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Verizon confident in ability to support new iPhone users

post #1 of 33
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Verizon's network is said to be more than capable of handling an influx of millions of iPhone users, even when offering them unlimited data service.

According to a report by the Wall Street Journal, a source "familiar with the matter" has said that the largest US carrier "is confident enough in its network that it will offer unlimited data-use plans when it starts selling the iPhone around the end of this month."

That confidence, both reportedly on the part of Verizon and on the Journal writers who carried the story, suggest that Verizon itself is promoting the story in order to woo smartphone users to its network and its new iPhone.

Verizon's US 3G

Verizon was the first major US carrier to offer 3G service nation wide, and therefore has the most mature 3G buildout covering the widest area. However, Verizon used Qualcomm's CDMA EvDo to deliver its 3G service, a technology which is now growing long in the tooth without any upgrades in the pipeline. Qualcomm abandoned the future of EvDo's 3G to join the rest of the industry in building globally-compatible 4G network technologies.

AT&T grew from the merger of a series of US GSM providers, and by the time it launched the iPhone under its then-new AT&T brand in 2007, it was just beginning to roll out its own 3G service. That network immaturity left Apple to rely upon AT&T's existing, but slower EDGE network for the original iPhone.

AT&T's 3G network is built using UMTS technology from the same 3GPP standards body that managed GSM, EDGE, and UMTS and which is now laying out the future mobile networks with HSPA+ and LTE.

Since 2008, Apple's iPhone 3G, 3GS and 4 all use UMTS for 3G, allowing them to work on both AT&T and most other mobile networks around the world, but necessitating a different iPhone 4 model in order to work on Verizon's existing network.

Verizon focuses on 3G quality

Given the widespread complaints AT&T users have made regarding its 3G service coverage, Verizon hopes to market its unique iPhone 4 model as being backed by a better network. It will, however, be slower than the best spots on AT&T's existing network, which can provide real world data downloads at speeds of 3.5 to 5 Mbps.

Verizon's CDMA EvDo is closer to 1Mbps, but reliable 1Mbps service is far better than an unreliable, unavailable, or oversaturated link that may be capable of faster speeds only in theory, while in practice it doesn't work at all.

By seeding stories about the quality of its coverage and the likelihood of offering unlimited use data contracts with its new iPhone, it appears Verizon wants to head off any tactics by AT&T to damper its iPhone launch tomorrow. AT&T has already started promoting the idea that its network is much faster, suggesting that Verizon only offers users the "slow lane."



AT&T and Verizon offer slow lane updates

The existing iPhone 4 is already compatible with UMTS HSDPA-enhanced networks offering up to 7.2Mbps downloads and HSUPA service that support 5.2Mbps uploads, although US networks don't currently take full advantage of that capability, something Apple's chief executive Steve Jobs admitted on stage when he introduced the new phone last summer.

AT&T is clearly suggesting that by delivering a CDMA EvDo version for Verizon, Apple is taking a step backwards, even as AT&T works to roll out new, faster HSPA+ service in more markets that can take full advantage of iPhone 4's capabilities.

At CES, Verizon heavily promoted its plans for modernizing its mobile data service, which involve adding an LTE data overlay to its existing EvDo network. That new level of data service isn't broadly available yet, and the phones promised to work with LTE for faster data won't ship until the middle of this year. That leaves Verizon with no option apart from selling a CDMA version of iPhone 4.

However, Verizon has been promising easy upgrades to LTE across a variety of its current products. Additionally, spy photos purporting to be the modified iPhone 4 cases to used by Verizon's iPhone were depicted with SIM card slots. CDMA doesn't use SIM cards, but LTE does. That could indicate that Verizon's iPhone 4 may arrive with CDMA and a future option for taking advantage of the new LTE network for data in the future.

That may also explain why Verizon announced its LTE direction and related handsets first at CES, before addressing its new iPhone partnership at a later event. Verizon could be setting expectations to help deflect unflattering network speed comparisons by AT&T.

AT&T and Verizon war over iPhone users

Leaking confidence about its network to major new outlets could also help bolster Verizon's launch. The Journal report noted that "Verizon more than any other US carrier has built its reputation on its network quality, and any stumble in handling iPhone traffic will call into question Verizon's major selling point. On the other hand, if it does handle the iPhone well, then AT&T will have a harder time arguing it didn't mismanage its own network."

Verizon has been handling smartphone demand from an estimated 9 million Android phones, many paired with unlimited data plans, throughout last year. It also offers smartphone data tethering plans and PC dongle WWAN service, neither of which have generated public outcry regarding service availability, in contrast to AT&T's issues.

Verizon's rollout of LTE is expected to help iPhone users even if the iPhone itself isn't ultimately capable of being upgraded, because LTE will carry more of Verizon's network load, and the backhaul necessary to support LTE will also support the company's data service in general.

The report cited Anthony J. Melone, Verizon's chief technology officer, as saying, "we added enormous capacity to the network in one fell swoop [in building out LTE]. It is there waiting for us to grow into it. That will help me tremendously with my 3G network."

After Verizon's launch, AT&T will be left with two advantages: first, that it still offers a much faster network for iPhone 4 users in some markets, and second, that it can offer the cheaper iPhone 3GS, which will not be offered on Verizon. AT&T is now selling the 3GS for just $49 in hopes of attracting users on a budget. AT&T also notes that UMTS allows smartphones to access the data network while on a call, something Verizon's CDMA network does not support.

This summer, Apple will likely release iPhone 5 and iOS 5 with moderate, software-centric feature bumps more reminiscent to the jump from iPhone 3G to the 3GS, rather than a radical hardware-centric redesign of iPhone 4. That AT&T-centric launch may add support for the even faster HSPA+ network AT&T is currently rolling out in some markets. Apple is also likely to work toward making lower cost iPhone models it can sell in emerging countries.
post #2 of 33
I reckon if they announce tomorrow as everyone expects, we'll shortly see the real deal. With respect to network speeds, talk & simultaneous data and all the little digs they've put out for the last three & one half years, the proof will soon be out. It'll be time to look at the facts rather than speculate on the vapor. I am an Apple shareholder, so all this price run-up has been happily breathtaking!
post #3 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple_headlines View Post

I'm just hoping enough people leave AT&T so it can make it more reliable



I seriously had that thought as I was planning to jump ship ... maybe better to stay put
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post #4 of 33
Thats an interesting read, and for me highlights how little you can trust the advertising claims of both companies, and instead you need to rely upon the experiences of others.

Verizon are going to claim network coverage, AT&T network speed, and all in all the consumer has to take a guess as to what will work best.

I'd recommend AT&T over Verizon any day of the week, for people who live next door to me and work in the same office as me. For people who live and work elsewhere, it may be different!
post #5 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by martimus3060 View Post

I reckon if they announce tomorrow as everyone expects, we'll shortly see the real deal. With respect to network speeds, talk & simultaneous data and all the little digs they've put out for the last three & one half years, the proof will soon be out. It'll be time to look at the facts rather than speculate on the vapor. I am an Apple shareholder, so all this price run-up has been happily breathtaking!

Solipism promised 375 so I am holding him to it!
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post #6 of 33
I imagine the only way enough people will jump ship from AT&T to Verizon, for AT&T's network to improve significantly for the rest of us, is if there's some kind of mass media smack-down against AT&T. The general consumer can't be motivated enough to deal with the headache of migrating their family unless the TV makes them feel like it is important to do so.

But maybe in time...
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post #7 of 33
I think this puppy is going to be doing 375 by the time we are done with earning reports for this stock. It is making up for the missed up ticks! The Verizon story, iPad still a leader in tablet world even after all those wanna-be iPad from CES - iPad2 will just make the gap even wider.

People, please do buy up Apple, even at this price - You will not regret it!
post #8 of 33
Anyone using the word 'competition' in this thread will be flogged. The table shown in the article needs to be stamped with a DUOPOLY watermark.

Everyone, remain in a bent over position.
post #9 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post

I imagine the only way enough people will jump ship from AT&T to Verizon, for AT&T's network to improve significantly for the rest of us, is if there's some kind of mass media smack-down against AT&T. The general consumer can't be motivated enough to deal with the headache of migrating their family unless the TV makes them feel like it is important to do so.

But maybe in time...

For the most part general consumers are not tuned into tech news. But the iPhone on Verizon is an issue that breaks this rule. My dad, who knows nothing about technology, has asked me if the iPhone is coming to Verizon.

What people have no idea about is gsm vs. cdma, or download speeds vs. reliability, IMO people's perception is that AT&T has bad service that they have been hearing about since 2007 and that Verizon is much better.

In this case Perception will rule, and Verizon (and Apple) will win the day.

Who will win in the future will depend on services and price and of course general perception.
post #10 of 33
just curious, any ideas on how important about talk as simultaneous data? android phone has been on verizon for a while, anyone is hindered by it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by martimus3060 View Post

I reckon if they announce tomorrow as everyone expects, we'll shortly see the real deal. With respect to network speeds, talk & simultaneous data and all the little digs they've put out for the last three & one half years, the proof will soon be out. It'll be time to look at the facts rather than speculate on the vapor. I am an Apple shareholder, so all this price run-up has been happily breathtaking!
post #11 of 33
ipad2 will be incremental as apple does not have any other competitive players in the ring, so why bother to have a brand new ipad2? ipad3 should be a killer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by radster360 View Post

I think this puppy is going to be doing 375 by the time we are done with earning reports for this stock. It is making up for the missed up ticks! The Verizon story, iPad still a leader in tablet world even after all those wanna-be iPad from CES - iPad2 will just make the gap even wider.

People, please do buy up Apple, even at this price - You will not regret it!
post #12 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by anakin1992 View Post

ipad2 will be incremental as apple does not have any other competitive players in the ring, so why bother to have a brand new ipad2? ipad3 should be a killer.

Apple is smart and will not miss this opportunity to kill the potential competitors by holding off until next year with big updates.

While we already know or expect what iPad2 will be I believe they will put on a few more bells and whistles people didn't see coming to further their lead.

An example would be the big speaker (if it is true). IMO this will be great since the iPad is more of a shared device than an iphone or ipod.

Most of the public would not have expected this and will see it, along with whatever else is added, as an increased incentive to purchase now.
post #13 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

Anyone using the word 'competition' in this thread will be flogged. The table shown in the article needs to be stamped with a DUOPOLY watermark.

Everyone, remain in a bent over position.

Ahh, its just a coincidence.

But in fairness, I payed about the same amount for phone service (well roughly with long distance, taxes and stuff) for a regular o'l dial phone 25 years ago.
Now the cable companies-that is a royal rip-off! I get everything(HBO etc, internet etc)and pay about 165 a mounth. But its all junk programming!!!! Almost spend more time watching Twit!!!

Ramble, ramble, rant, rant, sorry.
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post #14 of 33
Uggg another DED freak show post.

Verizon can handle the load because the load is going to be a joke.

Sure some iPhone users will move to Verizon but at max maybe 5%? They will pick up new users those that waited for the iPhone to finally get on Verizon, but they will account what amount of Verizon users...1-2% at most.

Only stupid people would break an ATT contract to move an iPhone to Verizon, most will wait until they can do it for free. Apple waited to long to go to Verizon, and the people that tried to wait it out are now Android fans.
post #15 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by radster360 View Post

I think this puppy is going to be doing 375 by the time we are done with earning reports for this stock. It is making up for the missed up ticks! The Verizon story, iPad still a leader in tablet world even after all those wanna-be iPad from CES - iPad2 will just make the gap even wider.

People, please do buy up Apple, even at this price - You will not regret it!

Crazy talk.
post #16 of 33
I doubt Verizon will support new iPhone users without a few bumps. Having the DROID line up and the iPhone is gonna take some serious damage to Verizons network. First, the activation systems are gonna fail when the launch of the iPhone, and then as months go by, that's when you're gonna start hearing Verizons network problems.
post #17 of 33
I think this article pretty much sums up how interesting the next few months will be, but I think either way, iPhone users win in the end. More apps across the board, which will be awesome.

I am interested to see how things play out on Verizon. If things go well, AT&T looks even worse. If things go horribly wrong, things won't look good for the nation's most reliable network. But my prediction is everything will go just fine. Thing is, AT&T took the biggest hit back when the iPhone 3G came out. Verizon had plenty of time to build their network to handle smartphones so not to have the same trouble AT&T did. But, with condensed areas like NYC and San Fran, there still may be trouble for Verizon.

But hey, maybe with both carriers sharing the workload, it will be all good...
post #18 of 33
Uh-huh. You know, (the new) AT&T and O2-UK said much the same, once upon a time.

Fast forward: I jumped ship to 3 at the first opportunity, and all the buzz in American iPhone scene is "OOH! We can get away from the clogged up AT&T network! Rethink Possible? TRY NETWORK SWITCH POSSIBLE!"

I'm not saying Verizon are definitely wrong just that...You know...We've heard it all before.

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post #19 of 33
Will there be a Verizon iPad? If so will the older version be offered with the new CDMA radio or will Apple wait until the next generation of iPad comes out?

Do you think the iPad will come with both radios so that people can switch back and forth depending on which company gives the best deal? There is a lot more space within an iPad for such chips.
post #20 of 33
the battery life on a verizon iphone will be absolutely horrible.
post #21 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by reklss41 View Post

the battery life on a verizon iphone will be absolutely horrible.

And because you've provided zero arguments, evidence, or reasoning to back this statement, I believe it with every fiber of my being.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #22 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by reklss41 View Post

the battery life on a verizon iphone will be absolutely horrible.

I think you are confusing it with the PlayBook from RIM
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post #23 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by anakin1992 View Post

ipad2 will be incremental as apple does not have any other competitive players in the ring, so why bother to have a brand new ipad2? ipad3 should be a killer.

Oh don't say that, I was waiting for version 2 damn it!
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post #24 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

Will there be a Verizon iPad? If so will the older version be offered with the new CDMA radio or will Apple wait until the next generation of iPad comes out?

Do you think the iPad will come with both radios so that people can switch back and forth depending on which company gives the best deal? There is a lot more space within an iPad for such chips.

All good questions ...
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post #25 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple_headlines View Post

I'm just hoping enough people leave AT&T so it can make it more reliable

X2

But I had no problems in my area, the speed is great, I never had a dropped call besides one spot in town that is under the small hill - understandable. I hope at least 1/3 of the current iPhone owners go to Verizon's 20th Century EvDo technology so I can stay on GSM will less strain on the network.
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post #26 of 33
Don't think apple will make a lower end iPhone for the emerging markets considering they already offer a 49 dollar version of the phone. Demand for iPhone 4 has been strong in china, which means people there can find a way to get the phone and are ready to pay prices above msrp to get them.
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post #27 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

Crazy talk.

bettieblue - Let's revisit that end of this month! You will be eating your own words!
post #28 of 33
Where is the Verizon V logo to appear on the phone?
Is there an app for VCAst pre-installed?
post #29 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple_headlines View Post

I'm just hoping enough people leave AT&T so it can make it more reliable

No kidding. I see little incentive to switch, although interestingly Verizon offers slightly better tethering.

If AT&T was smart they would offer a lower tier data plan mainly for use with the 3GS - but I'm sure there are others who would switch to smart phones if they could ease into the data plans.

You think all the carriers would notice the surge in subscriptions with the iPad that AT&T has benefited from - with a large portion of subscribers probably keeping their sub going once started!

EDIT: Either way, Apple wins and wins big. The real looser isn't going to be AT&T but Android!
post #30 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

No kidding. I see little incentive to switch, although interestingly Verizon offers slightly better tethering.

If AT&T was smart they would offer a lower tier data plan mainly for use with the 3GS - but I'm sure there are others who would switch to smart phones if they could ease into the data plans.

What AT&T really needs to do is lower their voice plans, not the data plans. The data plans are reasonably charged, the voice plans are not. Have you guys noticed that at one time, $20 a month plans were standard, while $40 a month was considered expensive? And now they force you to buy a minimum $40 a month plan. They need to lower it to $30 a month with maybe 150-200 minutes to lure in the crowd that doesn't care about using their phone all that much. I'm betting a boatload of people will start switching from T-Mobile and Sprint if that were to happen!
post #31 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post

What AT&T really needs to do is lower their voice plans, not the data plans. The data plans are reasonably charged, the voice plans are not. Have you guys noticed that at one time, $20 a month plans were standard, while $40 a month was considered expensive? And now they force you to buy a minimum $40 a month plan. They need to lower it to $30 a month with maybe 150-200 minutes to lure in the crowd that doesn't care about using their phone all that much. I'm betting a boatload of people will start switching from T-Mobile and Sprint if that were to happen!

I agree. Many people (including on these forums) have made it clear that their Sprint or T-Mobile choice was influenced because of plan prices. I am not so sure they will be any more willing to move to Verizon than there were to ATT.
post #32 of 33
Quote:
It will, however, be slower than the best spots on AT&T's existing network, which can provide real world data downloads at speeds of 3.5 to 5 Mbps.

3.5Mbps to 5Mbps is the best?
That's only considered "good" on my T-Mobile.
I constantly get around 5.5Mbps to 6.5Mbps on the several best spots I've identified so far. My phone is not even an HSPA+ phone.
post #33 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple_headlines View Post

I'm just hoping enough people leave AT&T so it can make it more reliable

After I moved out of NYC, I have really good service for my iPhone. I have to go in there from time to time for work meetings, but I hope once a bunch of people jump ship to Verizon and ruin its network, my service will go from really good to excellent....or from sucky to really good in NYC.
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