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Gartner: Apple takes 9.7% share in Q4, grows Mac sales by 23% - Page 2

post #41 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by DED

Gartner was unique in also attempting to blame the contracting US PC market on "other consumer electronic (CE) devices, such as game consoles," despite the fact that 2010 marked a year of notably sluggish games sales that prompted aggressive cuts in hardware prices that still did little to boost game console hardware sales.

While I agree that consoles are an unlikely cause, suggesting that the game console market was sluggish in 2010 based on data from June alone is dumb. Really, really dumb and wrong.

I'm sure that everyone is well aware that most consoles are sold in the final three months of the year. This was especially true this year as Microsoft released Kinect in the run-up to Christmas and Sony released Move.

In fact, Microsoft nearly doubled its hardware sales in the US for 2010 compared to 2009. To say that sales were sluggish is totally incorrect.
post #42 of 68
You know it, I know it, the American people know it and the XServe knows it.

Steve's going "black and white" on us again -- no room for gray (or gray matter, for that matter).

It's all Mobile now; iOS. Yep, the only game in town. "Scalability"? What's that again? Is it relevant anymore? Are there big computers and little computers? Are there Supercomputers and Mainframes and Servers and Server Farms and Workstations and Personal Computers AND Mobile devices and their Cloud?"

Maaaaaaaaaybe he'll keep a laptop or two around; even call them "Macs," but they'll be running iOS.

He compared the venerable desktop computer to a "truck." When he really wanted to say "horse and buggy."

Just like he feigned that the Blu-ray licensing was a "bag of hurt." Well his bag of hurt licensing terms have changed very favorably for PC makers recently -- that's why you're finally seeing more and more PCs and laptops with Blu-ray.

So, Steve needs a new alibi. The truth he's hiding is that he wants to kill optical media in all its forms, from the CD to the Holographic Versatile Disc.

He'd really like to push the dynamite plunger on every single Blockbuster store still peddling DVDs -- GOD forbid! And blow up every music store that sells music on CDs.

All is to be obtained electronically now (translation: iTunes), and wirelessly, if possible. "OK FINE! i'll stick a mini USB connector on the iPad 2, but I won't like it, and it will be deprecated as fast as possible. This feels just like when I gave in on the "hockey puck' mouse! (God, I loved that little guy [sniff]."

We'll be lucky if we get a Mac Pro refresh in two years -- ACTUALLY, we'll be lucky if we get a Mac Pro refresh PERIOD!

Steve will start complaining about how many "Gils" the Mac committed today at One Infinite Loop, and then make the Mac and Mac OS X team all feel like skunks at a picnic. No Ping Pong tables, and then no air conditioning -- Oh, and no budget.

With Apple selling 2 million Macs every three months, Steve must be saying, "OH, NO!"

To him the Mac is the new Microsoft -- or Google.

Enjoy your Macs and Mac OS X and the perfunctory Mac App Store for as long as you can, because a Shakespearean demise is planned for the Mac -- so long as you can't walk or drive around with a Mac Pro under your arm -- running and talking to the Cloud.

post #43 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by REC View Post

I'm interested in hearing from people who would claim that the iPad is not a PC. I'd like to know how exactly you can say it isn't.

PC stands for Personal Computer. How is the iPad not a Personal Computer? It is perhaps one of the most personal computers ever made!

Under your definition, my watch is a PC. Think about it a little, if you can.

What about phones?
What about Pocket PC?
What about Palms?
What about Calculators?
post #44 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by phalanx View Post

Under your definition, my watch is a PC. Think about it a little, if you can.

What about phones?
What about Pocket PC?
What about Palms?
What about Calculators?

Actually most of those things do meet the broad definition of a Personal Computer. Just because you don't agree with it does not make it so.

Sent from my iPad
post #45 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel001 View Post

Appleinsider, iPads are not PCs so quit bitching about it. I'm sure it would improve the value of your Apple stock if the numbers were reported differently, but you're doing fine as it is.

My initial reaction is to agree with you... But if you really think about it, why isn't the iPad a PC? I would say it doesn't count, because you can't have just an iPad. You need a "real" PC as a primary computer. I think that's true of netbooks too, though that is less definite. For the vast majority of users, a netbook isn't going to cut it as a primary computer. I say if you include one, you should include both, and vice-versa.
15" G4 Powerbook, 13" White Macbook, Apple TV 2g, iPod Touch 2g
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15" G4 Powerbook, 13" White Macbook, Apple TV 2g, iPod Touch 2g
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post #46 of 68
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post #47 of 68
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post #48 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by REC View Post

I'm interested in hearing from people who would claim that the iPad is not a PC. I'd like to know how exactly you can say it isn't.

PC stands for Personal Computer. How is the iPad not a Personal Computer? It is perhaps one of the most personal computers ever made!

Can I get rid of all of my computers and just go buy an iPad and take it out of the box? No it needs a computer with iTunes to do many things, including some simple things.

http://discussions.apple.com/thread....art=0&tstart=0

I cant plug in hardly any device that I can plug into my computer. I cant install another OS on a iPad. I can do OS or firmware updates on a iPad without a computer.

The list goes on....
post #49 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by defenderjarvis View Post

You know it, I know it, the American people know it and the XServe knows it.

Steve's going "black and white" on us again -- no room for gray (or gray matter, for that matter).

It's all Mobile now; iOS. Yep, the only game in town. "Scalability"? What's that again? Is it relevant anymore? Are there big computers and little computers? Are there Supercomputers and Mainframes and Servers and Server Farms and Workstations and Personal Computers AND Mobile devices and their Cloud?"

Maaaaaaaaaybe he'll keep a laptop or two around; even call them "Macs," but they'll be running iOS.

He compared the venerable desktop computer to a "truck." When he really wanted to say "horse and buggy."

Just like he feigned that the Blu-ray licensing was a "bag of hurt." Well his bag of hurt licensing terms have changed very favorably for PC makers recently -- that's why you're finally seeing more and more PCs and laptops with Blu-ray.

So, Steve needs a new alibi. The truth he's hiding is that he wants to kill optical media in all its forms, from the CD to the Holographic Versatile Disc.

He'd really like to push the dynamite plunger on every single Blockbuster store still peddling DVDs -- GOD forbid! And blow up every music store that sells music on CDs.

All is to be obtained electronically now (translation: iTunes), and wirelessly, if possible. "OK FINE! i'll stick a mini USB connector on the iPad 2, but I won't like it, and it will be deprecated as fast as possible. This feels just like when I gave in on the "hockey puck' mouse! (God, I loved that little guy [sniff]."

We'll be lucky if we get a Mac Pro refresh in two years -- ACTUALLY, we'll be lucky if we get a Mac Pro refresh PERIOD!

Steve will start complaining about how many "Gils" the Mac committed today at One Infinite Loop, and then make the Mac and Mac OS X team all feel like skunks at a picnic. No Ping Pong tables, and then no air conditioning -- Oh, and no budget.

With Apple selling 2 million Macs every three months, Steve must be saying, "OH, NO!"

To him the Mac is the new Microsoft -- or Google.

Enjoy your Macs and Mac OS X and the perfunctory Mac App Store for as long as you can, because a Shakespearean demise is planned for the Mac -- so long as you can't walk or drive around with a Mac Pro under your arm -- running and talking to the Cloud.




^^ retarded. Everything you implied was bad sounds pretty good. Would anybody care if blockbusters and optical drives went the way of the buffalo? Give me a Mac pro that is portable enough to carry and walk around with (all the while receiving more software support then ever before) and I'll pay you a premium and walk around with it.

I think you will be very easy to satisfy in the future. Just simply set your 12 core ipad 'inside' your Macpro's case. Problem solved.

Also, don't forget to think inside the box always. Just keep refining that horse and buggy you still drive around.
post #50 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by poke View Post

You could have said the same thing about laptops when they were introduced. The only real factors I can think of that distinguish iPads from PCs are that file management is inconvenient on the iPad and you still need to connect it to a PC for updates. Otherwise it's just an arbitrary distinction. If iPad sales are impacting PC sales then they're probably fulfilling the same role.

I dont see any proof PC sales were impacted by the iPad. PC sales at the end of 2009 were predicted to grow 12% in 2010 Gartner, they grew 13.8% according to Gartner. They went from 300 million in 2009 to 350 million in 2010.

Can you get rid of your computer and use nothing but an iPad?
post #51 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

Can I get rid of all of my computers and just go buy an iPad and take it out of the box? No it needs a computer with iTunes to do many things, including some simple things.

http://discussions.apple.com/thread....art=0&tstart=0

I cant plug in hardly any device that I can plug into my computer. I cant install another OS on a iPad. I can do OS or firmware updates on a iPad without a computer.

The list goes on....

I'm surprised to learn that the definition of "real computer" includes "ability to install multiple operating systems" and "some list of ports."
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #52 of 68
Can you run your computer without the internet? Can you update many of your software titles? Can you get OS updates? Can you exchange data with other computers at some distance without having to go to extraordinary lengths? Are there not entire areas of basic, taken for granted functionality (email, browser, Facebook, the entire suite of Google services) that actually don't work, at all, without internet access?

So why is it having the necessary "other computer" be a server a thousand miles away instead of the Mac on your desk magically fail to disqualify your computer from being a real computer?

You can't really run any modern computer without other computers, except as a crippled, diminished shadow of what we think of as modern computing. Getting all exercised by the iPad's dreadful reliance on another computer is simply misdirection, and misdirection that very obviously is going to become more and more tortured as Apple adds functionality.

I like that the same people making dire warnings about the demise of OS X are bitching about iOS relying on same. I suppose Apple will shortly kill the former and render the latter completely unusable, in an historic act of corporate suicide.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #53 of 68
I wouldn't class the iPad as a pc based on the fact it has artificial restrictions to determin its use. E.g You can't write your own apps and distribute them freely.

Because of this its different to a pc. In the same way an Xbox or Playstation arnt pcs despite the technical similarities.

A windows 7 based tablet however would be a pc as it has the same functionality as a pc.
post #54 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Let's take a poll:

How many here believe there will be a Mac OS XI?

Yes there will but its not going to be hugely important in apples future
post #55 of 68
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post #56 of 68
How is it people still can’t understand the difference between a technical, marketing, colloquial and idiomatic definitions? Do these same people also berate others who refer to salting ice as melting the ice and other such examples? \
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #57 of 68
The distinction is clear. All Personal Computers today share a common characteristic: You can program a PC to perform a general purpose function of your own choosing without restrictions from the vendor. The PC is your computer to do as you wish.

The iPad fails by this measure. Apple's walled garden of applications is antithetical to the spirit of a general purpose computer. Any application you write for iPad may be denied by Apple.

Windows, OS X, Linux, Android...none of these have any vendor restrictions.

Moreover, all Web-enabled PCs have no vendor restrictions with regards to what Web content you may access. Of course, I'm referring to Adobe Flash.

Even more insane, iPad does not allow you to view QuickTime streaming video over RTSP, Apple's own proprietary protocol!

When it comes to the iPad, you can throw "general purpose" right out the window. It is not a PC.
post #58 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by reng2011 View Post

The distinction is clear. All Personal Computers today share a common characteristic: You can program a PC to perform a general purpose function of your own choosing without restrictions from the vendor. The PC is your computer to do as you wish.

The iPad fails by this measure. Apple's walled garden of applications is antithetical to the spirit of a general purpose computer. Any application you write for iPad may be denied by Apple.

Windows, OS X, Linux, Android...none of these have any vendor restrictions.

Moreover, all Web-enabled PCs have no vendor restrictions with regards to what Web content you may access. Of course, I'm referring to Adobe Flash.

Even more insane, iPad does not allow you to view QuickTime streaming video over RTSP, Apple's own proprietary protocol!

When it comes to the iPad, you can throw "general purpose" right out the window. It is not a PC.

Why not just declare that the definition of a PC is "anything not built by the evil Apple" and be done with it?

Although I do find the constant procession of "definitions" that bend over backwards to claim criteria for excluding the iPad to be somewhat entertaining. I submit that a PC must not have a 9.7" touch screen.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #59 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Why not just declare that the definition of a PC is "anything not built by the evil Apple" and be done with it?

Apple is not evil. In fact, I'm planning to buy a 27" iMac later this year to replace my Windows 7 machine. It's a great PC.
post #60 of 68
Wonderful, post. I loved that you wrote about this. It is very much informative. I am really impress your post.
post #61 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by reng2011 View Post

Apple is not evil. In fact, I'm planning to buy a 27" iMac later this year to replace my Windows 7 machine. It's a great PC.

Love the iMacs. I actually had an original bondi blue 233mhz G3 model back then. After some machines inbetween, finally got another one in late 2006, the fabled original 24" C2D 2.16ghz model. Neither survived through the years but really don't regret either of them, good machines for their time.

But I'd still say the iPad is a computer.

Just because you can't currently write your own code on it (are you sure about this? You can create HTML and do word processing) doesn't mean someone won't eventually create the app for it. If you say its not a PC because Apple restricts that, well that's highly subjective. I could jailbreak it, write a coding app and use the iPad to write more code... is it now a PC? Is the difference as to what makes a PC, in your mind, based on what the OS manufacturer allows you to do?

By that definition, one could cherry pick almost any OS feature and say 'not having this feature means its not a PC'. At one point Windows didn't have many of the features it has today, does that mean that a Windows 2.0 based 386 PC is not a real PC? I could choose to say that because it didn't have multitasking because of software limits, it was not a real PC.
post #62 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by REC View Post

Wikipedia defines the iPad as a PC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_computer

"A personal computer (PC) is any general-purpose computer whose size, capabilities, and original sales price make it useful for individuals, and which is intended to be operated directly by an end-user with no intervening computer operator. PCs include any type of computer that is used in a "personal" manner."

and

"A personal computer may be a desktop computer, a laptop, a tablet PC, or a handheld PC"

Good enough for me.

Steve Ballmer himself called it a PC. And if that's not definitive, I don't know what else is!

http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...d-is-a-pc.aspx
post #63 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

I dont see any proof PC sales were impacted by the iPad. PC sales at the end of 2009 were predicted to grow 12% in 2010 Gartner, they grew 13.8% according to Gartner. They went from 300 million in 2009 to 350 million in 2010.

Can you get rid of your computer and use nothing but an iPad?

Your numbers are deceptive. As you can see from the articles posted below, sales were strong early in the year, but slowed down dramatically as the year went on. Finally, it dropped 6.6% the last quarter in the USA (while Mac Sales were up 23% YOY).

Reasons given for the slowing of PC sales during the year is the iPad, as there were really no tablets around other than the Samsung for the past 2.5 months.

http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/dat...4-Analysts.htm

http://www.zdnet.co.uk/blogs/jacks-b...ough-10021485/

A PC isn't defined by whether is needs to be hooked into something else for a few uses.

But, really, what it's called is irrelevant. Apple will sell between 25 and 40 million next year, and if it defines its own category, that's fine too.
post #64 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

I wouldn't class the iPad as a pc based on the fact it has artificial restrictions to determin its use. E.g You can't write your own apps and distribute them freely.

Because of this its different to a pc. In the same way an Xbox or Playstation arnt pcs despite the technical similarities.

A windows 7 based tablet however would be a pc as it has the same functionality as a pc.

You can write your own apps and distribute them freely. Apple doesn't charge for free apps.

Really, you're making things up here. Even if what you said were true, it would have nothing to do with what a computer is. Could anyone write apps for an IBM mainframe, and distribute them freely. Well, no. Is it a computer? Well, yes.
post #65 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by reng2011 View Post

The distinction is clear. All Personal Computers today share a common characteristic: You can program a PC to perform a general purpose function of your own choosing without restrictions from the vendor. The PC is your computer to do as you wish.

The iPad fails by this measure. Apple's walled garden of applications is antithetical to the spirit of a general purpose computer. Any application you write for iPad may be denied by Apple.

Windows, OS X, Linux, Android...none of these have any vendor restrictions.

Moreover, all Web-enabled PCs have no vendor restrictions with regards to what Web content you may access. Of course, I'm referring to Adobe Flash.

Even more insane, iPad does not allow you to view QuickTime streaming video over RTSP, Apple's own proprietary protocol!

When it comes to the iPad, you can throw "general purpose" right out the window. It is not a PC.

You are so wrong on so many levels. What you are saying isn't even logical, besides not being correct.
post #66 of 68
This story seemed to be written with an axe to grind.

These studies arent saying that the iPad is unimportant or making any claims about relative features. Tablets were tallied in a separate category simply so that readers get a better indication of what is going on. When done reading the entire report, the reader knows exactly what is going on with the sales of all of these items. If they had been lumped together, the study would be less informative.
post #67 of 68
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post #68 of 68
The iPad is not a "computer." except that it "computes" and does other "computer-like" things. If this strange not-a-computer gizmo has any effect on the sales of real computers remains to be seen, except that it already appears to be doing that.
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