Apple could use this as a way to push the aging iPhone 4 on Verizon a little easier, and that contracts can be altered at any time and Verizon or Apple could have convinced the other to make this happen… but I’m playing my bet against it.
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post #47 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Apples best move is to take sides with a carrier. Sure, they had the AT&T contract first, but with multiple carriers under one nation they need not to favour one over the other. A white iPhone 4 would indicate otherwise, IMO.

Agreed. Apple wants to be neutral. If Verizon gets a white iPhone, so will ATT. Just the same as I believe that both carriers get iPhone 5 this summer.

Apple is probably already doing the ground work to add Sprint and T-Mobile next year.
post #48 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

You're high if you think Verizon's service is a leap forward. I'm getting rid of it.

That they are 5 times bigger the at&t's 3g service? That they already launched 4gLTE in many cities which will be the global adoption over the next several years. That they have the highest customer satisfaction rate since being a company, Is that backwards? I bad?
post #49 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by theobold View Post

That they are 5 times bigger the at&t's 3g service? That they already launched 4gLTE in many cities which will be the global adoption over the next several years. That they have the highest customer satisfaction rate since being a company, Is that backwards? I bad?

They had no choice but to have 3G if they wanted data. I dont think their data coverage area is any smaller than AT&Ts ever was and not all of that 3G data coverage was fast.

Those rural areas can have data speeds slower than AT&Ts 2G data. For instance, they were claim 3G data with CDMA2000s 1x designation with is under 100kbps in the real world. Thats faster than GPRS but slower than EDGE.

See how using thee generational markets are pointless across disparate networks?


Verizon also had no choice but to jump onto LTE. EV-DO was pointless to keep investing in even though they could have increased the speeds with Rev. B. HS*PA on the other hand, still 3G, has a maximum download rate of 84.4Mbps and upload rate of 21.7Mbps.

These arent even close to being ready for the real world. The HW that can handle that isnt even available for purchase. By that same token LTE is barely off the ground and the phones we saw at CES that will be getting LTE are not small and will not be power efficient. Just look at Sprints HTC EVO 4G. Its the nature of this technology.

I dont expect the iPhone to support LTE until at least 2012 at the earliest.


Now none of that is to belittle Verizons benefits. CDMA and CDMA2000 do have plenty of benefits. For instance, GSM cant do a soft handoff while CDMA can. CDMA has a good voice algorithm and GSM does not. Note, by GSM I mean 2G', and not 3G.

They also have the benefit of having towers and radio frequencies that make it better for many users. This issue will drop significantly as the nation solidifies on 700MHz and LTE.

The other side of that is how they used to do their rates, their control over their devices, their customer service, their lack of simultaneous voice and data, et al. These could all be a thing of the past, but well have to wait until Tuesday to see assuming the rumours are correct.


PS: Im perfectly okay with Verizon calling LTE 4G, just as I was perfectly okay with them calling CDMA2000 1x 3G even though it was often slower data speeds than AT&Ts EDGE 2G. There is nothing wrong with companies making their own generational designations but its good to be aware of what exactly is being designated with these marketing terms.
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post #50 of 71
IF THEY DONT, will Appleinder dump the fool named DED? T

his guys is trashing your name with his fanboy crap. I can pick out his trash just by reading the title of the blog post.
post #51 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Not wishing to sound like I am repeating myself but the losses from AT&T could be significant if all the FiOS users are offered a special bundle deal. I am not convinced I will change but I will take a look.

FiOS accounts for about 1% of Verizon's customer base.
post #52 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by theobold View Post

That they are 5 times bigger the at&t's 3g service? That they already launched 4gLTE in many cities which will be the global adoption over the next several years. That they have the highest customer satisfaction rate since being a company, Is that backwards? I bad?

Sorry, but having worked at AT&T Wireless, seen the back end of Voicestream/T-Mobile and worked with enough colleagues who worked on Verizon's back end, you're delusional.

One of the worst aspects of Verizon's service is their Customer Service and criminal billing charges they have repeatedly admitted to in civil courts.

I've had to deal with 5 fraudulent charges on my account over the past 5 years that have tried to screw me out of a few hundred dollars and the best part was their spurious data plan charges on a phone that doesn't have a data plan.

I've been hording a 2002 Audiovox with them.

I look forward to shutting it off next month and moving to AT&T. Having rollover minutes on an account I haven't used it's base minutes once in 7+ years will garner me with a lot of minutes to use where it counts--for consulting.

No, Verizon is not already 4G LTE.

http://mashable.com/2010/12/01/verizon-lte-dec-5/

Quote:
Verizon Wireless confirmed this morning that its 4G network would launch on Sunday, December 5. Long Term Evolution (LTE) service will be available in 38 cities and 60 airports immediately upon its launch.

The network will support 5 12 Mbps download speeds and uploads of 2 5 Mbps. These speeds are about the same as many home broadband connections in the U.S., which makes it extremely fast by mobile standards. Its not quite the speed of lighting from the commercial, but it is about 10 times faster than Verizons existing 3G network.

Interestingly, Verizon isnt launching its 4G service with any mobile handsets. The first device to support Verizons LTE network will be the LG VL600 USB modem, with the Pantech UML290 following soon. Both devices will sell for $100 after a $50 rebate and a two-year contract.

Verizon subscribers will be able to select from two 4G LTE mobile broadband plans: $50 per month for 5 GB of data or $80 for 10 GB.

While there is no cap on how much bandwidth one can consume, we are concerned that there is no unlimited plan available. Overages will cost $10 per GB in both of Verizons LTE plans. Despite its impressive speeds, the cost of these packages means that an avid Internet user would be unable to switch to LTE as a primary source of broadband. This also means that were not yet likely to see a cord-cutting revolution like the one that occurred when people switched from landlines to cellphones.

Verizons initial LTE offering is both ambitious and aggressive. Its launch in 38 cities will immediately make it the largest provider of 4G wireless in the U.S. The carrier has stated that it will gradually expand its 4G footprint and hopes to have completed expansion by the end of 2013.

Color me unimpressed. Those aren't 4G LTE bandwidth markers.
post #53 of 71
It's so weird, all the talk about bad ATT service. I have never had a problem. In the years that I've owned an iPhone (I have a 3GS now, but got a 1st gen originally), I've had a total of one dropped call.

Also, with ATT family pack, and U-Verse, and ATT Internet, it would take a lot for me to consider changing over.
post #54 of 71
I sure hope this CDMA phone is available in Canada too. Over 95% of this country has no cell service at all unless your phone is CDMA. The major carriers never bothered to finish their GSM rollout, and their maps still show 3G service in places that have none.
post #55 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post

I'm sorry but I've never experienced a problem with ATT's service here in NYC. The only place my phone doesn't work is at work and on the subway and in both places my MiFi card doesn't work either. Also, when I go to Texas Verizon's service stink there. I used to live in an apartment where the only phones that worked were ATT phones. So I think the negative stuff about ATT is mostly hype.

AT&T's problems are most certainly NOT hype, at least in my part of the country. Luckily, the city we live in here in Indiana has 3G, and decent speeds to, but drive 20 minutes in any direction and I'm lucky to have 1-2 bars of EDGE. The Midwest is mostly EDGE with AT&T, while Verizon has 3G almost everywhere, even between towns and in the smaller towns. I know that's mostly because they bought Alltel, but I don't care how they did it, just that they have unquestionably better service where I live, and I think that's the most important thing for anybody.
post #56 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

I sure hope this CDMA phone is available in Canada too. Over 95% of this country has no cell service at all unless your phone is CDMA. The major carriers never bothered to finish their GSM rollout, and their maps still show 3G service in places that have none.

Who would carry it?
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post #57 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

FiOS accounts for about 1% of Verizon's customer base.

Wow, didn't know that. I assumed it was far higher. In which case it won't make much difference but as one of those with FiOS and iPhones I am still interested to see if there is some special deal in the pipe line. I know Verizon already have a cool iPad app for controlling FiOS so hopefully some integration may occur on the accounting side to my advantage. However, as said previously I have not had any problems with AT&T and I certainly want the same or better service if I were to switch. We are over two years with AT&T on all iPhones so free to decide. Thanks for the info though.
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post #58 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

IF THEY DONT, will Appleinder dump the fool named DED? T

his guys is trashing your name with his fanboy crap. I can pick out his trash just by reading the title of the blog post.

Hey. I realize that this seems to be a heated topic for some, and while I have no knowledge of the history behind this (apparently he's a writer from some other site who has come here?), knowledge thereof is meaningless as it isn't the topic of the thread.

I'm not saying that your position in this argument is wrong, I'm saying that it's pointless and shouldn't have been brought up here.

I also proffer a solution: if you don't like his material, do not read it, do not comment on it, and do not spam the forum with complaints about it out of context.

Thanks.

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post #59 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post

AT&T's problems are most certainly NOT hype, at least in my part of the country. Luckily, the city we live in here in Indiana has 3G, and decent speeds to, but drive 20 minutes in any direction and I'm lucky to have 1-2 bars of EDGE. The Midwest is mostly EDGE with AT&T, while Verizon has 3G almost everywhere, even between towns and in the smaller towns. I know that's mostly because they bought Alltel, but I don't care how they did it, just that they have unquestionably better service where I live, and I think that's the most important thing for anybody.

They are improving things slowly. Here in Florida we had Keys (islands) with no service and where we summer in NH whole areas especially in mountain areas where there was zero signal of any kind yet another cell phone on another carrier had a strong one. Now, a few years later, we can use AT&T in most of those places although northern NH is still flakey.
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post #60 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Who would carry it?

All of the major carriers other than Rogers all have the majority of their coverage areas as CDMA only.
post #61 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

I sure hope this CDMA phone is available in Canada too. Over 95% of this country has no cell service at all unless your phone is CDMA. The major carriers never bothered to finish their GSM rollout, and their maps still show 3G service in places that have none.

Where do you live? That stat is entirely made up. 95% with no service unless your phone is CDMA? BS.

Maybe if you're in Manitoba or Saskatchewan, it bites. Elsewhere though, 3G service is well entrenched and pretty decent. I daresay that most of Canada's population probably has better service than what our southern neighbours get....though we pay through we routinely resort to sacrificing limbs and infants to pay our mobile bills.
post #62 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash View Post

You should read the boards more. I have seen estimates of up to 6 million subscribers that Verizon would take from AT&T. We'll see if it will be that high, but that is about a 3rd of AT&T's current iPhone user base. That will hurt.

PS - AT&T sucks in more places than NY and San Fran. Try Phoenix.

I'm betting it won't be that many. Because not all of those folks will be at the end of contract or have th cash to ETF out. But in the end they could be okay, because they are probably only a third of the folks in question. So two thirds go and it reduces the overload that is what makes service suck. Service might not be great but it should better than totally sucks


Quote:
Originally Posted by jmmx View Post

The really big hit to Android will come when V stops the BOGO program for their phones. I have heard that it was funded by the carriers and not by the manufacturers. If this is so, they no longer have any motivation to keep it up. Android could possibly see a 50% drop in sales (given "leavers" and no more bogos) Unless, of course, ATT picks up the program.

I wonder if V will BOGO the iPhone? Wouldn't that be something!

Unlikely. The iPhone is too good of a contract lure not to use it

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post #63 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

All of the major carriers other than Rogers all have the majority of their coverage areas as CDMA only.

1) That automatically makes your assertion of 95% of the country not being covered without CDMA wrong.

2) Bellus will get to the boonies where you live eventually. Just because they haven't reached you doesn't mean that they cut short their 3G network deployment.

In any event, none of the networks in Canada have any interest in putting a halo device like the iPhone on a slower network. That would be bass ackwards. All three major networks are moving towards LTE. As are some of the new entrants. So why would Bellus want to offer two versions of the same phone? They sooner they can get customers migrated to 3G, the faster they can shut down their CDMA networks.
post #64 of 71
@Bsenka

Rogers alone claims to cover 88% of the population with HSPA.

http://www.rogers.com/web/content/wireless_network

Now, I'm no fan of Big Red but it's hard to argue with their 3G coverage.

And even Bell's not bad.

http://support.bell.ca/en-on/Mobilit...rage_in_Canada

Where do you live that you say they claim to have coverage but they don't? If that's the case you might want to consider filing a complaint:

http://www.ccts-cprst.ca/

I am sure the authorities would love to take on misleading claims from Big Blue.
post #65 of 71
If anything I was being conservative by saying 95%. Just because they draw it on a map doesn't mean it's really there.

People who think Rogers' signal is acceptable must not get out of downtown Toronto much. If you do any traveling at all, you'd know that there are very few places that they have any signal at all. My iPad data plan is completely useless, because even when I'm right in a clean coverage zone, there's no signal more than half the time. It's about 40% in the city, and literally 0% five minutes outside of it.

Telus absolutely did flat out stop their deployment of HSPA. I'm a Telus phone customer right now, and when asked when they are going to build out into manitoba, they told be flat out that they have no plans. They don't even offer any 3G phones here because they will not work. Bell is worse, they pulled out of Manitoba entirely years ago.

It's not just in Manitoba. I travel from here to northern BC regularly to visit my parents. There is no Rogers signal pretty much anywhere outside of the large city centres, but CDMA is everywhere.

I'm not a fan of CDMA because I like it. Yes, I want SIM cards, and international roaming, and concurrent voice and data. But more than that I want to get a signal. I can get a CDMA signal almost anywhere, and a 3G signal almost nowhere.
post #66 of 71
..and yeah, I guess you could call it "making it up". 95% is an estimate based on all the places and times I can't get a GSM signal.
post #67 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSHMAN4 View Post

Too many variables here to predict how many Verizon IPhones will be sold. One of the main factors will be if multiple-tasking is available on CDMA

Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

As many have said above, it is inconceivable that SJ would allow the iPhone out with less abilities than it has on every other provider. The is no way in hell a lesser iPhone would be released. I am on record with my neck out I know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSHMAN4 View Post

I have to agree with you that SJ would match the ATT version.

I've been expecting this to be a hotter sub-topic than it has been. Isn't the limitation on simultaneous voice+data intrinsic to VZW's network and effectively out of Apple's control until full 4G on VZ?

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post #68 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpics View Post

I've been expecting this to be a hotter sub-topic than it has been. Isn't the limitation on simultaneous voice+data intrinsic to VZW's network and effectively out of Apple's control until full 4G on VZ?

VoRA, I believe. They've been testing it since May.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #69 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpics View Post

I've been expecting this to be a hotter sub-topic than it has been. Isn't the limitation on simultaneous voice+data intrinsic to VZW's network and effectively out of Apple's control until full 4G on VZ?

It was discussed at length on yesterday's AI article. It's technically possible through any number of VoIP services over EV-DO Rev. A '3G'. They could use Qualcomm's QChat, which uses similar protocols as FaceTime which in itself contains VoIP, or something else entirely. What would need to be done would require both the carrier and vendor to work together.

The benefits are clear and this could be exclusive to Apple on Verizon forr a set duration. The negatives are less clear, but they potentially worse voice QoS and algorithms than CDMA, and less talk time than using CDMA for voice since it would all be over the more power hungry and faster '3G' network.

None of these are a deal breaker, bur without knowing Apple's cruel desire to keep the handsets as much the same as possible from a user's perspective, what the cost would be to implement, and overall quality it'll be speculation until we get official word.
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post #70 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

One of the worst aspects of Verizon's service is their Customer Service and criminal billing charges they have repeatedly admitted to in civil courts.

I've had to deal with 5 fraudulent charges on my account over the past 5 years that have tried to screw me out of a few hundred dollars and the best part was their spurious data plan charges on a phone that doesn't have a data plan.

I moved from Verizon to ATT several years ago due to repeated billing mistakes and the enormous effort it took to get them sorted out.
post #71 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by poke View Post

The iPhone's poor service on AT&T reached the level of pop culture in the US, being routinely featured on SNL and late night talk shows. It was also a major part of Verizon's campaign against the iPhone. This is now coming to an end (with no less than Verizon itself making the announcement). That's a big deal in terms of public perception.

Since there's no way any of the so-called advantages of Android touted by Android fans (openness, customization, etc) have played any significant part of Androids growth, it's likely most Android customers purchased Android phones because they wanted something iPhone-like but did not want to switch carriers. Now the only thing separating the iPhone and Android phones is cost.

I also find it unlikely that Motorola, HTC, et al, have significant brand name recognition or customer loyalty. ... No doubt a great many Android purchases were stopgap measures by people who are waiting for the iPhone on Verizon. If it's not too difficult for them to switch, I think many of them will do so.

"Android Awareness" may be higher than some think. And buzz around certain Android models by name - the name of the phone, not so much the phone maker - exists as well.

Many of my friends are showing up with their new Androids - often small screen, plasticky ones just excited they've entered "the smart phone generation." Others, slightly geekier tout that they have an EVO or Hero or Droid or one of the Samsung Galaxy variants. But few if any of those have mentioned any specific Android apps or a better UI experience or not wanting to be locked into Apple's "closed ecosystem, nor have any expressed concern on the potential non- or slow upgradeability of their installed Android version. This long-time artifact of being a PC user (OS upgrades) hasn't yet penetrated the average phone user's noggin.

There DOES seem to be one essential app which is driving smart phone adoption in general among all of these. facebook.

Quote:
Originally Posted by penchanted View Post

I agree that the expected churn from ATT to Verizon is probably overstated. However, I am not so sure that there will be a lot of migration from Sprint and T-Mobile - so many of their customers are with them specifically because of their lower plan prices. I think most the Verizon iPhone sales will come from inside Verizon's existing customer base.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

I can only speak to the DC area, but here, Verizon's rep is so good (caused in large part I think by years of underground subway exclusivity) that it's just about as easy to find a Verizon user waiting out Apple as it is to find an actual iPhone user even still today.

I've def been a "waiter" - and a "trickler" - part of the long end of the tail that's seen no need to jump since there are few occasions when I'm more than a few minutes away from PC/Internet access, so getting by with phone, TXT and TV still meets my needs.

This large group will be subsumed by inertia and osmosis once there are few NON-smart phones. And most will stick with their current carriers since the capabilities aren't "mission critical" to our lives or jobs. And less valuable to various interested parties since many will be minimal uptakers of apps or other optional "value"-adds.

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