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Palin: Blood Libel Claim - Page 2

post #41 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

So you equate what was allegedly said about Palin to the massacre and pogroms of the Jews in Medieval Europe where hundreds of thousands were summarily executed and exiled.

Right. Got that.

It has already been shown from numerous sources that the term is much more widely used than that.

The fact that you feel the need to continue this lie shows far more about your own character than Palin's.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #42 of 71
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

It has already been shown from numerous sources that the term is much more widely used than that.

The fact that you feel the need to continue this lie shows far more about your own character than Palin's.

Rightly or wrongly, the fact I CAN actually feel certain needs does indeed show something.....that some of us are indeed capable of feeling.

As opposed to the moronic automatons who feel nothing and care for nothing and see only destruction and hate and elevate there sickness to the false status of 'good' and 'morality'.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #43 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

One thing that strikes me - and I am being fair and balanced and objective in saying this - about this Palin character is that she is not the right person for.....well...US politics in general.

Even in the face of this tragedy she cannot help 'making a pitch'.

Just film yourself saying something from the heart - if you have one.

Forget the flags, founding fathers and God Bless Mom's Apple Pie. BE REAL ffs.

Except you can't. Or rather you are doing because your 'real' is selling yourself.

Selling yourself in the light of a tragedy. Selling yourself in the light of a depression. Selling yourself in the light of a recovery. Selling yourself in the light of a joy and celebration.

When are you ever 'real'?

Never.

And that is why these gaffes will keep happening. You want it too much and know you haven't earned it or deserved it and know you never will. So your Super-ego sabotages you and shoots you in the foot.

Or Karma does. Or a merciful God who is saving America and the world.

Take your pick.

Interesting that you say Palin is not the right person for US politics in general. For many of us, that's why we find her such a magnetic force. Many of us are sick/tired/fed up with the "politics" of this country. People playing at and nurturing the politics at the local level....do good and you go to state.....do good and go to DC.....do good get a chair position on a desireable comittee etc. The "politicians" have stopped representing the people and serve only to serve themselves and their respective power bases. Some of us believe that the fact that she is an outsider and somewhat of a renegade are good things. Go to DC, do what's right for America vs. what's expected politically.

You say that even in this tragedy she makes a pitch. Guess what. Had it not been for the blood libel crap that the media, some of the left wing politicos and half the bloggers on this site have smeared her with, she would not have needed to say a word. You and the rest of the left wing lynch mobs started it and it's too freaking bad if you don't like the results.

Forget the flag, apple pie etc.? The one thing the liberal left seems not to get is that many of us truly believe that there are some people in this country that still believe in flags and apple pie. Palinl......wave the flag and carry it proudly.

Talk about selling yourself?????? WTF was obummer and the rest of the DC politicos doing there. To see and be seen. Here's the administration that is suing AZ over their immigration law to attempt to ship illegals back to wherever the h*** they come from. Why didn't obummer and his troop show for the service for the rancher killed by the illegal or the border patrol officer killed by the illegal or any of the other victims of illegals? Not as much of a photo op.

When is she ever real? She's real enough to love her country and do a fairly decent job as gov. of Alaska. For the most part, I have a lot more faith that who she presents herself to be is a lot more real than the two faced guy in the White House now. "Let's reach across the aisle" he said while jamming health care down the throats of a vocal majority the clearly said they didn't want it.

Gaffes? You want real......real people make errors and sometimes say things that people don't want to hear. Life isn't perfect and to expect anyone to be perfect is unrealistic. You blast Palin. What is your view of the person currently occupying the WH?

And then you pose the question....that perhaps a merciful God is saving America? With what has occured in the last two years, it's clear that God isn't interested in American politics and we'll have to do it at the ballot box.

God bless the victims and the families of all those hurt in the tragedy that played out in Tuscon. And God bless the victim and family of Sarah Palin hurt by the tragedy of small minded hateful people such as yourself.
post #44 of 71
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dormouse View Post

WTF was obummer and the rest of the DC politicos doing there.

A lot of huffing and puffing went into padding the original post but in the end the political discourse and insight of the new US 'alternative' is all summed up in that one word:

Obummer.

America may need a lot of things....what they'll get is comments like 'Obummer'.

No further comment needed.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #45 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

A lot of huffing and puffing went into padding the original post but in the end the political discourse and insight of the new US 'alternative' is all summed up in that one word:

Obummer.

America may need a lot of things....what they'll get is comments like 'Obummer'.

No further comment needed.

Reading the rhetoric here and in the Gifford shooting thread, we have not learned anything. MLK said it best:

無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #46 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Reading the rhetoric here and in the Gifford shooting thread, we have not learned anything. MLK said it best:

Painting those you disagree with as suicidal lemmings dials down the rhetoric how again?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #47 of 71
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Painting those you disagree with as suicidal lemmings dials down the rhetoric how again?

Seems 'balanced factual assessment' is another term now redefined: rhetoric.

We're going to need a dictionary to keep up with all this revisionism. Especially if there is going to be some sort of Stormtrooper Unit to enforce it which is starting to look inevitable in the years ahead.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #48 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Seems 'balanced factual assessment' is another term now redefined: rhetoric.

We're going to need a dictionary to keep up with all this revisionism. Especially if there is going to be some sort of Stormtrooper Unit to enforce it which is starting to look inevitable in the years ahead.

I'll be happy to here the explanation of how a cartoon representing people marching to their deaths is a "balanced factual assessment."

The rhetorical flourishes afterward are fun reads though. Nice parsley Sego.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #49 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

With a nonpartisan message of unity...HOW AWFUL!

Obviously you didn't get the talking points memo about the party of no not being party of this unity thing.

Unity is trademarked by Democrats much like Hope and Change.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #50 of 71
What's amusing is the fact the media-progressive-liberal-democrat-industiral-complex is desperate to slander repubicans-tea party-conservatives with these murders but at the same time Maj. Nidal Hasan motivation is not at all apparent and not worth reporting on, speculating about or even investigating. Even now it may be too soon to tell what motivated Hasan.
post #51 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Reading the rhetoric here and in the Gifford shooting thread, we have not learned anything. MLK said it best:


Lemmings. Perfect analogy.

I'm sure many will not understand it, though...

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #52 of 71
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Lemmings. Perfect analogy.

I'm sure many will not understand it, though...

They're too busy finding a suitable cliff I suppose....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #53 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by VoicesFromTheDust View Post

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."

~Noam Chomsky

Freedom from bigotry,bias, hatred on minorities traits of Palin who is a born again Christian and a right wing loser.
post #54 of 71
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerald apple View Post

Freedom from bigotry,bias, hatred on minorities traits of Palin who is a born again Christian and a right wing loser.

Chomsky is correct when he says: "If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all" BUT I would argue that we SHOULD NOT believe in it at all.

I would not want to give Hitler free expression....can anyone seriously argue it?

Racists who want to kill Muslims...they exist. They should not have freedom of expression.

Also in religion which is the most fertile source of oppression at the moment: I am nominally Muslim of a sort as you probably know but many Muslims should NEVER have freedom of expression: Wahabis, Deobandis, Taleban, Hizb ut-Tahrir etc.

Likewise some born-agains and Xians should never be allowed full freedom of expression: Westboro Baptist, bigots like Falwell etc and Palin is highly questionable also.

The sad fact is that some people's 'Freedom of expression' involves killing other people, injuring them or oppressing them.

I would never support that personally.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #55 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Lemmings. Perfect analogy.

I'm sure many will not understand it, though...

Propping up one myth using another. Perfect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemming...misconceptions
http://www.wc.adfg.state.ak.us/index...=56&issue_id=6
http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/lemmings.asp
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #56 of 71
Thread Starter 

I've noticed something strange....if you are partisan then all is fine. You can be as offensive as you like, abusive, false...whatever. All ok as long as you are doing it for one specific side.

BUT - if you try to be even-handed or balanced - such as posting a pic which shows RIGHT AND LEFT leaping to their doom, if you post an opinion which shows RIGHT AND LEFT as equally stupid - then God help you.

You will be ripped to shreds.

Is interesting no?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #57 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by VoicesFromTheDust View Post

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."
~Noam Chomsky
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerald apple View Post

Freedom from bigotry,bias, hatred on minorities traits of Palin who is a born again Christian and a right wing loser.
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Chomsky is correct when he says: "If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all" BUT I would argue that we SHOULD NOT believe in it at all.
I would not want to give Hitler free expression....can anyone seriously argue it?
Racists who want to kill Muslims...they exist. They should not have freedom of expression.
Also in religion which is the most fertile source of oppression at the moment: I am nominally Muslim of a sort as you probably know but many Muslims should NEVER have freedom of expression: Wahabis, Deobandis, Taleban, Hizb ut-Tahrir etc.
Likewise some born-agains and Xians should never be allowed full freedom of expression: Westboro Baptist, bigots like Falwell etc and Palin is highly questionable also.
The sad fact is that some people's 'Freedom of expression' involves killing other people, injuring them or oppressing them.
I would never support that personally.

The following might be helpful in understanding freedom of speech/expression:
Freedom of Expression - ACLU Position Paper
Thoughts on Speech After the Arizona Tragedy
ACLU Memo Advises Congress On Protecting First Amendment While Protecting Themselves
Limitations on freedom of speech:
Chaplinsky v. State of New Hampshire , 315 U.S. 568 (1942)
New York Times Co. v. Sullivan, 376 U.S. 254 (1964)
Brandenburg v. Ohio , 395 U.S. 444 (1969)
Brandenburg test: a two-pronged test to evaluate speech acts: (1) speech can be prohibited if it is "directed at inciting or producing imminent lawless action" and (2) it is "likely to incite or produce such action."
Schenck v. United States , 249 U.S. 47 (1919)
Defines Clear & Present Danger
Dennis v. United States , 341 U.S. 494 (1951)
Rewrite of the Clear & Present Danger Test
Even if the groups you name are the first to deny the freedom of speech they still have that right even if we disagree.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #58 of 71
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Even if the groups you name are the first to deny the freedom of speech they still have that right even if we disagree.

I don't agree.

If someone's expressed opinion leads to the deaths thousands of Jews for example then I would say they should not have that right.

Further, I would say no-one else has the right to actually gamble with people's lives in this manner for a principle that makes them feel good.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #59 of 71

Sorry you missed the point. MLK quote:

Quote:
Quote:
We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as fools.

Martin Luther King Jr.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #60 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

So you equate what was allegedly said about Palin to the massacre and pogroms of the Jews in Medieval Europe where hundreds of thousands were summarily executed and exiled.

Right. Got that.

No, and I'll thank you not to put words in my mouth. I said it was an appropriate term. Speaking of which, I have heard your definition exactly one time: From you.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #61 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Sorry you missed the point. MLK quote:

I was not addressing you, or your post. I was speaking to the assertion made about your post with regards to lemmings. Surely that was obvious?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #62 of 71
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

No, and I'll thank you not to put words in my mouth. I said it was an appropriate term. Speaking of which, I have heard your definition exactly one time: From you.

What are you talking about? It doesn't make sense...you're gibbering SDW....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #63 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

What are you talking about? It doesn't make sense...you're gibbering SDW....

Look, what I'm saying is that nowhere else have I seen someone refer to the textbook definition of the term. I understand that definition. Palin clearly used it in a different context. She has a point. There are false accusations being made concerning her (and others') culpability. Many have stated that she is at least partly responsible, as are other "right wingers." Those kind of statements are libelous. They also concern a violent act, hence the term blood libel.

It's a perfect term. You just don't like it.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #64 of 71
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Look, what I'm saying is that nowhere else have I seen someone refer to the textbook definition of the term.

Well, I'm not surprised you have not seen it. Maybe you only read Right-wing sources and there's no point in them quoting the facts is there?

The term has a very, very specific meaning as I said. However, it is possible that this is not the case in the US - I don't know - but in Europe it means one thing and one thing only.

I also believe it means only one thing to US Jews too.

Quote:
I understand that definition. Palin clearly used it in a different context.

Obviously. That's not the point though is it? People who use the word 'nigger' use it often in a different context. People who use the word 'untermensch' use it in a different context also but these uses still cause controversy.

Quote:
She has a point. There are false accusations being made concerning her (and others') culpability. Many have stated that she is at least partly responsible, as are other "right wingers."

Some of the accusations are out of order I agree. I don't see Palin as responsible as such....but she is dangerous because she is stupid in the same way as Bush was. And she will appeal to stupid people (of whom there are millions and thus translate into power) and make stupid mistakes like this one. And worse.

The right-wing though may well be responsible. They exist in a culture of extreme violence and abuse...often against minorities as well as opponents. And they rejoice in it.

Quote:
Those kind of statements are libelous. They also concern a violent act, hence the term blood libel.

This is verging on the insane.

Quote:
It's a perfect term. You just don't like it.

I don't wind it...it's just a phrase.

What I find sick is when people like you think it is appropriate to use in a context where thousands of people were not systematically exterminated on the basis of their race.

Perhaps the Right will at some point lie about a certain ethnic group....perhaps they will claim that this group drinks White Christian blood. Perhaps they will then kill members of this ethnic group because of the lie they made up themselves.

Then I'll be happy to use the term myself.

But until then I will continue to be disgusted by your drawing an equivalence between those millions of deaths and Palin's situation.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #65 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Well, I'm not surprised you have not seen it. Maybe you only read Right-wing sources and there's no point in them quoting the facts is there?

The term has a very, very specific meaning as I said. However, it is possible that this is not the case in the US - I don't know - but in Europe it means one thing and one thing only.

I also believe it means only one thing to US Jews too.



Obviously. That's not the point though is it? People who use the word 'nigger' use it often in a different context. People who use the word 'untermensch' use it in a different context also but these uses still cause controversy.



Some of the accusations are out of order I agree. I don't see Palin as responsible as such....but she is dangerous because she is stupid in the same way as Bush was. And she will appeal to stupid people (of whom there are millions and thus translate into power) and make stupid mistakes like this one. And worse.

The right-wing though may well be responsible. They exist in a culture of extreme violence and abuse...often against minorities as well as opponents. And they rejoice in it.



This is verging on the insane.



I don't wind it...it's just a phrase.

What I find sick is when people like you think it is appropriate to use in a context where thousands of people were not systematically exterminated on the basis of their race.

Perhaps the Right will at some point lie about a certain ethnic group....perhaps they will claim that this group drinks White Christian blood. Perhaps they will then kill members of this ethnic group because of the lie they made up themselves.

Then I'll be happy to use the term myself.

But until then I will continue to be disgusted by your drawing an equivalence between those millions of deaths and Palin's situation.

You're just blathering bullshit so you can slam Palin. Conclusion first facts second.
post #66 of 71
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

You're just blathering bullshit so you can slam Palin. Conclusion first facts second.

Aren't you supposed to have left in a hissy fit?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #67 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Aren't you supposed to have left in a hissy fit?

Nope. What gave you that idea? Seems like the lefties are in hissy fit mode these days?
post #68 of 71
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Nope. What gave you that idea? Seems like the lefties are in hissy fit mode these days?

Wishful thinking maybe....or maybe it was someone else.

Wingers all seem like clones to me these days, can't tell most of you apart.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #69 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Wishful thinking maybe....or maybe it was someone else.

Wingers all seem like clones to me these days, can't tell most of you apart.

I'm really not much of a "winger". Your slow wit, inability to process information and over eagerness at stereotyping people causes you to use the classifications that have been prepackaged for you. 2011 may be your year to break free.
post #70 of 71
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

I'm really not much of a "winger". Your slow wit, inability to process information and over eagerness at stereotyping people causes you to use the classifications that have been prepackaged for you. 2011 may be your year to break free.

Heheh
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #71 of 71
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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