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Inside the Apple-Verizon iPhone deal: technical planning took 6-9 months

post #1 of 47
Thread Starter 
While the commercial agreement with Apple and Verizon was finalized in just a day, the technical preparations to bring the iPhone to the largest wireless carrier in the U.S. took much longer.

Verizon Communications President Lowell McAdam spoke with Bloomberg about the deal between Apple and Verizon for the iPhone, which took years to reach. He said each company agreed to trade "inside information" about each others' upcoming products and services.

Apple and Verizon also erected CDMA towers at the iPhone maker's Cupertino, Calif., campus, allowing both companies to do extensive testing with Apple's smartphone in an effort to avoid network issues. AT&T's own network issues have been a public relations concern for the company.

One of Verizon's top engineers worked at Apple's campus, helping the company learn CDMA technology, and McAdam himself even personally tested the new Verizon-compatible iPhone before it was announced on Tuesday. The phone is set to go on sale on Feb. 10, and existing Verizon customers will be able to preorder starting Feb. 3.

Negotiations between the two companies even personally involved Apple Chief Executive Steve Jobs and Verizon CEO Ivan Seidenberg. McAdam also said the lack of a Verizon logo on the new iPhone 4 was not a "major issue" for the company.

"We worked probably six or nine months on the technical side of this and saw we could make this work," McAdam said in the interview. "Then we did the commercial side. The commercial side took us a day."

The new, close partnership with Verizon has already lead to information leaks, including numerous reports on the Verizon iPhone announcement well before Tuesday's press conference. And also this week, Verizon's chief financial officer, Francis Shammo, let slip that Apple is planning a new iPad with an integrated CDMA radio that will allow the touchscreen tablet to access Verizon's network without the need for a MiFi portable hotspot.
post #2 of 47
Since it's been said that they didn't sign an exclusivity agreement, I'd like to see Sprint and T-Mobile signed on when the new iPhone is announced this summer. That would seem to be the right time.
post #3 of 47
Quote:
also erected CDMA towers at the iPhone maker's Cupertino, Calif., campus, allowing both companies to do extensive testing with Apple's smartphone in an effort to avoid network issues.

This is probably what AT&T did as well. What's the point of this? The purpose of the phone, regardless of carrier, is not just to work on Apple's campus - it's to work anywhere. Does Apple still think they can release phones without doing extensive testing in the real world? Because if they do, they're setting themselves up for another P.R. disaster if Verizon doesn't have enough bandwidth to support the users.

According to news reports, Verizon's website has already had problems. If they weren't smart enough to get more server capacity for the crush, do you really think they've expanded their network enough to support the crush of new iPhone users?
post #4 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

This is probably what AT&T did as well. What's the point of this? The purpose of the phone, regardless of carrier, is not just to work on Apple's campus - it's to work anywhere. Does Apple still think they can release phones without doing extensive testing in the real world? Because if they do, they're setting themselves up for another P.R. disaster if Verizon doesn't have enough bandwidth to support the users.

According to news reports, Verizon's website has already had problems. If they weren't smart enough to get more server capacity for the crush, do you really think they've expanded their network enough to support the crush of new iPhone users?

They need a nearby tower to test within the Apple campus at full strength. They can then adjust the signal strength as need to do more testing (going into shielded rooms, etc). Apple has already acknowledged that they do a lot of real world testing all round the place and that it carries the risk of the phone be 'stolen' or misplaced (left at a bar). Don't think that Apple doesn't do a lot of real world testing on their phones. I would be there are engineers walking amongst us with 5th gen iPhones already if not very soon.
post #5 of 47
In other news, the CDMA ipad is cancelled.

Just kidding. Apple may have told them it was OK to spill. It changes nothing, really.
post #6 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

This is probably what AT&T did as well. What's the point of this? The purpose of the phone, regardless of carrier, is not just to work on Apple's campus - it's to work anywhere. Does Apple still think they can release phones without doing extensive testing in the real world? Because if they do, they're setting themselves up for another P.R. disaster if Verizon doesn't have enough bandwidth to support the users.

According to news reports, Verizon's website has already had problems. If they weren't smart enough to get more server capacity for the crush, do you really think they've expanded their network enough to support the crush of new iPhone users?

Of course they do extensive testing. I suppose you haven't heard of the Gizmoto phone story?

But in order to do prototype testing under ideal conditions, which must be done first, they need a real tower outside of their own labs.
post #7 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

This is probably what AT&T did as well. What's the point of this? The purpose of the phone, regardless of carrier, is not just to work on Apple's campus - it's to work anywhere. Does Apple still think they can release phones without doing extensive testing in the real world? Because if they do, they're setting themselves up for another P.R. disaster if Verizon doesn't have enough bandwidth to support the users.

According to news reports, Verizon's website has already had problems. If they weren't smart enough to get more server capacity for the crush, do you really think they've expanded their network enough to support the crush of new iPhone users?

the network traffic is probably routed to preserve secrecy and through all kinds of network diagnostics devices for debugging purposes
post #8 of 47
69 months, that's a long time.
post #9 of 47
When AT&T was getting really bashed for lack of bandwidth from iPhone users they swooped-in and took over the WiFi hotspots at Starbucks, McDonalds, etc. At first they controlled free access to AT&T users with an SMS authentication method. Later they relaxed this and now you can use any device at Starbucks for free internet even Android, Palm, Symbian, laptops, etc.

Now that Verizon Wireless will have the iPhone will AT&T roll-back their WiFi hotspot policy limiting use to AT&T devices? Even though I'm an AT&T iPhone user having easy access for my laptop would be nice to continue. And even though I may be 'subsidizing' Verizon iPhone users bandwidth there, with my AT&T fees, being able to do Facetime chats with Verizon iPhone users, since FT is WiFi only, would be good.

How much does companies like Starbucks pay AT&T for providing hotspots? Maybe their fees will go up?
post #10 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

McAdam also said the lack of a Verizon logo on the new iPhone 4 was not a "major issue" for the company.

Verizon is one of the most notorious in terms of crippling phones and plastering their junk all over phones. McAdam I'm sure is downplaying this to save face.

It's nice to know that Verizon is finally someone else's lapdog for a change. McAdam probably had to bite his lower-lip numerous times due be being told "No" by Jobs / Apple in terms of iPhone deals.

In the end, this is very exciting times for Apple the the smartphone industry. I'm eagerly waiting to see about CDMA use in China / India. This is going to be huge for Apple and AAPL!
post #11 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLoveStuff View Post

69 months, that's a long time.

But a great position for them to be in.
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post #12 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

This is probably what AT&T did as well. What's the point of this? The purpose of the phone, regardless of carrier, is not just to work on Apple's campus - it's to work anywhere. Does Apple still think they can release phones without doing extensive testing in the real world? Because if they do, they're setting themselves up for another P.R. disaster if Verizon doesn't have enough bandwidth to support the users.

Apple does extensive field testing of its handsets in the SF Bay Area.

As a matter of fact, one Apple engineer forgot his prototype iPhone 4 in a Redwood City beer garden. This unit eventually made it to the editor of Gizmodo and the device was revealed several months before it was released.

Naturally, Verizon has scads of data about its entire network, dropped calls, data usage by handset, etc. Apple doesn't have to test the phone everywhere.

Also remember that the GSM iPhone works fine in other markets. AT&T's problems are entirely theirs.
post #13 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

While the commercial agreement with Apple and Verizon was finalized in just a day, the technical preparations to bring the iPhone to the largest wireless carrier in the U.S. took much longer.

Apple: "Here are our terms, if you dont like it well go to Sprint and T-Mobile.
Verizon: Where do I sign?


Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Since it's been said that they didn't sign an exclusivity agreement, I'd like to see Sprint and T-Mobile signed on when the new iPhone is announced this summer. That would seem to be the right time.

Im not expecting to see Sprint or T-Mobile USA come aboard until at least next year. I think the increased demand of the GSM iPhone as well as the new CDMA iPhone on Verizon will keep their production at full tilt as it is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Of course they do extensive testing. I suppose you haven't heard of the Gizmoto phone story?

But in order to do prototype testing under ideal conditions, which must be done first, they need a real tower outside of their own labs.

I would think theyd change up their policy for real world testing. I can see some vehicles being outfitted with testers driving around for 8 hours a day. Keeping the device in the vehicle and always having someone in the vehicle.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkKnot View Post

When AT&T was getting really bashed for lack of bandwidth from iPhone users they swooped-in and took over the WiFi hotspots at Starbucks, McDonalds, etc. At first they controlled free access to AT&T users with an SMS authentication method. Later they relaxed this and now you can use any device at Starbucks for free internet even Android, Palm, Symbian, laptops, etc.

Now that Verizon Wireless will have the iPhone will AT&T roll-back their WiFi hotspot policy limiting use to AT&T devices? Even though I'm an AT&T iPhone user having easy access for my laptop would be nice to continue. And even though I may be 'subsidizing' Verizon iPhone users bandwidth there, with my AT&T fees, being able to do Facetime chats with Verizon iPhone users, since FT is WiFi only, would be good.

How much does companies like Starbucks pay AT&T for providing hotspots? Maybe their fees will go up?

I think that service is pretty cheap that AT&T will want to maintain them. I also believe that Starbucks is the one that wanted the free WiFi for customers to encourage sales, which dropped off sharply after the recession and McDonalds offered new coffee options. Im not sure if either or both are causes for Starbucks decline in profits.
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post #14 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Negotiations between the two companies even personally involved Apple Chief Executive Steve Jobs and Verizon CEO Ivan Seidenberg. McAdam also said the lack of a Verizon logo on the new iPhone 4 was not a "major issue" for the company.

BS. Technological Planning - 9 moths. Business Side 1 day. Logo not on the phone - the rest of the 2 year negotiations.
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post #15 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

This is probably what AT&T did as well. What's the point of this? The purpose of the phone, regardless of carrier, is not just to work on Apple's campus - it's to work anywhere. Does Apple still think they can release phones without doing extensive testing in the real world? Because if they do, they're setting themselves up for another P.R. disaster if Verizon doesn't have enough bandwidth to support the users.

According to news reports, Verizon's website has already had problems. If they weren't smart enough to get more server capacity for the crush, do you really think they've expanded their network enough to support the crush of new iPhone users?

No offence, but this is nonsense. You don't know what kind of testing is required, and you don't know what the specific failures of AT&T's network were all about either but your fine casting aspersions freely on Apple and whomever else in spite of it.

To say that they "better have done their testing" because there will be a disaster if "enough bandwidth" isn't there, is a completely nonsensical thing to say. That's like saying "Ford better have tested the fuel economy on that car before they release it because if they go on the road and the brakes all start failing they'll have hell to pay." Then implying they have network problems "already," because their website is being hit? WTF? I mean seriously, what the heck are you talking about?

1) Apple *does* do network testing in the real world
2) There is no way this can inform them as to whether Verizon has the bandwidth or not
3) You're blaming *Apple* (instead of the carrier) for something they have *no* control over
post #16 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

No offence, but this is nonsense. You don't know what kind of testing is required, and you don't know what the specific failures of AT&T's network were all about either but your fine casting aspersions freely on Apple and whomever else in spite of it.

To say that they "better have done their testing" because there will be a disaster if "enough bandwidth" isn't there, is a completely nonsensical thing to say. That's like saying "Ford better have tested the fuel economy on that car before they release it because if they go on the road and the brakes all start failing they'll have hell to pay." Then implying they have network problems "already," because their website is being hit? WTF? I mean seriously, what the heck are you talking about?

1) Apple *does* do network testing in the real world
2) There is no way this can inform them as to whether Verizon has the bandwidth or not
3) You're blaming *Apple* (instead of the carrier) for something they have *no* control over

What other mobile handset vendor has shown us their testing facility? Which other mobile handset vendor can put that much emphasis into one CDMA or GSM handset per year? They all have dozens of new phones that all have to be tested, so why would we even think Apple is doing less testing than other mobile handset vendors per model type?

Is it all from the silly “antenna-gate”? One thing to note is that AnandTech already put the Verizon iPhone in Field-Test mode and found that the ‘death grip” is equvalant to the iPhone 4 GSM. So much for Apple redesigning a faulty antenna design. \


PS: Not disagreeing with anything you said. Your post got me thinking, hence all the questions.
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post #17 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Apple: "Here are our terms, if you dont like it well go to Sprint and T-Mobile.
Verizon: Where do I sign?

Absolutely. You know Verizon went into this with little negotiating power.



Quote:
Im not expecting to see Sprint or T-Mobile USA come aboard until at least next year. I think the increased demand of the GSM iPhone as well as the new CDMA iPhone on Verizon will keep their production at full tilt as it is.

I agree. Apple has not been able to keep up with launch demand for AT&T. It'll be interesting to see how they handle both AT&T and Verizon.
post #18 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

What other mobile handset vendor has shown us their testing facility? Which other mobile handset vendor can put that much emphasis into one CDMA or GSM handset per year? They all have dozens of new phones that all have to be tested, so why would we even think Apple is doing less testing than other mobile handset vendors per model type?

Is it all from the silly antenna-gate? One thing to note is that AnandTech already put the Verizon iPhone in Field-Test mode and found that the death grip is equvalant to the iPhone 4 GSM. So much for Apple redesigning a faulty antenna design. \

We should point out to all noobs here that ALL mobile phones have the same or similar death grip possibilities before you are quoted out of context as being the source of the new "Verizon iPhone antenna-gate.
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post #19 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

BS. Technological Planning - 9 moths. Business Side 1 day. Logo not on the phone - the rest of the 2 year negotiations.

I can believe the 1 day part ...

SJ :" Here is the deal, take it or leave it."
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post #20 of 47
Why do you think it was BS? Verizon would have to have some terrible negotiators if they took more than one day to concede to Apple everything it wanted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

BS. Technological Planning - 9 moths. Business Side 1 day. Logo not on the phone - the rest of the 2 year negotiations.
post #21 of 47
Quote:
We worked probably six or nine months...

Reminds me of the Steven Wright joke where he starts, "About two years ago...no, wait, it was last night."
post #22 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The new, close partnership with Verizon has already lead to information leaks, including numerous reports on the Verizon iPhone announcement well before Tuesday's press conference. And also this week, Verizon's chief financial officer, Francis Shammo, let slip that Apple is planning a new iPad with an integrated CDMA radio that will allow the touchscreen tablet to access Verizon's network without the need for a MiFi portable hotspot.

Apple is gonna have to get used to that! Sign all the NDA's you want, when you have to have the same "secret" amongst more and more sources (Taiwan production plants) and people (Big Red's CFO), word is bound to slip out whether intentionally or not.

I'm sure that engineer for Apple testing the iPhone 4 was told "Not to lose your phone!"
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post #23 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

While the commercial agreement with Apple and Verizon was finalized in just a day, the technical preparations to bring the iPhone to the largest wireless carrier in the U.S. took much longer.

Really? Wow, who would have guessed that.

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post #24 of 47
<they're setting themselves up for another P.R. disaster if Verizon doesn't have enough bandwidth to support the users.>

disaster is a pretty strong word for a company that has invented a new paradigm in mobile and is getting paid for it every day.

verizon engineers are probably getting an education from apple engineers that they never could envision.
post #25 of 47
what they did not have the "can you hear me now" guy walking around making sure it works everywhere and you get data everywhere... Oh it is doomed...


I think the Engineer over simplify it only took one day for the commercial terms. I bet the commercial terms were in discussion long before the first VZ engineer ever was told to go visit apple. VZ T&C are nightmare, I have seen them, they are horrible to deal with and you can pretty much assume that Apple would not agree to a single one of them.

The fact they work out the technical issue in 6 to 9 month has more to say about Apple then VZ. It take VZ 6 to 9 months for them to simply approve the use of any phone on their network even when it all works the first time.
post #26 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


Is it all from the silly antenna-gate? One thing to note is that AnandTech already put the Verizon iPhone in Field-Test mode and found that the death grip is equvalant to the iPhone 4 GSM. So much for Apple redesigning a faulty antenna design. \

It's interesting that on another site, they tried that, and didn't get the same results. But, -85 db isn't a big deal. It's when you get down to -110 that a real problem crops up. So we really need to know the field strength at the testing site for it to be of any value.
post #27 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

what they did not have the "can you hear me now" guy walking around making sure it works everywhere and you get data everywhere... Oh it is doomed...


I think the Engineer over simplify it only took one day for the commercial terms. I bet the commercial terms were in discussion long before the first VZ engineer ever was told to go visit apple.

The fact they work out the technical issue in 6 to 9 month has more to say about Apple then VZ. It take VZ 6 to 9 months for them to simply approve the use of any phone on their network even when it all works the first time.

I don't remember if it was Apple or Verizon who said it at the news conference, but they said that they were working together since 2008.
post #28 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

Reminds me of the Steven Wright joke where he starts, "About two years ago...no, wait, it was last night."

Love Steven Wright humor...

"Four years ago... No, it was yesterday."

"I was trying to daydream, but my mind kept wandering."

"I can levitate birds. No one cares."

"I owed my friend George $25. For about three weeks I owed it to him. The whole time I had the money on me -- he didn't know it. Walking through New York City, 2:30 in the morning and got held up. The robber said, "Gimme all your money." I said, "Wait a minute." I said, "George, here's the 25 dollars I owe you." Then the thief took a thousand dollars out of his own money and he gave it to George. At gunpoint he made me borrow a thousand dollars from George."

"I like to reminisce with people I don't know. Granted, it takes longer."

"Whenever I think about the past, it just brings back so many memories."

"I was sad because I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet. So I said, "Got any shoes you're not using?"

"Sponges grow in the ocean. That just kills me. I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be if that didn't happen."

"I filled out an application that said, "In Case Of Emergency Notify ________". I wrote "Doctor"... What's my MOTHER going to do?"

"(Referring to a glass of water I mixed this myself. Two parts H, one part O. I don't trust anybody!"

"Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before."

"I bought some powdered water, but I don't know what to add to it."

"There's a fine line between fishing and standing on the shore looking like an idiot."

"I bought my brother some gift-wrap for Christmas. I took it to the Gift Wrap Department and told them to wrap it, but in a different print so he would know when to stop unwrapping. "

"Hermits have no peer pressure."

"If you were going to shoot a mime, would you use a silencer?"

"What do batteries run on?"

"After they make styrofoam, what do they ship it in?"

"It doesn't matter what temperature the room is, it's always room temperature."

"My grandfather invented Cliff's Notes. It all started back in 1912... Well, to make a long story short ..."

"I bought a self-learning record to learn Spanish. I turned it on and went to sleep; the record got stuck. The next day I could only stutter in Spanish."

"When I have a kid, I want to buy one of those strollers for twins. Then put the kid in and run around, looking frantic. When he gets older, I'd tell him he used to have a brother, but he didn't obey."

"What's another word for Thesaurus?"

"I went to a general store. They wouldn't let me buy anything specifically."

'One time I went to a drive-in in a taxi cab. The movie cost me $95."

"I was arrested for selling illegal-sized paper."

"I have an answering machine in my car. It says, "I'm home now. But leave a message and I'll call when I'm out."

"I replaced the headlights in my car with strobe lights, so it looks like I'm the only one moving."

"Doing a little work around the house. I put fake brick wallpaper over a real brick wall, just so I'd be the only one who knew. People come over and I'm gonna say, "Go ahead, touch it... It feels real.""

"I got an answering machine for my phone. Now when I'm not home and somebody calls me up, they hear a recording of a busy signal. I like to leave messages before the beep."

"Last week I bought a new phone. I took it out of the box, hooked it up to the wall... Pressed redial. The phone had a nervous breakdown."

"I went to the museum where they had all the heads and arms from the statues that are in all the other museums."

"There was a power outage at a department store yesterday. Twenty people were trapped on the escalators."

"I have two very rare photographs. One is a picture of Houdini locking his keys in his car. The other is a rare photograph of Norman Rockwell beating up a child."

"I bought a dog the other day... I named him Stay. It's fun to call him... "Come here, Stay! Come here, Stay!" He went insane."

"My neighbor has a circular driveway... He can't get out."

"I used to work in a fire hydrant factory. You couldn't park anywhere near the place."

"I worked as a lumberjack for a lumber company. All of the trees were just 10 feet high and 1/4 inch thick. We made paneling. "

"I saw a sign at a gas station. It said "Help Wanted." There was another sign below it that said "Self Service." So I hired myself. Then I made myself the boss. I gave myself a raise. I paid myself. Then I quit."

"I own the erasers for all the miniature golf pencils."

"A friend of mine is into Voodoo Acupuncture. You don't have to go. You'll just be walking down the street, and... Ooooohhhhhh, that's much better..."

"I invented the cordless extension cord."

"There's a pizza place near where I live that sells only slices. In the back you can see a guy tossing a triangle in the air."

"I'm writing an unauthorized autobiography."

"I'm writing a book. I've got the page numbers done, so now I just have to fill in the rest."

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post #29 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

In other news, the CDMA ipad is cancelled.

Just kidding. Apple may have told them it was OK to spill. It changes nothing, really.

I agree that nothing is changed. This was the next logical step anyway.
post #30 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

Love Steven Wright humor...

Very funny. I've never seen him.
post #31 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I would think they’d change up their policy for real world testing. I can see some vehicles being outfitted with testers driving around for 8 hours a day. Keeping the device in the vehicle and always having someone in the vehicle.

But that's not real-world testing.

Real-world testing is taking your iPhone to a baseball game, a hockey arena, your kid's birthday party at the beach boardwalk, a noisy bar, a rock show at the Fillmore, a beer garden, a BART train, a VTA bus, a ski resort, a hiking trail, etc. Talk, take pictures, shoot video, send texts, watch streaming video, send streaming video.

You need a myriad of environments (light, sound, temperature, etc.) for real-world testing.

Apple accepts the risks of real-world testing. They have to if they're going to produce a handset that many people will want to buy.
post #32 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

Verizon is one of the most notorious in terms of crippling phones and plastering their junk all over phones. McAdam I'm sure is downplaying this to save face.

It's nice to know that Verizon is finally someone else's lapdog for a change. McAdam probably had to bite his lower-lip numerous times due be being told "No" by Jobs / Apple in terms of iPhone deals.

In the end, this is very exciting times for Apple the the smartphone industry. I'm eagerly waiting to see about CDMA use in China / India. This is going to be huge for Apple and AAPL!

I'm still trying to figure out what concessions Apple made. I am sure they made some beyond the obvious of not requiring Verizon to make the network upgrades to support concurrent voice and data. One possibility is that they allowed Verizon to have their own Apple-approved marketing campaign. Building on this, Apple may even be providing co-op advertising funds.

It is still nice (and significant) that the VeriPhone is essentially "unmolested" as addabox puts it.
post #33 of 47
My guess is that Apple made no concessions to Verizon Wireless.

When Apple tossed the terms on the table, they probably said, "They're the same terms that all our other carriers around the world got. Oh yeah, we might stop by at Sprint and T-Mobile USA."

Verizon replied, "Where do we sign?"

solipsism pointed this out earlier.
post #34 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Very funny. I've never seen him.

Enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1HYUyhujl4

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post #35 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

This is probably what AT&T did as well. What's the point of this? The purpose of the phone, regardless of carrier, is not just to work on Apple's campus - it's to work anywhere. Does Apple still think they can release phones without doing extensive testing in the real world? Because if they do, they're setting themselves up for another P.R. disaster if Verizon doesn't have enough bandwidth to support the users.

Apple does extensive testing both off campus and on campus. The "lost" iPhone should highlight that.

As for Verizon and bandwidth that will be a problem when more and more users switch to smart phones no matter what the brand. A poor network however does not reflect on Apple but rather the carrier. As it is the noise about AT&T and poor performance is just that, AT&T has been outstanding for me. The few places AT&T has issues have been in cities that are Democratic strong holds which should tell you something.
Quote:

According to news reports, Verizon's website has already had problems. If they weren't smart enough to get more server capacity for the crush, do you really think they've expanded their network enough to support the crush of new iPhone users?

Honestly I don't but does that surprise anybody? Really I expect the same sorts of issues AT&T had. You learn by doing and when the crush comes you learn how good your planing was.

In a way this is no different than when a natural disaster strikes. You can plan all you want but you really don't know for sure how well the systems you have developed will work until you use them. Of course lots of people (democrats mostly) don't understand this expecting instant relief from the government.
post #36 of 47
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Originally Posted by ThinkKnot View Post

When AT&T was getting really bashed for lack of bandwidth from iPhone users they swooped-in and took over the WiFi hotspots at Starbucks, McDonalds, etc. At first they controlled free access to AT&T users with an SMS authentication method. Later they relaxed this and now you can use any device at Starbucks for free internet even Android, Palm, Symbian, laptops, etc.

Now that Verizon Wireless will have the iPhone will AT&T roll-back their WiFi hotspot policy limiting use to AT&T devices? Even though I'm an AT&T iPhone user having easy access for my laptop would be nice to continue. And even though I may be 'subsidizing' Verizon iPhone users bandwidth there, with my AT&T fees, being able to do Facetime chats with Verizon iPhone users, since FT is WiFi only, would be good.

How much does companies like Starbucks pay AT&T for providing hotspots? Maybe their fees will go up?

What does AT&T's policies with respect to WiFi hotspots have to do with Verizon? Please explain.
post #37 of 47
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Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

Verizon is one of the most notorious in terms of crippling phones and plastering their junk all over phones. McAdam I'm sure is downplaying this to save face.

My thoughts exactly! If it wasn't such a big deal, why do all their other phones have crapware, Verizon logos and why did they even kick google off of Android?

Ha! It's a good day for consumers indeed - Verizon wireless is stuff back into the appropriate hole; a shuffler of bits.

So much for the "Apple needing Verizon" arguments
post #38 of 47
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Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It's interesting that on another site, they tried that, and didn't get the same results. But, -85 db isn't a big deal. It's when you get down to -110 that a real problem crops up. So we really need to know the field strength at the testing site for it to be of any value.

Signal strength is certainly a factor but so are many other things. The fact is everything around an antenna will have so impact on how it radiates and receives. The type of building impact transmissions, the person holding the device impacts antenna performance, even the orientation of the device impacts performance.

Maybe it is the cable generation that has zero appreciation for RF communications, but any body that has ever set up a TV antenna, or tried to grab a remote signal on an AM radio would understand this. If you are into HAM radio or even CB usage you have even more experience with the sometimes weirdness of RF communications. Unfortunately people expect a cell phone to work like a land line and it just isn't possible.

IPhone 4 does have a problem with that gap but people need to come to grips with the idea that they have some responsibility to get the device to work correctly. Even then the phone has one of the best performing RF front ends going so it takes a tiny bit more effort in exchange for leading edge performance.
post #39 of 47
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Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Very funny. I've never seen him.

His girlfriend wanted an expensive dinner so he took her to the airport for a sandwich...

His dry humor combined with the delivery is a treat - I really enjoy his comedy.
post #40 of 47
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Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post

<they're setting themselves up for another P.R. disaster if Verizon doesn't have enough bandwidth to support the users.>

disaster is a pretty strong word for a company that has invented a new paradigm in mobile and is getting paid for it every day.

verizon engineers are probably getting an education from apple engineers that they never could envision.

Actually, this is not correct. Apple was very new to network utilization when they first released the iPhone. The iPhone was not efficient and used more network resources than needed. AT&T helped Apple correct this. I imagine Verizon helped Apple even further.

Those that have used Apple's enterprise products know that Apple is very new to things outside of the consumer market. This includes the network side of things. The good thing is that they learn from their mistakes and try to improve. It takes time, but it happens.
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