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Apple will not allow Verizon to preload software on iPhone

post #1 of 97
Thread Starter 
New iPhone users on Verizon's network won't find preloaded carrier software on their phones, but will be able to download carrier-specific apps from iTunes.

According to a report by Ars Technica, Apple's senior vice president of worldwide product marketing Phil Schiller told members of the press that there would be no software pre-installed by Verizon.

Verizon has been a leading proponent of bundled software on its mobile phones, a practice users often deride as "crapware." In addition to forcing its own V CAST mobile music and app store and Navigator subscription GPS software, Verizon has also partnered with others to include apps for things that users can't remove without rooting their BlackBerry and Android phones.

Verizon's preinstalled apps, often installed on the phone's front page for maximum effect and difficult for users remove, include Microsoft's Bing app, Amazon's Kindle and MP3 store apps, a Backup Assistant, an unpopular Blockbuster app, a "nagware" title called City ID which repeatedly asks users to sign up for a $2 per month subscription, and a Skype client.

Verizon has also automatically added additional difficult to remove software in Android's "over the air" updates, recently installing Adobe Flash and demo copies of a game in a December OS update.

No crapware

Other carriers, including AT&T, do the same, although Apple doesn't allow any carrier to force apps to users on new iPhones or as updates. That's a policy neither Google, nor RIM, nor Microsoft, nor Nokia has copied on their own mobile platforms, although Google has attempted to release "Nexus" branded Android models without carrier crapware.

Not bundling crapware was reportedly a contentious issue between Apple and Verizon in the past, as the apps provide Verizon with significant revenues. Apple has long resisted similar bundles of preloaded nagware apps on Macs, in contrast to the crapware dripping from most Windows PCs.

"We want the experience to be the same for every iPhone user," Schiller told the press at Verizon's iPhone launch event. "So there are no special Verizon apps preinstalled. AT&T offers customers some apps via the App Store. I'll let Verizon comment if they are working on anything for that."

In its FAQ, Verizon notes that "iPhone will have the 3G Mobile Hotspot app pre-installed, and it will also have other popular apps available in the market such as VZ Navigator, and V CAST Media Manager."

Verizon already set up for WiFi Tethering

The "3G Mobile Hotspot" is not actually an app, but rather a new built in feature of the iOS that enables 3G network sharing (tethering) over WiFi, in addition to the system's existing support for Bluetooth and USB tethering. The feature is packaged as an app on other platforms Verizon carries.

"We did the hotspot feature because it's something Verizon offers," Schiller said. "They have a system and specs for it in place. We can't say if it will come to AT&T."

Multiple sites have suggested the WiFi tethering feature, also called "personal hotspot," will roll out everywhere as part of the upcoming iOS 4.3.

WiFi Tethering for AT&T?

AT&T notoriously dragged its heels in providing initial Bluetooth and USB tethering (and MMS) support for iPhone users for months of 2009 and into 2010, long after Apple added the capability to iOS 3.0.

With WiFi tethering now suddenly supported in the new version of iOS running on the Verizon phone, it appears that the new feature wasn't held up by technical reasons at Apple, but rather simply because AT&T didn't have a network capable of supporting it.

AT&T may decide, as it did earlier with both MMS and Bluetooth tethering, that it can't support the Wifi tethering feature, regardless of its availability in iOS. Adding "personal hotspot" WiFi tethering as a feature of the iPhone and iPad would all but destroy the business model behind selling 3G service plans for the iPad to existing iPhone users.
post #2 of 97
Is ATT trying to fail on purpose? I think the share holders need to re-examine the upper management. It seems like AT&T is hell bent on self sabotage. They act like they don't want to make any meaningful and timely investments in improving their network. Then they want to cut off services that consumers are paying higher prices than they would on other carriers for.
post #3 of 97
Too bad Apple also includes plenty of "crapware" (in this case, apps with limited functionality that you can't remove if you don't want/need them)

Stocks (I use eTrade Mobile Pro)
Compass (who gives a *&^%)
Weather (I use The Weather Channel)

I've got them all rounded up in a folder on my second page of apps.
post #4 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Too bad Apple also includes plenty of "crapware" (in this case, apps with limited functionality that you can't remove if you don't want/need them)

Stocks (I use eTrade Mobile Pro)
Compass (who gives a *&^%)
Weather (I use The Weather Channel)

I've got them all rounded up in a folder on my second page of apps.

I'll gladly take what you consider to be Apple "Crapware" any day over what the telco's place on phones.

Those three apps do come in handy and they are nowhere near obtrusive when compared to the competition.

I use the compass app quite often when teaching surface navigation on beaches and parks to students preparing to take underwater navigation. I train folks all the time using the app. It does the trick perfectly. It doesn't even click at first for some of my adult students that their iPhone has a compass with the necessary markings. Save's them a little $$ in purchasing a dedicated compass.
post #5 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

although Google has attempted to release "Nexus" branded Android models without carrier crapware.

There's nothing "attempted" about it--Google developed and successfully released two Nexus phones without "crapware."
post #6 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Too bad Apple also includes plenty of "crapware" (in this case, apps with limited functionality that you can't remove if you don't want/need them)

Stocks (I use eTrade Mobile Pro)
Compass (who gives a *&^%)
Weather (I use The Weather Channel)

I've got them all rounded up in a folder on my second page of apps.

Wow. That is not crapware... its useful basic software that does the job. The disk footprint is also so low on these items as to not impact anything you might do. You don't know what the definition of crapware is, if you honestly think that is it.
post #7 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

.... Apple has long resisted similar bundles of preloaded nagware apps on Macs, in contrast to the crapware dripping from most Windows PCs. ....

You're in good form today Daniel!
post #8 of 97
Why am I not surprised..
post #9 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by REC View Post

Wow. That is not crapware... its useful basic software that does the job. The disk footprint is also so low on these items as to not impact anything you might do. You don't know what the definition of crapware is, if you honestly think that is it.

I know what the definition is. I'm just saying that the apps are useless to me, I never use them, and they must be "hidden" in a folder as they have been replaced by me with more functional apps.

To me, the apps are "crap" that I don't need. I wish that I could get rid of them completely so that I didn't even have to look at them (you can do it easily if you jailbreak) for a cleaner page/app layout.
post #10 of 97
I do not believe the reason WiFi tethering not available on current iPhones is due to AT&T. Unlike Bluetooth/USB-tethering, which many iPhone carriers worldwide made available months before AT&T, WiFi tethering is not currently available for any iPhone carrier in the world, period.
post #11 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by REC View Post

Wow. That is not crapware... its useful basic software that does the job. The disk footprint is also so low on these items as to not impact anything you might do. You don't know what the definition of crapware is, if you honestly think that is it.

Actually it is, according to many definitions. Wikipedia defines it as "Pre-installed software is the software already installed and licensed on a computer bought from an original equipment manufacturer (OEM)," which those clearly are.

At any rate, the stock app is just one of several that are completely useless to me, and are certainly "crap" by virtue of it being useless and unremovable.
post #12 of 97
I think on balance Apple is right about the crapware.
post #13 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktula View Post

I do not believe the reason WiFi tethering not available on current iPhones is due to AT&T. Unlike Bluetooth/USB-tethering, which many iPhone carriers worldwide made available months before AT&T, WiFi tethering is not currently available for any iPhone carrier in the world, period.

You told you that? My carrier allows it in Canada. It is not available for any carrier yet, including Verizon, because Apple has not released the support for it yet in iOS. Just like Bluetooth/USB tethering wasn't available for iPhones until Apple released it, regardless of carrier.

Now, if you ask, why have they not released it yet (and why didn't the include USB/BT tethering in earlier versions) it does seem that is at AT&T's request. But, just like Apple included USB/BT tethering eventually and allowed carriers to enable it or disable per account, they can do the same for wifi tethering. Many carriers allow it.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #14 of 97
The crapware on the iPhone is extremely limited. Now that you can tuck it away in a folder makes it acceptable, I suppose. Still wish I could delete them or at least hide them completely if I wanted to.

On my Android phone though, the problem is much worse. There are tons of apps that were conveniently pre-loaded for me, and I can't do a thing about it unless I root the phone, which I have no interest in doing.

I'm happy that Apple is at least keeping the phones as consistent as possible. However, I wonder if they are going to expand the apps available on the app store to be only available on that carrier. That could spell disaster.
post #15 of 97
To compare Verizon's crapware to Apple's crapware is absurd. Verizon's bundle has zero usefulness and is HUGELY annoying. Apple's you can easily ignore what you don't want to use and it doesn't make you wish you had a different phone.
post #16 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Too bad Apple also includes plenty of "crapware" (in this case, apps with limited functionality that you can't remove if you don't want/need them)

Stocks (I use eTrade Mobile Pro)
Compass (who gives a *&^%)
Weather (I use The Weather Channel)

I've got them all rounded up in a folder on my second page of apps.

One man's crap is another man's gold.

I use Apple's apps all the time.

The difference is that you can move them out of the way and they are FREE and cost you NOTHING. Whereas CRAP from Verizon costs its customers lot of money.

So yes Apple preloads standard apps but I would not call them crapware.
post #17 of 97
The lack of pre-loaded Verizon apps should pretty much slam the door on the "Apple needs Verizon more" crowd. I guess there is a slim chance that Apple agreed to a higher share of iTunes and App Store sales on the VeriPhone.....naw.
post #18 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlandd View Post

Apple's you can easily ignore what you don't want to use and it doesn't make you wish you had a different phone.

No, but plenty of other things about the iPhone do (yes, I still own one).
post #19 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Too bad Apple also includes plenty of "crapware" (in this case, apps with limited functionality that you can't remove if you don't want/need them)

Stocks (I use eTrade Mobile Pro)
Compass (who gives a *&^%)
Weather (I use The Weather Channel)

I've got them all rounded up in a folder on my second page of apps.

wah. cry me a river. at least you can get them out of the way. btw, if you dislike apple so much, why aren't you using android or some other non-apple productor are you on here just to bitch and moan? yeah, that must be it.
post #20 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjojade View Post

The crapware on the iPhone is extremely limited. Now that you can tuck it away in a folder makes it acceptable, I suppose. Still wish I could delete them or at least hide them completely if I wanted to.

I used "Poof" back when I used to jailbreak. That allowed me to hide anything I didn't want showing up:

post #21 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac_dog View Post

wah. cry me a river. at least you can get them out of the way. btw, if you dislike apple so much, why aren't you using android or some other non-apple productor are you on here just to bitch and moan? yeah, that must be it.

Who said anything about disliking Apple? Jump to conclusions much?
post #22 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Verizon has been a leading proponent of bundled software on its mobile phones, a practice users often deride as "crapware." In addition to forcing its own V CAST mobile music and app store and Navigator subscription GPS software, Verizon has also partnered with others to include apps for things that users can't remove without rooting their BlackBerry and Android phones.
.



The iPhone comes with lots of crapware as it is. The stocks app? Weather? They suck and cannot be removed.
post #23 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarchetta View Post

Wikipedia defines it as "Pre-installed software is the software already installed and licensed on a computer bought from an original equipment manufacturer (OEM)," which those clearly are.

That is the definition for pre-installed software. Crapware has a seperate definition a little further down the page.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Often new computers come with pre-installed software which the manufacturer was paid to include but is of dubious value to the purchaser. Such unwanted preinstalled software and advertisements are derogatorily called craplets, a portmanteau of crap and applet, and crapware.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarchetta View Post

At any rate, the stock app is just one of several that are completely useless to me, and are certainly "crap" by virtue of it being useless and unremovable.

These apps are useless to me as well, but they aren't trying to sell me anything, or push ads in my face either. They sit in a folder, on the third page, nearly forgotten about. Just because I don't use these apps, doesn't make them crapware though.
post #24 of 97
I'll take 20+ years of Cocoa expertise for those Apple apps first and foremost.
post #25 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarchetta View Post

There's nothing "attempted" about it--Google developed and successfully released two Nexus phones without "crapware."

And only one of them is still around. Because it was released just barely over a month ago. I give it another month of life.

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

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Sent from my iPhone Simulator

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post #26 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

I use the compass app quite often when teaching surface navigation on beaches and parks to students preparing to take underwater navigation. I train folks all the time using the app. It does the trick perfectly. It doesn't even click at first for some of my adult students that their iPhone has a compass with the necessary markings. Save's them a little $$ in purchasing a dedicated compass.



But the iPhone compass is totally inaccurate. Try pointing it straight north, and then turn it 180 degrees. No way will it read straight south.

Try it.
post #27 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarchetta View Post

Actually it is, according to many definitions. Wikipedia defines it as "Pre-installed software is the software already installed and licensed on a computer bought from an original equipment manufacturer (OEM)," which those clearly are.

At any rate, the stock app is just one of several that are completely useless to me, and are certainly "crap" by virtue of it being useless and unremovable.

Actually you missed the OEM part of that explanation. Apple does not buy its hardware from an OEM, Apple makes the hardware. Apple also does not license software, it develops its own. Any software that comes pre-installed by Apple is a feature of the device. Whether you find that feature useful, is up to you, but it most certainly isn't crap ware.

The difference... HTC makes the hardware (OEM), Google provides the OS, and then Verizon jams a bunch of "crap" on the device to push its services. It is crap because it has got nothing to do with the device itself, it is only there to push services a user may or may not want and is completely worthless unless the user subscribes to those services.
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #28 of 97
Apple will not "allow"? All we know is that it's not there. We don't know why.

The title may as well be "Apple payed Verizon to keep preloaded software off the iPhone" or "Apple gives Verizon exclusive access to iPhone 5 to keep preloaded software off the iPhone" as "Apple will not allow Verizon to preload software on iPhone" is just one possible scenario.
post #29 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

.... I'm just saying that the apps are useless to me, I never use them, and they must be "hidden" in a folder as they have been replaced by me with more functional apps. ...To me, the apps are "crap" that I don't need. ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarchetta View Post

... the stock app is just one of several that are completely useless to me, and are certainly "crap" by virtue of it being useless and unremovable.

The two posters above are absolutely right. Apple loads it's own crapware and it *is* crapware by definition. It's unwanted, it's *not* useful, and you cannot remove it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlandd View Post

To compare Verizon's crapware to Apple's crapware is absurd. Verizon's bundle has zero usefulness and is HUGELY annoying. Apple's you can easily ignore what you don't want to use and it doesn't make you wish you had a different phone.

This is faulty reasoning. "Usefulness" is subjective. To me, and obviously to many others, this is completely useless software, it's not a part of the main OS (not required), but can't be removed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsonice View Post

One man's crap is another man's gold.

I use Apple's apps all the time.

The difference is that you can move them out of the way and they are FREE and cost you NOTHING. Whereas CRAP from Verizon costs its customers lot of money.

So yes Apple preloads standard apps but I would not call them crapware.

Also faulty reasoning. If you can remove them, they are regular apps. If you can't, they are crapware by definition if you don't find them useful and they aren't a part of the main operating system or needed by the OS to function.

I would add a few others to the list, but we all have our differing needs. For instance you couldn't pay me to use the crappy email app on the iPad and since I always have my iPhone anyway, so the email app on the iPad is "crapware" to me. GameCentre is also completely useless to large portions of the iPhone buying public. Even if some of these apps have hooks into the OS, they could easily provide a way to hide them from view.

It also makes a big difference how you use your phone or device. If you are one of those that has 8 billion apps on the thing, then a few extra icons is no big deal. You might not even come across them only once a month. If, like me, you only have the apps that you want and are using, then five or six extra icons is a whole page worth of garbage that you have to look at every day when you don't even want it.
post #30 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarchetta View Post

No, but plenty of other things about the iPhone do (yes, I still own one).

So, you're saying you're basically just a masochistic jerk and we should all ignore you, because you enjoy using a product that gives you something to complain about and love bitching about it on these message boards?

Good for you.

<ignore id="redbarchetta"/>
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #31 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by CEOstevie View Post

But the iPhone compass is totally inaccurate. Try pointing it straight north, and then turn it 180 degrees. No way will it read straight south.

Try it.

I did. It did. Next.
post #32 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarchetta View Post

Actually it is, according to many definitions. Wikipedia defines it as "Pre-installed software is the software already installed and licensed on a computer bought from an original equipment manufacturer (OEM)," which those clearly are.

At any rate, the stock app is just one of several that are completely useless to me, and are certainly "crap" by virtue of it being useless and unremovable.

Wikipedia does not, in fact, explicitly define crapware. It defines pre-installed software, and has a subcategory on that page that defines the concept of craplets. But it does not have an explicit entry for crapware. Urbandictionary does, so I believe it to be the more authoritative source in this case.

Lets look at this definition shall we?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=crapware

Quote:
crapware
(1)malware

No. It definitely does not meet any definition close to malware.

Quote:
(2)useless software, not malicious in nature, shipped with OEM machines, or installed by computer users

While it could potentially meet the definition of 'useless' software, this is a highly subjective definition. I could say that Safari is 'useless' if I wanted to, because I choose not to like it personally, and therefore it is crapware. Clearly that doesn't hold up, and that's not what 'useless' means in this situation.

'Useless' here means useless to people generally, software that is harmful or not useful to the general population. Do the preinstalled apps that Apple gives on its iOS devices meet this definition of useless? Clearly no. They are useful and good to many users who just want basic apps that work.

This is the fundamental difference between pre-installed software and crapware. Both are pre-installed, but only one kind is either malware, or bloat, or clearly definably useless (and not just subjectively useless).

Calculator on Windows is pre-installed, but does not meet the definition of crapware for this reason. It's small and light, doesn't harm the user even if its never used.

Now anything Verizon might pre-install almost certainly would be crapware, but that's not what is happening here. So no worries!
post #33 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

The two posters above are absolutely right. Apple loads it's own crapware and it *is* crapware by definition. It's unwanted, it's *not* useful, and you cannot remove it.

You are absolutely wrong...

Sorry, but "crap ware" is an actual term that has an actual definition. It is not subjective. It is pre-installed software/features beyond what the original manufacturer or developer shipped with.

Crap ware is not only defined as "any software or feature that is useless and/or unremovable", but also includes, "installed by a separate party."

By the actual definition, not yours, Apple's pre-installed software is not crap ware, because it is considered a built-in feature of the device or OS.


Yes, it may be complete crap to you, but that just means it's useless to you. Bloatware, might be a better term to describe some of the pre-installed applications. There's absolutely no reason for Weather, or Stocks, other than Apple wanting a few basic applications.


On the flip side...

If Verizon were to create their own phone using their own OS and had their apps pre-installed, then it would not be considered crap ware, it would simply be a feature (or bloatware) of Verizon's phones.
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #34 of 97
I completely disagree that it would "all but destroy the business model behind selling 3G service plans for the iPad to existing iPhone users".

iPhone 2GB Data = $25
iPhone 2GB w/ Tethering = $45
iPad 2GB Data = $25

Those who have a 2GB iPhone data plan and 2GB of iPad data get 4 GB between the devices for $50. Assuming they allowed tethering over wifi, users who chose to go that route would pay $45, just $5 less, for 2GB of data -- half as much.
post #35 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

I'll gladly take what you consider to be Apple "Crapware" any day over what the telco's place on phones.

Those three apps do come in handy and they are nowhere near obtrusive when compared to the competition.

I use the compass app quite often when teaching surface navigation on beaches and parks to students preparing to take underwater navigation. I train folks all the time using the app. It does the trick perfectly. It doesn't even click at first for some of my adult students that their iPhone has a compass with the necessary markings. Save's them a little $$ in purchasing a dedicated compass.

That's great for you, but I have next to zero use for the compass or stocks apps. Why can't I remove them?
post #36 of 97
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post #37 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

You are absolutely wrong...

Sorry, but "crap ware" is an actual term that has an actual definition. It is not subjective. It is pre-installed software/features beyond what the original manufacturer or developer shipped with.

Crap ware is not only defined as "any software or feature that is useless and/or unremovable", but also includes, "installed by a separate party."

If you take that definition, all the rubbish that comes with a Windows PC cannot be crapware, because the original manufacturer, be it HP or whoever, shipped it that way.

As it happens, the last Dell I bought didn't have any of this, it was a vanilla install of Windows +Dell drivers. At least I don't recall it being so.
post #38 of 97
I wouldn't call these crapware because they use up negligible disk space, don't run unless you open them, and won't nag you to pay for a subscription. You can easily move all of Apple's "crapware", as you call it, into a single folder and never open it. Even if you move all of Verizon's usual crapware off your main screen, they take up more space on average and will nag.
post #39 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

You are absolutely wrong...

Sorry, but "crap ware" is an actual term that has an actual definition. It is not subjective. It is pre-installed software/features beyond what the original manufacturer or developer shipped with.

Crap ware is not only defined as "any software or feature that is useless and/or unremovable", but also includes, "installed by a separate party."

By the actual definition, not yours, Apple's pre-installed software is not crap ware, because it is considered a built-in feature of the device or OS.


Yes, it may be complete crap to you, but that just means it's useless to you. Bloatware, might be a better term to describe some of the pre-installed applications. There's absolutely no reason for Weather, or Stocks, other than Apple wanting a few basic applications.


On the flip side...

If Verizon were to create their own phone using their own OS and had their apps pre-installed, then it would not be considered crap ware, it would simply be a feature (or bloatware) of Verizon's phones.

When did 'what's not good for one' become 'not good for many'? I was ripped when I bought my iPad and it didn't have the Weather app... I have since found a replacement, because I had to, but I rather liked it and still enjoy it on my iPod touch.

So what if I started jumping and screaming that the iPod app is crapware because it's pre-loaded and useless because I use a different app?

Seriously, you're all just fighting Apple hater trolls here.
post #40 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsherly View Post

If you take that definition, all the rubbish that comes with a Windows PC cannot be crapware, because the original manufacturer, be it HP or whoever, shipped it that way.

As it happens, the last Dell I bought didn't have any of this, it was a vanilla install of Windows +Dell drivers. At least I don't recall it being so.


Yes, they are the OEM, but not the developer of what's actually being promised, a Windows computer. Microsoft didn't provide Windows in that condition to the OEM. The OEM took Windows, installed extra stuff and sold it as a "Windows" computer.

Verizon uses Android, installs a bunch of extra stuff on it and passes it off as an Android phone.

All of that installed extra stuff is crap ware.

It is crap, in the sense of it is something that isn't supposed to be there by the moniker being used.

If you walk into your living room and all the clothes from your bedroom and all the dishes from the kitchen are laying all over the place... the first thing you think is, "What is all this crap doing here?"

When you buy a Windows computer or an Android phone and see a bunch of other stuff, you think, "What's this crap?"

When you buy an iPhone, you get exactly what was originally promised, no extra crap, i.e. no crap ware.
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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