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LG: WP7 falls short as carriers tire of "too much Android"

post #1 of 91
Thread Starter 
LG reports disappointment with sales of Microsoft's Windows Phone 7 while its carriers complain of "too much Android" as the third largest mobile maker seeks bolster smartphone sales even as it loses overall mobile market share.

WP7 launch disappointing, boring for users

In an interview with Pocket-lint, LG, marketing strategy and planning team director James Choi said of Microsoft's Windows Phone 7, "from an industry perspective we had a high expectation, but from a consumer point of view the visibility is less than we expected."

Choi added, "LG has been closely collaborating with Microsoft from the beginning. What we feel is that it is absolutely perfect for a huge segment out there. What we feel is that some people believe that some operating systems, mainly Google, are extremely complicated for them. But Windows Phone 7 is very intuitive and easy to use.

"One of the problems," the report noted, "is that some believe that the OS is so easy to use that its a bit boring."

Choi himself said that, "for tech guys like us it might be a little bit boring after a week or two, but there are certain segments that it really appeals to. We strongly feel that it has a strong potential even though the first push wasnt what everyone expected.

Microsoft has been cagey in talking about the launch of Windows Phone 7, even as its own developers "suggest that you think of Windows Phone 7 development as a hobby or a learning experience."

Microsoft itself has described the Windows Phone 7 launch as "inline with our expectations," even while describing shipments that could only barely fill out global channel inventory.

LG still strong on Microsoft

LG appears to be the first licensee to openly call Windows Phone 7 a serious disappointment, but it isn't ready to abandon Microsoft yet because it has few alternatives, lacking even its own recognizable mobile platform in contrast to Samsung's Bada, RIM's BlackBerry, or HP's Palm/webOS.

The phone maker was led down a rabbit hole in 2009 with Windows Mobile 6.5, a year when LG took over the lead role in promoting Windows Mobile in what the Washington Post described at the time "an enhanced partnership" with Microsoft.

"Microsoft said it will also be working closer with LG, a company it had agreed to a partnership with in advance. LG is committing to developing 50 new Windows Mobile phones by the end of 2012 and both companies, Microsoft and LG, are committing to increasing their investment in Windows Mobile by five-fold," the report said at the time.

After Windows Mobile continued to collapse in 2009 and was replaced with Windows Phone 7 in late 2010, LG continued to support the new platform as a top licensee, even as its chief executive Nam Yong stepped down due to big losses; LG had erased 30 percent of its mobile share over the previous three years.

LG not sold on Android, expects WP7 to serve low end

LG can't give up on Microsoft because that would limit it in smartphones to solely being an Android licensee, which LG does not want to become.

From a vendor perspective having that balance [of smartphone platforms] is critical," Choi said. "Being dependent on one OS is not beneficial for us. Thats the same with not just the manufacturers, but the operators as well.

"There is a need and demand from the operators saying there is too much Android in the portfolio. In that sense LG always tries to balance our portfolio, and thats not just in sense of hardware but OSes as well.

Choi said that "there is a lot of skepticism at the moment, but once Windows Phone 7 handsets that are mid-tier to low tier start appearing the market share will grow. Right now its only exclusively present in a high tier, because of its hardware requirements, and thats limiting growth."

LG struggles to copy Apple

In early 2007, LG was highlighting its Adobe Flash lite-based Prada phone, a model it later claimed Apple had copied in its design of the original iPhone, even as it had long aped Apple's iPod design in its popular Verizon Chocolate feature phone.

In 2009, LG released the LG-GM730, a Windows Mobile 6.5 bearing a striking resemblance to Apple's original iPhone. This year, the company is planning to release the Android-based Optimus X2, its first high end smartphone. It bears a striking resemblance to last year's iPhone 4.
post #2 of 91
iPhone 4 mid 2009? Why did I buy this damn 3GS at that time then? They must have hid the 4's!

Fix the graphic at the end of the post.
post #3 of 91
No surprises here really. Windows7 literally was "doomed" to begin with. Ballmer is trying to start the race literally years after Apple kickstarted it back in 2007. Their marketing ads are a disappointment to say the least.

The android system is a perfect example of what happens where there are too many players in a given team. Everyone wants a shot, but no one gets any serious time on the field. The market is literally dumping so many Android phones out there that it is in essence confusing Joe-consumer with an onslaught of choice, different configurations, and all of it is a mess. Factor in the cheap-plastic, flimsy construction and it's back to the same self-destructive cycle.

And then there's the iPhone. One phone, looking really nice by itself. Clean, simple, built like a tank, and just waiting for you.

No contest. Let the rest of the folks battle for the bottom of the barrel. It's very sad actually.
post #4 of 91
The Android market is indeed a mess because there are two many similar phones to chose from. And, LG planned to contribute to the same mess by producing some 50 new, and presumably distinct, Windows 7 phone models between from 2009/10 thru 2012.

They define consumer confusion.
post #5 of 91
I always thought that Balmer released Windows Phone 7 because the board of directors told him to, or quit.
post #6 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by macaholic_1948 View Post

The Android market is indeed a mess because there are two many similar phones to chose from. And, LG planned to contribute to the same mess by producing some 50 new, and presumably distinct, Windows 7 phone models between from 2009/10 thru 2012.

They define consumer confusion.

The interesting thing that came from the article is that according to LG the carriers have taken note of how similar many of the android devices are and are not keen on it. This is understandable, they want to offer their customers genuine choice. This has the potential to limit one of the biggest advantages android has ... marketing ... it has lots of manufacturers pushing it, whereas apple only has one.
post #7 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

No surprises here really. Windows7 literally was "doomed" to begin with. Ballmer is trying to start the race literally years after Apple kickstarted it back in 2007. Their marketing ads are a disappointment to say the least.

The android system is a perfect example of what happens where there are too many players in a given team. Everyone wants a shot, but no one gets any serious time on the field. The market is literally dumping so many Android phones out there that it is in essence confusing Joe-consumer with an onslaught of choice, different configurations, and all of it is a mess. Factor in the cheap-plastic, flimsy construction and it's back to the same self-destructive cycle.

And then there's the iPhone. One phone, looking really nice by itself. Clean, simple, built like a tank, and just waiting for you.

No contest. Let the rest of the folks battle for the bottom of the barrel. It's very sad actually.

I think this article and the source are being too harsh on WP7. Remember that WM6 held onto about 10% of the smartphone market in 2010 and even though it did drop they never had that much to begin with and WP7 was definitely known. I think WP7 is pretty damn good for MS software and Id choose it over Android if I couldnt use an iPhone. I think we need to wait and see how the next couple quarters are before we see what will happen to WP7 in the market. They are certainly better off than RiM right now with an antiquated BB OS and their PlayBook OS which doesnt seem to be viable for a smartphone for some time to come.
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post #8 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevt View Post

The interesting thing that came from the article is that according to LG the carriers have taken note of how similar many of the android devices are and are not keen on it. This is understandable, they want to offer their customers genuine choice. This has the potential to limit one of the biggest advantages android has ... marketing ... it has lots of manufacturers pushing it, whereas apple only has one.

Exactly. Producing 50 models in 2-3 years exacerbates the problem.

Instead, producing 8-10 new models over the same period of time allows a manufacturer to produce new models that are clearly differentiated. Seems to me they complain about the problem yet continue to repeat the same steps that led to the problem.

Defined as insanity.
post #9 of 91
The problem anyone making a smartphone has is that the iPhone was awesome and still is. Between the 3G and 4 very little has actualy changed because there isn't really much they can or need to change. Which means there isn't anything big someone can release to beat Apple.

I have switched to wp7 but when I did I didn't get the feeling that it was so much better, more that it was the same experiance. However after using it for over a month and then using an iPhone again the difference was huge. The small screen of the iPhone just looked cramped, made even worse by space being taken up by back buttons, the icons just look a mess where nothing gets categorised in any way. Even when you make a folder for games you can't fit them all in there. If you want to find anything out like your next meetings you have to open the app rather than just looking at the lock screen or tile.

In many ways I've found MS have made there os better with lots of subtle features, but you can't stick them on an advert. So its probably going to be a while before its a success. However just remember people hated vista but love windows 7, but there's not that much difference between them. So the next version could do a lot better.
post #10 of 91
I'm puzzled why MS don't put WP7 on their tablets - surely its smarter than trying to bolt on Windows?
post #11 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by StephenHoward View Post

I'm puzzled why MS don't put WP7 on their tablets - surely its smarter than trying to bolt on Windows?

Answering myself: I suppose it might be because MS want their tablets to have a large portfolio of software available at launch, and that means the only OS choice for them is Windows. If that's right then we can expect WP7 tablets once WP7 apps are developed.
post #12 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by StephenHoward View Post

Answering myself: I suppose it might be because MS want their tablets to have a large portfolio of software available at launch, and that means the only OS choice for them is Windows. If that's right then we can expect WP7 tablets once WP7 apps are developed.

Hopefully MS is following Apple, RiM and Google by not releasing a mobile OS for tablets that aren't designed for the device's main I/O.
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post #13 of 91
I never thought I'd say this, but I actually hope Microsoft can get back into the smartphone race. With as much money and engineering talent as they have at Microsoft, I truly hope they get their act together and become competitive, because the duopoly of iOS and Android is starting to feel a bit stifling. We need more competition, if for no reason other than to break Google's hold on all these manufacturers.

It's interesting looking at the last 3 years of evolution in the mobile space. Outside of RIM (and to an extent, HP), everyone has shifted to Android for the their flagship products. No doubt this has been in response to Apple's success with the iPhone. And in their desperation, Motorola, HTC, Samsung, et al, turned to Google, which held Android as a free and competitive alternative to Apple.

As these companies become more and more dependent on Google, they run the risk of having nothing left to differentiate themselves from each other other than through custom skins (blegh!) or hardware features. And from what I hear, Google is looking to Android 3.0 to begin reigning in all those custom skins in order to promote a more uniform, orderly, stock Android UI. Slowly but surely, Android is looking more and more like the Windows of the mobile world, and I'm not entirely convinced that that is a good thing for the mobile space, and certainly not a good thing for the manufacturers. Apple's ownership of the entire iEcosystem from software to hardware means they are can innovate when they want/need to and are never tied to another company's software release schedule (looking at you Galaxy Tab). Opening up to additional wireless carriers also means they are less and less tied to the physical network as well. Eliminating outside dependencies is a good thing.

I feel like so many manufacturers are throwing themselves into the fire without even realizing it.
post #14 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

No surprises here really. Windows7 literally was "doomed" to begin with. Ballmer is trying to start the race literally years after Apple kickstarted it back in 2007. Their marketing ads are a disappointment to say the least.

The android system is a perfect example of what happens where there are too many players in a given team. Everyone wants a shot, but no one gets any serious time on the field. The market is literally dumping so many Android phones out there that it is in essence confusing Joe-consumer with an onslaught of choice, different configurations, and all of it is a mess. Factor in the cheap-plastic, flimsy construction and it's back to the same self-destructive cycle.

And then there's the iPhone. One phone, looking really nice by itself. Clean, simple, built like a tank, and just waiting for you.

No contest. Let the rest of the folks battle for the bottom of the barrel. It's very sad actually.

WOW.....POETIC
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post #15 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

No contest. Let the rest of the folks battle for the bottom of the barrel. It's very sad actually.

Truest, and most telling comment of the day.
post #16 of 91
Could DED be banned from writing for AppleInsider? Please. He's a disgrace to this website with his immature fanboy-ness. Apple may make great products, but they are not the center of the universe no matter how much the author wants us to believe. Get over it.
post #17 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevt View Post

The interesting thing that came from the article is that according to LG the carriers have taken note of how similar many of the android devices are and are not keen on it. This is understandable, they want to offer their customers genuine choice. This has the potential to limit one of the biggest advantages android has ... marketing ... it has lots of manufacturers pushing it, whereas apple only has one.

Who is 'they'? And how do you conclude 'they' want offer 'genuine choice' rather than being clueless, randomly throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks?

I think it's the latter.
post #18 of 91
When are they getting rid of Ballmer already?? Isn't it about time?
post #19 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by HahaHaha321 View Post

Could DED be banned from writing for AppleInsider? Please. He's a disgrace to this website with his immature fanboy-ness. Apple may make great products, but they are not the center of the universe no matter how much the author wants us to believe. Get over it.

DED is the only reason I visit AI
post #20 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

In 2009, LG released the LG-GM730, a Windows Mobile 6.5 bearing a striking resemblance to Apple's original iPhone. This year, the company is planning to release the Android-based Optimus X2, its first high end smartphone. It bears a striking resemblance to last year's iPhone 4.

This is the type of crap that Daniel likes to write, if you are making a candy bar touch screen phone there is a very limited number of ways they can look
post #21 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by HahaHaha321 View Post

Could DED be banned from writing for AppleInsider? Please. He's a disgrace to this website with his immature fanboy-ness. Apple may make great products, but they are not the center of the universe no matter how much the author wants us to believe. Get over it.

I could not agree more. He is trashing this site with his super biased garbage. I come to this site less and less, and I know exactly when he writes something just from the title.
post #22 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

This is the type of crap that Daniel likes to write, if you are making a candy bar touch screen phone there is a very limited number of ways they can look

Or, he's right.
post #23 of 91
LG should offer to make iPhones for Apple. It must be frustrating for them only making crap phones. They make many other products that are quite good.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #24 of 91
The WP7 launch sales are disappointing for Microsoft (I've seen stats that WP7 web presence is less than one half of one percent of mobile traffic) but not unexpected, and is a reflection of mind share, the immaturity of the platform and general distrust (or apathy) of users toward Microsoft in the mobile space rather than the quality of the OS itself.

I'm actually a prime candidate for a WP7 as I fit into the age group, business and social lifestyle that WP7 targets. I was also incredibly impressed with the phone and have no doubt that Microsoft have created a class leading mobile paradigm and the best base for a mobile phone on the market (bar none).

And yet, myself and my family are decked out with iPhones/iPads. Without a full mobile strategy from Microsoft (i.e. something to replace the iPad) and a proven commitment to updating WP7 to fill in the feature gaps as well as a commitment to supporting the platform for years to come I find Apple is still the best all round mobile solution.
post #25 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

This is the type of crap that Daniel likes to write, if you are making a candy bar touch screen phone there is a very limited number of ways they can look

Mmmmmm... I can imagine had Apple's team not designed the iPhone, LG et al would have come up with something just like it, after all who needs Jonnathan Ives eh?
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #26 of 91
iPhone 4 was revealed by Apple in June 2010 and went on sale six weeks later. Even Gizmodo didn't manage to steal one until April 2010.

Why does your graphic indicate a release a year earlier?
post #27 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

I'm actually a prime candidate for a WP7 as I fit into the age group, business and social lifestyle that WP7 targets. I was also incredibly impressed with the phone and have no doubt that Microsoft have created a class leading mobile paradigm and the best base for a mobile phone on the market (bar none).

What does this mean?
post #28 of 91
I think that ui of wp7 is too advanced for low end and too boring for high end.

At the high end it is not app centric and wants you to just look at what it's tiles offer you, without even launch an app. this leaves little incentive to develop anything but games.

At the low end (I would assume technologically challenged, not financially challenged) the ui flips, spins and transitions too much to be called easy. I would rather explain my grandma how to click a phone button on android or iOS then have her scroll through tiles and wait for transitions on wp7.

In the end the platform is intended for same people as kin- early to mid teens where you care about pretty colors, transitions and Facebook pictures then apps and content.
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post #29 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

The problem anyone making a smartphone has is that the iPhone was awesome and still is. Between the 3G and 4 very little has actualy changed because there isn't really much they can or need to change. Which means there isn't anything big someone can release to beat Apple.

Not that I'd expect much more from people posting at "Apple Insider" but this kind of thinking is what always turned me off from Apple. There's so much arrogance that the iPhone is this perfect phone that nobody, not even God himself, could do better.

Truth is there is a lot more to do and others are starting to beat Apple to the punch. Apple was not the first with a front facing camera...they followed. Other phones on other carriers do not drop calls...the iPhone does (and please don't argue otherwise because you know it does). iOS still has a lot to be desired on its notification system. Apple doesn't support the real time multitasking things like widgets. This one usually sparks an immediate "it doesn't need them" but Android's implementation of it certainly makes iOS look like yesterday's tech. Today iOS is nothing more than an application launcher. Very limited multitasking, etc.

Now I'm not saying iOS is a bad OS. But I do think there will always be room for improvement and the competition is showing how that can be done (finally!!) which is good for all. NFC is going to be the next big thing for smart phones as they replace your wallet. The competition already has phones out with it as this starts to ramp up. iPhone does not have it.

The argument of too many Android phones is not valid either. Are there too many variations of PCs? Does having too many models to choose from at best buy confuse the public? No. And neither does having a choice of what you want in a phone either. Apple fans would have you believe that if there is more than one model to choose from that the public is so stupid they get confused. Last I checked, most people do their homework and are quite capable of picking out a smart phone. Just that more pick Android now. I know its a hard concept for the Apple camp to ingest because there's only been one choice offered from Apple, but choice rocks. Not everyone follows the same beat. Not everyone is like Apple's 1984 commercial listening to one person's word (in this case, that is now Steve Job's himself).

Choice is good. Competition is good. I only wish Apple fans would be able to see that.
post #30 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by HahaHaha321 View Post

Could DED be banned from writing for AppleInsider? Please. He's a disgrace to this website with his immature fanboy-ness. Apple may make great products, but they are not the center of the universe no matter how much the author wants us to believe. Get over it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

I could not agree more. He is trashing this site with his super biased garbage. I come to this site less and less, and I know exactly when he writes something just from the title.

Looks like DED hit some very raw nerves. Keep up the good work and pay no attention to the transparently dishonest astroturfers.

Oh, and bettie, based on your posting rate, you come here more and more, mostly just to complain about articles that don't cast your employer's products in a favorable light. You aren't fooling anyone.

The shills and astroturfers around here are getting worse than the trolls.
post #31 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by MicroNix View Post

Not that I'd expect much more from people posting at "Apple Insider" but this kind of thinking is what always turned me off from Apple. There's so much arrogance that the iPhone is this perfect phone that nobody, not even God himself, could do better.

Truth is there is a lot more to do and others are starting to beat Apple to the punch. Apple was not the first with a front facing camera...they followed. ...

The same old tired arguments of, "someone else had feature x." Sure, but it didn't work well, no one used it, and Apple got it right. Yeah, same answer to each old tired argument because it's true, which is why the iPhone is the best selling phone and will only sell even better in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MicroNix View Post

Now I'm not saying iOS is a bad OS. But I do think there will always be room for improvement and the competition is showing how that can be done (finally!!) which is good for all. ....

No one thinks there isn't room for improvement, but I don't think the competition is showing the way, nor will Apple be following them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MicroNix View Post

The argument of too many Android phones is not valid either. Are there too many variations of PCs? Does having too many models to choose from at best buy confuse the public? No. ...

Choice is good. Competition is good. I only wish Apple fans would be able to see that.

That last sentence was pretty funny. Do you do stand-up?

To correctly answer your questions, in order:

* Yes
* Yes

And the same issue does apply to phones. Obviously, you haven't done your research on the psychology of choice.
post #32 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by HahaHaha321 View Post

Could DED be banned from writing for AppleInsider? Please. He's a disgrace to this website with his immature fanboy-ness. Apple may make great products, but they are not the center of the universe no matter how much the author wants us to believe. Get over it.

Shh!! He can hear you...you'll hurt his feelings

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #33 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

The same old tired arguments of, "someone else had feature x." Sure, but it didn't work well, no one used it, and Apple got it right. Yeah, same answer to each old tired argument because it's true, which is why the iPhone is the best selling phone and will only sell even better in the future.


How is it possible that Apple got the front facing camera right? What is there exactly to get right? It's a CAMERA. It doesn't to anything else that the others didn't. Except for a glorified name.

I tell you, the fanboys on this website...
post #34 of 91
I think of WP7 as Android redone with a better basic internal design, and no app fragmentation. I could see it replacing Android years from now as the dominant 2nd tier phone, with Apple still being on top. Android will collapse in the long run because, though geeks love it, mom & pop find it hard to use and app fragmentation is a terminal illness to a platform.

Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

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Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

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post #35 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by HahaHaha321 View Post

How is it possible that Apple got the front facing camera right? What is there exactly to get right? It's a CAMERA. It doesn't to anything else that the others didn't. Except for a glorified name.

I tell you, the fanboys on this website...

Thats the difference between you and other mypoic people like you. You think adding the HW and some lose definition software to tie into that HW is all thats needed. You never take into account usability, and by extension the enjoyment in using that feature.
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post #36 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

I think of WP7 as Android redone with a better basic internal design, and no app fragmentation. I could see it replacing Android years from now as the dominant 2nd tier phone, with Apple still being on top. Android will collapse in the long run because, though geeks love it, mom & pop find it hard to use and app fragmentation is a terminal illness to a platform.

Thats how I think itll mostly likely fall at this point. iOS-based phones at the top taking the largest percentage of profits. I see Apple increasing their profit in the handset market but after a few years having that percentage being chipped at even though their profit still increasing.

Below that I see the middle-tier devices. At this point I see WP7 likely taking that segment at the expense of Android, BB OS and WeBOS. RiM and HP havent really shown they can increase their market share so there future at this point is questionable. Hopefully RiM and HP can figure it out before its too late.

At the bottom I see Android taking over the largest segment of the market, even outstripping Symbians OS marketshare. Eventually even cheap phones will have Android and will be feature phones that will have more features and capabilities than smartphones of yore.
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post #37 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by HahaHaha321 View Post

Could DED be banned from writing for AppleInsider? Please. He's a disgrace to this website with his immature fanboy-ness. Apple may make great products, but they are not the center of the universe no matter how much the author wants us to believe. Get over it.

DED is far from unbiased but I really appreciate the depth of his treatments. I can understand being rubbed the wrong way by his tone, but at the end ofthe day I always find some things of interest in his analysis and synthesis.
post #38 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Or, he's right.

... though he obviously isn't.
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #39 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

LG should offer to make iPhones for Apple. It must be frustrating for them only making crap phones. They make many other products that are quite good.

Lawn mowers, alarm clocks, cheap deck furniture, venetian blinds, dog collars, milkshake machines, transmissions for the chevy Volt, t-shirts, steam locomotives for Pakistan, cigarette lighters, manual snow shovels; truly Lotsa Garbage, Low Grade stuff, hardly "Life's Good."

Yes, I know that LG is an Apple supplier but Apple has placed strict QC on those components.
post #40 of 91
Good to see that the ultimate Wanker daharder is back !
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