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Verizon says it will also sell Apple's iPad with integrated CDMA

post #1 of 42
Thread Starter 
In addition to the new CDMA iPhone, Apple will also release a new iPad with a built-in CDMA radio to allow the touchscreen tablet to connect to Verizon's network, the carrier revealed on Tuesday.

In an interview with Bloomberg, Verizon Wireless Chief Financial Officer Francis Shammo reportedly said that his company will sell a new version of the iPad with an integrated CDMA radio. The current iPad with integrated radio is only compatible with AT&T's 3G wireless network in the U.S.

Verizon and Apple previously worked around the issue by bundling a MiFi 2200 Intelligent Mobile Hotspot router with the Wi-Fi-only iPad. The hardware bundle started at $629 for the 16GB model, the exact same price as the 3G-capable hardware with direct connectivity to AT&T's network.

While Shammo reportedly spilled the details on the forthcoming CDMA iPad, he declined to say when the hardware might become available. First released last April, the iPad is expected to be updated to a second-generation version in the very near future. The anticipated update is part of an aggressive strategy that would see Apple update the hardware in less than a year, partially to push its FaceTime video chat standard with a camera-equipped iPad.

Cases and mockups claiming to represent the second-generation iPad began to appear online in late December. They suggested that, in addition to forward and rear facing cameras, the next-generation device will also include a larger speaker on its back and a tweaked, slightly thinner design.

There have also been reports of a new CDMA iPad being released in addition to the UMTS and Wi-Fi models currently available. Suppliers in the Far East suggested that the CDMA variant would account for roughly 30 percent of all iPads manufactured.
post #2 of 42
iPads are very popular to take on trips. Your Verizon CDMA iPad will not work in Europe! (or any other cool place.....unless you think China is cool)
post #3 of 42
Sure.. For iPad 2.
post #4 of 42
Well, if you have a Viphone, with hotspot, a CDMA ipad may not be needed. Nice! I do like that idea.
On the other hand, for you chatty users, the Viphone can't talk and chew gum(data) at the same time. Zzz-innngggg!
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post #5 of 42
My crystal ball says:
Apple will have an another event by the end of the month to release new iPads and Macbooks! the next-gen iPad will have both GSM/HSPA+ and CDMA variants. 6 months is enough time between the CDMA iphone vs the GSM one, but a couple of months is too short of a time to come out with a iPad v1 that's cdma compatible only to have trumped ~2 months later.

BTW, China is a cool place.
post #6 of 42
If anything, I would hope that they put both CDMA and GSM into the iPad. Space constraints aren't as much of an issue in that device. It would totally suck to have to buy a different model to connect to a different carrier. By having dual radios, customers could buy subscriptions based on where they are getting the best coverage.

The confusion level between the wifi and 3G models is enough for some consumers. Now if you have to decide which one to buy based on the 3G service, it's going to be a world of mess.
post #7 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

iPads are very popular to take on trips. Your Verizon CDMA iPad will not work in Europe! (or any other cool place.....unless you think China is cool)

most people don't care since there will be enough wifi that they won't want to pay the extra cost anyway
post #8 of 42
iPad 2 with GSM and CDMA built in.

It's too late to announce a CDMA version of the current iPad and I highly doubt Apple wants a third iPad line to further cloud their offerings.
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post #9 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalG View Post

My crystal ball says the next-gen iPad will have both GSM/HSPA+ and CDMA variants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjojade View Post

If anything, I would hope that they put both CDMA and GSM into the iPad. Space constraints aren't as much of an issue in that device. It would totally suck to have to buy a different model to connect to a different carrier.

This is the only product that it would be feasible, but there are is still the issue of cost. I know a lot of people think these chips are cost pennies on the dollar and nothing to produce and license, but that simply isnt the case.
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post #10 of 42
What I would like to see in the iPad 2 space:

1) a model supporting all major cell radios -- current through 4G (LTE or whatever)

2) offered by Apple, resellers at a MSRP without contract

3) PayGo data plans by carriers -- ala the current ATT monthly plan

4) Carrier option to offer lower (subsidized) price with contract

5) Any carrier that sells iPad agrees to provide PayGo/Roaming support for iPad purchased elsewhere

This would put Apple firmly in control of its product pricing and product features.

With choice of any cell carrier, customer can pick and choose what best suits him?


This "Global iPad" will set the standard for how "Global iPhones" are offered when the technology is available.
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post #11 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

This is the only product that it would be feasible, but there are is still the issue of cost. I know a lot of people think these chips are cost pennies on the dollar and nothing to produce and license, but that simply isnt the case.

Sol,

You are pretty much up to speed on all this!

What do you think are the total costs (parts, manufacturing, licensing, etc.) to make an Universal iPad -- that works on everything. Assume it would include some specialized radio management software/hardware so that the multiple radios would not be on simultaneously -- draining battery.

.
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post #12 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

This is the only product that it would be feasible, but there are is still the issue of cost. I know a lot of people think these chips are cost pennies on the dollar and nothing to produce and license, but that simply isnt the case.

Don't forget Apple's economies of scale.
20-30 million CDMA antennas.
post #13 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

This is the only product that it would be feasible, but there are is still the issue of cost. I know a lot of people think these chips are cost pennies on the dollar and nothing to produce and license, but that simply isnt the case.

Apple could just eat the cost and take a small hit on its profit margin. They have said in the past that they're in a way better position to capitalize on economies of scale compared to anyone else and that they specifically have room to move with the iPad pricing if they have to.
post #14 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

What I would like to see in the iPad 2 space:

1) a model supporting all major cell radios -- current through 4G (LTE or whatever)

2) offered by Apple, resellers at a MSRP without contract

3) PayGo data plans by carriers -- ala the current ATT monthly plan

4) Carrier option to offer lower (subsidized) price with contract

5) Any carrier that sells iPad agrees to provide PayGo/Roaming support for iPad purchased elsewhere

This would put Apple firmly in control of its product pricing and product features.

With choice of any cell carrier, customer can pick and choose what best suits him?


This "Global iPad" will set the standard for how "Global iPhones" are offered when the technology is available.

6) stereo speakers instead of one big one on the back
7) GPS chip standard
8) matte screen
post #15 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

most people don't care since there will be enough wifi that they won't want to pay the extra cost anyway

Yep, Al...Personally I'm leaning towards a WiFi only next gen. iPad. I can use my ATT iPhone 4 for when I don't have Wifi....I just don't want another $20-$30 coming out of my checking account! I want to keep my relationship with companies like ATT and Cocks Cable, Google, MS and car/health insurance companies to a minimum! Ugggh!

Best

PS. Same with Banks, Credit Card companies!
post #16 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalG View Post



BTW, China is a cool place.

I know, it's great, even the guys look like chicks!
post #17 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Sol,

You are pretty much up to speed on all this!

What do you think are the total costs (parts, manufacturing, licensing, etc.) to make an Universal iPad -- that works on everything. Assume it would include some specialized radio management software/hardware so that the multiple radios would not be on simultaneously -- draining battery.

I have no idea. There are too many unknowns. But if we look at the upgrade cost of these 3G additions to other devices and USB/PCMCIA cards it seems unlikely to me that it could fall into that price point and still yield Apple the profit they want.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

Don't forget Apple's economies of scale.
20-30 million CDMA antennas.

Qualcomm used to charge a per unit licensing cost that was a percentage of the total device cost. Unless Apple can get make a better deal with Qualcomm it seems impossible to me that they would go this route.

Now consider that cost with all the iPhones to be sold for the next 5 years if they made one device for the world, depsite most the world of iPhone buyers only having access to GSM/UMTS networks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalG View Post

Apple could just eat the cost and take a small hit on its profit margin. They have said in the past that they're in a way better position to capitalize on economies of scale compared to anyone else and that they specifically have room to move with the iPad pricing if they have to.

Sure, they could, but their goal is to maximize profits. If they think they can do that by creating one model from two, they will. Note that other vendors arent making these world mode anything in bulk. The only phones that are world mode hamstrung in many ways. If these was more economical Id have expected these to be the norm, not the exception. If anyone can do it, Apple can with their economy of scale, but that is not a guarantee its high enough to benefit them or even if that is an issue.
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post #18 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

What I would like to see in the iPad 2 space:

1) a model supporting all major cell radios -- current through 4G (LTE or whatever)

2) offered by Apple, resellers at a MSRP without contract

3) PayGo data plans by carriers -- ala the current ATT monthly plan

4) Carrier option to offer lower (subsidized) price with contract

5) Any carrier that sells iPad agrees to provide PayGo/Roaming support for iPad purchased elsewhere

This would put Apple firmly in control of its product pricing and product features.

With choice of any cell carrier, customer can pick and choose what best suits him?


This "Global iPad" will set the standard for how "Global iPhones" are offered when the technology is available.

Dick, Happy Holidays!

Have you noticed any increase in 3G speed in your area (Foreclosure Valley? - hope it loses its moniker soon, by the way). I've noticed since last weekend an increase of 2x-3x in download speed, and an increase in upload of 5X, all around the area encompassing Palo Alto/Mtn View//Sunnyvale. Guess ATT "turned on" their HSPA+ fiber in time with the Verizon launch, just so they could say Verizon's 3G speed in "living in the slow lane".
post #19 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

I know, it's great, even the guys look like chicks!

That comment is wrong in so many ways, funny, but wrong.
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post #20 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

This is the only product that it would be feasible, but there are is still the issue of cost. I know a lot of people think these chips are cost pennies on the dollar and nothing to produce and license, but that simply isnt the case.

I understand that the chips will be more expensive but let's not forget the cost associated with running different production lines and maintaining inventory for separate products. A single model that could be shipped anywhere that Apple has a carrier partner would offset a good portion of the increased chip cost.
post #21 of 42
Isn't the Mi-Fi the better deal? I mean, if you have that you have a Wi-Fi signal and you can then 1) have a FaceTime chat on your iPhone while on the road, 2) can share that wi-fi with up to 4 other people, 3) not drain the battery as fast on your iPad since the Wi-Fi performance is better and 4) if the iPad 2 comes with the cameras you'd be able to FaceTime. If they switch the iPad to an integrated CDMA chip you actually lose all of that functionality and yet the price will remain the same...
post #22 of 42
I use windows tablets at work that have the GOBI card which is a world wide card. If the iPad uses the same then it will work on any carrier any place any time.

That said having WiFi Hot Spot on a iPhone would be just as good as having a MiFi and connecting the iPad to it.
post #23 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdaddyp View Post

That comment is wrong in so many ways, funny, but wrong.

I know. Sometimes I can't help myself!
post #24 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timon View Post

I use windows tablets at work that have the GOBI card which is a world wide card. If the iPad uses the same then it will work on any carrier any place any time.

Gobi is certainly an option. It’s already mini-PCIe like the current iPad 3G card. I’m not sure if the card will fit in the space, if the power drain is within Apple’s requirements, or if the cost is low enough for their needs.

The 2000 models don’t support AWS so T-Mobile USA and some other carriers are excluded, but I do recall reading about a 3000 model that does have AWS as an additional UMTS frequency band. That would pretty much make it a universal model across the globe.


PS: I can only find Gobi in a shipping product in the $200 to $250 range.
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post #25 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalG View Post

My crystal ball says:
Apple will have an another event by the end of the month to release new iPads and Macbooks! the next-gen iPad will have both GSM/HSPA+ and CDMA variants. .

Or how about one pad with both

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post #26 of 42
Let's not forget that Verizonwireless sells several CDMA phones that work globally (most Blackberries for starters). If these multi-standard phones are no big deal to make and sell then certainly a multi-standard iPad can't be any big deal to pull off, either.
post #27 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

Let's not forget that Verizonwireless sells several CDMA phones that work globally (most Blackberries for starters). If these multi-standard phones are no big deal to make and sell then certainly a multi-standard iPad can't be any big deal to pull off, either.

I dont know why this keeps being said. They dont. They never have. Having GSM/UMTS and CDMA does not make a phone work every where. You still need to have the appropriate frequency bands to make them work on all GSM/UMTS and CDMA networks. This is possible to have, but it comes at a cost that is much more than the price tag, which is why all phones are not made world mode phones.
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post #28 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagman View Post

Dick, Happy Holidays!

Have you noticed any increase in 3G speed in your area (Foreclosure Valley? - hope it loses its moniker soon, by the way). I've noticed since last weekend an increase of 2x-3x in download speed, and an increase in upload of 5X, all around the area encompassing Palo Alto/Mtn View//Sunnyvale. Guess ATT "turned on" their HSPA+ fiber in time with the Verizon launch, just so they could say Verizon's 3G speed in "living in the slow lane".

Nah! Just ran some tests and it is slower than 1 month ago... I have always had difficulty getting consistent times.

We live in Antioch and the 3G coverage got pretty good about 1 year ago. I can be in the middle of a park and can pretty reliably stream video to my iPad over 3G from NetFlix or ServeToMe -- a few hiccoughs, but acceptable.

I also, regularly run EvoCam with 4 videos when we're away for extended periods -- it does a good job too.
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post #29 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I don’t know why this keeps being said. They don’t. They never have. Having GSM/UMTS and CDMA does not make a phone work every where. You still need to have the appropriate frequency bands to make them work on all GSM/UMTS and CDMA networks. This is possible to have, but it comes at a cost that is much more than the price tag, which is why all phones are not made “world mode” phones.

This is what Verizonwireless touts for the BB 9650 which I imagine is typical for what they call "Global Ready":

Devices come with a Pre-Installed SIM Card that are both CDMA and GSM Capable. Voice service in over 220 countries, data in over 200 countries, more than 125 with 3G Speeds.

It might not technically be "everywhere" but I'm sure it has to be considered "most everywhere". What do you think are the three most important countries it won't work?
post #30 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Gobi is certainly an option. Its already mini-PCIe like the current iPad 3G card. Im not sure if the card will fit in the space, if the power drain is within Apples requirements, or if the cost is low enough for their needs.

The 2000 models dont support AWS so T-Mobile USA and some other carriers are excluded, but I do recall reading about a 3000 model that does have AWS as an additional UMTS frequency band. That would pretty much make it a universal model across the globe.


PS: I can only find Gobi in a shipping product in the $200 to $250 range.

I found these:

http://www.google.com/search?q=GOBI+...w=1645&bih=910


II have a question. Do these cards like the Gobi Card also support voice -- in other words, could a "World iPad" be used as a phone in a pinch, especially with earphones and microphone?

.
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post #31 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

This is what Verizonwireless touts for the BB 9650 which I imagine is typical for what they call "Gobal Ready":

Devices come with a Pre-Installed SIM Card that are both CDMA and GSM Capable. Voice service in over 220 countries, data in over 200 countries, more than 125 with 3G Speeds.

It might not technically be "everywhere" but I'm sure it has to be considered "most everywhere". What do you think are the three most important countries it won't work?

Check out the specs. It has a single UMTS frequency band. That means Verizon (or Sprint if you have their model) will not on any carrier in N. America except that CDMA carrier, unless you want to use GSM 2G because those 4 bands are required for global GSM access. Now, that does allow it to be used in A good part of Europe, Asia, some of Africa and Oceania, as well as Brazil on select carriers, but that still isnt going to fly for Apples product because its not a Verizon or Sprint-focused product.

The only way this would work is if they use a Gobi card which essentially does reduce all limitations, but again that comes with a cost. A cost that you know is real because all phones are using all cellular network types and radios within.
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post #32 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Check out the specs. It has a single UMTS frequency band. That means Verizon (or Sprint if you have their model) will not on any carrier in N. America except that CDMA carrier, unless you want to use GSM 2G because those 4 bands are required for global GSM access. Now, that does allow it to be used in A good part of Europe, Asia, some of Africa and Oceania, as well as Brazil on select carriers, but that still isnt going to fly for Apples product because its not a Verizon or Sprint-focused product.

The only way this would work is if they use a Gobi card which essentially does reduce all limitations, but again that comes with a cost. A cost that you know is real because all phones are using all cellular network types and radios within.

But isn't that a moot point? Verizonwireless isn't trying to make their stuff run on AT&T's network or anyone else's in N. America. What their customers want are devices they can take to Europe and Asia and have them work without fuss. And that's what they do.
post #33 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

But isn't that a moot point? Verizonwireless isn't trying to make their stuff run on AT&T's network or anyone else's in N. America. What their customers want are devices they can take to Europe and Asia and have them work without fuss. And that's what they do.

Its not a moot point, its the point. They are clearly trying to limit the usability of the device when in the US. That also means limiting the usability else as collateral damage.

My problem is with saying how these phones exist in droves and work great all over the world despite the drawbacks to chip size, power efficiency, cost to manufacture and license, and the number of radios Apple would hev to add to make it viable for them thus adding even more cost to the previous issues. The bottom line is you cant look at the 9650 and say that is the solution for Apples phones because its not.
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post #34 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

My problem is with saying how these phones exist in droves and work great all over the world despite the drawbacks to chip size, power efficiency, cost to manufacture and license, and the number of radios Apple would hev to add to make it viable for them thus adding even more cost to the previous issues. The bottom line is you cant look at the 9650 and say that is the solution for Apples phones because its not.

The difference here is that we are not talking about a phone but an iPad where there is more internal volume to provide a solution - perhaps one less expensive than something required for a phone-sized device. There is no doubt that there would be additional hardware and licensing cost to go this route. But there would also be the benefit of streamlined production and inventory management as well as some pretty nice bragging rights.

If anyone can do this, it is Apple: they not only have the best-selling tablet to drive economies of scale, they also have that massive war chest to work out some pretty sweet deals with their vendors.
post #35 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by penchanted View Post

The difference here is that we are not talking about a phone but an iPad where there is more internal volume to provide a solution - perhaps one less expensive than something required for a phone-sized device. There is no doubt that there would be additional hardware and licensing cost to go this route. But there would also be the benefit of streamlined production and inventory management as well as some pretty nice bragging rights.

If anyone can do this, it is Apple: they not only have the best-selling tablet to drive economies of scale, they also have that massive war chest to work out some pretty sweet deals with their vendors.

Yeah, and I made mention of the specific chips that could potentially work. Qualcomm even licenses the chip so others can make them. Apple would probably the largest producer of Gobi mini-PCIe chips if they went they route, perhaps even making keeping it close to the current 3G upgrade price.

http://www.option.com/en/products/pr...cations/#start This might be about the iPad right now, but the mention of smartphones can do it so easily wit no drawbacks is a fairly common topic. There is something that makes us think Apple can do anything so if one company makes a product that has do it then Apple is suppose to be able to do it better, even if the physics don’t support it. For instance, how many are expecting LTE in the iPhone 5 simply because there are some large LTE smartphones arriving this year?
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post #36 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Its not a moot point, its the point. They are clearly trying to limit the usability of the device when in the US. That also means limiting the usability else as collateral damage.

My problem is with saying how these phones exist in droves and work great all over the world despite the drawbacks to chip size, power efficiency, cost to manufacture and license, and the number of radios Apple would hev to add to make it viable for them thus adding even more cost to the previous issues. The bottom line is you cant look at the 9650 and say that is the solution for Apples phones because its not.

I guess we'll agree to disagree. My view is customers want an iPad that works most places in the world. I take it your view is customers want an iPad that works on everyone's network. I'll stick to my view that customers aren't necessarily concerned about their iPad bought at a Verizonwireless store working on AT&T, T-Mobile, and Sprint... but that it works on British Telecom, Deutche Telecom, etc.
post #37 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

I guess we'll agree to disagree. My view is customers want an iPad that works most places in the world. I take it your view is customers want an iPad that works on everyone's network. I'll stick to my view that customers aren't necessarily concerned about their iPad bought at a Verizonwireless store working on AT&T, T-Mobile, and Sprint... but that it works on British Telecom, Deutche Telecom, etc.

Im not exactly sure what youre disagreeing with. Wasnt the inital reasoning for the world mode iPhone/iPad so it could connect with CDMA/EV-DO as well as the GSM/UMTS networks it currently supports? Why would anyone expect Apple to drop 4 of their UMTS bands just to add CDMA/EV-DO support for Verizon? That makes no sense to add CDMA to support Verizon just to shun the rest of N. America, including AT&T.
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post #38 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

iPads are very popular to take on trips. Your Verizon CDMA iPad will not work in Europe! (or any other cool place.....unless you think China is cool)

Won't work? You mean I won't be able to turn it on? Can't load photos off my camera? Check my email using wi-fi?
post #39 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

What I would like to see in the iPad 2 space:

1) a model supporting all major cell radios -- current through 4G (LTE or whatever)

2) offered by Apple, resellers at a MSRP without contract

3) PayGo data plans by carriers -- ala the current ATT monthly plan

4) Carrier option to offer lower (subsidized) price with contract

5) Any carrier that sells iPad agrees to provide PayGo/Roaming support for iPad purchased elsewhere

This would put Apple firmly in control of its product pricing and product features.

With choice of any cell carrier, customer can pick and choose what best suits him?


This "Global iPad" will set the standard for how "Global iPhones" are offered when the technology is available.


I 2nd that motion!
post #40 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

This might be about the iPad right now, but the mention of smartphones can do it so easily wit no drawbacks is a fairly common topic. There is something that makes us think Apple can do anything so if one company makes a product that has do it then Apple is suppose to be able to do it better, even if the physics dont support it. For instance, how many are expecting LTE in the iPhone 5 simply because there are some large LTE smartphones arriving this year?

I definitely understand your point and I don't see Apple trying to shoehorn this into a phone device but I think it could work to Apple's advantage in the iPad.

I think Apple will resist any "checklist pressures" to include LTE in the next iPhone upgrade. I think the focus will be on faster processor, memory and, maybe, a newer version of the PowerVR graphics processor.
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