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iPhone 4 and iOS vs. Android on Verizon - Page 3

post #81 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcdttu View Post

App Management - you're right, some apps in the Market are buggy, but so are apps in the App Store. Just because they can run in the background on an Android device doesn't mean that you should ding the OS for it. Additionally, why does iOS win for resource management? It barely manages resources, opting instead to kill virtually any ability to multitask except for a few sanctioned threads. I'd say Android wins for resource management simply because it can manage resources. Proof of this would be that the latest iOS implementation basically copied Android with its freeze states and threaded multitasking. I'm sure the next version will be even more Android-like.

I ding the OS for it because the buggy apps on Android are able to have a much bigger impact on performance and battery life due to the way the OS handles them (or fails to) depending on how the user exits (or thinks they did). In your hands or mine it is a minor problem, in my wifes or parents it can be a big deal.

FWIW, I think iOS has much better multitasking for a phone/pocket device because it allows what is useful and does kill what the user does not need. They could do even better with it. IMHO, when you hit the wake sleep button to turn off the screen, the phone should intelligently shut down processes that a non interacting user does not need, scale down the processor speed etc. That would go a long way to increasing battery life. Keep playing music and give me audio alerts etc. but no need to download new map data , the latest tweets, facebook updates etc. It can simply note that there is data to pull, and more efficiently pull it in one batch when the user turns the phone back on. Apple is part way there, Android could and should copy a lot of this from Apple and take it several steps further.

Android's management of memory and storage is barely out of the stone age IMHO. You can finally store apps beyond the base memory (that gave me nightmares of the old DOS 640k/himem BS!) but there are still issues. I do however expect that situation to improve fairly rapidly. On the flip side, Apple's refusal to let you access the file system without a jailbreak, and the inability to copy files on and off like a USB flash drive is pretty stupid and limiting. I am not sure they will ever give in.
post #82 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgregor View Post

Over the past few months, I've noticed this meme from some on this forum. I'll make it plain, stop trying to slander and show and prove "several factual errors". If you don't, I call FUD on you.

Read this thread there were a number of them pointed out by others. See posts 4 and 37 on the first page, 66 on page 2, as examples.
post #83 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archos View Post

Droid Incredible did not ship with 802.11n, and Verizon's specs indicate it does not have it. But HTC appears to have sent out an update that activated its n feature this summer.

So are you inferring that currently stock features are not part of the comparison if they didn't ship with the phone when it was first released? The Incredible has had 802.11n since it got Android 2.1 back in July.
post #84 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerMacBandit View Post

So are you inferring that currently stock features are not part of the comparison if they didn't ship with the phone when it was first released? The Incredible has had 802.11n since it got Android 2.2 back in July.

That can't be since the iPhone on Verizon is shown to have iOS 4.3 and airplay. But but but, there is no iPhone on Verizon yet, iOS 4.3 has not been released and certainly was not on the original iPhone 4's, and don't get me started on airplay.
post #85 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary54 View Post

only currently shipping models from their website. Next year, we'll have phones that wash dishes and walk the dog too.

I'm waiting for the model that will wash the dog.
post #86 of 102
Dan,

The AT&T SMS plan info is incorrect in your chart - they only offer 200 messages for $5 a month. See this page for details.

Also note that you can get unlimited messaging for all lines on a family plan for $30 a month. See this link for details.

-Scott
post #87 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davewrite View Post

ask the Verizon sales guy to explain the Droids

The possibly bored/frustrated/confused salesperson (one tech store expert recently swore to me there is no such thing as a bluetooth mouse) will start droning out (what he can remember of) the features

The customer gets totally confused "what's the difference with the Devouring vs. the Inscrutable again... ??"

get frustrated in like 6 minutes and say "yeah... just show me the iPhone".

My non Geek friends and relatives roll their eyes within two minutes when they ask me anything about computers "I don't really want to know that about the menu thing and so on.. I just want to read the email!"

That's why Apple always keeps it's line up of products simple and straightforward.

The clueless masses will determine which phone is successful, guided by the 6 o'clock news and MSN home page. This site (AI) is for tech savvy users who make up a very small fraction of the smartphone market. We will see how the Verizon marketing campaign goes very soon. Let the numbers speak for themselves after launch day.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #88 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

That's not true, many of them are paid to come here and post, although, I guess that makes them shills and not trolls.

I really don't know why they bother. Trying to convince an AI reader to jump ship to Android is like one used car salesman trying to hoodwink another. They are wasting their time. No one here is going to be persuaded by anonymous posers.

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post #89 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

That's not true, many of them are paid to come here and post, although, I guess that makes them shills and not trolls.

So if there are supposedly so many Android/Google/Microsoft (and I support HTC and Motorola as well) "paid shills" here, can I assume you're an Apple paid shill? I mean, you unceasingly defend Apple so how could I come to any other conclusion than that Apple is paying you?

Heaven forbid that anyone would have a balanced opinion and think that iOS devices and Android devices both have their strengths and weaknesses.

(Note to Google and/or Apple: If you'd like to pay me to evanglize your products, feel free to PM me. Thanks.)
post #90 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

No one here is going to be persuaded by anonymous posers.

Or even "anonymouse" posers.
post #91 of 102
Came for the lulz. It was delivered.


P.S. Tell me how to access the slider keyboard on the Droid X!
post #92 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by renfield33 View Post

original droid runs 2.2, supplied by an OTA update. it actually made things worse, but the chart is still dead wrong.

The chart you are referring to is the 2010 chart from 6 months ago. You should have taken the opportunity to actually read the article, rather than skimming for graphics you can flip out about, in which case you might have notice the 2011 charts for both VZ Android phones cheaper than the iPhone, and VZ Android models around the same price as the iPhone.

Interestingly, while you get the same $199 subsidized price, the iPhone is more expensive than any Android model, giving Apple the ability to offer a nicer phone. It's like its on sale more.

Conversely, cheap Android phones start out much lower, so you're getting less of a subsidy but taking a much lower quality phone.
post #93 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerMacBandit View Post

So are you inferring that currently stock features are not part of the comparison if they didn't ship with the phone when it was first released? The Incredible has had 802.11n since it got Android 2.1 back in July.

No, I was explaining why the chart might have gotten that wrong (since corrected).

I looked up the specs online and 802.11 details were also wrong in other places. So it's easy to get wrong because the horses crossed midstream. Something you shouldn't get too upset about.

Keep in mind that the Android fanboy's rage is all swirling about one minor detail being listed that overlooks an update (the chart specified no 802.11 n, but did credit the Incredible with 720p HD capture - even if its not as good as the iPhone 4) and one typo crediting the X having a sliding keyboard (which hasn't been noticed by AI yet).

Seriously, I've never seen a comparison chart that wasn't 80% wrong and grossly misleading. This is highly accurate and very helpful and relevant. There's no BS about software features that don't matter or lots of other things.

Android fans hate this sort of information because it shows that the fancy Android phones (like the Evo) are all paired with smaller carriers, while mainstream carriers are withholding features (like Verizon and the front facing camera, like it formerly did with WiFi before the iPhone) that affect Android.

Android's "open" does nothing to protect consumers. It is "open" to carrier handicapping, "open" to slow OS updates that may never arrive, "open" to junkware.

Apple's "closed" integration pushed (notably Verizon) carriers to adopt WiFi, to accept a good store for media and apps (instead of BREW subscriptions and $3 ringtones), to leave off junkware and affiliate ware and carrier differentiation junk, and to offer better data plans.

As DED wrote on his blog comments recently:

"Do the owners of cars made by Korean companies aping BMW designs spend much of their free time hating on BMW for offering the world an original design? No. They why are Android fans often such a**holes?"
post #94 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archos View Post

As DED wrote on his blog comments recently:

"Do the owners of cars made by Korean companies aping BMW designs spend much of their free time hating on BMW for offering the world an original design? No. They why are Android fans often such a**holes?"

Because Apple fans can be just as equal a**holes. Exhibit #1 is his generalized comment above. For some reason there seems to be this continual need to put down anything that isn't Apple.

I'm not saying Android's perfect. But while iOS can be considered at the top of the chart, it isn't without its own set of problems either.
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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post #95 of 102
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post #96 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by phazelag View Post

Good Idea but I am not an Insider! Some insiders do have specs..

once when i hurt my finger my father told me to "soak it in-cider"..... it really helped 8^)
post #97 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by FurbiesAndBeans View Post

Came for the lulz. It was delivered.


P.S. Tell me how to access the slider keyboard on the Droid X!

It doesnt have one?
post #98 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

24 gig card?

Have you checked the price on 32 gig cards lately, by the way?

Apple should be green in this comparison unless you're trying to bend the truth.

The 24 gig card was a mistake, I was thinking total storage, not card size, my bad.

The Droid X and some other droids on vzw come with preinstalled sd cards, in the case of the x there is 8gb built in and a 16 gb card included, thats 24gb of storage total. As to the 32 gig cards, the first site I checked was selling them for $65, not a bad price to have a shitload of music and movies and stuff with you wherever you go, considering a lot of the new android phones have HDMI out, it would be great for DVD rips, plug the phone into a hotel tv or whatever and vwala.

edit: Just thought I should state that teh site I checked was tiger direct, not some fly by night ebay store or whatever.

Note: that droid x with 8+16GB storage is $199, therefore 24GB storage on android is the same cost as 8GB on the iphone 4
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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post #99 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by phazelag View Post

Well I can see I have wasted my time. No one wants to have a reasonable and honest debate about the phones OS's. The Iphone is not shipping yet. You cant even preorder yet on Verizon, and many of those droids from CES will be out March 1st two weeks later with front facing cameras on AT@T and Verizon.

So for anyone really weighing the two phones like me this is a waste of time.

The Android site does the same thing. They say the droid screens are bigger but fail to mention the retina display and pixal count of the iphone.

These boards are just fan boys drawing lines in the sand. Its like republicans and democrats, they have to deceive or not tell the whole truth to make their side look better.

Doesn't anyone realize how satisfying it is to really make a fair comparison. Especially for people who have waited 4 years for an iPhone on Verizon and have another reasonable option now in Android, and if their willing to wait two more weeks, they may have something that suits there needs better. For me the retina display is important, but for others maybe not. Maybe a front facing camera is a waste on both phones? I dont need to video chat and likely would only to say I did it and forget about it.

So someone campare OS's! Apple has a robust and predictable OS. But Android has flash and widgets and my HTC Incredible has never had an issue. The notifications are awesome on android but are there ways to make the iphone do something like that? So far what I have seen have not been impressive.

How about objective conversation like that. Like adults, not loyal fanboys who want their toy to win.

I doubt that you will find most top Android sites dissing the iPhone in their editorial or comparisons. I think these days though you are more likely to find Android devices compared to other Android devices.

Personally, I have a Samsung Vibrant and IMO the SAMOLED screen runs circles around the iPhone's retina display. If possible, see the Avatar movie on the Vibrant side by side with the iPhone and decide for yourself. Not to mention that after using the 4" Vibrant display, the iPhone now looks cramped.

There was a time when as a media player, the iPhone was miles better than Android phones, but again with the Galaxy S line, the gallery, the better display along with DLNA makes the Galaxy S phones better than the iPhone in this respect as well.

At the moment, there are only two areas where the iPhone is better than the top end Android devices. It's much smoother and fluid because of the UI uses hardware acceleration of the GPU. Android still does not do that. Not sure if Gingerbread does that or not, it was rumored to be something that Google was working on.

The second big thing is that Apple controls the upgrades. If you are not sophisticated enough or don't have a friend who can help you, you could be stuck at the mercy of manufacturer and carrier for the OS upgrade.

Crapware is generally not an issue. Rooting most phones is very easy (in many cases a 1 click application). It doesn't prevent upgrades and is not as drastic as jailbreaking. You can then delete any app you want. Most reasonably proficient user should be able to root their phones.

But the same Samsung Galaxy S phones in the US are still stuck on 2.1. And in spite of being a superb phone, I'll never buy another Samsung phone again because of their attitude. Note that I'm running 2.2 and parts of 2.3 because I'm running a custom ROM. It was extremely trivial to do, but it's not something I'd recommend my wife or sister do. They both own Vibrants as well.
post #100 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archos View Post

CES introduces tons of products, many of which never materialize or show up months later in a far less exciting form, after competitors have delivered a full real cycle of products.

Palm Folio?
Palm Pre?
Windows Phone 7?
HP Windows Slate PC?
Lots of PlaysForSure stuff?
Google Nexus One (nearly CES)

So yes, vaporware. Wait till it arrives. The iPhone 4 is not an unknown product touting features that might not work well in practice. Apple doesn't have a history of launching things that are nothing near what it originally hyped. The company typically announces a product and has it shipping immediately or within a couple months, and it gets more features revealed at launch, not less.

And come on, Android fans talk about the next release of the OS like it's already here, while waiting for the release from 6 months ago to make it to their phone.

I personally don't think it's a great feature to have your phone go obsolete every quarter, and then never get updated. I expect a phone to last me a year, at least. Remember when everyone bawled about annual new iPods? and how we had to get a new iPhone every year? This idea that everyone is going to repurchase a new Android phone every 3 months just because there's a new crop of them isn't sustainable. Nobody but fanboys is going to do that. Most people will have an Android phone from a year ago running software that's just as old.

Google still says only half of the Android users actively hitting Android Market are running 2.2 from last summer. The rest are on even older versions (so of which are still being sold!)

I'm also not convinced that "4G" LTE service in a few markets at unknown cost to battery life and at significantly higher fees is really going to be a killer feature that sucks people toward more expensive Android phones. Just because the iPhone created enormous draw for more expensive smartphone contracts on EDGE and later 3G service (while also providing WiFi service for really fast data), doesn't mean that knockoff phones that can't run popular apps will draw people to moderately faster data service that's even more expensive (and not faster than WiFi).

Do you really think this is going to keep going until we have Android 3.5 paired with 5G LTE+ and 6" screens selling $500 monthly data contracts that deliver 50Mbps service? Because things don't all grow linearly like that. At some point, people are going to resist paying more for slightly faster data plans when nothing else is really better. The iPhone added a lot of value to having a data plan. Past 10Mbps, there's not going to be the exact same progression of cost/benefit to simply jumping the Mbps and data contract prices. Most people don't even have 10Mbps service to their homes in the US. 2Mbps broadband is considered adequate in this country!

Android, like Windows, delivers basic functionality. Apple delivers an experience. Which is why the spec wars are dying and people are buying more Macs rather than just being pushed toward the biggest MHz and MB.

I don't disagree at all with what you say about OS upgrades. I think it's a ridiculous situation that new phones arrive with two versions previous Android phones and then don't upgrade them quickly. I put the blame squarely on Google for allowing this to happen and they had better start figuring out how to release their own releases with updated drivers for that release.

However, I disagree totally that Apple sells an experience while Android phones are merely superior in hardware. Android phones are an exhilarating user experience. One that I prefer to iPhone UX now. And no doubt you and many others prefer the iPhone UX. But don't kid yourself that Android doesn't have a great UX (albeit different from the iPhone).
post #101 of 102
battle of the giant in the field of smart phones. Who will win?
post #102 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by bstring View Post

In 2011, I predict Verizon will sell 40% iphone vs 60% Android devices, absolute best case for Apple. As for ATT, 35/65 advantage to iphone. In fact, ATT's monthly sales ratio at the end of the year will start to balance out while Verizon will always be Android dominated. Apple may appear to be catching up during the first month of each iphone release, but will be overpowered the rest of the year. Anyone who thinks Verizon's apple/android ratio is going to match ATT's current ratio would be naive.

Riight...you'll have to provide a citation that the iPhone is only 35% of AT&T smartphone sales. Seems a bit low to get to US market share for the iPhone unless AT&T is selling a lot more smartphones than Verizon which I doubt.

Quote:
Disclaimer: Long time Apple customer and ipod touch owner, but opted out of the ios ecosystem. Resistance began with DRM in itunes, proprietary cables/interfaces, locked down OS, and draconian app store.

Ah...stuff that only free software geeks really care about. For you, Android is perfect.
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